Obamacare

Gandalf

Well-Known Member
Not sure if all of that was directed at me, because I just asked about what you prefer as an alternative to Obamacare. I certainly don't think Obamacare is a perfect solution, but I'm inclined to think it's a better solution than what we have now. At least it's an attempt at reforming a shitty system. But to be perfectly honest, I don't know all the details I should and need to do some more research.

I'm a healthy small business owner in my 20s, I work out 5 days a week, don't smoke, and have no pre-existing conditions, and I still cannot afford any health insurance because I chose to work for myself instead of working for a company. For me to get any decent insurance, I'd have to pay over $500 a month that I cannot commit to paying at this stage since my income can be pretty volatile. I'm hoping this bill changes that for me and I can go see doctors when I get sick without just worrying about how much it will cost me.

BDV, have you read the bill, considering that it is so long?
 

BigDaddyVapor

@BigDogJunction
I have read major sections of it, yes. I'm not sure I want to read any more of it. A) Its boring as Hell and B) It ain't good for my health. It is a pork-laden (another broken promise) bill, that doesn't resemble anything close to Health Care overhaul. In fact, its quite the opposite. Your situation, isn't going to change, other than your premiums will be higher and you're going to be forced to buy into it.

Me, I'm @#$%ed. Doesn't matter if they force some insurance company to cover my pre-existing condition. I won't be able to afford the premiums, because ObamaCare doesn't place any limits on that. It just says, you have to have it and they have to cover me (which doesn't mean I'll get treated). However, if I don't buy it... I will face a fine, I also won't be able to afford.

Again, the bill is not what you think it is. Its not even a good start. It is everything, they say its not and nothing, of what they say it is.

Reality check

Oh! That reminded me. I wanted to post that damn transcript. To late now. :p
 
BigDaddyVapor,

Vicki

Herbal Alchemist
16k86pw.jpg
 
Vicki,

BigDaddyVapor

@BigDogJunction
Bill Maher? Really Vicki? Why don't I go out and find the most vile human-being I can, that leans right and start spewing their shit here to? Bringing that shit for brains into the conversation, is insulting. As a woman, you should be offended by the sight of him. He defends EVERYTHING that is ALL about shitting all over women's rights/health.

Take the "tea-bagger" term and shove it. You all were told how offensive it was and you still bring it here?

Anyway. I suggest you watch that video linked above. Taxes can't be reconciled. ObamaCare is a tax. Therefore it is invalid. No repeal necessary. I"m going to laugh my ass off, when that stupid piece of legislation, excuse me.... TAX, goes *POOF*.

OH! LOOK AT THAT! DEMS ALREADY SHITTING THEIR PANTS OVER THE "WIN"!?

BIG LINK
 
BigDaddyVapor,

lwien

Well-Known Member
Bill Maher? Really Vicki? Why don't I go out and find the most vile human-being ....

And would you say that Rush Limbaugh is just as vile and if you don't, is that just because he is a right winged commentator?

I just find it amusing when right wingers bitch about Maher without criticizing Limbaugh, and what is just as amusing is when left wingers criticize Limbaugh without criticizing Maher. Sooooo much hypocrisy......................from both sides of this equation.
 
lwien,
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lwien

Well-Known Member
I didn't bring either into the conversation, lwien. Making it a moot point.

YOU'RE the one that bitched about Maher and commented about how vile he is. Do you feel the same way about Limbaugh?

Or is vileness totally dependent on which side of the political coin you happen to live on?
 
lwien,

BigDaddyVapor

@BigDogJunction
Well, I don't much listen to him. I haven't ever heard him say anything remotely as rude and vile as Maher has, about Sarah Palin's children and the Right in general and I actually did use to watch his show regularly.

I have read the quotes from Limbaugh and then followed up, to see the context and found, mountains out of molehills. But, don't really know or listen to him enough, to make the call I can against Maher.

So... what's your point, other than it being moot, lwien? This seems to be a habit.
 
BigDaddyVapor,

lwien

Well-Known Member
Yeah..........I'm just a big mooter !! Mooting is kind of a hobby of mine. :)
 
lwien,

BigDaddyVapor

@BigDogJunction
I'm far more aware of the left, than you seem to think I am. I used to be quite liberal.

My ideology changed, because I saw what was behind the big curtain. The lies, the deceit. The ulterior motives, for such noble causes. I saw the "Utopia" for what it is. A police state. A party that was once, quite rational, being led around by hard core leftist, like Nancy Pelosi and special interest groups.

While I am a social conservative, to a degree... I don't want my country run that way. Ideologues haven't ANY business in politics... the left lets them run the party. Big difference.
 
BigDaddyVapor,
This is a good read.

said:
thanks to the Supreme Court, we are stuck with Obamacare - at least for now.
The following are 15 reasons why the Obamacare decision is a mind blowing disaster for America....
#1 According to the U.S. Supreme Court, the federal government has the power to force you to buy private goods and services. Now that this door has been opened, what else will we be forced to buy in the future?
#2 Obamacare is another step away from individual liberty and another step toward a "nanny state" where the government dominates our lives from the cradle to the grave.
#3 The IRS is now going to be given the task of hunting down and penalizing millions of Americans that do not have any health insurance. In fact, the Obama administration has given the IRS 500 million extra dollars "outside the normal appropriations process" to help them enforce the provisions of Obamacare that they are in charge of overseeing.
#4 Obamacare imposes more than 20 new taxes on the American people. You can find a comprehensive list of Obamacare taxes right here. If you love paying higher taxes, then you are going to absolutely love Obamacare once it is fully implemented.
#5 In an attempt to "control costs" and "promote efficiency", Obamacare limits the treatment options that doctors and patients can consider. This is likely to result in a decrease in life expectancy in the United States.
#6 Obamacare is going to impose nightmarish paperwork burdens on doctors, hospitals and the rest of the healthcare system. This is going to significantly increase our healthcare costs as a nation.
#7 Obamacare is going to send health insurance premiums soaring. This is especially true for younger Americans.
#8 Many small businesses are going to be absolutely crushed by the provisions in Obamacare that require them to provide expensive health insurance coverage for their employees. This is going to make them even less competitive with companies in other countries where businesses are not required to provide healthcare for their workers. This is also going to make it even less attractive for businesses to hire new employees.
#9 Obamacare is going to make the emerging doctor shortage in America a lot worse. Surveys have found that we could potentially see hundreds of thousands of doctors leave the medical profession because of Obamacare.
#10 Obamacare has already forced the cancellation of dozens of doctor-owned hospitals.
#11 Obamacare is going to result in a much bigger federal government. In order to fully implement all of the provisions of Obamacare, hordes of new government bureaucrats will be required.
#12 Thanks to Obamacare, you are going to have to wait much longer to see a doctor. Just look at what happened once Romneycare was implemented in Massachusetts....
In fact, we have already seen the start of this process in Massachusetts, where Mitt Romney’s health care reforms were nearly identical to President Obama’s. Romney’s reforms increased the demand for health care but did nothing to expand the supply of physicians. In fact, by cracking down on insurance premiums, Massachusetts pushed insurers to reduce their payments to providers, making it less worthwhile for doctors to expand their practices. As a result, the average wait to get an appointment with a doctor grew from 33 days to over 55 days.
#13 Obamacare contains all kinds of insidious little provisions that most people don't even know about. The following is one example from the Alliance Defense Fund....
"Did you know that with ObamaCare you will have to pay for life-saving drugs, but life-ending drugs are free. One hundred percent free. If this plan were really about health care wouldn't it be the other way around?"
#14 As if the U.S. government was not facing enough of a crisis with entitlement spending, it is being projected that Obamacare will add 16 million more Americans to the Medicaid rolls. You and I will be paying for all of this.
#15 The Congressional Budget Office estimates that Obamacare will add more than a trillion dollars to government spending over the next decade. Considering the fact that the U.S. government is already drowning in debt, how in the world can we afford this?
So what do you think about the Obamacare decision?
 
VaporBoxed,

BigDaddyVapor

@BigDogJunction
Speaking of which. Hey, Vicki... here's the hoops you're going to jump through, for your health care.

Note: ITS BIG, CLICK TO EXPAND
obamacare_chart_LG.jpg
 
BigDaddyVapor,

Vicki

Herbal Alchemist
I don't give a fuck about politics or hoops. What I do care about is my and my family's health. We NEED this change. (my family) If you don't like Obamacare, that is your choice, not mine.
 
Vicki,

BigDaddyVapor

@BigDogJunction
I'm sorry, Vicki... but the problem is. You don't know what ObamaCare is. I can tell you, it isn't what you think it is. Look at the chart, Vicki and realize every time you want an appointment, a med change, etc... it has to go through that ENTIRE flow chart.
 
BigDaddyVapor,

Gandalf

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, Vicki... but the problem is. You don't know what ObamaCare is. I can tell you, it isn't what you think it is. Look at the chart, Vicki and realize every time you want an appointment, a med change, etc... it has to go through that ENTIRE flow chart.


LOL. So every time Vicki makes an appointment to go to the doctor, the President and Homeland Security are involved?

That chart is hilarious. You could make a chart like that about any system depending on how you break it down. It's purely a visual tool used by Republicans to scare people. "Uh oh. It's complicated. Must be bad."
 
Gandalf,
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NateHevens

Rises, The Dark Knight
I'm far more aware of the left, than you seem to think I am. I used to be quite liberal.

Like a homophobic Young-Earth-Creationist "used to be an atheist", right?

Unless you mean more like Reagan, in which case I actually can respect that.

My ideology changed, because I saw what was behind the big curtain. The lies, the deceit. The ulterior motives, for such noble causes. I saw the "Utopia" for what it is. A police state. A party that was once, quite rational, being led around by hard core leftist, like Nancy Pelosi and special interest groups.

Here's a problem I have...

I'm what's called a "Liberal Libertarian", in that I'm economically liberal and socially libertarian, although that's not completely accurate, so I tend to take it on an issue-by-issue basis.

That said, I believe strongly that if the US is going to have a presence in the rest of the world, then it's government and its citizens have to do a little better in understanding things as the rest of the world (especially fellow First World Countries) understands them.

Because of that, I can tell you quite honestly that there are no liberals in the US government. If Nancy Pelosi is the closest, it's only because she leans the furthest left on the Centrist line. I am more liberal than Nancy Pelosi, and I'm not really that liberal, depending on the issue. Democrats are not liberal; they are just less conservative than Republicans are at this time. I'm convinced that the US wouldn't know liberalism if it bit us in the ass. We've never seen "liberal" in this country, and I'm quickly becoming convinced that we never will.

As far as this "Obamacare" crap... I lost any hope I had for this when the Public Option was dropped. Now that was reform. But let's cut some stereotypes. There is a reason it was called the Public Option, option being the operative word, there. You know... you have the option of a public plan, or you can go with a private plan. I read up on what had been proposed, and it essentially was the government offering to get in to the private health care market by offering their own health care. It'd essentially drum up competition and probably help to lower rates. I loved this... but it was gone, and now I'd rather not have Obamacare at all than not have a Public Option.

To be fair, Obama has been a major disappointment for me, based on what I wanted to see, but then, there's really no one currently involved in US politics I could vote for since... you know... not a single one of them is actually liberal, so...
 
NateHevens,

BigDaddyVapor

@BigDogJunction
LOL. So every time Vicki makes an appointment to go to the doctor, the President and Homeland Security are involved?

That chart is hilarious. You could make a chart like that about any system depending on how you break it down. It's purely a visual tool used by Republicans to scare people. "Uh oh. It's complicated. Must be bad."

Quite a claim. Care to back it up. All you did was dismiss it, with a typical dem talking point.

Though, I will concede some hyperbole. But that is the structure and YOU DO need to realize a large part is involved in simple things like an appointment.... yes.
 
BigDaddyVapor,

BigDaddyVapor

@BigDogJunction
Like a homophobic Young-Earth-Creationist "used to be an atheist", right?

I'm sorry its a difficult concept for you.

OH yeah, you and I both know, liberal is a term that has been redefined. Just like the left, usually likes to do. They claim what they think is theirs, then tell everyone else, they're a racist, homophobic, xenophobic, "tea-bagger".
 
BigDaddyVapor,

NateHevens

Rises, The Dark Knight
I'm sorry its a difficult concept for you.

OH yeah, you and I both know, liberal is a term that has been redefined. Just like the left, usually likes to do. They claim what they think is theirs, then tell everyone else, they're a racist, homophobic, xenophobic, "tea-bagger".

You missed the rest of my post. I did note that if you meant more like Reagan was a Democrat before becoming Republican, then I could actually respect that.

Also, for the record, although I am very much opposed to the Tea Party, I get pretty pissed when people use the term "tea-bagger". Granted, it was members of the Tea Party themselves that started it...

protestors-now-teabagging-for-jesus-4375-1261070306-124.jpg


... but it's old, overused, an needlessly insulting.

Did you read what I said about how there are no liberals in US politics?

Out of curiosity... are you a Young-Earth Creationist?
 
NateHevens,
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aesthyrian

Blaaaaah
Obama asked russia to give him "more time" on a defense issue
Obama invited the muslim brother hood to the white house
The obama white house has leaked highly sensitive information in regards to security
The Obama justice department has ignored wide spread voter intimidation by black panther radicals
the obama administration has provided national security information on our allies to our enemies.
The obama administration has said that their goal is to raise to cost of energy. this hurts the poor and middle class really hard
The obama administration has broke many bankruptcy court laws.

You really don't mind being a complete stereotype do you? I mean, everything you said is what I would use as satire of someone who is extremely right wing/conservative/teabagger.

Why don't you talk about how the Obama administration extended the Patriot Act? That actually fucking matters and actually happened. But if you must try to convince us that the black panthers still exist, and that they perform "wide spread voter intimidation" then by all means, carry on. I'm sure many enjoy the laughs.
 
aesthyrian,
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lwien

Well-Known Member
But in this case, aesthyrian, I really think it's a lot more real than just stereotypes, for they really believe what they say. That's the scary part. It's not satire. For them...........it's real.
 
lwien,
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