Soy lecithin as a potentiator.

[grokit]

Okay you don't dislike them, you just said that they're "spreading lies":

All this hate for soy comes from the hate of gm foods like soy, and highly proecced substances that are isolated from the beans, but, the people who are spreading these lies won't separate the three forms, and lump all soy in the same category.

The japanese, and asians in general, have much higher rates of cancer of the esophagus, stomach, pancreas, and liver. Asians throughout the world also have high rates of thyroid cancer.

 

[luchiano]

The japanese, and asians in general, have much higher rates of cancer of the esophagus, stomach, pancreas, and liver. Asians throughout the world also have high rates of thyroid cancer.

@grokit that's from all the seafood, and smoking. Once you look at each thing in its proper perspective, they are not worse then everyone else. Also notice fermenting the food being a cause of gastric cancer which is why I'm not crazy about eating fermented foods.

This site helps break it down
http://www.innovationmagazine.com/innovation/volumes/v10n3/coverstory1.shtml

Colorectal Cancer

There is geographical variation in the incidence of colorectal cancer in Asia. This can be attributed to differences in diet, particularly with the consumption of red and processed meat, fibre and alcohol, as well as bodyweight and physical activity. Incidence rates of colorectal cancer are increasing in countries where rates were previously low, such as Japan, as diets become Westernised (5).

Gastric cancer
In 2008, more than 60 per cent of cases worldwide occurred in East Asia. Japan has a high gastric cancer rate, with Korea following close behind. The Japanese diet is characteristically high in salted foods, nitrates and pickling preservatives. Fermentation and the pickling process are believed to interact, playing a significant role in lower vitamin C rates linked to poor immunity and higher cancer incidence. In a population-based prospective study (7) done in Japan, consumption of highly salted food such as salted fish roe and salted fish preserves were strongly associated with an increased risk of gastric cancer. Helicobacter pylori infection, smoking and low consumption of fruit and vegetable are other factors associated with the risk of gastric cancer.

 

[grokit]

Do the koreans have this problem? Perhaps the japanese need to eat more kimchee...

As you said earlier, we will have to agree to disagree. There is enough dis/information out there to support both sides of this discussion, so it may never end and I'm sure the community is growing tired of this.

 

[luchiano]

Yeah, this article deals with the rise in thyroid cancer

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4129191/
Unfounded Reports on Thyroid Cancer

Many studies have suggested the major contribution of genetic factors to the pathogenesis of thyroid cancer, and that the population living in East Asia including Korea is genetically susceptible to thyroid cancer. Extremely high iodine intake, increased exposure to medical radiation, and rising rates of obesity are also potential candidates to explain this phenomenon.

 

[grokit]

Okay we'll keep going, this address the iodine intake which is still related to soy:

Phytoestrogens disrupt thyroid function. Goitrogen definition: A substance or product that may cause thyroid enlargement and formation of a goiter, such as soy or millet.

Theodore Kay of the Kyoto University Faculty of Medicine noted in 1988 that 'thyroid enlargement in rats and humans, especially children and women, fed with soybeans has been known for half a century'.

In fact, thyroid problems associated with soy were also well known to bird-breeders.

Well known, but that fact seemed to escape manufacturers of the first commercially available soy formulas. Those formulas were known to cause in goitre in infants and one can only wonder how many other infants were left hypothyroid or suffering from permanent thyroid damage by soy formulas.

The iodine levels in soy formulas were increased and instances of goitre in infants fed these products ceased. This may be because there was no attempt to isolate or remove the goitrogenic properties from soy formulas. This is of grave concern because, although elevated iodine levels would have helped to nullify the effects of the goitrogens, the goitrogens would still have been actively suppressing thyroid function in infants. Hence millions of babies (particularly in the United States where soy formula feeding is most common) have needlessly been exposed to goitrogenic agents, increasing the risk of abnormal thyroid function and thyroid disease later in life.

So just what are these goitrogenic agents? In 1997 research from the FDA's National Center for Toxicological Research (NCTR) showed that the darling of the soy industry, the isoflavone genistein, was a potent inhibitor of Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO); in fact genistein is a more powerful inhibitor of TPO than common anti-thyroid drugs! If genistein could inhibit TPO in vitro, it follows that it could result in an elevation of Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH), and a subsequent decrease in thyroxine (T3) in vitro; in other words consumption of the soy isoflavone genistein might result in hypothyroidism and goitre.

Recent research leaves little doubt that dietary isoflavones in soy have a profound effect on thyroid function in humans. A study by Japanese researchers concluded that intake of soy by healthy adults for a long duration caused enlargement of the thyroid and suppressed thyroid function. These researchers studied the effects of feeding 30 g of soybeans per day on thyroid function and found that after one month there was a significant increase in thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) levels in a group of 20 adults (group I) but no change in thyroxine levels.
http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/harris_soy_products.htm


Here is a very well-worded (non-mercola) summary of my overall concerns about soy:
http://www.pkdiet.com/pages/recipes/recipeiweb/recipe/Soy_AVOID.html

 

[luchiano]

@grokit i guess you don't eat broccoli, strawberries, kale, peanuts, because they contain goitrogens. Read the article on it.

http://www.womentowomen.com/thyroid-health/goitrogens-and-thyroid-health-the-good-news/

Soy isoflavones. Soy is a very healthy food that has been demonized by various groups, something we discuss in our article on the soy controversy. One legitimate concern these groups raise is the fact that soy does contain goitrogenic compounds, specifically the soy isoflavone genistein. This compound, just like thyroid hormones, accepts iodine molecules from the thyroid peroxidase (TPO), which again, is the enzyme that also transfers iodine to the thyroid hormones. Some researchers have suggested that genistein and similar isoflavones may compete with thyroid hormones for iodine or alternatively may “block” the action of TPO, but recent studies indicate that as long as an individual has
sufficient iodine in the diet, soy isoflavones do not adversely impact thyroid function. “If one begins with poor iodine nutrition, removing goitrogens from one’s diet will not restore iodine nutrition.”

Again, you have to cook the beans properly. Boiling until tender is a sign that the beans are good to eat and won't cause health problems. Again any bean that isn't cooked thoroughly will give you problems. I speak from experience. If they are crunchy, and you eat too many of them prepare to feel fucked up. Beans are supposed to be soft, and creamy textured when done.

BTW, geinstein has been shown to help cut cancer and deal with chemotherapy issues.

 

[grokit]

Last word!

 

[luchiano]

My last post on this I promise

http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/soy_wth

Asian Intakes

Japan and China have lower rates of heart disease and many cancers than do Westerners. People have suggested this could be due to the soy in their diet. In response, soy opponents have often argued that the traditional Asian intake of soy is much lower than is commonly thought. Typical Asian intakes of soy vary among countries and areas. In Japan and Shanghai, China, average intakes are about 1.5 servings per day, but many people consume an average of two or more servings per day. About half the soy eaten in Asia is not fermented

Soy Servings

In the research discussed here, soy is typically described in grams of protein or milligrams of isoflavones. Less frequently, soy is described in grams of total soy foods. To make things more complicated, sometimes the participants in research are given only soy protein concentrate (about 65% protein), the isolated soy protein (about 90% protein), and sometimes only isolated isoflavones.

A rough guide is that one serving of soy equals 1 cup of soymilk, or 1/2 cup of tofu, tempeh, soybeans, or soy meats. This is the rough equivalent of about 8 to 10 grams of soy protein and 25 mg of isoflavones. The more processed soy meats tend to have more protein (but fewer isoflavones per gram of protein).

Soy Foods

Some people who write about soy suggest that fermented soy foods are the most healthy, and that isolated soy proteins are the most unhealthy. Fermented soy foods are tempeh, miso, and natto. As will be discussed below, for the most part, the evidence does not suggest that fermented soy foods are healthier than traditional non-fermented soy foods (such as tofu and soymilk). And much of the research on soy showing benefits has been performed on isolated soy protein.

In the United States, whole soybeans are usually eaten in the form of edamame, tempeh, or soy nuts. Many, but not all, soy meats, as well as texturized soy protein, are made from soy protein concentrate or isolated soy protein. Turtle Island, the makers of Tofurky, use pressed tofu to create their soy meats.

Prostate Cancer

A 2009 meta-analysis on soy and prostate cancer found that soy, in the highest versus lowest intake categories, was associated with a statistically significant, 26% reduction in prostate cancer risk (0.74, 0.63-0.89) (1). When separately analyzed, studies on non-fermented soy foods yielded a reduced risk of 30% (0.70, 0.56-0.88), and fermented soy foods were not associated with a decreased (or increased) risk of prostate cancer. It should be noted that the highest intake categories in these studies tended to be low, with most being less than one serving per day.


This is my last post, I promise:

http://www.med.nyu.edu/content?ChunkIID=21734

Double-blind, placebo-controlled studies have found that genistein may be helpful for preventing heart disease20,21,54 and preventing or treating osteoporosis . 5-10,49 Genistein may additionally improve blood sugar control in people with pre- diabetes . 56 Weaker evidence suggests potential benefits in cancer prevention , 10-12,14-16cancer treatment , 13 and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS). 22

 

[grokit]

I never promised anything.

Soy is not the health food that you might think it is.

Many who have liver cysts have noticed that soy causes liver cysts to grow. Soy is generally thought to be a good substitute when used to replace red meat in the diet; however it does increase liver cyst growth. This could be in part from the genetic manipulation started by Monsanto so young soy plants can withstand a bombardment of Monsanto weed killer known as roundup. The genetically modified soy has a way of creeping into the food chain with this attached weed killer (a known xenoestrogen).

The European Union asked the United States to at least separate the two soy plants, but the USA refused. In New Zealand soy is banned from all baby foods, this includes lecithin contained in many baked goods, crackers, and cookies. Young infants were becoming sterile and little girl babies were getting breasts and menses. Male babies were experiencing an increase in sterility. The doctors attributed this to soy milk and soy base products in baby foods. New Zealanders have banned it from infant food sources.

From tofu and tacos to baby formula and burgers, soy products have swept the nation as a healthy source of protein, with a reputation for being all natural and good for you. New studies have however raised questions over whether the ingredients in soy might increase the risk of breast cancer in some women, affect brain function in men and lead to hidden developmental abnormalities in infants.

The core of their concerns rests with the chemical makeup of soy: in addition to all the nutrients and protein, soy contains a natural chemical that mimics estrogen, the female hormone. Some studies in animals show that this chemical can alter sexual development. And in fact, 2 glasses of soy milk/day, over the course of one month, contain enough of the chemical to change the timing of a woman’s menstrual cycle. A very large percentage of soy - over 90% - is genetically modified and it also has one of the highest percentages contamination by pesticides of any of the foods we eat. Soy is also among the ten most allergic foods.

Soy processors have worked hard to get these anti-nutrients out of the finished product, particularly soy protein isolate (SPI) which is the key ingredient in most soy foods which imitate meat and dairy products, including baby formulas and some brands of soy milk.

SPI is not something you can make in your own kitchen. Production takes place in industrial factories where soybeans are first mixed with an alkaline solution to remove fiber, then precipitated and separated using an acid wash and, finally, neutralized in an alkaline solution.

Acid washing in aluminum tanks leaches high levels of aluminum into the final product. As a result, soy-based formula also has over 1000% more aluminum than conventional milk based formulas.

 

[t-dub]

I think using and eating a very small amount of non GMO soy lecithin isn't going to screw me up but I saw some peeps using liquid sunflower lecithin, think I'm going to give this a try:

https://www.mysunflowerlecithin.com/

 

[luchiano]

@grokit like I posted, non-gmo beans. That article did exactly what i claimed, mixing up gmo stories with regular soy, and lumping everything together. These articles are just trying to scare people. When the actual studies are done with tofu or foods that have been eaten for hundreds of years, no problem occurs. It is beneficial. Read my last post. I'm out.

 

[grokit]

@grokit like I posted, non-gmo beans. That article did exactly what i claimed, mixing up gmo stories with regular soy, and lumping everything together. These articles are just trying to scare people. When the actual studies are done with tofu or foods that have been eaten for hundreds of years, no problem occurs. It is beneficial. Read my last post. I'm out.

Soy is both very good, and very bad for us, depending on the form.

What possible motivation would natural/health-food types have to scare people, when they don't want us eating meat? Otoh, the motivations of the billion-dollar processed soy industry should be quite clear.

When all else fails, follow the money

 

[Dawntreader]

This revived thread has not only been incredibly educational but motivated me to do quite a bit more reading on the whole subject. I am so grateful to all the folks who have shortened the learning curve for people like me just really getting into the whole of everything! LOL!

4. Phytoestrogens/Isoflavones: Plant compounds resembling human estrogen can block your normal estrogen and disrupt endocrine function, cause infertility, and increase your risk for breast cancer.

This is why i avoid soy personally~

Excellent links! Thanks again everyone! Will be looking into sunflower lecithin also.

So glad to find this alternative! It is going in my new batch this weekend

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/green-eggs-ham.9698/

True story...i made a sunny side up egg open face english muffiin for breakfast today. Drizzled a teas of cococannanut oil on muffin after a little real butter and then topped with the egg. The blossom that normally occurs after 40-60 minutes occurred in 30 and seemed to indeed be more enhanced. So i imagine the natural lecithin in the egg was the power player. Great mellow high all day

 

[t-dub]

I received my Lekithos 100% Organic Liquid Sunflower Lecithin today and this stuff is amazing. It is thick and very rich in flavor and texture. Taste is excellent with a hint of sunflower seed. Should perform very well in my MB2 when I receive it. I plan on using this to create an infused coconut oil but I'm sure I will be using it in more things like dressings etc.

 

[Dawntreader]

@t-dub , this is exactly what i want but currently slow cooking a batch of coconut oil with granular. id love to hear about your results!

 

[Dawntreader]

So this is my latest batch and it is a winner I used 1 1/4 c coconut oil, 2 teas of non gmo soy lecithen ( its all i had till sunflower comes in) 7 grams of bud decarboloized for 60 minutes @230 degrees, infused on low for 3 hours and let sit in crockpot overnight. Strained it in morning and it filled 60 1 teas cubes.

At 9:15am i sampled 1 cube and felt first bloom 20 minutes later...by 7.5 hours post ingestion, i still had a decent body buzz, and extremely chill disposition. I never got couch lock and could function on all levels ( just high ) Even 24 hours later, i still feel remnants of yesterdays dose!

Compared to prior batch which did not have lecithen and was only decarbolized for 20 minutes at 230 degrees, I feel i increased potency by almost 50% and increased onset of bloom significantly.

Now i have some beautiful plant material in my crockpot and thinking of making a pasta sauce with it...last time i did it was killer. Ofcourse if anyone has some other ideas, i would love to hear them!

 

[New_World]

I am personally against soy lecithin.
it is an excitotoxin generating free radicals increasing inflammation in the brain.
..i know its in just about everything...and its frustrating....I still try to avoid.
GM or not I still don't want consume it.
any time your break down a protein it becomes an excitotoxin.

this is not the only food additive to be wary of.....there is a never ending list IMHO.
aspartame and MSG are some of the really bad ones that are more well known...both excitoxins as well.


here's your next question.
if these "excitotoxins" are so well known to be harmful..........why are they put in our food?
IMO.........plain stupidity or its happening on purpose.
the peer reviewed medical literature speaks for itself.

 

[luchiano]

@New_World what substance in soy lecithin is an excitotoxin? I understand why something as msg is considered an excitotoxin, but why soy lecithin? If I'm correct it doesn't have amino acids like glutamate that is an excitotoxin when ingested in high amounts. Also, the reason why the problem occurs with foods like cheese, tomato paste or soy sauce, or fermented foods that can be considered excitotoxin is because when you eat too much of them,a lot of glutamate goes to the brain, and excites it creating a lot of free radicals, but if you eat these foods in a small amount, and with some fiber, and foods high in antioxidants, are these issues still there? I don't think they are.

But, I would like to know what makes soy lecithin an excitotoxin?

BTW, I do agree that msg shouldn't be eaten. Its too easy to go overboard with it since it doesn't have other things to help counteract it like fiber or antioxidants. A good soy sauce has antioxidants which will help deal with the free radicals, and its a sauce, so in most instances you will be ingesting it with other food rich in fiber, and antioxidants, allowing for it to be absorbed more slowly, and have less free radicals roaming in the brain causing damage.

@Dawntreader i noticed you like coffee in your Sig. You know it is rich in phytoestrogens just like soy. Its different forms of phytoestrogen but, you may want to take note of this fact since I noticed you said phytoestrogens is why you don't want to eat soy. Just a heads up. Personally, I don't see a problem with it.

 

[New_World]

@New_World what substance in soy lecithin is an excitotoxin? I understand why something as msg is considered an excitotoxin, but why soy lecithin? If I'm correct it doesn't have amino acids like glutamate that is an excitotoxin when ingested in high amounts. Also, the reason why the problem occurs with foods like cheese, tomato paste or soy sauce, or fermented foods that can be considered excitotoxin is because when you eat too much of them,a lot of glutamate goes to the brain, and excites it creating a lot of free radicals, but if you eat these foods in a small amount, and with some fiber, and foods high in antioxidants, are these issues still there? I don't think they are.

But, I would like to know what makes soy lecithin an excitotoxin?

BTW, I do agree that msg shouldn't be eaten. Its too easy to go overboard with it since it doesn't have other things to help counteract it like fiber or antioxidants. A good soy sauce has antioxidants which will help deal with the free radicals, and its a sauce, so in most instances you will be ingesting it with other food rich in fiber, and antioxidants, allowing for it to be absorbed more slowly, and have less free radicals roaming in the brain causing damage.

@Dawntreader i noticed you like coffee in your Sig. You know it is rich in phytoestrogens just like soy. Its different forms of phytoestrogen but, you may want to take note of this fact since I noticed you said phytoestrogens is why you don't want to eat soy. Just a heads up. Personally, I don't see a problem with it.

I'm glad to see someone else who is interested in this topic. =)

the reason I believe it is an excitotoxin is because it is part soy.
In all honesty I think these lecithins a much smaller issue compared to many other excitotoxins because when the soy is processed much of the impurities and toxins are removed such as isoflavones, manganese, ect...


whats the next topic?
vaccinations? =)

 

[Dawntreader]

[USER=21428]@Dawntreader i noticed you like coffee in your Sig. You know it is rich in phytoestrogens just like soy. Its different forms of phytoestrogen but, you may want to take note of this fact since I noticed you said phytoestrogens is why you don't want to eat soy. Just a heads up. Personally, I don't see a problem with it.[/USER]

@luchiano : Wow...thanks for the heads up, i think? LOL! After reading my sig line, there are probably only 2 things the WHO would deem healthy- beach and kayaking ( ofcourse skin cancer and drowning are viable risks)

Several things i would say here: 1) i still avoid unfermented soy although in this batch of cococannaoil, i used 2 teas of soy lecithin to 1 1/4 cups of coconut oil which produced 60 teas servings equal to .03 soy in each one and i only consume on my day off - friday so that would be .13 of a soy product per month. I can live with that~

As to coffee and beer, terribly disappointing to discover those are phytoestrogens I think if i had a genetic propensity for estrogen sensitive cancers, i would have to take myself off those two vices but i have given up so much in my quest for healthy living...I am going to have to put my faith in my raw green smoothies and my acupuncturist for the time being because i really do enjoy those beverages ...

 

[grokit]

Coffee is like soy then, where we could endlessly debate its health benefits vs its potential to do us harm. One important difference is that soy is on most food allergies/sensitivities top 10 lists, along with wheat and dairy while coffee is not. Coffee does have a very high toxic load however so drink organic if possible.

 

[ragnorokk]

that is what i was thinking. i will add some to the butter after i remove the water, in my refining process.

this is actually a 50/50 mix of ghee and coconut oil, specific for a baking recipe (not mine)

i put the globe from my oil rig in there earlier. and just took it out clean that should punch these cookies up a notch.

How did it work? Was it worth doing the old boiling method to remove the plant matter, and then following up with the lecithin, or have you moved to just oil, plant matter, and lecithin (no water) and straining the plant parts out?

 

[pressure]

I felt that this substance deserves its own thread, as I've been using it in my canna-oil cooking for the last couple of months, and I can't recommend it highly enough.

BadKat's CannaPharm recipe,
But yeah, soy lecithin - get some. You won't regret it.

where is the recipe?

 

[ragnorokk]

where is the recipe?

Google it, BadKat is from another forum but you won't have trouble finding the recipes

 

[SNOOKEYJ]

Think of all the poor kittens Q!

Thanks for the thread. Can't wait to try this. As a scientist, the fact that it contains choline is extremely interesting from a developmental and neurological standpoint.

They sell the powder at a couple local stores. They also have sunflower lecithin (extracted without any harmful chemical solvents such as acetone and hexane) so I may just get that instead.

DID THE SUNFLOWER LICITHIN WORK?