Pregnant vaping?

MegaMan2k

Well-Known Member
How dare I not buy into the “Cannabis can do no harm” side of the propaganda?!

It’s a drug, whether you like it or not.

When we are in homeostasis, we don’t “feel something different”. Getting a buzz of any kind is being taken out of homeostasis for the time being.

Also, more doesn’t equal better. More cannabinoids doesn’t equal a healthier or more efficient ECS.

Again, the same way I wouldn’t let someone blow Cannabis vapor into my newborns face, I wouldn’t let the mother of my unborn child consume Cannabis.


Cannabis dont make you high, it's a burst of natural energy. :-)

Sure you can live your life by "science" thats been around for 100 year. Or you can live your life like man have done for the past 1000s of years, natural!

Thats all up to you!


I think you should publish your "hemeostasis research" you sound like you know alot about it :clap::rofl::doh:
 

C No Ego

Well-Known Member
No. When you have a runner’s high or an orgasm you are not in homeostasis. You have taken yourself out of it, which is why you feel those feelings. Your hormones are thrown out of balance.

More cannabinoids =/= better all the time. That’s a common belief held by a lot of cannabis users, but it has no legitimate backing. Nowhere have I seen definitive proof that it’s always better to have artificially elevated cannabinoid levels.

if only we could stall cellular respiration or intracellular signalling right? alas we cannot, our cells are always firing those canna signals and you are correct- the more you do the more exertion that is required from your biology... personally when my cells are buzzing at a high frequency able to handle almost anything presented to them that is homeostasis as you cells are running at optimal capacity... I too can sit very still and feel way more cellular buzz ( anandamide / kundalini / bliss) via meditating than any plant supplement will ever provide and to me that absolute bliss is pure homeostasis... just because people want to live in low vibratory frequencies not activating cellular messaging does not mean that is my personally observed homeostasis level when I can fire those cellular signals at the flip of a inner vision of Joy and bliss.
the most happy dude you will ever meet will be pumping anandamide out his pores... the lowest down dude will be sucking up all available anandamide from anywhere to try and boost their cellular life capabilities

I doubyt you will but look into yogis, they are running at much higher levels... you could pump them full of all the thc in the world and not even have an effect LOL... it's why mainstream views are so Fucked up because people are scared of pure bliss
 
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EverythingsHazy

Well-Known Member
Cannabis dont make you high, it's a burst of natural energy. :-)

Sure you can live your life by "science" thats been around for 100 year. Or you can live your life like man have done for the past 1000s of years, natural!

Thats all up to you!


I think you should publish your "hemeostasis research" you sound like you know alot about it :clap::rofl::doh:
I rather trust the science that extended our life expectancies from 30 years to >70 years and got us to the moon, than people who thought the world was the center of the universe, that chanting could bring rain, and that prayer healed medical conditions.

And, yes....Cannabis does get you high. It’s not just a burst of natural energy. It’s a drug induced buzz. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that, but that’s what it is. You can’t just make up facts to suit your opinions and beliefs.

if only we could stall cellular respiration or intracellular signalling right? alas we cannot, our cells are always firing those canna signals and you are correct- the more you do the more exertion that is required from your biology... personally when my cells are buzzing at a high frequency able to handle almost anything presented to them that is homeostasis as you cells are running at optimal capacity... I too can sit very still and feel way more cellular buzz ( anandamide / kundalini / bliss) via meditating than any plant supplement will ever provide and to me that absolute bliss is pure homeostasis... just because people want to live in low vibratory frequencies not activating cellular messaging does not mean that is my personally observed homeostasis level when I can fire those cellular signals at the flip of a inner vision of Joy and bliss.
the most happy dude you will ever meet will be pumping anandamide out his pores... the lowest down dude will be sucking up all available anandamide from anywhere to try and boost their cellular life capabilities

I doubyt you will but look into yogis, they are running at much higher levels... you could pump them full of all the thc in the world and not even have an effect LOL... it's why mainstream views are so Fucked up because people are scared of pure bliss
I don’t believe for one second, that they won’t feel anything from THC. That’s not how the human body works, unless there is some kind of mutation.
 

MinnBobber

Well-Known Member
I rather trust the science that extended our life expectancies from 30 years to >70 years and got us to the moon....
.............................................................................................................
That would be the same science that is alive in Israel and a few other progressive places today that is showing how and why cannabis is truly a miracle plant.
That would be the cannabis modern day pioneers/scientists who are proving how and why cannabis is helping prevent/cure/mitigate hundreds of diseases/medical conditions.

Science and medical professionals never wanted to make cannabis illegal as they knew the benefits so pleeeease don't point to science being against cannabis. If you trust science, then please educate yourself on what science is showing about cannabis!!!!
And that would be: there has arguably never been any substance with fewer side effects and milder side effects than cannabis AND there certainly has never been any natural or manmade substance with greater positive medical effects.
Anyone reasonable person who makes a tiny effort to learn about the subject would agree to that.

Our govt spent hundreds of millions (billions?) to fund biased studies intended to show how bad cannabis is and they came up empty.
More people have died from drinking too much water than have died from cannabis overdose.

I really don't understand those with hazy vision/ hazy knowledge that seem on a mission to discredit the positive impact of cannabis. D0es cannabis have negative side effects? Yes, but less so than basic water.
Does cannabis have positive effects: Yes, and they are immense, beyond the wildest expectations one could imagine and they are growing every week with new studies----cannabis has now been shown to help sleep apnea so add that to the list of 101+++ diseases.

If one takes a little effort to look at some of the research it is mind boggling how miraculous cannabis is.

Back on topic--moderate cannabis intake for pregnant moms is good for baby and momma.
 

m0sh

Singer Song Writer Stoner
Back on topic--moderate cannabis intake for pregnant moms is good for baby and momma.

In your opinion, if this going to happen, would you say it is better to micro does each day or consume the same way as previously consumed (moderated weekends compare to moderated all week)
 

MinnBobber

Well-Known Member
s'
In your opinion, if this going to happen, would you say it is better to micro does each day or consume the same way as previously consumed (moderated weekends compare to moderated all week)
................................................................................................................................
Probably best to stick with what she is comfortable with now, micro-doses on weekends only. That's going to be a little supplemental boost for her endocannabinoid system. And it's going to be so minimal, so far removed from any kind of problem of using too much.

That's also subject to change as new things arise like: if she starts getting morning sickness, for example. Cannabis has been shown to be a "godsend" for many women who develop morning sickness. For many, it erases the problem. On a side note - cannabis has been used by women for PMS for centuries, well before it even had a name :)

If I were to get pregnant, tough for male senior citizen, and factoring in everything I've "digested" regarding cannabis, I would continue to microdose about 0.015 grams a day. I firmly believe that would be best for me and for the baby as
that's a critical time to have a well-functioning Endocannabinoid System.

After giving birth, I'd continue micro-dosing too as cannabinoids in mother's milk are an important element.

Without getting too scientific, it is really really really unlikely that most people have enough internal (endogenous) cannabinoids to have a properly tuned ECS. Why is that? --- first and foremost, to form endocannabinoids requires a big supply of Omega 3 fats as a building block and that eliminates most of us. Lack of exercise, toxic environment, etc of our modern society is not conducive to building your ECS. Genetics play a part -- for example regarding Autism: the mutant gene linked to Autism has another effect as it also lowers the production of endocannabinoids, resulting in an ECS deficiency.
IMO, there is an epidemic of ECS deficiency out their and that's why I firmly believe its' biggest medical value will be shown to be as a natural medical daily supplement, to help prevent diseases/ not "just" cure them!
 
MinnBobber,
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EverythingsHazy

Well-Known Member
.............................................................................................................
That would be the same science that is alive in Israel and a few other progressive places today that is showing how and why cannabis is truly a miracle plant.
That would be the cannabis modern day pioneers/scientists who are proving how and why cannabis is helping prevent/cure/mitigate hundreds of diseases/medical conditions.

Science and medical professionals never wanted to make cannabis illegal as they knew the benefits so pleeeease don't point to science being against cannabis. If you trust science, then please educate yourself on what science is showing about cannabis!!!!
And that would be: there has arguably never been any substance with fewer side effects and milder side effects than cannabis AND there certainly has never been any natural or manmade substance with greater positive medical effects.
Anyone reasonable person who makes a tiny effort to learn about the subject would agree to that.

Our govt spent hundreds of millions (billions?) to fund biased studies intended to show how bad cannabis is and they came up empty.
More people have died from drinking too much water than have died from cannabis overdose.

I really don't understand those with hazy vision/ hazy knowledge that seem on a mission to discredit the positive impact of cannabis. D0es cannabis have negative side effects? Yes, but less so than basic water.
Does cannabis have positive effects: Yes, and they are immense, beyond the wildest expectations one could imagine and they are growing every week with new studies----cannabis has now been shown to help sleep apnea so add that to the list of 101+++ diseases.

If one takes a little effort to look at some of the research it is mind boggling how miraculous cannabis is.

Back on topic--moderate cannabis intake for pregnant moms is good for baby and momma.
It's statements like "Cannabis has less side effects than basic drinking water" that are just blatantly wrong.

Water is not harmful to anyone, unless you drink a ridiculous quantity without urinating. Drinking water daily has zero negative effects on your body.

Using Cannabis daily has some negative effects. It raises your heart rate which can be dangerous for some people, it has the potential to dull your brain's reward system, making you less likely to enjoy things that would cause you more pleasure had you never used Cannabis, it can make you a bit tired/groggy depending on the person, it can inhibit your ability to drive or do certain things that require quick thinking/fast reflexes, it can irritate your respiratory passages depending on consumption method, it can potentially bring about psychotic breaks and other mental illnesses in certain predisposed individuals, it can have long term negative effects on the brains of those who use it before their brain is fully developed, etc..

Are all of those guaranteed to happen? No. Is it likely that a healthy adult will suffer a serious health problem from using Cannabis? I'd think, probably not. Are they very real negative side effects of Cannabis use? Definitely.

So, while science is showing the potential benefits of Cannabis use, and I'm sure there are many, it is not some miracle plant. It has good effects, and bad effects. Both should be studied and given thorough consideration. So far, there is enough evidence showing the negative potential of Cannabis use by pregnant women or people under the age of 25yrs, and not enough evidence showing how beneficial it is for those demographic groups, to advise against it.
 

hibeam

alpha +
Using Cannabis daily has some negative effects. It raises your heart rate which can be dangerous for some people, it has the potential to dull your brain's reward system, making you less likely to enjoy things that would cause you more pleasure had you never used Cannabis, it can make you a bit tired/groggy depending on the person, it can inhibit your ability to drive or do certain things that require quick thinking/fast reflexes, it can irritate your respiratory passages depending on consumption method, it can potentially bring about psychotic breaks and other mental illnesses in certain predisposed individuals, it can have long term negative effects on the brains of those who use it before their brain is fully developed, etc..

We should be aware of any potential side effects of anything we chose to dose medicinally. Given that, I can help people be aware of any potential benefits by telling a bit of my own story.

Cannabis raises my heart rate to a point in which I feel more energetic, helping me get over otherwise chronic daily fatigue.
I was born with a dull reward system in my brain. I've always needed something to sharpen it and great diet, exercise, and supplements and/or meds have never been enough to really mitigate this problem.

Actually, that raised heart rate thing seems to quicken my otherwise slow reflexes.

Sometimes vaping can bring on a little sneeze attack and then suddenly my nasal passages are clearer than they had been for hours even after trying irrigation.

My family is full of creative off-beat people, some of whom were accused of being mentally ill by those in the family who FEARED the stigma of mental illness the most.

I have had migraines since a young child. I think I lost a lot of quality brain development that could have been saved by some extra attention to my endocannabinoid system.

But that is just me, somebody who never had kids because of the profit driven state of our health care system.
 

MinnBobber

Well-Known Member
Water is not harmful to anyone, unless you drink a ridiculous quantity without urinating. Drinking water daily has zero negative effects on your body.
........................................................................................
Wrong my friend. More people have died from drinking too much water than have died from cannabis (zero). Too much water messes up your electrolytes and people have died from that, none from cannabis and that's a hard cold fact Jack :)
Cannabis overdose level has 2 studies: I think one was consuming 150 lbs at one sitting or 1200 lbs of cannabis so water is more toxic than cannabis.
...........................................................................................................................................

So, while science is showing the potential benefits of Cannabis use, and I'm sure there are many, it is not some miracle plant.
....................................................................................

I'm not sure what qualifies for "miracle plant" for you but are you aware:
- for thousands of families with epileptic kids who have tried every big pharma drug there is with no benefit and huge neg side effects, that cannabis has immediately stopped 99-100% of the seizures = miracle to me
- for families with autistic kids who beat themselves to a pulp and are hospitalized multiple times and then cannabis is given and that self-destruction is stopped and they are like new kids = miracle
- chronic pain patients by the millions whose only choice had been opioids with severe and deadly side effects. Add cannabis and off opioids and pain now manageable = miracle/
Have you seen the video of the dog with severe arthritis that can barely walk. Doggy cannabis edible and Spot is running around with a doggy smile :) Why helpful for dogs? Cuz they, like all vertabrates have an ECS, the key key key to why cannabis is miracle for dozens and dozens of diseases?
- Have you seen the mice where they grow human breast cancer on their exterior and are then given microdoses and the tumor shrinks/ disappears?? ECS in action
- Have you seen the mice research where they age and lose their memory function as they become "senior mice" and are given cannabis and it not only stops the memory loss but reverses it back to "teenage mice" memory levels. Miracle
- Our own Fed Health and Human Svcs Dept has a patent on cannabis helping heal traumatic brain injury AND preventing it. Miracle. Attention NHL and NFL--get your collective admin heads out of your ass and allow it.

The list goes on for pages and pages, all miracles.
Israeli study on PTSD in process. "Spectacular results" = miracle. I testified for adding PTSD to our MMJ program. I was going to read the side effects of what drugs our vets with PTSD are given, but it was 17 electronic pages long and vets testified the drug made them into zombies. ECS in action, cannbis to the rescue. PTSD Vets testified that cannabis works for them and stop making them into criminals for using it.

It makes me very very sad and outraged at the same time when someone can say cannabis is not a miracle plant.
Each one of these diseases helped by cannabis is a bona fide miracle and there are hundreds of them.
What does that equal, a super nova miracle?

States with a medical cannabis program have 24.8% fewer opioid overdose deaths. That would be with a group size of hundreds of thousands for this real world test. That's saving the lives of hundreds and hundreds and hundreds so if that isn't a f#cking miracle to you, then there is no hope of you ever "getting" the true picture of cannabis vs a seemingly unending hazy quest to make cannabis out as having meaningful negatives .

Please, saying cannabis has some good and some bad is so misleading when the good is like 1,000,000 times the bad.
Please do some reading on the ECS and cannabis and learn some more about homeostasis and ECS Deficiency :)

Peace/ out
 

chris 71

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what qualifies for "miracle plant" for you but are you aware:
- for thousands of families with epileptic kids who have tried every big pharma drug there is with no benefit and huge neg side effects, that cannabis has immediately stopped 99-100% of the seizures = miracle to me
- for families with autistic kids who beat themselves to a pulp and are hospitalized multiple times and then cannabis is given and that self-destruction is stopped and they are like new kids = miracle
- chronic pain patients by the millions whose only choice had been opioids with severe and deadly side effects. Add cannabis and off opioids and pain now manageable = miracle/
Have you seen the video of the dog with severe arthritis that can barely walk. Doggy cannabis edible and Spot is running around with a doggy smile :) Why helpful for dogs? Cuz they, like all vertabrates have an ECS, the key key key to why cannabis is miracle for dozens and dozens of diseases?
- Have you seen the mice where they grow human breast cancer on their exterior and are then given microdoses and the tumor shrinks/ disappears?? ECS in action
- Have you seen the mice research where they age and lose their memory function as they become "senior mice" and are given cannabis and it not only stops the memory loss but reverses it back to "teenage mice" memory levels. Miracle
- Our own Fed Health and Human Svcs Dept has a patent on cannabis helping heal traumatic brain injury AND preventing it. Miracle. Attention NHL and NFL--get your collective admin heads out of your ass and allow it.

The list goes on for pages and pages, all miracles.
Israeli study on PTSD in process. "Spectacular results" = miracle. I testified for adding PTSD to our MMJ program. I was going to read the side effects of what drugs our vets with PTSD are given, but it was 17 electronic pages long and vets testified the drug made them into zombies. ECS in action, cannbis to the rescue. PTSD Vets testified that cannabis works for them and stop making them into criminals for using it.

It makes me very very sad and outraged at the same time when someone can say cannabis is not a miracle plant.
Each one of these diseases helped by cannabis is a bona fide miracle and there are hundreds of them.
What does that equal, a super nova miracle?

States with a medical cannabis program have 24.8% fewer opioid overdose deaths. That would be with a group size of hundreds of thousands for this real world test. That's saving the lives of hundreds and hundreds and hundreds so if that isn't a f#cking miracle to you, then there is no hope of you ever "getting" the true picture of cannabis vs a seemingly unending hazy quest to make cannabis out as having meaningful negatives .

Please, saying cannabis has some good and some bad is so misleading when the good is like 1,000,000 times the bad.
Please do some reading on the ECS and cannabis and learn some more about homeostasis and ECS Deficiency :)

Peace/ out

BRAVO !!! MinnBobber BRAVO !!! great post , :clap: a "miracle plant" indeed !! :clap:
 

EverythingsHazy

Well-Known Member
Miracle plant = no negatives. And yes, no matter how many potential benefits you share, the negatives still exist. There are plenty of articles showing the negative capabilities of cannabis, particularly in those with underdeveloped brains (including fetuses).


It’s just not worth arguing with people who think Cannabis is safer than water.
 

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
I rather trust the science that extended our life expectancies from 30 years to >70 years and got us to the moon, than people who thought the world was the center of the universe, that chanting could bring rain, and that prayer healed medical conditions.

The civilizations which actually invented science and astronomy have a rich history of cannabis and other entheogenic plant use. Where do you think they got these concepts from?

And prayer can heal medical conditions. This is well known for many thousands of years in Eastern cultures.

There is a lot more to science than the mainstream studies funded by corporate interest.
 

olivianewtonjohn

Well-Known Member
@m0sh

Evidence posted on first page to support the claim:

First link is a doctor who admits himself that there is not enough data. But he gives the opinion that in a few decades research might come out that points to MJ having positive effects due to its anti-inflammatory properties.

Totally sounds like solid research :lol:

Article #2:
Is about the benefits of breastfeeding and how they might outweigh any risks of cigarette/MJ tainted breast-milk. Interesting thought, 1) this has no relation to the first post, from what I can tell it doesnt even touch on smoking while pregnant, it is about smoking while breastfeeding. Interesting that they want to claim that the positives outweigh the negatives when we dont know what the negatives are. Impressively sloppy "science"

Article #3:

Dr. Dreher (lead researcher of the study):

"We can’t really conclude that there’s necessarily no impact from ganja use prenatally whatsoever, but what can be concluded is that the child who attends basic school regularly, is provided with a variety of stimulating experiences at home, who is encouraged to show mature behavior, has a profoundly better chance of performing at a higher level on the skills measured by the McCarthy whether or not his or her mother consumed ganja during pregnancy"

This is definitely the most interesting article posted, below is the actual paper for anyone who is interested. Reading a summary on a website of a paper can OFTEN lead you astray. One of the reasons why the actual scientists who conduct the research have to correct the news all the time. Sensationalism and sloppy journalism makes the story hot, but it does not make it an accurate representation of the study (or often even evaluates the study). It takes alot of knowledge and expertise to read a study and be able to pinpoint the flaws in it, and its a very time consuming process.

A perfect example would be this story:

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/1st-thc-overdose-death.25699/

Lots of claims by news on "first overdose" but thats not what the actual paper is saying at all. Yet many users jumped to conspiracy theories.

Study #3 link:
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/medical/can-babies.htm


I see alot of large logical leaps in this thread. Sorry science isnt simple. Embryology is far from simple (dont take my word for it, just go read some prenatal vitamin studies yourself). The conclusions drawn by @MinnBobber takes so many leaps it makes my head spin. The science IMO does not support your large conclusions. More research needs to be done to make the statements that your making.


Opposing:

"However, surveys in humans and studies in rodents suggest detrimental effects stemming from prenatal exposure to cannabinoids. Some studies report that children exposed to marijuana during pregnancy have a slower gestational growth rate (Hurd et al., 2005) and lower birth weight (Zuckerman et al., 1989; Hurd et al., 2005), as well as reduced gestational length (Fried et al., 1984; Hurd et al., 2005). In addition, perinatal exposure to THC has been shown to affect brain development, resulting in an alteration in behavioral responses, in both rodents and humans (Bonnin et al., 1995; Vela et al., 1995; de Moraes Barros et al., 2006). Still, very little is known about the effects of perinatal exposure to cannabinoids on the developing immune systems. Perinatal exposure to (6aR,10aR)- 9-(hydroxymethyl)- 6,6-dimethyl- 3-(2-methyloctan-2-yl)- 6a,7,10,10a-tetrahydrobenzo[c]chromen-1-ol (HU-210), a cannabinoid agonist, caused altered distribution of lymphocyte subpopulations in the spleen and peripheral blood of Wistar rats. In addition, there was a reduction in the T helper subpopulation in the spleen and a decrease in the rate of T helper/T cytotoxic cells in peripheral blood (del Arco et al., 2000)."

"Studies from our laboratory and others have shown that THC and other cannabinoids induce apoptosis and alter the proliferative response as well as effector functions of a variety of adult immune cells, such as thymic T cells (McKallip et al., 2002b), splenic B and T cells (McKallip et al., 2002b), natural killer cells (Patrini et al., 1997), macrophages (Sacerdote et al., 2000), and bone marrow-derived dendritic cells (Do et al., 2004), resulting in overall immunosuppression of the host (McKallip et al., 2002b; Do et al., 2004). Such studies suggest that cannabinoids may serve as a double-edged sword, on one hand exhibiting the potential to treat inflammatory diseases, while on the other hand, potentially increasing the susceptibility to cancer and infections (Nagarkatti et al., 2009, 2010; Rieder et al., 2010). In this article, we show that perinatal exposure to THC negatively affects the immune system of the offspring, potentially compromising its response to infections. In particular, there is some evidence linking the use of marijuana to a higher risk of contracting HIV (Roth et al., 2005). However, not much work has been done to study how maternal use of marijuana during pregnancy affects the offspring's risk of getting infected with HIV. "

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3199982/



Does that mean that everything in the last two paragraph are true? No hardly. More research needs to be done. But to act like there is settled science and making a bunch of leaps related to the endocannbinoid system? Idk man seems just as sloppy as the people who say MJ cures cancer (that statement is borderline negligent). Many drugs typically have negative effects on the fetus (like alcohol fetal syndrome), yes the potiential negative effects of MJ on a fetus are likely not as apparent as crack cocaine (otherwise we would know right now), that does not mean there are no negatives. It is 100% possible for it to have less apparent negative effects.
 
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m0sh

Singer Song Writer Stoner
@olivianewtonjohn

My goal here is to promote a discussion on a very interesting and overlooked subject.
Of course there is not enough data and if we follow some members like EverythingsHazy, there will never be enough data, because we are "breaking" the law by even discussing this.
 

olivianewtonjohn

Well-Known Member
@olivianewtonjohn

My goal here is to promote a discussion on a very interesting and overlooked subject.
Of course there is not enough data and if we follow some members like EverythingsHazy, there will never be enough data, because we are "breaking" the law by even discussing this.

I do not see him saying that anywhere, but even if he did that wouldnt negate his other points.
 

m0sh

Singer Song Writer Stoner
Correct, I was actually referring to YaMon.

Anyway, his points are too "general" , as for side and negative affects - in what moderation ?
Can you see any difference between lets say, micro dose of 0.15g in the morning for example compared to a 24/7 blazing galore? clearly these are 2 different cases.

Once again I go back to my own evidence, in terms of sperm count, the results are great, could they be better? I don't know, all I can say is that the doctor response was "overwhelming" or quite frankly, a big positive shock.

BTW, I'm aware that there's a study explaining why the sperm is actually better.
Need to look it up.

We need more research for sure, there's no other way to advance, but it doesn't say what we have no is wrong (or true) - the biggest question should be, how significant is it really? moderate usage for starters.
 

chris 71

Well-Known Member
I just want to say my posting here isnt really about me thinking that cannabis is a great medicine while pregnant especially smoking. Ingesting in other ways i really dont know . i just felt compelled to post after reading minnbobbers post and after reading hazys always ringing the alarm bells posts. I think even jeff sessions or chris christy would change there tune if they had say a grand child that had drvates and wittnessed how it gave the lives back to children like that and miracle plant i think they may aggree. Imagine care for a child like that especialy your own the worry that they may die the helplessness watching them shake and quiver not beinging able to comuicate with them and not being able to help , trying all kinds of meds , they seeing cannabis stop the seizures in ther tracks and change there lives . easy for someone on the internet to start making rules for miricles lol im sure thay would laugh to , laugh with joy that is . And how hazy comes up with the rules on what is a miricle or not as in him saying a miricle cant have negitive lol i dont know why he thinks he makes the rules on what is to be consideeed a miricle lol :shrug:
 
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chris 71,

MinnBobber

Well-Known Member
It’s just not worth arguing with people who think Cannabis is safer than water.
...................................................................................................
Please please please--- read what I said as it is absolutely true that "more people have died from drinking too much water than have died from cannabis (zero)."
That is a cold hard wet fact. I didn't say it was safer, just listed the fact that many more have died from drinking too much water vs ZERO from cannabis. Can't people comprehend that FACT??

http://www.medicaldaily.com/water-intoxication-just-how-much-h2o-does-it-take-kill-person-312958

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-drinking-too-much-water-can-kill/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technology-science/science/drinking-much-water-killed-14-5976264

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...uid-lack-food-caused-brain-fatally-swell.html

I never said water is safer but MORE TOXIC, HAS KILLED many more than canabis (ZERO).
You nay sayers are a tough crowd--- this a is a fact.
Water is a wonderful, necessary , beautiful element BUT more toxic than cannabis.....

And cannabis can't be a "miracle plant" as a miracle plant can have NO negative effects. WOW:bang::sherlock::shit::leaf::nope::mental:

Peace/ out
 
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EverythingsHazy

Well-Known Member
The civilizations which actually invented science and astronomy have a rich history of cannabis and other entheogenic plant use. Where do you think they got these concepts from?

And prayer can heal medical conditions. This is well known for many thousands of years in Eastern cultures.

There is a lot more to science than the mainstream studies funded by corporate interest.
From alchemy, chemistry was born. From astrology, astronomy was born. People of the ancient past were smart, for their time, but that's it. They didn't know more than us. Look at the Romans. They were smart enough to build a system of aqueducts to supply themselves with water, but not smart enough to realize that doing so using lead wasn't the best idea for their health. There's a good reason we have more than doubled our life expediencies.

If prayer heals medical conditions, why is there a medical industry? Millions of people pray for the sick.


...................................................................................................
Please please please--- read what I said as it is absolutely true that "more people have died from drinking too much water than have died from cannabis (zero)."
That is a cold hard wet fact. I didn't say it was safer, just listed the fact that many more have died from drinking too much water vs ZERO from cannabis. Can't people comprehend that FACT??

http://www.medicaldaily.com/water-intoxication-just-how-much-h2o-does-it-take-kill-person-312958

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-drinking-too-much-water-can-kill/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technology-science/science/drinking-much-water-killed-14-5976264

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...uid-lack-food-caused-brain-fatally-swell.html

I never said water is safer but MORE TOXIC, HAS KILLED many more than canabis (ZERO).
You nay sayers are a tough crowd--- this a is a fact.
Water is a wonderful, necessary , beautiful element BUT more toxic than cannabis.....

And cannabis can't be a "miracle plant" as a miracle plant can have NO negative effects. WOW:bang::sherlock::shit::leaf::nope::mental:

Peace/ out
That means nothing. Water doesn’t contain any toxic chemicals. There’s a reason that it’s not a common way to die, and that nobody warns you about it. It’s not going to happen unless you purposely drink a ridiculous amount.

There’s no point in trying to say that Cannabis is safer to consume than water. None. It’s not true, and it
gives the impression that it is absolutely harmless, which it isn’t.

I repeat...death is NOT the only negative side effect that something can have. Giving Cannabis to a human with an underdeveloped brain is irresponsible. Until it is legal and there is ample proof saying that it is perfectly fine, people should be advised against it. Pregnant women aren’t even supposed to eat certain foods because chemicals that are relatively harmless to adults can be detrimental to the development of a fetus. The same goes for mother’s who breastfeed their children.
 
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MegaMan2k

Well-Known Member
It's statements like "Cannabis has less side effects than basic drinking water" that are just blatantly wrong.

Water is not harmful to anyone, unless you drink a ridiculous quantity without urinating. Drinking water daily has zero negative effects on your body.

Using Cannabis daily has some negative effects. It raises your heart rate which can be dangerous for some people, it has the potential to dull your brain's reward system, making you less likely to enjoy things that would cause you more pleasure had you never used Cannabis, it can make you a bit tired/groggy depending on the person, it can inhibit your ability to drive or do certain things that require quick thinking/fast reflexes, it can irritate your respiratory passages depending on consumption method, it can potentially bring about psychotic breaks and other mental illnesses in certain predisposed individuals, it can have long term negative effects on the brains of those who use it before their brain is fully developed, etc..

Are all of those guaranteed to happen? No. Is it likely that a healthy adult will suffer a serious health problem from using Cannabis? I'd think, probably not. Are they very real negative side effects of Cannabis use? Definitely.

So, while science is showing the potential benefits of Cannabis use, and I'm sure there are many, it is not some miracle plant. It has good effects, and bad effects. Both should be studied and given thorough consideration. So far, there is enough evidence showing the negative potential of Cannabis use by pregnant women or people under the age of 25yrs, and not enough evidence showing how beneficial it is for those demographic groups, to advise against it.

indeed you can live till you are 100 years old while having used cannabis your whole life, so i dont get your point, do you plan to be the first person that lives to 200 years or something ? lol.

I have personally seen people at 90 years+ thats been using cannabis all their life since early 20s. and they are way more healthy than others their age thats for sure. The overall amount of pills they have compensated with cannabis over the years have resulted in taking much less toll on their bodies than someone at the same age that would be doing everything according to "science" .
so yea sure if u want to look and feel miserable, go ahead and enjoy

also it sound like u been smokin some bad herb if u getting those symptoms: heart rate/tiredness/groggy/impaired reflexes/thinking issues, or at least if that's the way you feel when you use your cannabis then maybe you should stop using :p ... Because that's definitely not how if feel after using.
 

olivianewtonjohn

Well-Known Member
indeed you can live till you are 100 years old while having used cannabis your whole life, so i dont get your point, do you plan to be the first person that lives to 200 years or something ? lol.

I have personally seen people at 90 years+ thats been using cannabis all their life since early 20s. and they are way more healthy than others their age thats for sure. The overall amount of pills they have compensated with cannabis over the years have resulted in taking much less toll on their bodies than someone at the same age that would be doing everything according to "science" .
so yea sure if u want to look and feel miserable, go ahead and enjoy

also it sound like u been smokin some bad herb if u getting those symptoms: heart rate/tiredness/groggy/impaired reflexes/thinking issues, or at least if that's the way you feel when you use your cannabis then maybe you should stop using :p ... Because that's definitely not how if feel after using.

Anecdotal evidence is great. Someone once told me they didnt believe cigarettes cause cancer because they know old people who have smoked for decades with no ill effects (no that doesnt mean I am saying MJ=cigarettes, just showing why this logic doesnt always pan out).

As cannabis is studied, I have no doubt a bunch of people are going to cling to conspiracy theories rather than challenging the methodology of the research or accepting the research. Why do I think this? Well I am of the opinion that not every study is going to show only positive effects.

Correct, I was actually referring to YaMon.

Anyway, his points are too "general" , as for side and negative affects - in what moderation ?
Can you see any difference between lets say, micro dose of 0.15g in the morning for example compared to a 24/7 blazing galore? clearly these are 2 different cases.

Once again I go back to my own evidence, in terms of sperm count, the results are great, could they be better? I don't know, all I can say is that the doctor response was "overwhelming" or quite frankly, a big positive shock.

BTW, I'm aware that there's a study explaining why the sperm is actually better.
Need to look it up.

We need more research for sure, there's no other way to advance, but it doesn't say what we have no is wrong (or true) - the biggest question should be, how significant is it really? moderate usage for starters.

His points are general because he is reacting to the nonrational posts in this thread that talk about MJ like there cant possibly be ANY negatives to it (in fact go head and toke up because we know very little about the endocanabinoid system and adding MJ must help with pregnancy some how - apparently). Its an amazing plant? Absolutely. I agree with you, dosage and duration are certainly important, there is alot of minutiae to this conversation. In fact dosage and duration are one of the principles of teratology.

Regarding your sperm, I dont see how thats relevant to this discussion. Maybe im misinterpreting the point of this thread?
 
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MinnBobber

Well-Known Member
No one has ever said here that there are no negative side effects to cannabis.
Hundreds of millions $$ have been spent to find the negatives of cannabis use (that was the intent of almost all US studies) and these studies have shown minor minor negatives VS the pages and pages of negatives for almost all big pharma drugs.
Have you heard the TV ads where the negative side effects are longer than the ad info?

Does anyone hear believe that cannabis has even 1/100 of the negative side effects of these drugs? Yet, back on topic, millions of pregnant moms take these pharma drugs, and have their beers and ciggy butts. Maybe folks should focus on the truly toxic choices instead of dissing cannabis??

And we do know a LOT about the ECS, for folks that care to be informed.
Israeli studies, European studies, even now some good work out of US (Stanford Med Ctr) that showed the mutant NL3 gene linked to Autism Spectrum Disorder also reduces one's endocannabinoid production so that's why phytocannabinoids (cannabis) are a miracle for autistic kids and their families--it supplements their ECS. And please don't even try to say cannabis is not a miracle for autism (and epilepsy)..... anecdotal evidence can be very powerful as I've personally talked to dozens and dozens (hundreds?) of such families who have tried every known pharma drug in the world and never any improvement, until cannabis.
Note that autism and epilepsy are such great examples of anecdotal evidence since the symptoms are so "external" and easily observed. Any difference in seizure rates and severity? Child still punching themselves black and blue? Etc.
One mom said it best, "My child is a new person on cannabis".
Note that anecdotal is just in addition to research on it.

We know the ECS runs on cannabinoids, be they internal or external. We know it's the biggest neuro transmitter/receptor system in the body. We know it's the only system where the message flows both directions, so it can provide feedback on the fly, to aid in dialing in homeostasis. We know all vertabrates have an ECS, that's why cannabis is also effective on Spot and Kitty...and why CO sells millions $$ of pet treats... and why owners keep buying as they are not trying to get their pets high, they are trying to get then WELL and keep them well.

ECS is the key to it all and why a "micro-dose a day keeps the Dr away" ;)
 

olivianewtonjohn

Well-Known Member
Does anyone hear believe that cannabis has even 1/100 of the negative side effects of these drugs? Yet, back on topic, millions of pregnant moms take these pharma drugs, and have their beers and ciggy butts. Maybe folks should focus on the truly toxic choices instead of dissing cannabis??

This topic isnt about beer or cigarettes its about marijuana consumption while pregnant.


And we do know a LOT about the ECS, for folks that care to be informed.
Israeli studies, European studies, even now some good work out of US (Stanford Med Ctr) that showed the mutant NL3 gene linked to Autism Spectrum Disorder also reduces one's endocannabinoid production so that's why phytocannabinoids (cannabis) are a miracle for autistic kids and their families--it supplements their ECS. And please don't even try to say cannabis is not a miracle for autism (and epilepsy)..... anecdotal evidence can be very powerful as I've personally talked to dozens and dozens (hundreds?) of such families who have tried every known pharma drug in the world and never any improvement, until cannabis.
Note that autism and epilepsy are such great examples of anecdotal evidence since the symptoms are so "external" and easily observed. Any difference in seizure rates and severity? Child still punching themselves black and blue? Etc.
One mom said it best, "My child is a new person on cannabis".
Note that anecdotal is just in addition to research on it.

We know the ECS runs on cannabinoids, be they internal or external. We know it's the biggest neuro transmitter/receptor system in the body. We know it's the only system where the message flows both directions, so it can provide feedback on the fly, to aid in dialing in homeostasis. We know all vertabrates have an ECS, that's why cannabis is also effective on Spot and Kitty...and why CO sells millions $$ of pet treats... and why owners keep buying as they are not trying to get their pets high, they are trying to get then WELL and keep them well.

ECS is the key to it all and why a "micro-dose a day keeps the Dr away" ;)

We do not know alot about the ECS system. Of the little information we have on the ECS we know even less on how MJ might or might not play a role on a developing fetus. Its a fascinating topic but again you are making huge leaps. Substance X is good for condition B therefore its also good for a developing embryo? The only thing I see related scientifically to the topic in relation to ECS is the role endocabinoids have on trophoblast cells and the attachment of the placenta, which means little on its own but would be interesting to learn more on.

If you read my post above I didnt say acedotal evidence is not evidence. I was merely pointing out the flaw in that logic. Acedotal accounts of MJ helping patients suffering from epilepsy is certainly very interesting and as you pointed out the acedotal evidence is very apparent in those cases. But that does not mean its helpful to a fetus.
 
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EverythingsHazy

Well-Known Member
People on here think that reading a few articles makes them an expert on entire body systems, and the chemistry behind them. That’s not the case. Most people here don’t even enough medical education to be able to properly interpret what they are reading, which leads to lots of jumping to conclusions, and of course all of those conclusions are pro-Cannabis.

This forum is extremely biased (as expected), and so many members search for their information in paces that lead to their biases being strengthened. Selective bias and confirmation bias are running rampant. If you say anything that’s remotely negative about Cannabis, you’ll be attacked and swamped with a bunch of anecdotal articles or big medical terms that not even the posters fully understand.
 
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