My theory of healthy cannabis usage

[MindFork]

I'm starting this thread on its own because I don't want to keep derailing another thread. Some of this is copy-paste from that thread, the rest is to round out this personal theory.


Cannabis legalization will happen, and we should all be thinking about good cannabis education for kids and new tokers (soon to be vapers). I foresee far too many people abusing cannabis because they think it's totally safe and ok to use.

There really isn't a "small dose" of MJ. You're either high, or you're not high. Only people who use daily build up enough tolerance that they can have a tiny bit and feel "mostly normal" like someone who has a glass of wine with lunch and goes back to work.

Most business owners will agree that being high isn't conducive to doing most types of work. Even when legal, being high at work is just a bummer for everyone involved, especially non-high co-workers.

I think it is easier than most people realize to become dependent on MJ. Not "addicted" in the truest sense, but dependency is pretty easy. Some kind of educational info is needed to point out the warning signs like occasional use turning into daily use, turning into use earlier and earlier in the day, turning into wake and bake 7 days a week.

Avoid the Wake and Bake

Sorry, but there is a lot wrong with wake and bake 7 days a week, productive at work or not.

Cannabis can have a very positive effect on consciousness when used wisely, in moderate doses, with plenty of "recovery" time in between sessions to allow the cannabinoids to be cleared out of the brain and body. (20 hours at a minimum and 44 hours ideally, putting the sweet spot at using between 6pm-10pm with a day off here and there.)

Going past that point will have detrimental effects on cognitive ability, emotional self-expression and individual presence (and empathy) when communicating with others.

Blunting emotional awareness and self-expression is probably the most harmful aspect of cannabis abuse. Yes, abuse. Someone who gets drunk all day long, every day is usually trying to drown out some unhealed emotional pain. This usually applies to cannabis overuse as well.

I know I'm going to take a lot of flack for this, and that plenty of people will chime in that they are emotionally "fine," productive at work, etc. Well, try taking a week off and see if you get better at your job and connect with people more. A bonus will be that you remember your dreams again, and in that process one can be shown underlying emotional issues that had been neglected because of the feeling of well-being that cannabis induces.

All I am advocating for here is healthy, balanced usage, and I know that differs from person to person. However, I have known many people who abused cannabis, ultimately to the detriment of their loved ones, their career and their own emotional well-being. Cannabis is a powerful, seductive substance that should be used wisely with full awareness of its potential dangers.

I Speak from Experience

This is based on 20 years of cannabis experience and observation of many users. I have seen too many people do serious damage to their psyches and lives due to cannabis abuse. I personally experienced this and had to figure out a way to reverse the damage. The solution was to stop abusing this powerful (and sacred, IMO) substance.

If a person does not give their brain and body enough time to clear out the previous day's cannabis, they will experience various subtle forms of decline until they eventually become a shell of their former self. 20 hours is about the minimum, and 44 hours is better.

The seductive attraction of cannabis induced well-being tempts many men (generally more often than women) into over-use and abuse. I know this can be an uncomfortable thing to look at, but if someone feels compelled to wake and bake 7 days a week, they have a problem. This is dependency.

The solution is easy: just take a week off! It's not that hard, and when you get high after that week, the effects will be far more profound. I suggest making sure you are alone with some chill-out music during that first time after the week off experience so you can experience it fully. Cannabis is truly much more rewarding with a "fresh" brain.

Obviously, many people have come to this same conclusion based on their own experience. Here is one such person: http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/the-yin-and-the-yang-of-using-cannabis.12107/

All of this is strictly for physically healthy people who do not rely on cannabis to control pain. However, for those with social anxiety, there are deeper underlying issues that should be addressed and resolved, because depending on cannabis to resolve social anxiety is not actually solving the problem, merely medicating it.

So if you're using daily from 4:20 to midnight, or doing the daily wake-n-bake, take "the week off challenge" and shift your usage pattern to allow your body time to clear out the previous day's cannabinoids. Not only will you save a lot of money on weed, your life will probably improve as well.

Peace, love and moderation,
MF

 

[Gunky]

I Speak from Experience

This is based on 20 years of cannabis experience and observation of many users. I have seen too many people do serious damage to their psyches and lives due to cannabis abuse. I personally experienced this and had to figure out a way to reverse the damage. The solution was to stop abusing this powerful (and sacred, IMO) substance.


MF

I have been into cannabis for 45 years. That's more than double the length of time of your experience. I was probably toking before you were born. Heck I had crops before you were born. So I guess that means I win the pissing contest and my opinion has more weight than yours. Carry on.

 

[tuk]

How many of those 45 years have you been taking tolerance breaks or leaving gaps between getting high like MindFork is describing?

 

[MindFork]

Gunky, I'm not pissing, nor in any contest. I stated that to show that it's not some half-baked idea that came to me last night when I got high for only the 3rd time in my life.

Let's imagine that we're talking about hard alcohol instead of cannabis. How would it sound for someone to recommend taking days off from getting drunk, and also suggesting getting drunk in the evening instead of starting first thing in the morning?

Sounds pretty sensible, IMO.

 

[Caligula]

@Gunky there wasn't a pissing match until you started in mid-stream. IMO the OP was trying to quantity what he was saying because everyone asked for citation and validation last time around.

Then again maybe I'm wrong. I don't mean to speak for @MindFork

Speaking of which, how is using MMJ on the daily to help with social anxiety any different than someone who takes a Rx pharmaceutical pill for it every morning? Or are you saying that is also improperly treating the issue? I follow a lot of what you're trying to say but this is where I get stuck. Mainly because it reminds me of scientology.

 

[Jared]

Let's imagine that we're talking about hard alcohol instead of cannabis. How would it sound for someone to recommend taking days off from getting drunk, and also suggesting getting drunk in the evening instead of starting first thing in the morning?

Sounds pretty sensible, IMO.

The thing is though, we arent. We're talking about cannabis. I suppose you could compare it to meth also but that doesnt make your argument any more valid.

 

[Gunky]

I don't advocate using daily or not. That's up to the individual. It's a free country. Funny how people find some routine that works for them and suddenly they've got religion and want to save everybody from the benighted state they previously were in and start proselytizing all over the place.

As for have I ever taken a break over 45 years I've been into it - duh!

 

[Caligula]

The thing is though, we arent. We're talking about cannabis. I suppose you could compare it to meth also but that doesnt make your argument any more valid.

True, but couldn't you use that analogy for almost any drug that you build a tolerance to? You just have to weigh the pros and cons. There are always benefits of reducing or eliminating drugs from your system, but the question is if those benefits outweigh the negative effects of going without (or with less).

In your example I'd say the positive effects of abstaining from meth outweigh the negatives of being off it. But like you said, not all drugs are equal in all situations. I'm obviously paraphrasing but you get the idea.

 

[Magic9]

So....is there any science behind the 20-44 hours?

 

[MindFork]

The thing is though, we arent. We're talking about cannabis. I suppose you could compare it to meth also but that doesnt make your argument any more valid.

The closest thing we have to MJ is alcohol in terms of effects and social acceptance. Obviously, cannabis is superior to alcohol in every possible way, but the analogy is still valid, IMO. Why is it NOT ok for someone to be drunk from morning until midnight, but somehow it IS ok for someone to be high pretty much 24/7?

Physiologically there is less harm, but the detriment to mental and emotional states is very clear to observe in the daily wake-n-bake user. Obviously there are no studies for this, but I have been observing stoners for 20 years and have seen a consistent pattern of emotional instability, bad life choices and all around chaos in the lives of those who abuse cannabis.

Obviously there are exceptions to every rule, and a small few can manage to balance life, work, family, community, health, exercise, meditation and wake-n-bake daily cannabis usage. Out of the hundred or so guys who I would classify as "heavy users" I've known over the last 20 years (not counting casual users here), there was ONE guy who managed all of that along with a daily wake-n-bake usage level. He was a truly exceptional man in many ways, although to be honest he had designed his lifestyle around his cannabis usage, not the other way around.

So....is there any science behind the 20-44 hours?

Sadly, no. I base this on repeated polling of stoner friends over the years to find out from them how much time needs to elapse from the previous day's last hit until the current day's hit in order for the effect to be "pretty strong." And of course, on my own diligent personal research over the years. :-)

We all know how easy it is to build a tolerance, and daily usage drives that tolerance up quickly. The people who I have managed to convince to try the 20-44 hour gap all reported back to me that it helped them appreciate their high and derive the most positive mental / consciousness benefits from it, and also enjoy their sober state.

 

[Gunky]

Cannabis is actually pretty different from alcohol, because the more you consume, the more the effects taper off. There is a kind of natural regulating mechanism. If you've ever done it regularly for joint inflammation, pain, etc you know what I mean. Unlike alkies who spiral into an ever more degraded state of intoxication, heavy pot users have a general buzz going all the time but don't get that high, except when using a more concentrated than normal form, like going from flowers to hash or hash to edible. IMO

 

[lwien]

....putting the sweet spot at using between 6pm-10pm with a day off here and there.

The above quote just described my usage almost to a tee.

My sweet spot is between 8-10pm about 5 times a week. I just find that it not only keeps my tolerance in check, but makes the high that much more enjoyable.

 

[MindFork]

Cannabis is actually pretty different from alcohol, because the more you consume, the more the effects taper off. There is a kind of natural regulating mechanism. If you've ever done it regularly for joint inflammation, pain, etc you know what I mean. Unlike alkies who spiral into an ever more degraded state of intoxication, heavy pot users have a general buzz going all the time but don't get that high, except when using a more concentrated than normal form, like going from flowers to hash or hash to edible. IMO

One of the many reasons that cannabis is superior to alcohol in every possible way. :-)

 

[Gunky]

Actually it's the folks doing this very sparing regimen with 20-40 hrs off etc who become most impaired for driving a car, operating machinery, performing competently in social situations, etc. The levels in their bloodstream vary drastically and consequently they get really stoned. Heavy users are much less likely to blow situations in their life than these folks because having high levels of cannabinoids in their bloodstream is normal and consistent for them.

 

[Jared]

The closest thing we have to MJ is alcohol in terms of effects and social acceptance. Obviously, cannabis is superior to alcohol in every possible way, but the analogy is still valid, IMO. Why is it NOT ok for someone to be drunk from morning until midnight, but somehow it IS ok for someone to be high pretty much 24/7?

Physiologically there is less harm, but the detriment to mental and emotional states is very clear to observe in the daily wake-n-bake user. Obviously there are no studies for this, but I have been observing stoners for 20 years and have seen a consistent pattern of emotional instability, bad life choices and all around chaos in the lives of those who abuse cannabis.

Obviously there are exceptions to every rule, and a small few can manage to balance life, work, family, community, health, exercise, meditation and wake-n-bake daily cannabis usage. Out of the hundred or so guys who I would classify as "heavy users" I've known over the last 20 years (not counting casual users here), there was ONE guy who managed all of that along with a daily wake-n-bake usage level. He was a truly exceptional man in many ways, although to be honest he had designed his lifestyle around his cannabis usage, not the other way around.

The analogy is not valid. Cannabis and alcohol are literally nothing alike.

 

[Magic9]

I'm glad that you have found what works for you. I have found what works for me (I have a little experience myself, t-breaks included).

I would never say that your method is wrong if it works for you. Maybe next time though, try not to tell others (myself included) that we are "abusing" if we don't do what works for you. Also, phrases such as

Going past that point will have detrimental effects on cognitive ability, emotional self-expression and individual presence (and empathy) when communicating with others.

and

If a person does not give their brain and body enough time to clear out the previous day's cannabis, they will experience various subtle forms of decline until they eventually become a shell of their former self. 20 hours is about the minimum, and 44 hours is better.

While I respect your differeing opinion, I feel phrases like those detract from the point you were trying to make.

All I am advocating for here is healthy, balanced usage, and I know that differs from person to person.

 

[lwien]

Actually it's the folks doing this very sparing regimen with 20-40 hrs off etc who become most impaired for driving a car, operating machinery, performing competently in social situations, etc.

While I would never drive a car or operate machinery while stoned, there are times that I perform much more competently in social situations when stoned. It really depends on who in the hell I'm socializing with.

On the other hand, I do remember way back when, when I ALWAYS smoked a joint on the way home from work and when there were times that I exited off the freeway and wondered who in the hell was driving the car for the past half hour.

 

[Magic9]

On the other hand, I do remember way back when, when I ALWAYS smoked a joint on the way home from work and when there were times that I exited off the freeway and wondered who in the hell was driving the car for the past half hour.

So did the cannabis cause you to make horrible choices or was it just there for the ride when you did?

 

[lwien]

So did the cannabis cause you to make horrible choices or was it just there for the ride when you did?

I take TOTAL responsibility for any horrible choices I have made. And btw, I also take total responsibility for the great choices I made as well.

 

[MindFork]

I'm glad that you have found what works for you. I have found what works for me (I have a little experience myself, t-breaks included).

I would never say that your method is wrong if it works for you. Maybe next time though, try not to tell others (myself included) that we are "abusing" if we don't do what works for you. Also, phrases such as

and

While I respect your differeing opinion, I feel phrases like those detract from the point you were trying to make.

Fair enough. I will tone down the rhetoric. My intent was not to belittle anyone, but I don't like the way that people dismiss "heavy" use of something as powerful (and sacred, IMO) as cannabis as being totally harmless.

I have seen bright people use large amounts of cannabis to diminish themselves to the point of yes, being a shell of who they had been. Of course, if they didn't have cannabis they would probably have used some other substance to numb out whatever they were trying to avoid.

So cannabis isn't to blame, any more than the bullets a killer uses are to blame. (yea, bad analogy...)

To all you heavy tokers, I apologize if I offended you or sounded preachy. I'll be over in the corner with the other lightweights talking about how little we spend on weed.

And on that note ladies and dudes, Imma go get high.

 

[lwien]

Fair enough. I will tone down the rhetoric. My intent was not to belittle anyone, but I don't like the way that people dismiss "heavy" use of something as powerful (and sacred, IMO) as cannabis as being totally harmless.

I have seen bright people use large amounts of cannabis to diminish themselves to the point of yes, being a shell of who they had been.

Achhh. I don't view cannabis as something powerful or sacred. To me, its just another substance that can be abused, but then, so is pumpkin pie.

To me, moderation is key and too much of a good thing, no matter what that good thing is, can be very, very bad.

 

[pakalolo]

I'm starting this thread on its own because I don't want to keep derailing another thread. Some of this is copy-paste from that thread, the rest is to round out this personal theory.

I appreciate the new thread since it has more or less stopped the bleeding, but I'm still scratching my head what to do with that mess. I might move some posts but I can't move anything earlier that your OP here because it will become the thread starter.

To your point, I see that you admit that your only evidence is anecdotal. I think many if not most of the cases you've seen where a 24/7 stoner has made a mess of life is someone who just makes poor choices, and being 100% baked is a consequence not a cause. You already alluded to that.

 

[MindFork]

Thanks pakalolo, and sorry again for the sloppy forum etiquette. Won't happen again.

 

[VapechickV]

Let's imagine that we're talking about hard alcohol instead of cannabis. How would it sound for someone to recommend taking days off from getting drunk, and also suggesting getting drunk in the evening instead of starting first thing in the morning?

Sounds pretty sensible, IMO.

Drinking and smoking weed are two completely different things with completely different effects. Your initial argument loses validity when you compare the two.

Actually it's the folks doing this very sparing regimen with 20-40 hrs off etc who become most impaired for driving a car, operating machinery, performing competently in social situations, etc. The levels in their bloodstream vary drastically and consequently they get really stoned. Heavy users are much less likely to blow situations in their life than these folks because having high levels of cannabinoids in their bloodstream is normal and consistent for them.

I used to ride a motorcycle years ago, and I would smoke a little before I rode to both calm my nerves and help me focus on what I need to be focusing on. One of my main riding partners was a motorcycle cop who even said "well you're stoned all the time so it makes sense that you should be in your natural state." I'm not advocating doing this, I'm just saying that I agree with you. And at least one cop does too. haha

And on the flipside, when I was in massage school, around the same time, I would get high on lunch breaks then come back to enjoy the massage/get massaged portion of class. One day I was tragically out of weed, so instead of taking off during the break I sat outside for a while. A classmate talked to me for a few minutes, and then said "you're acting really weird today, are you stoned or something??" I laughed and said, "actually, it's the one day I'm not!"

 

[Hippie Dickie]

@MindFork - in an effort to bring closure, and hopefully get this thread out of my mind, i just have to post ... i can't possibly post what i really want to say, so just two things: 1) i pretty much disagree with everything you said, and 2) if your opinion is formed from the people you know, i humbly suggest you need to find some different friends.

just my opinion, of course.