Should Public Schools Be Able To Spank Students?

[CarolKing]

I can't believe in this day and age this still goes on. I am outraged by this. I strongly disagree with schools spanking students. Is this really acceptable? IMO this needs to stop.

A mother's outrage-inducing video of a school principal paddling her 5-year-old son sheds light on America's enduring — but slowly fading — affinity for corporal punishment.

A majority of parents say they approve of spanking kids, although their numbers are declining, public opinion polls show. Most states have banned it at school. And yet 19 states, primarily in the South and West, still allow it: Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Wyoming.

Students in those states received corporal punishment 166,807 times in the 2011-2012 school year, according to the most recent federal data available. That's an average of more than 900 times each school day.

That level of frequency seems to contradict a wide body of social science research on the negative impact of slapping, spanking or paddling a child. Some argue that spanking can help drive down a child's IQ or ability to learn. Others say it triggers more aggressiveness. And child welfare advocates warn that corporal punishment — along with harsh but non-physical discipline — is often applied disproportionately to students with disabilities and those who are black, raising the chances that they will fall behind in school.

 

[Maitri]

I can't believe in this day and age this still goes on. I am outraged by this. I strongly disagree with schools spanking students. Is this really acceptable? IMO this needs to stop.

A mother's outrage-inducing video of a school principal paddling her 5-year-old son sheds light on America's enduring — but slowly fading — affinity for corporal punishment.

A majority of parents say they approve of spanking kids, although their numbers are declining, public opinion polls show. Most states have banned it at school. And yet 19 states, primarily in the South and West, still allow it: Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Wyoming.

Students in those states received corporal punishment 166,807 times in the 2011-2012 school year, according to the most recent federal data available. That's an average of more than 900 times each school day.

That level of frequency seems to contradict a wide body of social science research on the negative impact of slapping, spanking or paddling a child. Some argue that spanking can help drive down a child's IQ or ability to learn. Others say it triggers more aggressiveness. And child welfare advocates warn that corporal punishment — along with harsh but non-physical discipline — is often applied disproportionately to students with disabilities and those who are black, raising the chances that they will fall behind in school.

Well put - and you may wish to Google the "polyvagal theory" to learn more about just how harmful this is for us - not only psychologically but even more significantly (believe it or not), physiologically as well.

There is also some wonderful research that shows how praise is more productive than criticism (not the least bit surprising), but also that of the three most common forms of praise, one is beneficial while the other two are actually harmful.

(Source: Kamins and Dweck, Person Versus Process Praise and Criticism - Implications for Contingent Self-Worth and Coping, Developmental Psychology, 1999, Vol. 35, 835-847).

Unfortunately you probably will not find this one unless you have access to a psych research database.

 

[BadDog No]

I've still got unresolved issues from an incident over 50 years ago when a principal twice my size slammed me into a wall and then put an arm bar across my throat so I couldn't breathe. Oh and it was a case of mistaken identity; turns out it was the other "new kid" who had been causing trouble. I share your outrage that corporal punishment is still legal anywhere.

 

[VapourHaze]

Didnt realise you could even still spank kids legally in schools! Seems pretty medieval to me.

I dont have kids but if i did i would defo not want someone hitting them!!

 

[BD9]

I couldn't watch the video but I've read an article about this incident. Terrible! And this person has the nerve to call herself an educator.

 

[CarolKing]

An education of violence. We are teaching the students at that school that its OK to hurt someone physically if they are caught doing something wrong or something you don't like.

I remember back in middle school 47 years ago a student getting a whack with the paddle, she was caught leaving P.E before we were officially excused. I was horrified back then. We didn't spank in our family. My dad liked to yell and be verbally abusive.

There were other times when a student would be called out in the hall and a teacher would give a whack. Most of the time it was a boy. Probably one with untreated ADHD, back then very few students were diagnosed. We could hear it in the classroom. I thought it was a scarey thing.

I believe in states rights but this goes over the the line in these modern times. This seems so archaic.

There needs to be a federal law that corporal punishment is not allowed at public schools. OK Obama get involved.

 

[stickstones]

The problem is parents aren't disciplining effectively at home. Instead they send their disrespectful kids to a public school and take their kid's side over the teacher when something comes up. This leaves teachers exacerbated, even the best ones. In my local school system the administrators have been stripped of any power and can't do anything to keep these kids in line. I feel for a lot of good teachers that are bring systematically driven nuts.

I am much more appalled at the kids we are raising as a society and how quick we are to defend their poor behavior.

 

[OOBubblesOO]

Lmao...

Serious note: I'm alright with parents spanking their children when it's deserved...but I would be absolutely furious if I found out that the school or someone else punished my child in such a way.

Bubs

 

[Slow Draw McGraw]

When I was growing up we had corporal punishment in my schools. I got paddled once for being late in lieu of detention. I was about 11-12 years old and in junior high. This was performed by an Asst Principal.
At that age it didn't mean shit to me.

When I was 5 I got hit on the hand with a ruler for talking in class. It taught me to not talk and to never do shit for that teacher as far as anything nice goes.

Those are my experiences.

I don't agree with it. If you don't discipline your kid(s) at home, then you just don't. Shame on the parent. I got disciplined at home. Very well.
I had no siblings around when I was 5 so when I went to school it was hard not to talk. I was a fucking kid, I'm supposed to know better at 5? Give me a break.

Parents defending kids because that is nature my friend. They are your offspring and you're supposed to defend them especially when a stranger accuses them of anything. If you're wrong in the end, who cares? That's a being a parent.

People forget we all have different personalities even when we are children.

Make the kid pay? They dont know better. School district is there for education, not to hit people. Seriously we would all love jobs that ran smoothly with no problems and would love to hit people when shit makes up mad.

They are getting paid....how much is irrelevant because it's the same argument at any job.

 

[stickstones]

They are your offspring and you're supposed to defend them especially when a stranger accuses them of anything.

I don't consider someone who is educating my child for a year a stranger.

 

[Slow Draw McGraw]

That considering the child ' acts up' after a year.
What about the new teacher for the new school year....


Edit:My thing is, if they want to discipline anyone through suspension, detention, or things of that nature, that is their right.

If they want to put hands on them, that's passed the line.

 

[kellya86]

Gotta be careful hitting kids these days, some of the little buggers have knifes now....

 

[stickstones]

That considering the child ' acts up' after a year.
What about the new teacher for the new school year....


Edit:My thing is, if they want to discipline anyone through suspension, detention, or things of that nature, that is their right.

If they want to put hands on them, that's passed the line.

I'm not making a statement about public schools using spankings. I'm saying the reason it's a problem is because we aren't raising our kids to be respectful as a society.

For the record, I always told my kids if they had a problem with the teacher that I would start out on the adult's side, not theirs. Kid's think they know what's just and fair, but they usually are biased towards themselves. I never had a problem with my kids and a teacher.

 

[Slow Draw McGraw]

I'm not making a statement about public schools using spankings. I'm saying the reason it's a problem is because we aren't raising our kids to be respectful as a society.

For the record, I always told my kids if they had a problem with the teacher that I would start out on the adult's side, not theirs. Kid's think they know what's just and fair, but they usually are biased towards themselves. I never had a problem with my kids and a teacher.

I gotcha bro. There are definitely some rotten kids just as there are rotten teachers.

But as the thread asks, my answer is:

Public schools shouldn't be allowed to spank.

 

[stickstones]

Good point. I should stay on topic!

If I had to vote, I would vote yes until someone came up with an effective alternative. Only because I would rather see the occasional misapplication of discipline than the removal of it. In the schools in my area, it's that or nothing, because the kids don't fear the authority and what little power it has. The good kids have a healthy fear of their parents, and that translates into a respect for authority.

 

[Maitri]

Lmao...

Serious note: I'm alright with parents spanking their children when it's deserved...but I would be absolutely furious if I found out that the school or someone else punished my child in such a way.

Bubs

When is physical violence against the vulnerable deserved?

Gandhi said an eye for an eye leads to a blind world (paraphrase, thus no quotes). It seems to me that if we want to live in a nonviolent world, we would be well served by starting at home - not with our children but with ourselves. We mindlessly, subtly, (and sometime not so subtly) meet ourselves with harmful and unnecessary aggression when gentle loving compassion would be so much more beneficial. An educator (and really anyone) who participates in a consistent compassion based mindfulness practice will cultivate a more open and resilient heart towards herself and thus those with which she comes into contact.

Oh and @stickstones, here is the seed of your effective alternative...

 

[howie105]

I can't believe in this day and age this still goes on. I am outraged by this. I strongly disagree with schools spanking students. Is this really acceptable? IMO this needs to stop...I see it as a decision that a parent needs to make based on the situation at hand.

 

[stickstones]

My question is what effective discipline is acceptable when dealing with someone else's child? I mean like real, public school situations. When faced with a child that repeatedly cuss's at the teacher in class and does the same to the administration. Because right now all they can do is ask the parent to do something about it, and usually they don't. So what should they do?

 

[1DMF]

Corporal punishment in the UK has been banned for decades. I was the last generation to be caned at school, 3 weeks before the ban in 1987!

The UK has now passed laws that smoking in the same room or in a car with a child is a form of abuse and illegal.

The problem now is how effective is a naughty step, when we have children murdering other children or kidnapping them as happened just last week in the UK from Primark - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...plifting-toddler-abducted-branch-Primark.html WTF?

Is the lack of discipline creating a problem, or are there always going to be the odd fucked up few that defies common decency?

 

[Vapor Loop]

Wow they still allow teachers to assault kid's in select states, That's what it is assault and the child can do whatever to protect from said attack. I wonder what those states assault laws look like? I never got why some Preacher tried to do it to me in 95 or 96. The state i was in when it happened a simple bad touch counts as assault, And if a weapon is presented deadly force get's the green light and they pulled a paddle on me. I don't wan't to go into details because it involves a Preacher and me getting pretty graphic with them, Also my English is very bad, So long story short only the preacher was hit by his own paddle while i disarmed him destroyed the phone and kept it. I being the victim was wrongfully but happily expelled, I'm sorry but that guy should have gone to prison and been some big guy's Penis warmer, But noooo my mom wouldn't call the cops said i already took care of it, Oh yeah and she NEVER gave consent for anyone to assault me nor would have.

 

[BD9]

My question is what effective discipline is acceptable when dealing with someone else's child? I mean like real, public school situations. When faced with a child that repeatedly cuss's at the teacher in class and does the same to the administration. Because right now all they can do is ask the parent to do something about it, and usually they don't. So what should they do?

To me it seems violence perpetuates violence. When using a piece of wood that is the same size as the child, that seems disproportionate. I believe that it, corporal punishment, also reinforces negative behavior and does nothing to correct bad behavior.
There are schools for kids with discipline problems. The child could be suspended or removed from the school permanently.

 

[stickstones]

A family member of mine works in a public school admin department. She gets kids every week enrolling that were kicked out of another school in the system. They just bounce from school to school and they can't tell them to go elsewhere.

 

[Slow Draw McGraw]

A family member of mine works in a public school admin department. She gets kids every week enrolling that were kicked out of another school in the system. They just bounce from school to school and they can't tell them to go elsewhere.

Yeah it's bad in some areas but doesn't mean we should hit them tho.

I realize I seem like I'm being a jerk but we're not talking about what the thread Is asking.

 

[CarolKing]

These states include:

Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, North Carolina, South Carolina, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Missouri, Montana, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, and Wyoming.

States in red allow spanking. States in blue have banned it.

I'm surprised that they allow spanking in CO. i thought they were more progressive.

 

[howie105]

Socializing a child is not as easy as getting physical or not, nor is it as simple as what happens at home or at school. Children live in a complex world that often gets defined by affluence, social status, race, regional location, religion, health and more factors then I am willing to try listing. As much as it would be be nice to have a simple silver bullet answer to the questions raised in raising a child I don't see many of them existing. Complex tasks often require complex solutions that often have to be tailored to the child’s needs and its situation not to the way it used to be or how the way someone who doesn’t know the child’s life says it should be.