next generation e-nails?

SamuraiSam

SamuraiSam

Extraction Technician
@PoopMachine I had an interesting chat with D-nail customer service recently where they apologized for being unable to help configure my non D-nail box for use with their flat coil and SiC dish, and while they didn't try to sell me their box, they did mention that it would fix my issues.

I’ve been using a D-nail 20mm barrel coil on a home built e-nail with a variety of quartz nails and bangers for some time and it’s worked very well.

I have some sort of Auber SYL PID and the auto tune function in the PID delivered fantastic results on that coil, with those nails- I left it alone and never desired an improvement as there was at most a 10 degree fluctuation at the thermocouple- solid performance.

I recently purchased a Flat coil, SiC Halo, Slim series base, carb cap, and some other items to step-up my setup. My formerly fairly solid temps are now dropping 25+ degrees (at the thermocouple) during my draw and I experience a loss in vapor production during inhalation since I keep my temperatures low with no vapor formation before carb capping. If I inhale long enough (10+ seconds) the temperatures begin coming back up during the last third or quarter of my lung capacity, or if I give a shorter “first pull” and exhale, by the time I take the second pull the temperatures are back up to a vaporizing level.

I understand the D-Nail carb cap will drop dish temperatures but hope that it's not solely responsible for this dip. I hope to make an improvement through further tuning, Auto-tune with this coil delivers a much slower heating, slower responding heater.

This dip seems to occur even if I push the temperatures 10 or 15 degrees higher and I was wondering anyone's aware of an “e-nail specific PID tuning guides” that might help me stabilize temperatures a bit more, as I’ve been searching for info and found generalities when tuning PID controllers but haven’t come across a guide to optimizing PID values for an e-nail. The best guide I’ve found so far is for programming BBQs and smokers - http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...troller-what-are-your-pid-settings-heres-mine

I've had difficulties using the search function in this thread because "PID" is too short of a search term any suggestions?
 
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Monsoon

Monsoon

Well-Known Member
I tried the Dark Crystal Clear cleaning stuff on my Quartz and Sapphire Halo's. My older quartz it didn't help but I think that was due to torch cleaning and not q-tipping from day one, has a bit of a texture that shouldn't be there which catches the q-tip. The newer quartz there wasn't much to clean in the first place and it did leave some black residue streaks despite lots of q-tip scrubbing during cleaning. The Sapphire now looks brand new after scrubbing minus some charring on the inside of the disc where it contacts the Ti nut. Just soaking it wasn't enough, needed to scrub it a lot after since the solution only loosened it. I'd recommend it but I'm still looking for better. I didn't take before pics unfortunately but the end result almost looks like it just arrived in the mail.

All 3 of my current Halos haven't been torched and I think I'm going to try to keep it that way. Just heat cleaning the quartz after rigorous q-tipping after each dab has kept it a lot cleaner up to now. Seems to be working with the SiC too though it's harder to see the leftover residue on that one. I've been trying the SiC again the last couple days and it's nicer to use than the Sapphire in some ways since you don don't have to worry about it breaking. I also find I can go a bit lower too, I'm dabbing at 580F (vs 610F on Sapphire) and then after q-tipping I jack the temp straight to 900F and then back down and it's ready for the next dab. I still lean towards the Sapphire as the best but the other two are close in a lot of ways. I'm probably going to order some BHO and PHO shatter online soon (I love you CANADA!) so I'm hoping that will give me something to see more of a difference since I find QWET doesn't have the same flavour intensity of other types.

I am getting some bigger temp swings on the SiC after I carb cap it compared to the Sapphire or Quartz. If I cap it for 10-15 seconds the temp reading will drop as much as 15F before recovering and then overshoot a bit. Gets back to temp quickly so it's not a huge concern and you can compensate by increasing to your target temp just prior to your dab so the heater is activated already or just start at a higher temp. I guess the SiC conducts heat a bit better than the other two and depends on your capping technique. I think this might apply to you @Baron23.
 
mrbonsai420

mrbonsai420

Accessory Maker
Accessory Maker
I just dropped in to tell you guys that the Liger V3 testing with the Sapphire, SiC, and quartz options is going well! I should be released in a 16 and 20mm barrel coil as well as a monster 30mm for the flat coil. The sapphire may only be made for the 20mm and flat coil 30mm sizes due to the scarceness. This is rocking my world! Of course V2's are available now in 16mm and 20mm. The big change in the 16 and 20mm is the encasing of the coil for further efficiency. The 30mm flat coil version is HUGE! and the addition of the hurricane carb cap option the V3 is even better than the already awesome V2.

 
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goatgobaahh

goatgobaahh

Well-Known Member
Alright Team FC first post in this thread and I'm hoping to learn something.


What enail is that and where do I get one?!
 
goatgobaahh,
goatgobaahh

goatgobaahh

Well-Known Member
I thought the e-nail was that thing spinning around the light bulb shaped thing.

I thought it was just cut out of video...so that's not an e-nail...what is it??
 
goatgobaahh,
goatgobaahh

goatgobaahh

Well-Known Member
Silat said:
It is a solar toy :) I had one decades ago as a child.
Click to expand...
Sorry for being such a nub guys. So pretty much Dnail is the most solid company with the best rep.

I do notice temp drop with some of those e-nails. Is that a big deal or significantly going to affect my experience?
 
goatgobaahh,
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mrbonsai420

mrbonsai420

Accessory Maker
Accessory Maker
goatgobaahh said:
Alright Team FC first post in this thread and I'm hoping to learn something.


What enail is that and where do I get one?!
Click to expand...

@goatgobaahh It is true that Dnail and Errlectric have slightly less of a temp swing than the cheap Chinese units. BUT if you can find an Omron with a separate SSR (Maybe Gimodo's best) it will be comparable IMO.My Omron unit works flawlessly and has almost no temp swings. And the Auber and other units work really well IMO and do the trick. Even my $100 units work ok, they just swing 8-10 degrees instead. Errlectric at least doesn't use a PiD, and it has the auto off feature. But if you want a high end nail there are some cool things out there that are much more cutting edge.

The only nail that stands out to me lately is the Hex nail @HexNailAva . That nail looks like it adds some cool features and is very aesthetically pleasing for the extra money. Plus the temp swings should be the least in the industry due to the settings being customized for your nail. This thing looks beautiful. Check this out if you are looking for a high end enail.

https://www.hex-nail.com/
 
Danksta

Danksta

Well-Known Member
High5 is good too. I ended up getting one of those and a cheap dhgate rig and a hybrid nail from newvape. Whole setup was around $300, slightly under. I just preordered the new Liger V3 and should be good for a long time. I don't see the point in buying a pricey enail, I'd rather that go towards a solid nail and future concentrates.
 
Danksta,
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Baron23

Baron23

Well-Known Member
goatgobaahh said:
Sorry for being such a nub guys. So pretty much Dnail is the most solid company with the best rep.

I do notice temp drop with some of those e-nails. Is that a big deal or significantly going to affect my experience?
Click to expand...

No. D-nail is quality stuff at extreme prices in my opinion. Might want to give this post a look.

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/first-e-nail.22513/#post-1017895

I just received an Auber RDK-300 ($135 without a coil...coil another $55) and its ROCK solid on temp. My Greenlight Vapes G9, with an Omron like what @mrbonsai420 uses, has been fixed (rewired) and is also now rock solid. So, no...I don't think D-nail can really be more stable...but it is WAY more expensive.

I also looked at HighFive. They didn't reply to my inquiries and their owners manual says:

"ONLY USE HIGH5 COILS WITH HIGH5 ENAILS, many other
coils are wired differently and will not work with our units."​

But, i haven't been able to figure out why. They use a five pin XLR connector but don't tell you the pin outs. If its 1 & 2 = AC power, 3 & 4 = thermonuclear +/-, and 5 = ground then it will work with most coils as this has become a bit of the de facto standard as far as I can tell. If they do NOT pin them out this way, then they only did that to lock you into buying coils only from them and I would object strenously to getting involved with them.

I understand that they work well, though.

mrbonsai420 said:
Errlectric at least doesn't use a PiD
Click to expand...

What do they use as temp stabilization algorithm if not PID?
 
Hogni

Hogni

Honi soit qui mal y pense
One question please.
Is it possible without danger of damage to bend a regular coil to a bent neck coil?
 
Hogni,
mrbonsai420

mrbonsai420

Accessory Maker
Accessory Maker
Baron23 said:
No. D-nail is quality stuff at extreme prices in my opinion. Might want to give this post a look.

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/first-e-nail.22513/#post-1017895

I just received an Auber RDK-300 ($135 without a coil...coil another $55) and its ROCK solid on temp. My Greenlight Vapes G9, with an Omron like what @mrbonsai420 uses, has been fixed (rewired) and is also now rock solid. So, no...I don't think D-nail can really be more stable...but it is WAY more expensive.

What do they use as temp stabilization algorithm if not PID?
Click to expand...


They (Errlectric) use a simple Microprocessor to control it programmed to their specifications and an LCD readout. It manages to do the same thing but with a few extra features like auto cut-off. I think the Hex nail will take it a few steps further but for now I am happy with no features and just rock solid temps from my Omron until that comes out.

Hogni said:
One question please.
Is it possible without danger of damage to bend a regular coil to a bent neck coil?
Click to expand...
YES! Check out this post by Chase in the Liger thread about it. You can really increase efficiency this way by spreading out a coil. or make it more ergonomic by bending down the neck. You can do it just do it slowly and carefully and make sure it doesn't crease or crimp. These all start out straight and are bent by machines into these shapes (20mm, flat, et)

Liger banger V2.0
 
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B

brucee10

Well-Known Member
mrbonsai420 said:
They (Errlectric) use a simple Microprocessor to control it programmed to their specifications and an LCD readout. It manages to do the same thing but with a few extra features like auto cut-off. I think the Hex nail will take it a few steps further but for now I am happy with no features and just rock solid temps from my Omron until that comes out.


YES! Check out this post by Chase in the Liger thread about it. You can really increase efficiency this way.

Liger banger V2.0
Click to expand...

I'm betting the Errlectric still uses a similar logic loop to what is inside a standalone PID controller. They've just based it around a different PLC from someone like Atmel. It gives them extra processing power for things like cleaning mode and running multiple nails off one controller.
 
Baron23

Baron23

Well-Known Member
@mrbonsai420 and @brucee - I'm with Brucee on this one. I don't care what the actual logic is called by them, they have some algorithm running in there. I also don't think they are contracting for new silicon (that is, I can't imagine that they are not using commercially available processor) nor do I think they just discovered a new mathematical temp control model overlooked by all of the many large manf of industrial temp controllers.

So far, I still haven't see anything to justify the high cost of D-nail, Errlectric, or this new Hex-nail.
 
Hogni

Hogni

Honi soit qui mal y pense
Bonsai, thx a lot!

The Hex-Nail really has an extraordinary outstanding nice design compared to all this other tired looking enail stuff. I like the touchscreen too. Some features are useful but most of them are superfluous IMO or, how we say with a german phrase, "schnick schnack"
Perhaps I'm just to old for all these "i-"things and hype about it....
Compared to enails from D-Nail and errlectric price seems to be a little bit more reasonable if it works how asserted and because of its design.
 
Hogni,
hardboiledfrog

hardboiledfrog

tinkerer
mrbonsai420 said:
Bump up the temps, I don't see a dab yet.
Click to expand...
The temp of the bottom of the bucket is over a hundred degrees F higher than what the thermocouple reads as it is spot-welded higher up on the side. I actually started with the setpoint at over 600 F and worked down until the taste improved and the remains of the dab didn't smell burnt. The difference in effects wasn't much and I may be wasting a small amount but the taste and no harshness are worth the sacrifice.
Now I need to step up to a Liger with a SIC insert.
 
mrbonsai420

mrbonsai420

Accessory Maker
Accessory Maker
hardboiledfrog said:
The temp of the bottom of the bucket is over a hundred degrees F higher than what the thermocouple reads as it is spot-welded higher up on the side. I actually started with the setpoint at over 600 F and worked down until the taste improved and the remains of the dab didn't smell burnt. The difference in effects wasn't much and I may be wasting a small amount but the taste and no harshness are worth the sacrifice.
Now I need to step up to a Liger with a SIC insert.
Click to expand...


I love the idea, the fast heat up times of induction have always interested me!
I guess I just mean I don't see any visible vapor at all in your video? Perhaps it's the lighting. I watched it a few times waiting on the dab and just saw air bubbles? You should be able to whitewall that little bubbler with a tiny dab right?
 
hardboiledfrog

hardboiledfrog

tinkerer
the fast heat up, about 30 seconds, is a nice feature for sure plus being battery powered would make this a great portable unit. The lack of white vapor may be due to the poor fit of the carb cap, I need to get a better one. But there is decent vapor on the exhale, my camera just doesn't do too good at showing it though.
 
hardboiledfrog,
alittledabwilldoya'

alittledabwilldoya'

Sapphire Powered Dabstronaut.
hardboiledfrog said:
the fast heat up, about 30 seconds, is a nice feature for sure plus being battery powered would make this a great portable unit. The lack of white vapor may be due to the poor fit of the carb cap, I need to get a better one. But there is decent vapor on the exhale, my camera just doesn't do too good at showing it though.
Click to expand...

You could also put up a darker colored backdrop to provide greater contrast.
 
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