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Saionara Atomizer thread

Clapped_r6

Well-Known Member
I‘ve been using two coils like crazy for nearly a year and neither shows any sign of burnout yet so that’s a good sign.
I thought my first bucket heater broke, turns out it needed a deep clean with the bucket out. Still rockin.
I will also say I acquired a DT V5 bucket for my Core, and it is in another league as far as heating time. Im sure it won't be as durable, but the tech is neat
 

3l3tric

Active Member
After owning this damn thing for 3-4 years, I finally have a decent functioning setup with it again. My history with this atomizer goes way back to the prehistoric era, where we just had kanthal or SS wrapped around quartz/ceramic (or miracle coils if you felt like wasting wax). And honestly, I kinda hated the damn thing back then. But then the donuts dropped, and finally I had a decently functional setup for the first time. Unfortunately, that mod occasionally shared the sai with a 65W ecig tank, and after forgetting to switch profiles once I had the hit of my life on the sai where I popped the donut coil.

Ah well. By that time, the titanium bucket had dropped, as well as the og poseidon, so I decided to take the plunge and upgrade to the bucket setup. I forget whether the TAF tops weren't an option yet or if I just cheaped out thinking I'd never use them, but in either event, I ended up with a bucket and bubbler and was pretty content for awhile. Unfortunately, the bubbler eventually broke, and I switched to using flower mainly instead for awhile...

Eventually though, I dug my arctic fox mod and sai out of the closet and started messing with it again. While I was getting decent hits every once in awhile, I was having major stability issues with the temp control (the thing would get up to temp then suddenly spike in resistance until I repressed the button, then repeat), and I've been having to just hold a 18mm glass adapter for a whip over the bucket as a sort of top airflow mouthpiece (works surprisingly well if you don't mind the jet engine draw), so it was just generally a fussy pain to use.

Well, today, I summoned the courage (or maybe just got annoyed enough?) to take apart the firing pin, after seeing a post on reddit with someone else having a similar TC glitch with their DTv5 and people recommending they rebuild. And sure enough, when I removed the firing pin from the coil, I found the insulator had burned slightly on one part where one of the leads was making contact. I moved that lead to a different spot away from the burn and went ahead and reinstalled everything, and once the sai was on my mod it suddenly read a lower resistance than I've ever seen (previously cold would read around .85 ohm or so, now reading .72). I went ahead and switched over to the premade profile I'd found that previously just yielded glitched results, and found it was actually working properly!

While I'm still having to deal with the fussy glass stem setup for now, I'll hopefully be able to pick up a TAF cap and some new o-rings to start using again. I'll also be on the lookout for a replacement for the poseidon (since it looks like the bubbler hvt sells only fits the sequoia, and I don't really want a hydrotube).

Anyone have any recs for decent bubblers that fit the sai? And what's the consensus on quartz v titanium bucket coils? Are there aftermarket coils for this thing people prefer now? Basically, catch up a sai owner that froze in time 3 years ago :D
 

BabyFacedFinster

Anything worth doing, is worth overdoing.
After owning this damn thing for 3-4 years, I finally have a decent functioning setup with it again. My history with this atomizer goes way back to the prehistoric era, where we just had kanthal or SS wrapped around quartz/ceramic (or miracle coils if you felt like wasting wax). And honestly, I kinda hated the damn thing back then. But then the donuts dropped, and finally I had a decently functional setup for the first time. Unfortunately, that mod occasionally shared the sai with a 65W ecig tank, and after forgetting to switch profiles once I had the hit of my life on the sai where I popped the donut coil.

Ah well. By that time, the titanium bucket had dropped, as well as the og poseidon, so I decided to take the plunge and upgrade to the bucket setup. I forget whether the TAF tops weren't an option yet or if I just cheaped out thinking I'd never use them, but in either event, I ended up with a bucket and bubbler and was pretty content for awhile. Unfortunately, the bubbler eventually broke, and I switched to using flower mainly instead for awhile...

Eventually though, I dug my arctic fox mod and sai out of the closet and started messing with it again. While I was getting decent hits every once in awhile, I was having major stability issues with the temp control (the thing would get up to temp then suddenly spike in resistance until I repressed the button, then repeat), and I've been having to just hold a 18mm glass adapter for a whip over the bucket as a sort of top airflow mouthpiece (works surprisingly well if you don't mind the jet engine draw), so it was just generally a fussy pain to use.

Well, today, I summoned the courage (or maybe just got annoyed enough?) to take apart the firing pin, after seeing a post on reddit with someone else having a similar TC glitch with their DTv5 and people recommending they rebuild. And sure enough, when I removed the firing pin from the coil, I found the insulator had burned slightly on one part where one of the leads was making contact. I moved that lead to a different spot away from the burn and went ahead and reinstalled everything, and once the sai was on my mod it suddenly read a lower resistance than I've ever seen (previously cold would read around .85 ohm or so, now reading .72). I went ahead and switched over to the premade profile I'd found that previously just yielded glitched results, and found it was actually working properly!

While I'm still having to deal with the fussy glass stem setup for now, I'll hopefully be able to pick up a TAF cap and some new o-rings to start using again. I'll also be on the lookout for a replacement for the poseidon (since it looks like the bubbler hvt sells only fits the sequoia, and I don't really want a hydrotube).

Anyone have any recs for decent bubblers that fit the sai? And what's the consensus on quartz v titanium bucket coils? Are there aftermarket coils for this thing people prefer now? Basically, catch up a sai owner that froze in time 3 years ago :D
My sai continues to sit in a drawer somewhere. I recently bought a dtv5 and that has sat idle while I procrastinate about getting AF loaded on a new mod. I think both these units are quality, but an erig set up is so much easier for me to grab and use without issues. No hassles of resistances and mod settings and creating a 510 jenga setup with a separate bubbler. A lot of people enjoy the fine tuning of the mod experience, I have yet to captivated. Perhaps it's like cars. Some prefer a manual transmission to have greater control of the ride, while others just want to put it in Drive and go. Right now a dtv5 coil in a Core erig is my main driver, but for me it's more about the simplicity and convenience of the erig set up. Sai parts, and many other Crossing tech parts, have been hard to come by lately. I believe HVT has recently started restocking parts.

FWIW, I had very little use with my quartz buckets for the sai and sequoia. I didn't like the longer heat up times compared to the Ti bucket. Until the V5 came along, the sequoia Ti bucket is what I was using in my Core daily and it does the job well. Buckets in general are so much better than twisted metal coils. After several days the bucket will get some build up that I would need to torch clean.
 

710yota

Bodacious Cowboy
Sadly I think the Sai is a little bit neglected now days even by HVT in favor of their Sequoia. Last I looked SIC buckets or the new rebuildable heater were all the rage but looks like they are only making those for the Sequoia. I remember liking the Ti bucket for the Sai alot more due to the faster heat up and the fact I could remove a lot of the chazzing with just distilled water and a q-tip even away from home. Honestly all of the TAF set ups on the site seem a bit dated but they could bring you into 2018 :spliff:

It's great hearing about the old 2016 tech, I remember being thrilled with my big old kannthal coils and being blown away at the concept of a bucket, all seems so primitive now!
 

3l3tric

Active Member
Buckets in general are so much better than twisted metal coils. After several days the bucket will get some build up that I would need to torch clean.
True that. Man, those old twisted coils were such a pain. If they were shipping some large claptons that actually filled the ceramic trough I would've probably been somewhat content, but the tiny coils they were actually using would often end up just splattering as much of a load on the sides as it would actually vaporize. And the miracle coils seemed to only be good at the miracle of making your concentrate vanish. I think those allegedly required a big load like .15-.25g to function properly but I feel like even when I added more they still put out next to no vapor.

The donut was such a revolution, though. It was so nice to be able to just lightly coat the whole donut surface, take a drag, and not have a metric ton of spillage. I think over time the base would eventually build up some reclaim, but overall the donut stayed so much cleaner than any of the previous wrapped coils. And ofc the buckets ended up being a no brainer upgrade once they came about, since they were based on the donuts anyway.

I'm also remembering now that I had a card that came with one of my orders from HVT for 15% off my next order or some deal like that. Unfortunately I think it got lost when I moved, otherwise I'd definitely be throwing that code on when I go to order my new top airflow cap. Seems like the old school sai poseidon's out of stock everywhere too, mirroring what @710yota said about the sai being kinda neglected. I can definitely understand though: If you're a new buyer, the sequoia would be my rec over the sai, no question, but it does still suck for those of us that happen to only own the sai.


EDIT: Now that I'm really digging around, I can't seem to find any aftermarket bubblers that fit the sai. Only one I've found so far on aliexpress is the motar, and I would rather get something with a totally open top so I can easily drop in on a hot nail, rather than that funnel top all those bubblers have. Aside from that I think I found one site left that still stocks the OG bubbler, but surely with all the copies like the Greedy there's gotta be another alternative out there.
 
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EvilJay

New Member
Yall ever use the Sai on just wattage mode? About to go out of town and I think I'm gonna take the titanium bucket for the SAI as my go to, but seeing how high of a wattage is safe to use with it? It says 25w on the card that came with them, but my hits are always wispy, but I am able to vape up all that liquid, unlike the case with the other coils that I got.
Work your way up 28w should hit nice ,I use my Sai plus at 35w and pulse the button
 
EvilJay,

3l3tric

Active Member
Yall ever use the Sai on just wattage mode? About to go out of town and I think I'm gonna take the titanium bucket for the SAI as my go to, but seeing how high of a wattage is safe to use with it? It says 25w on the card that came with them, but my hits are always wispy, but I am able to vape up all that liquid, unlike the case with the other coils that I got.
I think they say 25W to give you a cutoff point where you're unlikely to break the coil. Using temperature control, wattages all the way up to 40W can be used pretty safely, but you can't continuously fire when you get that high.

If you do have to use wattage mode, you'll have a much better time in the 20-25W range if you use a 40W preheat for a few seconds, although many mods unfortunately cut you off at 2 sec or so for a preheat. Otherwise, expect to have to wait 5-7 seconds before drawing since at 25W the bucket will take a fairly considerable time to heat.
 
3l3tric,
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mitchgo61

I go where the thrills are
I think they say 25W to give you a cutoff point where you're unlikely to break the coil. Using temperature control, wattages all the way up to 40W can be used pretty safely, but you can't continuously fire when you get that high.

If you do have to use wattage mode, you'll have a much better time in the 20-25W range if you use a 40W preheat for a few seconds, although many mods unfortunately cut you off at 2 sec or so for a preheat. Otherwise, expect to have to wait 5-7 seconds before drawing since at 25W the bucket will take a fairly considerable time to heat.
On my Voopoo Drag I use the TI coil/bucket combo in wattage mode, because I can’t be arsed to download the firmware update for TCR. I set it around 32 watts, it produces huge vapor when pulsing, and so far the coil seems fine…I’ve been using it at this level for months.

I find anything below 30w doesn’t produce great vapor from this coil combo. On my TCR enabled mods I leave the wattage at 30 which generally works great. (Someone at HVT told me last year you can push the TI coils to 32 and recommended a range of 28-32 in either TCR or wattage mode, FWIW.…YMMV and all that…)
 
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3l3tric

Active Member
Anyone else happen to notice that SiC coils are listed for the Sai on HVT now?


Really curious how well these perform. They also have a listing for the flat heater without a cup so you can add your own quartz/SiC dish, but I don't see the SiC dish listed alone on the site anywhere.

I've gotta admit, the main thing holding me back is my past experiences with coils. I'd hate to drop $50 on one of these only to have to rebuild the 510 pin multiple times just to try to get it to work right. The coil I've had those issues with though was much older (~2018 I think?) so those issues may have been fixed over time.

EDIT: Now that I'm thinking about it, the move might be to get 1 quartz and 1 SiC coil at the same time, since it sounds like the heater is identical in both. Then, if your sic base gives you a ton of issues, just swap the bucket with the quartz base. Gives you a nice backup for heater inconsistency without having to spend SiC money twice.
 
3l3tric,

EvilJay

New Member
Anyone else happen to notice that SiC coils are listed for the Sai on HVT now?


Really curious how well these perform. They also have a listing for the flat heater without a cup so you can add your own quartz/SiC dish, but I don't see the SiC dish listed alone on the site anywhere.

I've gotta admit, the main thing holding me back is my past experiences with coils. I'd hate to drop $50 on one of these only to have to rebuild the 510 pin multiple times just to try to get it to work right. The coil I've had those issues with though was much older (~2018 I think?) so those issues may have been fixed over time.

EDIT: Now that I'm thinking about it, the move might be to get 1 quartz and 1 SiC coil at the same time, since it sounds like the heater is identical in both. Then, if your sic base gives you a ton of issues, just swap the bucket with the quartz base. Gives you a nice backup for heater inconsistency without having to spend SiC money twice.
I do not have a sic cup but you mentioned pins and the pin on my Sai+ atomizer decided to remove itself and is stuck in the box mod...I got it out and put it back in the atomizer after cleaning all the reclaim out of every thing but the Atomizer will not work /connect to the box..any idea on a fix or just buy a new one ?
 
EvilJay,

Cheebsy

Organicly inVerted
I do not have a sic cup but you mentioned pins and the pin on my Sai+ atomizer decided to remove itself and is stuck in the box mod...I got it out and put it back in the atomizer after cleaning all the reclaim out of every thing but the Atomizer will not work /connect to the box..any idea on a fix or just buy a new one ?
I had a similar problem with the sequoia. In my case the spring in the pin failed, the shop I bought from knew about this issue and just sent me a replacement pin and it's been fine since
 

3l3tric

Active Member
I do not have a sic cup but you mentioned pins and the pin on my Sai+ atomizer decided to remove itself and is stuck in the box mod...I got it out and put it back in the atomizer after cleaning all the reclaim out of every thing but the Atomizer will not work /connect to the box..any idea on a fix or just buy a new one ?
So, I wrote up this whole big fancy explanation of how to reassemble coils, only to then reread your post and realize that more than likely you're talking about the pin on the atomizer base itself... lol. I'll go ahead and leave my other writeup here for anyone dealing with broken Sai coils, but apologies if this doesn't actually help fix your issue. For the pin I think you're talking about, first make sure the insulator got reinstalled properly. Not sure if the Sai+ has the same setup as the sai TAF, but on the sai I own that ring is formed kinda weird and takes a bit of messing with to properly get back into position. Also, be wary of overtightening coils, as this can sometimes cause issues with the 510 connector in the coil itself. Once the coil is snug, it's pretty much good as far as tightening goes, I wouldn't be trying to crank it down until it no longer moves. Test another tank on the mod too just to ensure that it's not the mod having issues. I would also experiment with reinstalling the coil to the Sai base both on and off the atomizer to see if that makes a difference.

That's pretty much all the advice I have for issues with the base firing pin, continue on if you think you need assistance with the coil's 510 connector.



I'll probably get a little overly detailed here, but the TL;DR is that the coil is probably saveable. I'll go ahead and explain how the pin system works since I think that's the best way to understand how to fix this scenario, but don't be surprised if you already know a lot of this stuff, I'd rather be overly clear than not provide enough detail.

What's most likely happened here is one of the two coil leads isn't connecting to the 510 firing pin assembly properly. When you assemble a coil in a 510 connector like this, you have to stick one of the coil's leads alongside the firing pin in the center, with the other lead stuck alongside the screw threads with a white insulator ring separating the two. When properly assembled, electricity enters the firing pin, then one coil lead, goes through the coil, then out of the other lead and into the screw threads, completing the circuit.

Now, I'll be honest, this style of connector is pretty fickle, but with some patience you can properly reassemble these coils pretty consistently:

First, remove both the firing pin and the white insulator ring from the atomizer coil. You should see two small wires poking out through the open hole now, and one of these wires should have a bit of clear insulation sleeve on it further down the hole. We'll call this the positive wire, and the one without the negative wire.

Now, we want to adjust the wires so we don't have a ton of excess wire poking out of the connector once we're done. First, take the negative wire, and push it so only a small bit of the wire is poking above the screw threads, then bend that small bit over the barrel. When I say "small bit", I mean really small, like maybe twice the thickness of a fingernail. This slight overhang prevents the wire from being shoved back through the barrel of the 510 connector when you insert the 510 firing pin, but if you leave that overhang too long it will cause fit issues.

Next, go ahead and insert your white insulator ring, taking care to thread the positive wire through the center and keeping the negative wire in position on the outside. You'll want to handle the positive wire about the same way, but take care not to push it too far. The clear insulating sleeve prevents contact of this lead with the coil body (Which would create a short), and if you push this wire too far in, the unsleeved part of the wire may be pushed against the body. Similar to the negative wire, you'll want to create a slight overhang over the insulator, to ensure the positive lead doesn't get forced in when the firing pin is inserted.

Finally, go ahead and insert the firing pin, taking care to ensure both your coil leads stay in the same spots. If you followed the directions on the slight overhangs, you should be able to still see the very end of both coil leads (like, seeing the very tips, not even any of the actual wire sides) indicating that you inserted the firing pin correctly. It will definitely require some force, but you may want to stop and check everything if you think you're having to use "too much" force.

Once the 510 is reassembled, go ahead and screw the coil onto the body, and check the results on your mod. Most boxes will differentiate between a coil short and no coil detected, which helps in further troubleshooting if necessary. If you get a coil short, that means that either some part of the positive lead is touching the body, or some part of the negative lead is touching the firing pin. Check the white insulator ring for breaks in this situation as well. If you're still getting no coil detected, this could be from the firing pin shoving one of the leads back into the barrel, or from some internal coil breakage that unfortunately can't be fixed (but if the atomizer worked before the firing pin "fell out into the mod", this would be extremely unlikely).
 
3l3tric,

3l3tric

Active Member
I went ahead and placed my order for new parts today! I skipped the SiC coil this time around but the first time those go on sale I'll probably end up snagging one. At least now I can finally retire the whip adapter I've been using as a mouthpiece and finally see what the hype of a top airflow cap is :lol:

Speaking of whip adapters, I ended up placing an order with vapepensales for a poseidon and one of their WPA adapters (If I added the poseideon to my HVT order, it would've increased the shipping more than the cost of making a separate order with VPS :p). I figured if I break this poseidon the WPA adapter will provide a nice backup, and the carb cap that comes with it will be nice to use on the poseidon too. I absolutely can't wait to get back into hot loading; Nothing really compares to dropping a nice dab into a 15-20 second preheated bucket.

In the meantime though, I've been messing around a bit in arcticfox with a "preheat" profile that's been helping get my buckets up to temp faster. Using the curve setting, you can actually force the device to run at lower wattages later in the hit. By purposely oversetting my temp by 50-60 degrees then using a custom curve to drop the power later in the hit, I get faster response from the bucket without absolutely torching my material. With the curve I've got so far (using TCR 315 and cold resistance of .63) I get up to a peak temp of 510 F within about 5-6 seconds, then slowly taper from there until finishing the hit around 430-450F.

If you think about what's happening with the bucket assembly, the metal wire you're actually monitoring the temperature of has to heat up the ceramic donut, which then has to heat up the actual bucket surface to be dabbed off of, so the bucket temp is always a bit behind the actual coil temp. If you chart out how long the bucket will take to get to a given temperature (say, Temperature X) given different coil temp settings, you'll see that the bucket reaches Temperature X in less time when the coil temperature is set higher, since the coil will have more wattage applied to it in order to reach the higher temps. By setting the coil temp higher at the start of the puff, and backing off the power once the bucket has started to heat to our desired temp range, we can both have the nice flavor results of long-heat soaked low temp settings alongside the fast ramp-up times of high temp settings.

Unfortunately the custom curve method of setting up this preheat is a little obtuse (preheat curves are meant to increase the power at the start of the hit, and we're doing basically the opposite, after all :p). I don't have experience with DNA mods though, maybe one of those already has this functionality baked-in somehow. It shouldn't be a hard functionality to implement, since from a software side you would just need to be able to write a new value to the target temp variable mid-puff and force the power output down by some percentage to make sure the temp starts going down immediately. It looks like the main reason it wasn't ever implemented in AF was lack of utility.

Anyway, see all of you in a week or so once my new coil/bubbler/top have all come in!
 
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3l3tric,

CanikUser19

Trenchtown Rock
Anyone else happen to notice that SiC coils are listed for the Sai on HVT now?


Really curious how well these perform. They also have a listing for the flat heater without a cup so you can add your own quartz/SiC dish, but I don't see the SiC dish listed alone on the site anywhere.

I've gotta admit, the main thing holding me back is my past experiences with coils. I'd hate to drop $50 on one of these only to have to rebuild the 510 pin multiple times just to try to get it to work right. The coil I've had those issues with though was much older (~2018 I think?) so those issues may have been fixed over time.

EDIT: Now that I'm thinking about it, the move might be to get 1 quartz and 1 SiC coil at the same time, since it sounds like the heater is identical in both. Then, if your sic base gives you a ton of issues, just swap the bucket with the quartz base. Gives you a nice backup for heater inconsistency without having to spend SiC money twice.
Bought one of these SIC buckets way back in March 2021 when they were briefly available on HVT for $59, jumped on it with all the vape ban talk at the time. Still haven’t used it, I should probably dig it out and give it a try.
 
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3l3tric

Active Member
Bought one of these SIC buckets way back in March 2021 when they were briefly available on HVT for $59, jumped on it with all the vape ban talk at the time. Still haven’t used it, I should probably dig it out and give it a try.
From what I understand, in theory it should be the best sai coil. SiC has really good flavor, right there alongside/better than quartz, but it's both insanely durable and pretty thermally conductive so it heats fast. Basically mixes the best mechanical properties of Titanium with the flavor of Quartz.

There probably isn't a better time to buy one, especially now that they're also selling the empty heaters. For $60 you could get the sic bucket and a spare empty heater so even if your original sic's heater coil turns out bunk you still have a backup. With all the glassware/parts I just got though I really couldn't justify that extra cost, at least not RIGHT now :lol:

And besides, April's only a couple months away :brow::spliff:
 
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