C No Ego
Well-Known Member
if the mother is feeling Sick there is something wrong with her ECS... if "stopping morning sickness" happens when ingesting cannabis does that not stop the sickness... ?
Pregnant vaping?
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EverythingsHazy
Well-Known Member
I appreciate you thoroughly providing your reasoning.
Do you know of any studies which have proved that Cannabis use (at varying doses would be great) is able to induce homeostasis in such individuals with Omega-3 deficiencies and/or messed up Omega-3
mega-6 ratios, while not providing an excess of any chemicals?Can you share some studies that show that morning sickness is solely caused by the ECS being in a problematic state? Also can you link any studies that provide sufficient evidence that using Cannabis to stop morning sickness has no possible side effects regarding the development/health of the developing child?
Cannabis use helping get rid of the mother's morning sickness is not sufficient evidence for it's safety for the baby.
-----------------------------------
To sum up my stance...
1. We don't have sufficient reliable research based evidence that Cannabis use while pregnant is safe for the developing baby.
2. Millions of healthy babies are born each year to mothers who have never used Cannabis, which shows that Cannabis use is not necessary for a healthy pregnancy/birth.
2. We shouldn't take unnecessary risks involving babies.
Therefore, people shouldn't use Cannabis while pregnant.
C No Ego
Well-Known Member
I have shown the connection to omega three here... omega three is so important for everyone , especially mothers with child... the phytocannabinods are basically like omega three... I feel like this is my thousandth post on this ... can you even make that cannabis to omega three connection???I appreciate you thoroughly providing your reasoning.
Do you know of any studies which have proved that Cannabis use (at varying doses would be great) is able to induce homeostasis in such individuals with Omega-3 deficiencies and/or messed up Omega-3
Can you share some studies that show that morning sickness is solely caused by the ECS being in a problematic state? Also can you link any studies that provide sufficient evidence that using Cannabis to stop morning sickness has no possible side effects regarding the development/health of the developing child?
Cannabis use helping get rid of the mother's morning sickness is not sufficient evidence for it's safety for the baby.
-----------------------------------
To sum up my stance...
1. We don't have sufficient reliable research based evidence that Cannabis use while pregnant is safe for the developing baby.
2. Millions of healthy babies are born each year to mothers who have never used Cannabis, which shows that Cannabis use is not necessary for a healthy pregnancy/birth.
2. We shouldn't take unnecessary risks involving babies.
Therefore, people shouldn't use Cannabis while pregnant.
EverythingsHazy
Well-Known Member
You have made some claims about Cannabis and Omega-3, but haven't provided any studies which prove that Cannabis doesn't have any other effects that may affect a developing baby.
Statement's like this aren't sufficient evidence for proving that Cannabis use is safe for pregnant women. Glucose is also important for everyone. Our brains use it for fuel. That doesn't mean that anyone, let alone a pregnant woman, should go out of their way to consume sugar.
This claim generalizes a lot, and lacks sufficient backing evidence, too. Yes, Omega-3 is converted into endocannabinoids, but that doesn't mean that it is identical to consuming Cannabis. There are differences, with one of the most noticeable being the fact that Omega-3 doesn't get you high.
You probably feel this way, because what you are repeating is not a satisfactory counter-argument against the position that pregnant women should abstain from consuming Cannabis, until there is enough research done, to say, without much doubt, that there will be no negative effects on the developing baby.
Even if you were to prove that Cannabis consumption has a specific beneficial effect on either the mother or child, you would still need to prove that it does not have any negative effects on the child, in order to have a legitimate claim that it is safe for the baby, which is the only way that it would be an acceptable practice.
C No Ego
Well-Known Member
omega three makes me High... LD50 for THC is 50,000 to 1 ... the only researh I hav ebeen able to find only points to that lipid metabolism that as you state - shows how n-3 becomes a cannabinoid... well the cannabis plant creates them already structured... and I have been treating this info like all the other cannabis info where it is instantly bad- well fuck that... the last article @ least used biochemistry to look @ THC effects... more of those and we have something solid instead of hot headed people dictating other [people via politics ( it is illegal therefore you must avoid at all costs type thinking)...
so far we know with 100% certainty that the cannabis plant adds lipophilic / terpenophenolic fatty acid type compounds into your anatomy... they are so important for our bodies and developing babies will make cells with lipids too
and more to the point of this issue- I would recommend a mother to juice or eat raw cannabis for support as opposed to the more psychoactive decraboxylated compounds just because raw phytocannabinoid better mimics our endo versions via those carboxylic acids adhered to the raw phytocannabinoid... any raw cannabis can be eaten / juiced like that regardless THC amount ETC
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EverythingsHazy
Well-Known Member
That's the thing. Current research has shown that Cannabis can be beneficial for our bodies, in certain ways, but it has yet to provide sufficient evidence that Cannabis consumption while pregnant is safe for the fetus.
Given the fact that there are millions of healthy births, every year, to mothers who have never consumed any form of Cannabis, why take the risk, before doing more research?
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
Marijuana use while pregnant boosts risk of children's sleep problems
As many as 7% of moms-to-be use marijuana while pregnant, and that number is rising fast as more use it to quell morning sickness. But new research suggests such use could have a lasting impact on the fetal brain, influencing children's sleep for as much as a decade.
As many as 7% of moms-to-be use marijuana while pregnant, and that number is rising fast as more use it to quell morning sickness. But new research suggests such use could have a lasting impact on the fetal brain, influencing children's sleep for as much as a decade.
C No Ego
Well-Known Member
more relaxed Kids who sleep well at night = oh the Horrors ! that article is picking at to many straws to count ... the mom had THC ten years ago and that dictates her and the babies life copmpletlety ! what about the 1980 research where the kids' whose moms smoked ( Jamaicans) and it was documented not guessed at and the kids were more healthy than the other kids whose moms did not smoke cannabis ( or did not admit it, or we just did not know who smoked )? 1980 Jamaican cannabis smoke study https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffcm&q=1980+Jamaican+cannabis+smoke+study&atb=v165-1&ia=web
the only thing they can say with certainty is that THC is a lipid that can be passed to the offspring... well so it omega three , it passes too as do all biologically available lipids in nature
the only thing they can say with certainty is that THC is a lipid that can be passed to the offspring... well so it omega three , it passes too as do all biologically available lipids in nature
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
To Justify Using Weed, Some Pregnant Women Cling to an Old and Dubious Study
“The ‘Jamaica study’ continues to garner fame despite being one small study in a relatively large pool of evidence,” said Torri Metz, associate professor of maternal fetal medicine at University of Utah Health. “Anybody could find a single study that sort of supports what they would like to say, but really, we need to look at all of the studies that are out there.”
“The ‘Jamaica study’ continues to garner fame despite being one small study in a relatively large pool of evidence,” said Torri Metz, associate professor of maternal fetal medicine at University of Utah Health. “Anybody could find a single study that sort of supports what they would like to say, but really, we need to look at all of the studies that are out there.”
MinnBobber
Well-Known Member
The thing I like about the Jamaica study is that if babies of moms who smoked big ass blunts were same ( or slightly better) than abstainers, moms who vape or take edibles in micro doses (or moderate) are certainly in a good place.
This is coupled with the prime benefit of cannabis moderate use: the vast majority of people have Endocannabinoid Deficiency. It is a basic chemical equation where Omega3 are needed to make your endogenous cannabinoids, necessary for a proper functioning ECS.
Not enough Onega 3 and it is impossible to have a proper running ECS.
In addition, the Omega 3 must be in a proper ratio to Omega6. A best ratio of Omega6: Omega3 is 1:1 or 2:1.
Most US diet is 15:1 or 20:1.
A recent study revealed how Omega 3 supplements don’t even work with such extreme Omega 6s. The 6s kind of bury/ overwhelm the system, even when taking
Omega3 supplements.
Bottom line for me is that of moms and babies critically need moderate cannabis supplements.
Smoking? Absolutely not!
Heavy cannabis use? No way
The benefit:negative ratio is just so gigantic with moderate use.
archangelz001
FIRE!!
When I see researchers who claim expertise dismiss a study because cannabis has much higher THC levels now I have to wonder if after drinking 12ounces of a 3.2% alcohol beer they would consume 12 ounces of a 14% sparkling wine and think it a fair comparison. Back in the 60's I could smoke a whole 1/2 gram joint. Now I get just as high on 2-3 hits, or by vaping 0.1gm.
C No Ego
Well-Known Member
cannabis is dosage dependent . amounts matter ( literally solid matter) . only dumd stupid people blame potent cannabis as being to strong as cannot figure out how to dose correctly
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
While I generally agree with you, in theory, that we titrate our doses; there are reasonable studies out there that point to issues BECAUSE of the higher doses. It makes sense. Even if we're going to stop when we get to where we want, a vapor hit every 10 minutes from a low THC flower is going to bring us just to that level while a bong rips one right after another of high THC flower is probably going to result in a higher blood level every time. So, in your comparison, give people 15 minutes to get where they want with 12 ounces of 3.2% or with tequila shooters and see what the final blood alcohol levels are. In other words, potency is a problem. It's just not that big a problem if one uses in a reasonable and relaxed manner. (And, avoids the edible mistake.)
One of the underlying researchers who claim expertise (In this case, a professor of psychiatry and pediatrics and director of the Center for the Study of Children at Risk at Brown University.) is one who thinks the difference in potency is important. He presents (Well, the article doesn't.) no evidence of the blood levels in the newborns back then. His dismissal based solely on potency between the time of the study and today and relates how, modernly, babies are using more at or around birth.
There’s little data on how this might impact fetal exposure, but a 2015 abstract described an increase in the concentration of THCA (a THC metabolite) measured in the first bowel movements of Colorado newborns from 213 nanograms per gram (ng/g) in 2012 to 361 ng/g in 2014.
But, why do you think the main complaints in the linked article had to do with potency? I think the main complaint was that it had a small sample size (24 exposed 20 unexposed) and:
Though the cannabis-exposed babies scored higher on some measures in her study, it didn’t show that cannabis caused these better scores. In fact, the mothers who used the most cannabis also had more education, more financial independence, and fewer other children to care for, which likely allowed them to provide a more nourishing environment for their newborns.
archangelz001
FIRE!!
Glad you agree. When I was young I liked to get as high as possible (sometimes.) Now I medicate to effect.
Small sample size is a legitimate critique, as is a lack of controlling variables like education, finances, etc.
P.S. THCa isn't a metabolite, it's the raw undecarboxylated precursor to THC.
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
I saw that too. I suspect it was a problem with the author of the article's knowledge and not the knowledge of the study's author.
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
Another brick in the wall of information that should discourage use in pregnancy.
Cannabis use in pregnancy linked to a greater risk of autism
The abstract:
Maternal cannabis use in pregnancy and child neurodevelopmental outcomes
Cannabis use in pregnancy has increased1,2, and many women continue to use it throughout pregnancy3. With the legalization of recreational cannabis in many jurisdictions, there is concern about potentially adverse childhood outcomes related to prenatal exposure4. Using the provincial birth registry containing information on cannabis use during pregnancy, we perform a retrospective analysis of all live births in Ontario, Canada, between 1 April 2007 and 31 March 2012. We link pregnancy and birth data to provincial health administrative databases to ascertain child neurodevelopmental outcomes. We use matching techniques to control for confounding and Cox proportional hazards regression models to examine associations between prenatal cannabis use and child neurodevelopment. We find an association between maternal cannabis use in pregnancy and the incidence of autism spectrum disorder in the offspring. The incidence of autism spectrum disorder diagnosis was 4.00 per 1,000 person-years among children with exposure compared to 2.42 among unexposed children, and the fully adjusted hazard ratio was 1.51 (95% confidence interval: 1.17–1.96) in the matched cohort. The incidence of intellectual disability and learning disorders was higher among offspring of mothers who use cannabis in pregnancy, although less statistically robust. We emphasize a cautious interpretation of these findings given the likelihood of residual confounding.
Cannabis use in pregnancy linked to a greater risk of autism
The abstract:
Maternal cannabis use in pregnancy and child neurodevelopmental outcomes
Cannabis use in pregnancy has increased1,2, and many women continue to use it throughout pregnancy3. With the legalization of recreational cannabis in many jurisdictions, there is concern about potentially adverse childhood outcomes related to prenatal exposure4. Using the provincial birth registry containing information on cannabis use during pregnancy, we perform a retrospective analysis of all live births in Ontario, Canada, between 1 April 2007 and 31 March 2012. We link pregnancy and birth data to provincial health administrative databases to ascertain child neurodevelopmental outcomes. We use matching techniques to control for confounding and Cox proportional hazards regression models to examine associations between prenatal cannabis use and child neurodevelopment. We find an association between maternal cannabis use in pregnancy and the incidence of autism spectrum disorder in the offspring. The incidence of autism spectrum disorder diagnosis was 4.00 per 1,000 person-years among children with exposure compared to 2.42 among unexposed children, and the fully adjusted hazard ratio was 1.51 (95% confidence interval: 1.17–1.96) in the matched cohort. The incidence of intellectual disability and learning disorders was higher among offspring of mothers who use cannabis in pregnancy, although less statistically robust. We emphasize a cautious interpretation of these findings given the likelihood of residual confounding.
C No Ego
Well-Known Member
and on another note, kids with autism benefit from phytocannabinoid therapies that are made to connect more neurons , and to adjust the out of control neuronal signaling
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
I remember the study supporting use in autism. I don't much remember the mechanism thought to create the effect. I wonder if they are related? Perhaps a child who, in the womb, gets dosed so does not make their own phytocannabinoids and their body misses some guidepost or zone where the learning happens so will always need supplementation to remediate some of the harms.
C No Ego
Well-Known Member
as it is diet related the ingestion of cannabis lipids/terpenes will benefit the circulating, free form lipids' action in the body of the mother and child ... the biological action is similar to essential fatty acids being consumed ... the phytocannabinoids are essential fatty acyl meroterpinoids is the difference . there are too essential fatty acids in the seeds of the pl;ant but the acyls are more formed signaling metabolites with more signaling capability , more expression @ the on set ...
it is like this , essential fatty acids with other Epoxides and Esters ETC ....make up the endocannabinoid after the cell forms it from the Arachidonic acid pre cursor metabolites. a fatty acyl phytocannabinoid is already expressing before the cell forms the endocananbinoid ...
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
All that causes autism?
C No Ego
Well-Known Member
severe endocannabinoid deficiencies causes that . basically the America Diet
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
Then, why do mothers who use cannabis have children twice as likely to be autistic? It seems, by your theory, there should be less-not more autistic kids in moms who use.
C No Ego
Well-Known Member
asking people if they consumed illegal plants and then poking proding them with testing instruments to then detemrine outcomes based from people who did not admit to it ... Um, Science ?
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
It is a lot closer than anywhere that claims autism is caused by not enough cannabis.
C No Ego
Well-Known Member
the molecuels in the plant help pepole with that condition ... not sure how else to say it. the condition is a lack of signaling lipids that maintain the homeostasis required to prevent the condition to begin with