Should Public Schools Be Able To Spank Students?

[HD Springer]

I will spank my own kids IF necessary. No one else has the right to put their hands on my kids. Plain and simple. If my kids need discipline that requires some type of physical punishment then it will come at the hands of my wife or myself at home.
The deal is the older a child gets the less you should need to discipline them.
So I'm not necessarily against spankings,in some cases it's needed. I do think past generations relied too heavily on that type of parenting.
As far as schools go I do believe they are asking for trouble any time they lay their hands on a student/child. It should be against all laws if it's not already.

 

[Maitri]

No one else has the right to put their hands on my kids.

Do you have a right to physically assault your children or is it a privilege born out of the advantageous physical, socioeconomic, and other power differentials you hold over your children?

If my kids need discipline that requires some type of physical punishment

What determines whether your child needs some type of physical punishment? Is it possible that there could be a nonviolent method that is more effective than violence?

And why are we punishing rather than educating?

 

[HD Springer]

Do you have a right to physically assault your children or is it a privilege born out of the advantageous physical, socioeconomic, and other power differentials you hold over your children?



What determines whether your child needs some type of physical punishment? Is it possible that there could be a nonviolent method that is more effective than violence?

And why are we punishing rather than educating?

Its very simple in my eyes. This is my family. I will do what ever is necessary to give my kids the best chance to become contributing members of our society. I have never and will never raise my hand in anger to my kids. A spanking is the absolute last resort. And is always followed with hugs and love. I might mention that none of my kids has had to be spanked past the age of about 5. I absolutly hate doing it.
To blindly say across the board that spankings are bad for all kids is very sad in my eyes. With this thinking our society is turning into complete chaos. And I'm sorry but I'll never think other wise.
A spanking should always be followed with a hug and tears in both party's eyes. And never out of anger. Of course this now more then ever is IMO.
And I do think you saying that I assault my kids is crossing a line. Any time you want to publicly apologize feel free.

 

[CarolKing]

I grew up in the 1960s. Many families back then spanked their kids including the schools. My parents chose not to do this with me. I was a good kid. I very seldom did anything wrong while I was in my elementary school years. I was always trying to be good. Later as a teen I did things but worked hard not to get caught.

I had friends that lived down the street and their parents would spank with a coat hanger, an electrical cord and good ole dad's belt. At the time I didn't realize that this was abusive. I knew I had to go home when they got in trouble so I didn't see the violence. Later on I would see the bruises. Both parents were alcoholic. The kids would get in trouble for leaving the yard. Even back then this would be considered OK, this was parents disciplining their children. This is a different topic.

Do the schools have a right to spank the students? If you chose to give your small kids a swat on the behind that's your choice. If it gets out of hand, that's a different story. It has a lot to do with how we were raised and treated growing up.

 

[stickstones]

I define discipline as corrective action with the purpoose of bringing about a change in character. It is done out of love and concern. I think a lot of the world confuses discipline with violence and lumps them in the same category without seeing the difference.

 

[CarolKing]

Sometimes the definition for discipline for one person is different for another. There can be a fine line in some families between discipline and physical abuse. You choose how to raise your own children. How you were raised i'm sure has an influence on how you raise your own children.

A simple swat on the bottom or slap of the hand of a pre schooler is what usually happens in regular families. I wouldnt consider that abuse. Maybe your child runs out towards the street - you need to get your point across. That would be constructive discipline if you gave your pre schooler a swat on the bottom with your hand. If you grabbed a branch and spanked your child's bare bottom and left welts that's abuse. That would be my definition of discipline and physical abuse.

This might get to be a button pushing thread, I didn't mean it to be.

I'm straying away from the original post, this was about public schools. Maybe you give your small child a swat but do you want the schools to be spanking?

Edit
I agree with you 100% @lwien verbal abuse is devastating to a person, let alone a child.

 

[olysh pops]

As I was a child I was a physical and psychological violences victim.

Mother agitated behaviour pertubated me and I ve looked for getting help, showing to my teachers (public and private schools) I was feeling ill at ease with myself.

I ve expressed my suffering with my kid's means who had to "denounce" his mother : I was agitated, I stole, I broke, I always had bad discipline ratings, was trying to get attention from teachers.

Teachers did not understand my pain; some had corporal violence with me trying to teach me how to "discipline myself". Actually they amplified my problems.

Adult I spent many years with professionnal help, repairing what my mother broke or prevented to construct when I was a child. I don't thank teachers and educators who met me and never understood or suspected a suffering.

All her life my mother teached at public primary school . I don't know if she spanked pupil.

 

[lwien]

Gotta add to this conversation by stating that verbal abuse "can" be more devastating to a child than a spanking. There are a LOT of things that we as parents can say to a child that that could have long lasting negative consequences rather than an occasional spanking not done out of anger but out of love.

What determines whether your child needs some type of physical punishment? Is it possible that there could be a nonviolent method that is more effective than violence?

Sure there is and Springer stated it as such being that he said that it was a last resort and considering the context of his actions by the way he explained it, your description of "violence" is a bit over the top, eh?

And why are we punishing rather than educating?

Those two concepts are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Stevenski]

Reading this thread brought back some memories for me involving getting a smack. I don't believe smacking is a detrimental thing but it needs to be used in the right circumstance & situation. It also should be a final resort after other avenues have been found lacking & there is a huge distinction between getting a smack & being beaten.

My 2.5 year old nephew was at my house with his parents & started misbehaving. I told him twice not to do what he was doing & he also ignored the 10 count from his father. He got a perfect smack on the arse from my brother for his trouble. Not too hard & not too soft but enough to sting for a minute or two before it is forgotten. Within a minute or two he was hugging my legs & saying he was "sowwy uncle".

That reminded me of when I was the same age & was told not to touch the sugar sachets so I filled my pockets with them. I then proceeded to empty them all over the back seat of dads car with my brother but I was the one caught. Car pulled over, held up by the wrist & the right hand getting the shorts pulled down & a solid smack on the back of the legs with the upswing. Thirty five years later I still feel my little legs sprinting but catching only thin air . I also clearly remember my brother leaning over the back seat laughing at me crying taking the punishment for both of us. I learnt a life lesson. Don't open sugar packets & tip them all over the car seats like a little shit.

The big one for me was the only male teacher at my primary school would always threaten kids with 25 lines or a smack with the blackboard compass. Needless to say every kid that got in trouble took the 25 lines & so did I at least twice a week if not more. Then came the fateful day when I was told to stay after school (not unusual for me) & I still remember that smug look on the cunts face when he said "No lines, just compass. Bend over". This prick was a 6'+ martial arts instructor & held up as a community leader by all & sundry.

Nearly 30 years later I can still feel his hand on the back of my neck securing me so I could not get away. With his right hand he swung the compass hitting me across the arse & I burst into tears as I had never felt pain like it. I went home & was left with a bruise that went from cheek to cheek & was at least 1" wide. I was ten years old. That was assault by a man on a small child. That was the 1980's & shit like that was deemed to be OK.

 

[TeeJay1952]

Catholic High School, late 60's: each teacher had his specialty punishment. Latin teacher had a whip-go-round. All offenders ran in a circle and he whipped every other student. If you weren't hit, guy in front and guy behind got it. Hockey coach gave "slapshots" Math teacher was bowling coach, had you lay on floor and dropped pin on you. I remember getting an old priest for homeroom, acting up and he got on phone and wrestling coach came and got me for "further instruction" in gym.
Good times. good times!

 

[Aimless Ryan]

I dropped out of college a semester before I was supposed to graduate and become a teacher because American public schools are filled with sadistic fucks who get off on hurting kids. I couldn't take it anymore. During my practicum (which is like student teaching lite), at lunch I had to constantly listen to teachers talk shit about their students. This was several years after having been expelled from high school myself, before going back the following semester, then dropping out; mostly because most of my teachers were sadistic pieces of shit. Especially to the kids who most needed them not to be.

Being spanked never did a thing to correct my behavior. All it ever did was make me hate the person getting off on hurting me instead of simply informing me what I did wrong and why I shouldn't do it anymore. Yeah, sometimes that's all it takes; probably most of the time.

 

[stickstones]

I spent two years at a religious school when middle school aged. The principal would cane us for discipline. We would hold out the palms of our hands and he would whack them with a cane several times. Burned like shit and almost always would get a knuckle hit or some sort of injury that always left me thinking "can't they come up with something that doesn't physically injure my hand so I can still write?"

A year later I was at a public middle school with one of the largest dean of boys I have ever seen. He would paddle us with a big wooden paddle on the butt (pants on). I only got that treatment once, as I never wanted it again. For me, it was effective at keeping me in line.

The hardest thing about true discipline is applying it in a way that has effect, since we don't all respond to things the same way. What worked for me and my kids might be awful for yours...

 

[BD9]

What you (meant as a general term, not pointing at anyone) do in your home is none of my business, especially when it comes to parenting. But when it comes to strangers, whether they be teachers, cashiers, etc,... punishing children that's not acceptable. Their idea of punishment may be different than mine. How hard are they swinging? Have they 'had it in' for the child?
Again, when the instrument used is as big as the child, I find that wrong. Some people get off on power and want to hurt the child to send a message. That's wrong.

I think corporal punishment should be banned.

 

[crawdad]

i remember getting paddled in the 2nd grade by my school's principle in the cafeteria up front on stage because i was being too loud (laughing), three hits. was i loud again? no fucking way. sounds like success right? we sometimes gauge success while looking at the things that ultimately matter very little to anyone or anything worth value, especially to ourselves.

i took a hard look at spanking when i became a parent (initially i was on the fence) and ultimately decided that causing physical pain to communicate was not a core family value i cared to promote. no one other than a parent of a child should be able to make that choice.

i've found that words like discipline and consequences can easily lead to bad choices supported by good intentions, i prefer to keep my focus on assisting my children to understand themselves and those around them and let the natural tendency to do the right thing take over. happy thinkers.

 

[lwien]

A few of the best things that we can hope for as parents is to not make the same mistakes that our parents made with us while at the same time, hoping that our kids don't make the same mistakes that we made with them.

 

[crawdad]

leave the world a better place then it was when you got here. thems my apples.

 

[crawdad]

i was reading something else while i was replying and finally got a chance to finish it....want to quote a portion as i think it applies here at least in terms of long term effects...at least i can relate :

Children with toxic stress live their lives in fight, flight or fright (freeze) mode. They respond to the world as a place of constant danger. With their brains overloaded with stress hormones and unable to function appropriately, they can’t focus on schoolwork. They fall behind in school OR fail to develop healthy relationships with peers OR create problems with teachers OR principals because they are unable to trust adults. With failure, despair, and frustration pecking away at their psyches, they find solace in food, alcohol, tobacco, methamphetamines, inappropriate sex, high-risk sports, and/or work. They don’t regard these coping methods as problems. They see them as a way to obtain relief and to escape from depression, anxiety, anger, fear and shame. In other words, a solution, not a problem.

https://acestoohigh.com/2012/05/23/toxic-stress-from-childhood-trauma-causes-obesity-too/

 

[Joel W.]

No.
I got spanked. I turned into a rebel who figured out how not to get caught next time, mostly....

http://www.kiro7.com/news/trending-...ciencies-in-children-new-study-says/244922048

 

[TeeJay1952]

Not getting caught. Isn't that a true adult? Someone who handles their shit without bothering anyone else.

 

[Joel W.]

I think there is a difference between not getting caught and not doing anything wrong..

 

[howie105]

I think there is a difference between not getting caught and not doing anything wrong..

Depends on who is defining what the "wrong" is. Lots of us are criminals because of our consumption of MJ, so the right thing to do is not to get caught. Right and wrong is not always black or white.

 

[DDave]

The problem is parents aren't disciplining effectively at home. Instead they send their disrespectful kids to a public school and take their kid's side over the teacher when something comes up. This leaves teachers exacerbated, even the best ones. In my local school system the administrators have been stripped of any power and can't do anything to keep these kids in line. I feel for a lot of good teachers that are bring systematically driven nuts.

I am much more appalled at the kids we are raising as a society and how quick we are to defend their poor behavior.

Very well said!

There are reasons phrases like this were thought up....

(also commenting that I'm against anyone else laying a hand on someone else's kids)

 

[Joel W.]

Depends on who is defining what the "wrong" is. Lots of us are criminals because of our consumption of MJ, so the right thing to do is not to get caught. Right and wrong is not always black or white.

In terms of school and spanking, my teacher used a paddle and it hurt. So when I got spanked for goofing off or talking in class, I just figured out how to do it and not get caught next time, was my point.

 

[howie105]

In terms of school and spanking, my teacher used a paddle and it hurt. So when I got spanked for goofing off or talking in class, I just figured out how to do it and not get caught next time, was my point.

We are in agreement.

 

[Snappo]

I'm a teacher for many years. I don't want to touch or harm my students in any way... BUT, the parents need to instill discipline and good school behavior in their children. My parents sent me to school with mouth closed and mind open. Nuff said!