Part of the operating system. Not an app. Does this bother you?
- Thread starter lwien
- Start date
Spacenstein
Well-Known Member
Very concerning... good thing an iPhone is out of my price range..
OhTheAgony
here for the chicks
Steve Jobs tries to fuck with us in so many ways, it's time people start opening their eyes.
He just wants your money folks, make no mistake about it.
He just wants your money folks, make no mistake about it.
She doesn't need to know where I've been or what I've been up to. 
lwien
Well-Known Member
OhTheAgony said:
EVERYONE that runs a business wants your money.
Public companies want your money, not only for their CEO's but for their shareholders as well.
How can you possibly single out Apple in this regard?
Of course Steve Jobs wants your money. He runs a company. That's what he's supposed to do. That's what companies are supposed to do............make money.
The trick is to be able to stay within an acceptable ethic framework and still be able to thrive. Companies push that envelope all the time. Did Apple cross that ethical line in regards to this issue or other issues? Maybe, and that's up for discussion, but lets not condemn a CEO just because he desires his company to be profitable.
He just want's our money? Of course he does. I don't think anyone is mistaken about that.
AGBeer
Lost in Thought
Its just what they have been doing for quite some time now - its called profiling.
They track your spending habits - You get bullshit in the mail.
They track your surfing habits - You get popups and spam
Now they track your ritualistic habits - Somehow this data will also be compiled into the database of all of our other 'habits'
Doesnt make me like it any more. But it is what it is.
Im sure its somewhere in the fine print where you are basically 'leasing' the technology. And in seeing that they still OWN it (technically) they can do whatever the fuck they want with it.
They track your spending habits - You get bullshit in the mail.
They track your surfing habits - You get popups and spam
Now they track your ritualistic habits - Somehow this data will also be compiled into the database of all of our other 'habits'
Doesnt make me like it any more. But it is what it is.
Im sure its somewhere in the fine print where you are basically 'leasing' the technology. And in seeing that they still OWN it (technically) they can do whatever the fuck they want with it.
OhTheAgony
here for the chicks
lol @ Stu.
I realized it wasn't very wise to post that very un-nuanced post without backing it up Lwien, but to be honest I'm just to lazy and also really, really tired of anything that involves that company to dig up all the facts, again.
Of course Apple isn't the only company that's after our money. It is however one of the few (if not only) companies that has such a huge amount of 'followers' that I've often wondered if it wasn't a religion instead of an electronics company. And that's just where the problems begin. When people turn in to followers instead of semi-critical consumers a company can get away with a lot, like this little example right here. Apple even announced the background tracking as a new feature of IOS4 before it was even released, yet no one seemed to bother to look in to it or ask questions about it and people still buy the products using this OS, a brilliant marketing strategy indeed I'd say.
The illusive upgrade path of the iPad is another example, they're just holding up humanities technological advancement in order to better themselves. To me it's pretty obvious the guy and company have no ethics at all, feel free to look in to it yourself if you care enough.
I realized it wasn't very wise to post that very un-nuanced post without backing it up Lwien, but to be honest I'm just to lazy and also really, really tired of anything that involves that company to dig up all the facts, again.
Of course Apple isn't the only company that's after our money. It is however one of the few (if not only) companies that has such a huge amount of 'followers' that I've often wondered if it wasn't a religion instead of an electronics company. And that's just where the problems begin. When people turn in to followers instead of semi-critical consumers a company can get away with a lot, like this little example right here. Apple even announced the background tracking as a new feature of IOS4 before it was even released, yet no one seemed to bother to look in to it or ask questions about it and people still buy the products using this OS, a brilliant marketing strategy indeed I'd say.
The illusive upgrade path of the iPad is another example, they're just holding up humanities technological advancement in order to better themselves. To me it's pretty obvious the guy and company have no ethics at all, feel free to look in to it yourself if you care enough.
WatTyler
Revolting Peasant
It's a lesson in reading the terms and conditions for any software, but who even bothers bothers to read all that when you tick that acceptance box when installing new software on the PC, let alone going onto the website of your phone provider to do so?
But it's all there:
"We may collect information such as occupation, language, zip code, area code, unique device identifier, location, and the time zone where an Apple product is used so that we can better understand customer behaviour and improve our products, services, and advertising"
Trouble is most folk want an Iphone more than they give a shit. Even being fully aware of this I think most customers would still buy it and the Iphone would still be a massive success. Not me though.
Edit: Posted late and I've echoed OhTheAgony somewhat.
But it's all there:
"We may collect information such as occupation, language, zip code, area code, unique device identifier, location, and the time zone where an Apple product is used so that we can better understand customer behaviour and improve our products, services, and advertising"
Trouble is most folk want an Iphone more than they give a shit. Even being fully aware of this I think most customers would still buy it and the Iphone would still be a massive success. Not me though.
Edit: Posted late and I've echoed OhTheAgony somewhat.
CombustionJunction
What's Your Function?
Doesn't surprise me one bit. Thankfully, I don't own any Apple products.
charliedontsurf
Medical
You should buy an Android based phone over a Iphone OS phone ANYDAY, regardless of security issues with the Iphone.
Iphone owner and massive detractor here. Basically Apple charges you 3 times what the given hardware is worth and gives you shitty, one-hand-tied-behind-its-back operating systems to use on them. They should be ashamed of themselves.
As someone with some experience using a Mac as a Digital Audio Workstation, I appreciate the stability of the OS, but resent everything else about it.
Did you guys see the news report a month or so back, where an Apple employee leaked a lot of info about how they run their company? Pretty weird stuff: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/news/confessions-of-an-apple-store-employee
Iphone owner and massive detractor here. Basically Apple charges you 3 times what the given hardware is worth and gives you shitty, one-hand-tied-behind-its-back operating systems to use on them. They should be ashamed of themselves.
As someone with some experience using a Mac as a Digital Audio Workstation, I appreciate the stability of the OS, but resent everything else about it.
Did you guys see the news report a month or so back, where an Apple employee leaked a lot of info about how they run their company? Pretty weird stuff: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/news/confessions-of-an-apple-store-employee
Purple-Days
Well-Known Member
I hear Law Enforcement has a keen interest in this data. 
tdavie
Unconscious Objector
It doesn't bother me in the slightest because I never do anything illegal around electronics (really) other than to vape and/or smoke pot. That can't be remotely tracked in a portable consumer electronic device....yet.
If someone were to track my location via the iPhone database, they would see home, work, bank, grocery store, walking in repeated areas on foot (the dogs). The closest my iPhone comes to dealer Rob is 4 km.
But, if you have a jailbroken iPhone, you *can* run a firewall on it and control the type of data that goes out.
No, it doesn't bother me
Tom
(find appropriate programs that can locate and encrypt that pesky db....not a problem)
If someone were to track my location via the iPhone database, they would see home, work, bank, grocery store, walking in repeated areas on foot (the dogs). The closest my iPhone comes to dealer Rob is 4 km.
But, if you have a jailbroken iPhone, you *can* run a firewall on it and control the type of data that goes out.
No, it doesn't bother me
Tom
(find appropriate programs that can locate and encrypt that pesky db....not a problem)
WatTyler
Revolting Peasant
Purple-Days said:I hear Law Enforcement has a keen interest in this data.
Yeah- I read about the Michigan Police from here http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?pid=127033#p127033
Supposedly they need a warrant or consent, although the reports suggest not in practise...
And I dunno if a firewall type thing could stop this.
If you happened to have been in the vicinity of a serious incident and the cops got this off your phone at a traffic stop your day could get a whole lot more complicated. Even worse if your alibi did have to be your dealer. He probably wouldn't welcome you back
(edit: grammar)
Disclosure: I am an Apple bigot. I learned to hate Apple when I had to maintain a roomful of Apple ][ machines running the hands-down worst operating system ever, AppleDOS 3. (For context, I started out as an operating system performance specialist in 1969, and I've used and maintained numerous operating systems.) I would never own anything made by Apple even if you gave it to me.
This news comes as no shock to me, but even as an Apple bigot I don't see an issue unless Apple is harvesting this data. As far as I know, they do not.
Having said that, one of the things I find infuriating in people is the attitude (sorry Tom) "I'm not worried because I don't do anything wrong." This assumes that the data will not be misused or misinterpreted. Innocent actions can look terrifyingly implicating taken out of context, and trust me, if they can be they will be. Anyone who doubts this should watch the following two videos.
My original links were messed up. Apparently the only link you need is this (48 mins):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
These links split it into two parts, one by a law professor and the second by a cop:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE
Notice that the second half is advice from a cop. I know a couple of police officers and they tell me that this advice is solid.
Edited to fix URLs...
This news comes as no shock to me, but even as an Apple bigot I don't see an issue unless Apple is harvesting this data. As far as I know, they do not.
Having said that, one of the things I find infuriating in people is the attitude (sorry Tom) "I'm not worried because I don't do anything wrong." This assumes that the data will not be misused or misinterpreted. Innocent actions can look terrifyingly implicating taken out of context, and trust me, if they can be they will be. Anyone who doubts this should watch the following two videos.
My original links were messed up. Apparently the only link you need is this (48 mins):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
These links split it into two parts, one by a law professor and the second by a cop:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE
Notice that the second half is advice from a cop. I know a couple of police officers and they tell me that this advice is solid.
Edited to fix URLs...
charliedontsurf
Medical
Pakalolo, I certainly respect your opinion, but don't you see a huge problem with them collecting that information and NOT encrypting it? That's a tremendous security breach, a big violation of all of our rights, and a big justification why my Iphone, which I completely regret buying for the record, is jailbroken.
And they still charge completely absurd, unreasonable prices for the given hardware. If you can give me a good reason to buy a system at 3000 dollars that I can buy at 1000 dollars and simply install Mac OS onto, then please let me know. There probably are many that I'm not aware of and I'd love to learn, as a somewhat unlearned Mac-basher who is feeling more hate than love.
And they still charge completely absurd, unreasonable prices for the given hardware. If you can give me a good reason to buy a system at 3000 dollars that I can buy at 1000 dollars and simply install Mac OS onto, then please let me know. There probably are many that I'm not aware of and I'd love to learn, as a somewhat unlearned Mac-basher who is feeling more hate than love.
CombustionJunction
What's Your Function?
This is how I feel as well. There are so many people blindly buying macs because it's the cool thing to do, when it's the same exact hardware for more than twice the price. Maybe I just don't get it. I've been an IT Professional for 8 years and I have personally seen all the Apple myths debunked. "Apples are faster than PCs". False. "Macs don't get viruses". False. I can go on and on. I gotta hand it to Apple. They've done a hell of a job on the marketing end, but they're marketing lies. But the sheep just follow. Oh well.charliedontsurf said:
FLskwat
VAPOLITICS!
Must be a sheep then and won't discuss... 
On the professional side: have always owned high end windows OS laptops & PCs (Sony, Dell top top "hardware"). And on the personal side always have had Apple products.
And after 13 years of side to side comparison:
No matter how, a similar product in terms of features will be 30% more expensive at Apple's (a top notch sony VAIO vs. an Apple MBP): correct.
BUT
All my Apple products lifetime last 2 to 3 times longer then the others...like my G4 lasted for 6 years while I had to dump 2 vaios 2 dell in the same time (fan problems, lagging, RAM, trojan, viruses) etc...
I will not talk about ease to use, much better exploitation of the hardware by Apple, etc...as I am a sheep...
Coming back to Lwien's concern/topic, yes Apple has ethical issues (minerals used in the hardware, tracking, data base, etc...) and everyone believing any multinational company has none is a fool, I know you are not Lwien (this is valid for any android mobile with a Sirf 3 GPS card, Facebook, Google, Windows, Porsche tracking your moves in your GPS Cayenne....should I go on?).
Anyhow, be aware this has been written on a sheep's not cheap laptop...LOL!
On the professional side: have always owned high end windows OS laptops & PCs (Sony, Dell top top "hardware"). And on the personal side always have had Apple products.
And after 13 years of side to side comparison:
No matter how, a similar product in terms of features will be 30% more expensive at Apple's (a top notch sony VAIO vs. an Apple MBP): correct.
BUT
All my Apple products lifetime last 2 to 3 times longer then the others...like my G4 lasted for 6 years while I had to dump 2 vaios 2 dell in the same time (fan problems, lagging, RAM, trojan, viruses) etc...
I will not talk about ease to use, much better exploitation of the hardware by Apple, etc...as I am a sheep...
Coming back to Lwien's concern/topic, yes Apple has ethical issues (minerals used in the hardware, tracking, data base, etc...) and everyone believing any multinational company has none is a fool, I know you are not Lwien (this is valid for any android mobile with a Sirf 3 GPS card, Facebook, Google, Windows, Porsche tracking your moves in your GPS Cayenne....should I go on?).
Anyhow, be aware this has been written on a sheep's not cheap laptop...LOL!
wilf789
Non-combustion-convert
Definitely going to start reading more agreements after that latest South Park!
Shouldn't have really taken a cartoon to start that but oh well.
iPads and the like really have increased the amount of shit (to use SP's terminology) we produce. Historians of the future are going to have ridiculous amounts of source material to work through.
Shouldn't have really taken a cartoon to start that but oh well.
iPads and the like really have increased the amount of shit (to use SP's terminology) we produce. Historians of the future are going to have ridiculous amounts of source material to work through.
DeepFried
A Legend in my Own Mind
CombustionJunction said:
That is what I think too. Of course there are always exceptions to a blanket statement, but IMO the more knowledgeable and experienced you are in the I.T. field, the further and faster you run away from Apple products! Christ I get hives just walking past an Apple store.
Purple-Days
Well-Known Member
I'm sure this will help.
I've used both... ehhh.... If I wasn't paying for the hardware or the software... yeah, I choose MAC ... when buying for myself, I don't want 6 year old hardware, that the boss swears works, 'Just Fine...'
Hope that is taken well, MAC ers can be defensive, and I said I would take one if given...
I've used both... ehhh.... If I wasn't paying for the hardware or the software... yeah, I choose MAC ... when buying for myself, I don't want 6 year old hardware, that the boss swears works, 'Just Fine...'
Hope that is taken well, MAC ers can be defensive, and I said I would take one if given...
crawdad
floatin
i started programming basic when i was 5 years old on a c64. i have been a sysadmin for 14 years and mostly use bsd and some linux. i wrote code for windows apps for a few years and quickly tired of its synergistic design, too much depended on so many little parts and if any had an issue, you were in deep trouble. so i ran away from windows about 11 years ago.
i used freebsd as my desktop with a machine i built from parts and ran it for about 8 years. its an os that is built on logic, lets just put it that way. when jordan hubbard was tempted by apple to leave the freebsd project to join apple to help built the framework for what mac os x is now, i gave it a good long look and took the dive.
i have a mac pro at work and a couple laptops at home for mostly personal use (some work). most of the hype phrases of "it just works", well...for the most part its true. its hardly a marvel of modern technology (no software is imho) but due to its design it typically remains trouble free. much of how it operates is similar to bsd since it is based on that and by that i mean modular, if something does crash or cause an issue its rare the entire system is grinded to a halt like some of the other os's suffer from. i have seen mac os x lock up similar to blue screen of death, yep it can do it too...just much more rare and usually a hardware issue.
flame wars are typically rooted in superiority complexes and religious fervor and i adhere to neither. i make informed decisions that make sense to me, but im aware it hardly applies to all so i dont feel compelled to "set the record straight" for anyone about it, just offering my thoughts and experiences. pick what you want and make it work for you, its the same for a vehicle, toaster oven, spouse and even herbs and vaporizers.
i used freebsd as my desktop with a machine i built from parts and ran it for about 8 years. its an os that is built on logic, lets just put it that way. when jordan hubbard was tempted by apple to leave the freebsd project to join apple to help built the framework for what mac os x is now, i gave it a good long look and took the dive.
i have a mac pro at work and a couple laptops at home for mostly personal use (some work). most of the hype phrases of "it just works", well...for the most part its true. its hardly a marvel of modern technology (no software is imho) but due to its design it typically remains trouble free. much of how it operates is similar to bsd since it is based on that and by that i mean modular, if something does crash or cause an issue its rare the entire system is grinded to a halt like some of the other os's suffer from. i have seen mac os x lock up similar to blue screen of death, yep it can do it too...just much more rare and usually a hardware issue.
flame wars are typically rooted in superiority complexes and religious fervor and i adhere to neither. i make informed decisions that make sense to me, but im aware it hardly applies to all so i dont feel compelled to "set the record straight" for anyone about it, just offering my thoughts and experiences. pick what you want and make it work for you, its the same for a vehicle, toaster oven, spouse and even herbs and vaporizers.
aesthyrian
Blaaaaah
well, at least it's cute and smaller than the previous model.. 
momatik
Well-Known Member
Pakoloko, I've seen those lectures before and I'm glad to see them re-posted. Everyone should see them.
Personally, I like to think that people at Apple are intelligent enough to see the poor risk:benefit ratio of harvesting personal info like this. Especially when they are rolling in cash as it is.
Personally, I like to think that people at Apple are intelligent enough to see the poor risk:benefit ratio of harvesting personal info like this. Especially when they are rolling in cash as it is.