So, is the US Presidential election actually over?

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@Accept - you are a partisan. I am a political atheist. Your name calling, even with pictures, will not deter me from seeing things as they actually happen. I dislike both sides so you will have a problem manipulating me with your partisan hate. Good luck in actually presenting something relevant to the discussion.
If you are truly a political atheist why do you seem to be (strongly even) coming to the defense of this authoritarian billonaire turd...?
Weird, i really do not get why?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...s-what-you-got-conned/?utm_term=.528101c81ccf
 
Havelock Vetenari,

HellsWindStaff

Dharma Initiate
He is just pointing out flaws and the lack of actual points. Reality is what it is, no matter anyone spins it. Look at facts. Name calling anything (Trump too) gets no where. And lessens points. Said this ad naseum.

It's important for me as a Trump supporting libertarian to not become basically the left in terms of preaching. Just need to accept people won't see forest for the trees.

Why does white nationalist Steve Bannon get such fear. His position is meaningless in scheme of things. White nationalist isn't scary unless you view white as scary. It's a stupid fear mongering talking point.

Same with Gay conversion camps. I had friends so scared and when I said illegitimate fear met with I don't get it cause straight lol. They don't get it. It won't happen. Stupid fear mongering talking point.

Don't get me started on the Taiwain talk = war. That was silly. its good for both of us.

Saw stuff about more Trump supporters coming out woodwork here, and in general. I agree too. My thanksgiving I was greeted by my liberal Bernie bro cousin who I haven't seen in forever in a Trump Pence shirt. Was great being able to MAGA with him :) but when the prevailing talking points make it "bad" to support Trump we stayed hidden. Said that around Brexit. Silent majority was real. Now we are slightly less silent. I am staying relatively silent as I like seeing the graves dig themselves and just smiling at how unwoke some can be.

The media fuels these points. Washington post is trash lol. Ny times trash. CNN trash. Late night talk show hosts are trash. Oliver trash. Anyone who perpetuates a "hahaha look how stupid those Trump supporters are and look how dumb he is!" Covered in bias is honestly just fucking trash that is dividing this country.

Let's keep this open
 

thisperson

Ruler of all things person
The only talking point I've brought up in regards to Trump is his racism. Because it gets to me. I'm a hispanic. Sure my last name is from Spain and I can pass off as white due to pale skin and freckles and a light colored beard, but when it comes down to it, this man insulted my family. I'm willing to give him a chance when it comes to policy making decisions, sometimes fresh ideas do get things moving, but to say that we have to be accepting of his moves however insane, is just not right. We're allowed to criticize, but far too often criticism from within is taken as not with us. I love America, it educated me and taught me an inspirational philosophy about life, but far too often in the name of patriotism those who profess to love America the most murder her. And I think Trump is doing something similar with what I've heard in regards to his flag burning position. When Trump moves toward social liberties, fiscal conservatism without piss down economics which we know don't work and some type of protectionism in trade, I'll applaud him, and I've even given him credit where it is due.

Rant for a rant.
 

Been Vapin

Fringe Class
1262867074647.jpg

I think the name of this thread is no longer accurate...anyone have suggestions for what it should be named?
 
Been Vapin,

grokit

well-worn member
How about,
"We're not just here to take part — we're here to take over.":goon:

Oh wait that's from the ufc :freak:

:myday:
 

gangababa

Well-Known Member
Progressives vs Regressives, A philosophy of politics
Dark Ages vs Enlightenment, A history of politics
Reality of fact or Factless fiction, A science of politics
From Ronnie to Donnie, A dystopia of politics
 
gangababa,
Why does white nationalist Steve Bannon get such fear. His position is meaningless in scheme of things. White nationalist isn't scary unless you view white as scary. It's a stupid fear mongering talking point.
It's only NOT scary when you're white...(and not gay or female...)and an racist asshole IMAO...
I'll be bowing out of this thread, life's too short for this kind of hate...
 

HellsWindStaff

Dharma Initiate
It's only NOT scary when you're white...(and not gay or female...)and an racist asshole IMAO...
I'll be bowing out of this thread, life's too short for this kind of hate...

:doh:.......:doh:....and....................:doh:.

Did you just assume my race? My great grandfather came here from Palestine. And it's not scary to me. Or do I not count as Middle Eastern cause I'm a mix of that Italian Polish and Czech? How does the sliding scale work?

Weird how any pro Trump support/lack of left support is relegated to "this kind of hate" that's why you lost. Again and again. You'll still keep losing with that mentality.

I suggest you both look up the definition of nationalist and also nationalism. The "spoooky white nationalist Steve Bannon" articles are fear mongering tactics that you guys apparently bought into. Nationalism isn't scary. Being a nationalist isn't scary. So I assume the issue is with his whiteness? Never mind the point that he is not in a position of any real power. So why so scared?

Before you slap your head at my post I should remind you that based on the U.S. Politics thread and other political threads, the majority of FC have no finger on the pulse. So maybe take my opinion with a grain of salt more than people who have repeatedly been wrong? Or relegate it to hate speech lol whatever floats your boats
 
HellsWindStaff,

thisperson

Ruler of all things person
It is very telling that those with the farthest grabbing agenda will cry the loudest about nationalist sentiment. Do not be fazed. History's strongmen have appeared under the guise of committing nationalist acts. That is why.

I'm specifically thinking Hitler and Stalin.
 

lwien

Well-Known Member
I suggest you both look up the definition of nationalist and also nationalism. The "spoooky white nationalist Steve Bannon" articles are fear mongering tactics that you guys apparently bought into. Nationalism isn't scary. Being a nationalist isn't scary. So I assume the issue is with his whiteness? Never mind the point that he is not in a position of any real power. So why so scared?

I don't have a problem with nationalism. What I do have a problem with is white nationalism which is, by definition, an ideology that advocates a racial definition of national identity and for me, having a close confidant and adviser to the President who is on staff in the white house and who is a white nationalist and who's job it is to advise the President of the United States, THAT, for me and many others, is a very scary proposition and it is so not only because of who Steve Bannon is but more importantly, that our President hired him for the job.

Edit: (I seldom do run-on sentences but for some odd reason, I just couldn't break this one up. :\)

Edit #2: After just reading the definition of nationalism, I have to amend what I said above and clearly state that I have a problem with that as well. Definition is as follows: " ..a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups"
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nationalism

And the reason that I have an issue with it is the idea of "exalting one nation above all others"...
I reject the idea of invalidating other nations because we feel superior. The simple fact is, its that globalization is already out of the bag spurred by technology. You can't unring a bell. Elvis has left the building.......
 
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CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
We sure don't want this kind of BS type of law here with such surveillance power in the U.S. What about our FC conversations? I could see republicans going down that road with Trump and some of his choices at the helm. I don't think that being vigil making sure our rights aren't screwed with isnt being paranoid either after what we see in Europe.
:leaf:
CK

LONDON—In Britain, Big Brother just got bigger.

After months of wrangling, Parliament has passed a contentious new snooping law that gives authorities — from police and spies to food regulators, fire officials and tax inspectors — powers to look at the Internet browsing records of everyone in the country.

The law requires telecoms companies to keep records of all users’ web activity for a year, creating databases of personal information that the firms worry could be vulnerable to leaks and hackers.

Civil liberties groups say the law establishes mass surveillance of British citizens, following innocent Internet users from the office to the living room and the bedroom.

Tim Berners-Lee, the computer scientist credited with inventing World Wide Web, tweeted news of the law’s passage with the words: “Dark, dark days.”

The Investigatory Powers Bill — dubbed the “snoopers’ charter” by critics — was passed by Parliament this month after more than a year of debate and amendments. It will become law when it receives the formality of royal assent next week. But big questions remain about how it will work, and the government acknowledges it could be 12 months before Internet firms have to start storing the records.


The presidential election is never over - there's always another one starting in a year after the president is elected. Get ready for next time!:2c::peace: "The presidential election is never over" could be a good title for this thread.
 
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grokit

well-worn member
White nationalism = national socialism.

Socialism is the future, because capitalism can't continue indefinitely in a world of finite resources.

The question is what flavor of socialism we will end up with?
  • National socialism = fascism
  • Tyrannical socialism = communism
  • Democratic socialism = the only way out :2c:

:myday:
 

gangababa

Well-Known Member
Our nation is named the United States of America; we jingoistic call the USA, "America", thus denying other Americans from the Arctic Circle to Tiera Del Fuego.

If we want this country to be nationalistic, then we need to be true to the fact that the country was founded on the idea of democracy. Belief, not blood is all that exalts the USA above other nations.
Our nation grew by including, not excluding otherness.

If the USA in the 21st century begins to identify 'americanism' by gene pool like some ancient inbreed nation, then all the world best find a better role model to emulate.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
If the USA in the 21st century begins to identify 'americanism' by gene pool like some ancient inbreed nation, then all the world best find a better role model to emulate.
If we were to do that, we would have to exclude everyone who had no American Indian blood. They were here long before any Europeans.

Green Party to file petition in federal court to force Pa. recount
Updated: December 3, 2016 — 10:59 PM EST
by Caitlin McCabe

Former Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein withdrew her statewide recount effort in Pennsylvania on Saturday after a Commonwealth Court judge mandated that the 100 voters who brought the suit on the campaign's behalf post a $1 million bond to press on with the challenge.

In court documents filed ending the petition shortly before 5 p.m., an attorney for the Stein campaign wrote: "Petitioners are regular citizens of ordinary means. They cannot afford to post the $1,000,000 bond required by the Court."

The abrupt halt to the campaign's strategy comes less than one week after Stein asked a Pennsylvania court to approve a statewide recount, contending the Nov. 8 election was "illegal" and the results inaccurate.

Still, according to statement issued on Stein's Facebook page just before midnight Saturday, a lawyer for the Stein recount effort indicated the fight in Pennsylvania is not over. Beyond a second recount effort in the state - a county-by-county attempt - that is still alive, Stein's attorney said the campaign will file a petition in federal court Monday, "demanding a statewide recount on constitutional grounds."

"Make no mistake - the Stein campaign will continue to fight for a statewide recount in Pennsylvania," lawyer Jonathan Abady said in a statement Saturday night. "We are committed to this fight to protect the civil and voting rights of all Americans."

Stein will hold a news conference about the Pennsylvania recount Monday at 10 a.m. outside Trump Tower in New York.

In pursuing the recount in Commonwealth court, the campaign cited research from computer scientists suggesting that possible irregularities with electronic voting machines could have made the election vulnerable to hackers. Stein's campaign has hoped a recount in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan could overturn the results in three key swing states that historically back Democrats for president but elected Donald Trump.

In Pennsylvania, the statewide recount request was filed last Monday by at least 100 voters, as required by Pennsylvania law, and was backed by the Stein campaign. No residents were named.

On Friday, Commonwealth Court President Judge Mary Hannah Leavitt ordered that the $1 million be paid by this Monday.

"The judge's outrageous demand that voters pay such an exorbitant figure is a shameful, unacceptable barrier to democratic participation," Stein said in a statement Saturday. "This is yet another sign that Pennsylvania's antiquated election law is stacked against voters."

After the lawsuit was withdrawn Saturday afternoon, hope for at least a partial recount in Pennsylvania remained, as Stein's county-by-county recount effort will continue, said Lawrence Otter, an attorney for the Stein campaign who filed court documents Saturday.

In a separate effort, the campaign had hoped voters in Pennsylvania precincts would submit petitions to their local election boards asking for recounts. The process required three voters in each precinct to make the petition. Locally, petitions were filed in Philadelphia, Bucks, Montgomery, and Delaware Counties, Otter said - efforts that have been met with mixed success.

Last week, Philadelphia's commissioners agreed to recount ballots in 75 of the city's more than 1,600 divisions, but rejected a forensic audit of how the voting machines worked. Judges in Bucks and Delaware Counties are expected to hold hearings on the matter this week, Otter said.

A request for recounts in 72 of Montgomery County's precincts was rejected by a judge last week. A partial recount in Allegheny County, which includes Pittsburgh, will take place Monday.

Together, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin - all of which voted Democrat in the last two presidential elections - carry enough electoral votes to flip the election. But so far, the state's top election official, Pedro Cortes, has said there was "no evidence whatsoever" of voting irregularities.

Trump beat Clinton by about 49,500 votes, a gap that narrowed this week by about 20,000 votes after results were updated.

Stein's recount efforts have faced fierce pushback from Trump's team, which filed complaints last week in the three states to halt the recount efforts. The discontinuance in Pennsylvania is "a recognition that their election contest was completely without merit," Lawrence Tabas, lead counsel for Trump in the state, said Saturday.

To fund the recounts, Stein last month established an online fund-raising drive, which by Saturday night had reached nearly $7 million. In Wisconsin, Stein was required to pay nearly $3.5 million for the recount, which began Thursday.

In Michigan, a statewide recount is slated to proceed. The state's Board of State Canvassers deadlocked 2-2 Friday on Trump's request to reject the recount, meaning a recount will occur unless the courts step in to stop it.

A hearing for the recount had been scheduled in state court Monday. That has now been canceled.
 
cybrguy,

t-dub

Vapor Sloth
I think the name of this thread is no longer accurate...anyone have suggestions for what it should be named?
Well considering the content probably "closed" or "ABV" would be appropriate.

The lack of discussion is beyond pointless. The democrats refuse to learn from their mistakes in this election and this pains me. Why? Because when you call someone a racist or homophobe or islamophobe or a white supremacist over and over again, when its really not true, guess what happens? People stop talking and just go away. They also stop taking you seriously. The dems need to realize that they lost the election, in part, because the "cards", race card etc, have all been played so many times without merit that it has become crying wolf. And if you want to have a rational discussion and possibly win someone over to your side, when you start calling them unwarranted names, they just shut up and go away. You may think this is winning an argument, but its not. Its shouting down the other side and when people stop talking, they start fighting.

Also, when people start talking about Stalin and Hitler they need to understand that the Nazi party was the National Socialist Party first and we all know what Stalin was about. Until you realize that Hitler exterminated over 11 million people and Stalin over 18 million of his own people, usually starving them to death, any comparison to what is happening here is nonsense. Besides, Chairman Mao killed between 60 to 80 million of his own people, during peace time!!! Try that on for size. Mao makes the other two look like alter boys. All of this mass murder comes from socialism and communism every time. Nothing more, nothing less. So anyone advocating that we need a form of socialism, and you know who you are, you really need to have your head examined.
 
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HellsWindStaff

Dharma Initiate
Nationalism has nothing to do with race. It's a fear mongering talking point. They say "white nationalist" and yes he is white and yes he is nationalist. He's not a white supremacist. It's an insult with no actual point. It doesn't scare me?

America first! That makes me a nationalist. Not scary :) lol.

I'm cool with those recounts. We can win doubly like we have already elsewhere! Bigly winning! It's over. Jill is pocketing that extra cash.

Here's an example of media bias and it influencing your trains of thought. The "controversy" of Taiwan leader talking to Trump. Just within this year Obama was celebrated for talking with scumbag dictator Castro and this event was celebrated. Trump fields a phone call from a democratically elected official and it's a talking point? :lol: c'mon

Another:

Remember when Obama said no way Jose that Trump could keep the Carrier plant in USA? He'd need a magic wand? Anyone remember? I member! It's staying. No wand needed. Such MAGA wizardry!

i was watching the Matrix earlier, this quote reminded me of here:

"I didn't say it would be easy; I said it would be the truth" - Morpheous
 
HellsWindStaff,
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