Phase3 Vaporizers
- Thread starter invertedisdead
- Start date
Hello friends,
Minor setback - I was looking over my brand new DC coil and noticed that it now has an additional wrap compared to the 16MM DC coil I used to size these parts; I’m going to have to adjust the design to compensate for this. Otherwise the new coil could hit the bowl and it won’t seal properly.
Apologies for the delays!
Minor setback - I was looking over my brand new DC coil and noticed that it now has an additional wrap compared to the 16MM DC coil I used to size these parts; I’m going to have to adjust the design to compensate for this. Otherwise the new coil could hit the bowl and it won’t seal properly.
Apologies for the delays!
madhockeydad
Art is beauty
That’s too bad. It’s amazing the journey is typically filled with the most unpredictable path. Isn’t the saying, “No plan survives contact with reality” - true!!?? Good luck finding a solution.
Hopefully you didn't get the second prototype ordered yet!
Thick Vape
In the Ballpark
I also have a coil that is a bit too long for my project. Do you think it is possible to just shorten it with a saw/clippers/etc. ?
I am ignorant about how they function, so might be a silly idea.
Abysmal Vapor
Supersniffer 2000 - robot fart detection device
It is a bad idea. Coils are tubes filled with Mg0 to prevent the short with the kanthal wire in the core,which is the actually heating element. Cutting the coil wont end well in other words.I also have a coil that is a bit too long for my project. Do you think it is possible to just shorten it with a saw/clippers/etc. ?
I am ignorant about how they function, so might be a silly idea.
Thick Vape
In the Ballpark
Thanks for the explanation!
madhockeydad
Art is beauty
Good morning. How are things? Any new updates or still waiting for a new sample with more space for the extra wrap? Can you tell I'm excited. Lovin' the 1.7.
Apologies for the delayed reply, I’ve been 3D modeling a bunch of ideas for referencing later.
That’s sweet to hear you’re enjoying the 1.7, I actually modeled a 1.8 housing just for fun. Not sure I’ll ever make any, but I did request a quote just to see. I didn’t get the opportunity to sell very many 1.7’s even though I put a lot of effort into optimizing that platform. 1.8 would be kind of cool as it would be a real genuine take at what I’ve been originally working towards since I started this thread, but there’s just so many ball vapes out now that it seems fairly unlikely that I would pursue. That said, there are still some unique things about the 1.8 that make it compelling to me. Maybe I might at least build one for myself to play with
Still waiting for new InV2 samples, the last few weeks have been pretty busy so I just didn’t have as much time to revise it as quickly as I wanted to after learning about the change in coil height. That was sort of a big change as it was already optimized for the other size, and getting back access to the appropriate software has been a challenge in itself as it doesn’t run on my computer. So all those things have added more delays than I was anticipating.
Also the last sample parts had some finish flaws on the top plane, and when I confronted the manufacturer they just basically ghosted me. Spent most of my budget for the project expecting those parts to be sellable, now things are pretty tight as I keep funding these designs, but never really get to sell anything from being a perfectionist about stuff.
So still chipping away at the dream, but always dealing with alternate forces trying to halt progress.
I’ll message you a rendering of the 1.8 housing if you want to check it out.
Well after a lot of deliberation I’m thinking I may actually do a small run of 1.8 housings. Due to a recent ambulance bill I don’t have the funds to finish InV2 right now. Also, after reflection I seem to have displaced the fact that the entire niche point of this vape, and my ruby ball vape concept in general was to get away from metallic heating. I’m feeling like I need to follow my gut and get back to my roots so I can finish this project properly. Rather than overcome the manufacturing hurdles, I’ve fallen into the same trap of everyone else wanting to just go for what’s easier to produce, and I’m not that stoked about it.
After testing most of the other materials, compared to glass, they all dump considerable heat into the bowl. My glass designs are the only ones that truly provide pure convection. And they are the most efficient with the lowest operating temperature.
IMHO this is likely where much of the perceived flavor differences between glass vs other materials comes from - the additional conduction.
InV1.8 will be made from zirconia ceramic which is thermally the closest material to glass possible, but with much increased durability to reliably handle the coil contraction.
Zirconia is biocompatible and used in various implants from teeth to hips to knees. It’s very much “medical grade” as anything.
Form factor is the same as InV2 but hollowed out for the 1.7 inspired bead chamber
New slotted air inlets for a higher flow rate to match the numbers gained from testing my SandCastle Vapor Wand.
Pricing will be similar/on par with the projected pricing of InV2, as Zirconia is a very expensive base material from its unusually high density, (200% denser than glass, ~50% more dense than titanium) as well as expensive to machine as diamond tools are required. But it is truly the ideal material for this job for its glass-like performance with steel-like strength.
If you’re interested in joining the limited run please reach out via PM.
Thanks all and have a great weekend
After testing most of the other materials, compared to glass, they all dump considerable heat into the bowl. My glass designs are the only ones that truly provide pure convection. And they are the most efficient with the lowest operating temperature.
IMHO this is likely where much of the perceived flavor differences between glass vs other materials comes from - the additional conduction.
InV1.8 will be made from zirconia ceramic which is thermally the closest material to glass possible, but with much increased durability to reliably handle the coil contraction.
Zirconia is biocompatible and used in various implants from teeth to hips to knees. It’s very much “medical grade” as anything.
Form factor is the same as InV2 but hollowed out for the 1.7 inspired bead chamber
New slotted air inlets for a higher flow rate to match the numbers gained from testing my SandCastle Vapor Wand.
Pricing will be similar/on par with the projected pricing of InV2, as Zirconia is a very expensive base material from its unusually high density, (200% denser than glass, ~50% more dense than titanium) as well as expensive to machine as diamond tools are required. But it is truly the ideal material for this job for its glass-like performance with steel-like strength.
If you’re interested in joining the limited run please reach out via PM.
Thanks all and have a great weekend
coolbreeze
Well-Known Member
I think I like this direction, to be honest. Airflow, purity, durability.Well after a lot of deliberation I’m thinking I may actually do a small run of 1.8 housings. Due to a recent ambulance bill I don’t have the funds to finish InV2 right now. Also, after reflection I seem to have displaced the fact that the entire niche point of this vape, and my ruby ball vape concept in general was to get away from metallic heating. I’m feeling like I need to follow my gut and get back to my roots so I can finish this project properly. Rather than overcome the manufacturing hurdles, I’ve fallen into the same trap of everyone else wanting to just go for what’s easier to produce, and I’m not that stoked about it.
After testing most of the other materials, compared to glass, they all dump considerable heat into the bowl. My glass designs are the only ones that truly provide pure convection. And they are the most efficient with the lowest operating temperature.
IMHO this is likely where much of the perceived flavor differences between glass vs other materials comes from - the additional conduction.
InV1.8 will be made from zirconia ceramic which is thermally the closest material to glass possible, but with much increased durability to reliably handle the coil contraction.
Zirconia is biocompatible and used in various implants from teeth to hips to knees. It’s very much “medical grade” as anything.
Form factor is the same as InV2 but hollowed out for the 1.7 inspired bead chamber
New slotted air inlets for a higher flow rate to match the numbers gained from testing my SandCastle Vapor Wand.
Pricing will be similar/on par with the projected pricing of InV2, as Zirconia is a very expensive base material from its unusually high density, (200% denser than glass, ~50% more dense than titanium) as well as expensive to machine as diamond tools are required. But it is truly the ideal material for this job for its glass-like performance with steel-like strength.
If you’re interested in joining the limited run please reach out via PM.
Thanks all and have a great weekend
Thick Vape
In the Ballpark
Sounds goodWell after a lot of deliberation I’m thinking I may actually do a small run of 1.8 housings. Due to a recent ambulance bill I don’t have the funds to finish InV2 right now. Also, after reflection I seem to have displaced the fact that the entire niche point of this vape, and my ruby ball vape concept in general was to get away from metallic heating. I’m feeling like I need to follow my gut and get back to my roots so I can finish this project properly. Rather than overcome the manufacturing hurdles, I’ve fallen into the same trap of everyone else wanting to just go for what’s easier to produce, and I’m not that stoked about it.
After testing most of the other materials, compared to glass, they all dump considerable heat into the bowl. My glass designs are the only ones that truly provide pure convection. And they are the most efficient with the lowest operating temperature.
IMHO this is likely where much of the perceived flavor differences between glass vs other materials comes from - the additional conduction.
InV1.8 will be made from zirconia ceramic which is thermally the closest material to glass possible, but with much increased durability to reliably handle the coil contraction.
Zirconia is biocompatible and used in various implants from teeth to hips to knees. It’s very much “medical grade” as anything.
Form factor is the same as InV2 but hollowed out for the 1.7 inspired bead chamber
New slotted air inlets for a higher flow rate to match the numbers gained from testing my SandCastle Vapor Wand.
Pricing will be similar/on par with the projected pricing of InV2, as Zirconia is a very expensive base material from its unusually high density, (200% denser than glass, ~50% more dense than titanium) as well as expensive to machine as diamond tools are required. But it is truly the ideal material for this job for its glass-like performance with steel-like strength.
If you’re interested in joining the limited run please reach out via PM.
Thanks all and have a great weekend
and then small raw diamonds as balls for ultimate ball performance. No need for the cut jewellery ones.
I saw @invertedisdead made a glass ball vaporiser thread somewhere. I will wander on that route for a while I guess, when I find it again.
Vaporware
Well-Known Member
I’m glad you posted that update! I already had this in a draft post:
I’m interested to hear how the zirconia version differs from the quartz version, but I’d been wanting to use zirconia in some of my own ideas too and I think it will be a great alternative to dealing with the shops that haven’t been able to deliver 1.7s the way you wanted them.
On the other project though:
Sorry about yet another manufacturer not getting your parts right…if they are just cosmetic issues though, you might be able to find someone to polish them up at a reasonable price.
On the coil height front, as long as there are a decent amount of coils out there that are the right height you could still sell them to people who have the right coils.
I still think this sounds like a good design that should work well for a lot of people, but the 1.7/1.8 is what I’m really here for.
there are still some unique things about the 1.8 that make it compelling to me. Maybe I might at least build one for myself to play with
I’m interested to hear how the zirconia version differs from the quartz version, but I’d been wanting to use zirconia in some of my own ideas too and I think it will be a great alternative to dealing with the shops that haven’t been able to deliver 1.7s the way you wanted them.
On the other project though:
Sorry about yet another manufacturer not getting your parts right…if they are just cosmetic issues though, you might be able to find someone to polish them up at a reasonable price.
On the coil height front, as long as there are a decent amount of coils out there that are the right height you could still sell them to people who have the right coils.
I still think this sounds like a good design that should work well for a lot of people, but the 1.7/1.8 is what I’m really here for.
710yota
Have you heard about the boom on Mizar 5?
Nothing to do with your amazing plant matter vaporization creation but seeing ambulance bills in your last post has me hoping your doing okay @invertedisdead. Your the real star of this thread!
I’m totally with you, that’s exactly what I want in an “artisan vape” and that’s largely why I started this ruby ball vape project in the first place!
As far as I know this is one of the few materials that hasn’t been used in a ball vape yet. I think it makes the most sense for my housing, coming from a boro glass and quartz background.
The overall feedback on 1.7 was great, so this one should improve on the last few things that I thought could use dialing in.
Sounds good
and then small raw diamonds as balls for ultimate ball performance. No need for the cut jewellery ones.
I saw @invertedisdead made a glass ball vaporiser thread somewhere. I will wander on that route for a while I guess, when I find it again.
I would think this would be the thread!
I never really did glass balls though, I made my first proof of concept with ruby beads in 2019 as I had met the guy who came up with the “ruby terp pearl” idea and then had a source for them to experiment with.
I admit I haven’t tried diamonds yet, but it would be interesting/fun to see!!!
I’m glad you posted that update! I already had this in a draft post:
I’m interested to hear how the zirconia version differs from the quartz version, but I’d been wanting to use zirconia in some of my own ideas too and I think it will be a great alternative to dealing with the shops that haven’t been able to deliver 1.7s the way you wanted them.
On the other project though:
Sorry about yet another manufacturer not getting your parts right…if they are just cosmetic issues though, you might be able to find someone to polish them up at a reasonable price.
On the coil height front, as long as there are a decent amount of coils out there that are the right height you could still sell them to people who have the right coils.
I still think this sounds like a good design that should work well for a lot of people, but the 1.7/1.8 is what I’m really here for.
Right on!! First of all, I really appreciate you supporting the vision after all this time!
I agree, I’m thinking this is the change I need to make that will make these rock solid. It shows a lot of promise as a material and has been demonstrably used for years in the industry already on the Da Vinci and some other stuff.
As for InV2, it shows a lot of great potential, but due to additional variables it just needs more development for me to truly feel comfortable releasing it. I guess that’s not super surprising considering I waited til 1.7 to start selling my ball vape
As this project here has already spanned multiple generations of iterations, I’m more confident in the changes I’m making here. I’ll get back to InV2 eventually, but I realized if I could finish this project and feel like it’s truly completed, in a way that’s actually obtainable, then I could maybe move on to some non-desktop stuff I’d still really like to explore.
Regarding the coil height, that’s how I originally felt as well as there’s surely plenty of older coils floating around, but I feel like having a new product that isn’t compatible with the current batch of coils would be a mistake on my part, and probably lead to some customer service inquiries that would be better off nipped in the bud.
Due to the way my designs concentrate the power density into a compact nature, the size change will still be small enough that older 16MM coils will still be able to power it fine.
That’s what I’m talking about!!
Always love hearing testimonials on the 1.7 as it was definitely my favorite vape yet.
Yeah it totally makes sense to go all in and just finish this one on the same foot I started on, and make it as slamming as I possibly can!
Nothing to do with your amazing plant matter vaporization creation but seeing ambulance bills in your last post has me hoping your doing okay @invertedisdead. Your the real star of this thread!
I appreciate the genuine sincerity as always my friend!
I’m fine but my mom passed out a few weeks back and we called 9-1-1; luckily she didn’t actually have to leave on an ambulance, but the city still billed hundreds of dollars for the incident. Its just sad cause it makes people apprehensive to even use the services Since she’s going through medical treatment the bills are already through the roof as-is, so I’m just trying to help where and when I can.
Really appreciate everyone who reached out, I haven’t read any messages yet as I spent most of the weekend with family but I hope to get back to everyone tomorrow.
Thanks to everyone following along
madhockeydad
Art is beauty
I'm excited to try the 1.8. 1.7 rocks. Right on. Be well.
Just so we're all on the same page, these parts would be bright shiny white, not actually purple like my 3D model. Although purple would still be really cool 
Wanted to address a few questions I received here just to provide some more information.
1. Have you used or seen Zirconia used as a heater? At the temps we’re using is it durable and safe to inhale through?
I have not seen it used nor used it personally in a heater yet, the rated max temperatures are around 1500-1900 degrees celsius, which is many times the safety factor of our operating temperatures. Based on InV1.7 metrics it wouldn't be exposed to much over 500 degrees Fahrenheit (~260C)
Zirconia has seen notable use in ball valves for all kinds of chemical / fluid processing that is too harsh for metals.
Zirconia is the least brittle of any technical ceramic. It's about 400% tougher than alumina ceramic, which is what other ceramic ball vapes are made of.
"The most significant difference between these two materials is the price. Cost for zirconia is more than doubled for even the best alumina material. One of the reasons is the cost of the raw material. Compared with Zr, Al is far more abundant in the crust and it’s much cheaper. On the other hand, Yttrium oxide, widely used as stabilizer for Zirconia, is a rare earth element with limited source.
However, it is the cost for shaping zirconia that contributes the major part. Density of zirconia is much higher than alumina and wear resistance of zirconia is far better than alumina. To ground down same thicknesses for zirconia takes almost 10x more time than alumina and consume more diamond tools. Also, since the thermal shock resistance for zirconia is poor and requires higher sintering temperature, the sintering process also cost more than alumina."
This is why the pricing for this vape is what it is, as it's simply more expensive to make.
Also all the other ceramic ball vapes are molded, so none of their pricing is based on CNC machining anyways.
2. I still haven’t tried a ball vape, but I’ve heard both that the flavor can be compromised (maybe for people pushing the envelope on extraction speed?) and that it can be very good. I believe that the 1.7 has great reviews on flavor, but I don’t know what temps they’re running or what they’re comparing it to.
Many of the 1.7 owners have most of the good stuff on the market, so maybe some will chime in on that regard.
3. Have you managed to get all of the metal out of the heater, or is there still a screen? That’s not a dealbreaker, but especially if you’re going for purity and the high end of the market I think a pure zirconia/ruby heater would be a good selling point.
There's still one metal screen on the underside.
There's a recessed groove for the half inch screen to lock into and securely fasten the beads. It should be more secure than any of the other housings I've done yet.
It would be great to get rid of the bottom screen, but I don't really want to go for a threaded connection as I feel they tend to promote an un-optimized coil contact, which stagnates heat transfer. Plus the added mass of a fully enclosed housing requires higher operating temperatures to achieve the same performance. Also, a threaded shroud would further increase the price which might scare some people
As for one without the metal screen - I wouldn't be that surprised if we see one in a few weeks from one of my many inspired competitors
4. Is there a good way to secure it to the coil? The friction fit of the 1.7 worried me a little…with the more precise machining going on with the new parts I think it should be possible to lock things in place.
Yes, I call it COIL-LOK technology.
But it's still theoretical. Will only truly know more after application.
Also unlike 1.7 it can't fall out from the bottom of the coil since the top of the housing is larger than the bottom, just like InV1-1.5
5. What's the story with the bowl? Off the shelf or designed specifically for the heater?
The end is tapered to fit into any 14/20 or 14/23 lab glass adapter.
The standard kit would come with a basic glass adapter, but I've also got a drawing for a fixed screen/full glass bowl I'd like to get quoted on, which could potentially show up if there's enough interest in the kit, as that would largely dictate the pricing of the bowl.
Speaking of interest, do reach out if you're interested in supporting the quest.
Pricing for the diamond milled and polished white zirconia ceramic housing filled with beads and basic glass bowl is $330
Fitted with a new 16MM Disorderly Conduction coil is $420
Also I was asked if this is truly going to be a one-off run or a continual release. It definitely depends on the interest, if just putting a small run together takes too much effort, it will just be one and done and I'll move on to something else. If there's a lot of interest, then more effort would go into making them more available.
Wanted to address a few questions I received here just to provide some more information.
1. Have you used or seen Zirconia used as a heater? At the temps we’re using is it durable and safe to inhale through?
I have not seen it used nor used it personally in a heater yet, the rated max temperatures are around 1500-1900 degrees celsius, which is many times the safety factor of our operating temperatures. Based on InV1.7 metrics it wouldn't be exposed to much over 500 degrees Fahrenheit (~260C)
Zirconia has seen notable use in ball valves for all kinds of chemical / fluid processing that is too harsh for metals.
Zirconia is the least brittle of any technical ceramic. It's about 400% tougher than alumina ceramic, which is what other ceramic ball vapes are made of.
"The most significant difference between these two materials is the price. Cost for zirconia is more than doubled for even the best alumina material. One of the reasons is the cost of the raw material. Compared with Zr, Al is far more abundant in the crust and it’s much cheaper. On the other hand, Yttrium oxide, widely used as stabilizer for Zirconia, is a rare earth element with limited source.
However, it is the cost for shaping zirconia that contributes the major part. Density of zirconia is much higher than alumina and wear resistance of zirconia is far better than alumina. To ground down same thicknesses for zirconia takes almost 10x more time than alumina and consume more diamond tools. Also, since the thermal shock resistance for zirconia is poor and requires higher sintering temperature, the sintering process also cost more than alumina."
What's the Differences Between Alumina and Zirconia?
Both of alumina and zirconia are oxide material and could be sintered without vacuum, they share a lot in manufacturing equipment and have similar appearance.
www.samaterials.com
This is why the pricing for this vape is what it is, as it's simply more expensive to make.
Also all the other ceramic ball vapes are molded, so none of their pricing is based on CNC machining anyways.
2. I still haven’t tried a ball vape, but I’ve heard both that the flavor can be compromised (maybe for people pushing the envelope on extraction speed?) and that it can be very good. I believe that the 1.7 has great reviews on flavor, but I don’t know what temps they’re running or what they’re comparing it to.
Many of the 1.7 owners have most of the good stuff on the market, so maybe some will chime in on that regard.
3. Have you managed to get all of the metal out of the heater, or is there still a screen? That’s not a dealbreaker, but especially if you’re going for purity and the high end of the market I think a pure zirconia/ruby heater would be a good selling point.
There's still one metal screen on the underside.
There's a recessed groove for the half inch screen to lock into and securely fasten the beads. It should be more secure than any of the other housings I've done yet.
It would be great to get rid of the bottom screen, but I don't really want to go for a threaded connection as I feel they tend to promote an un-optimized coil contact, which stagnates heat transfer. Plus the added mass of a fully enclosed housing requires higher operating temperatures to achieve the same performance. Also, a threaded shroud would further increase the price which might scare some people
As for one without the metal screen - I wouldn't be that surprised if we see one in a few weeks from one of my many inspired competitors
4. Is there a good way to secure it to the coil? The friction fit of the 1.7 worried me a little…with the more precise machining going on with the new parts I think it should be possible to lock things in place.
Yes, I call it COIL-LOK technology.
But it's still theoretical. Will only truly know more after application.
Also unlike 1.7 it can't fall out from the bottom of the coil since the top of the housing is larger than the bottom, just like InV1-1.5
5. What's the story with the bowl? Off the shelf or designed specifically for the heater?
The end is tapered to fit into any 14/20 or 14/23 lab glass adapter.
The standard kit would come with a basic glass adapter, but I've also got a drawing for a fixed screen/full glass bowl I'd like to get quoted on, which could potentially show up if there's enough interest in the kit, as that would largely dictate the pricing of the bowl.
Speaking of interest, do reach out if you're interested in supporting the quest.
Pricing for the diamond milled and polished white zirconia ceramic housing filled with beads and basic glass bowl is $330
Fitted with a new 16MM Disorderly Conduction coil is $420
Also I was asked if this is truly going to be a one-off run or a continual release. It definitely depends on the interest, if just putting a small run together takes too much effort, it will just be one and done and I'll move on to something else. If there's a lot of interest, then more effort would go into making them more available.
madhockeydad
Art is beauty
I run my 1.7 at about 480 F on a Disorderly Conduction PID. I think the PID runs bit hot but I have no hard data. Great vapor and taste.
Cheebsy
Microbe minion
The 1.7 is beautifully pure in terms of flavour. Before I broke mine I would run it at 515f and it delivered everything I wished for. It's as good flavour as the elev8r but the vapour is thicker and develops much faster. It runs much cooler than my ceroma for similar performance but better flavour. I don't have any metal injectors but flavour is a somewhat common criticism there...
Thick Vape
In the Ballpark
Sorry, I was thinking of ruby balls that I saw in the thread. No Idea why I write of glass balls. Must be the
. I think glass or quartz balls are outdated for vaporisers now.I know someone that could know the price of raw diamonds of an appropriate size. Most likely still out of reach for normal people. We'll see.
The ball vapes that preceded mine all used glass (Glass Symphony; G43, Evo On A Stick) but the ball vape concept never really got popular until I started this thread for the ruby vaporizer. I think there might be twenty ruby ball vapes now? I kind of lost count to be honest.
The thing about glass beads is they don't heat fast or evenly, which is an issue when stacking a bunch of insulators on top of each other.
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Just saying the 1.8 sounds great! Glad you are still moving forward and family okay 
Thick Vape
In the Ballpark
exactly. Glass does not conduct nor store heat nearly as good as ruby. It would be possible to make a much shorter/smaller Glass symphony with ruby I guess. What you basically did.
The problem is probably the different expansion coefficients of glass and ruby. so heating a glass tube filled of ruby beads mights crack the tube. I wonder if there would be a filling pattern that allows for some expansion.