Micro-dosing

[Flower of empathy]

Yes, it's a bible - even with a part about vaping in 2000, the Tilt was the way to go
The real pitty is, nowadays it's almost impossible to find by other genetics undilluted pure landrace hash with the true taste. Especially my favourite maroc, searched 200 coffe shops in the netherlands with no luck. Even at my last morocco trip in almost any sample i got i could taste a hint of pakistani - maybe deeper in the mountains...
So to clearify my thesis it's a high possibillity that even in the past century there were some sleeping beauty's with pretty high thc in the fields, but due to growing those times it wasn't very common bc there was no large quantity

 

[Diggy Smalls]

Are people debating over what you should feel when you vaporize a tiny amount? Or are they debating about how tiny your dose has to be before it's micro?

Anyway, I let my dosing get away with me for a while. I cut back big time. Using AVB also helps, cause it's weaker than fresh herb and helps me sleep. So blah blah blah, right? Well bringing my tolerance down lower helped me lower my dosing and still feel pleasure from it. I use a very small amount that doesn't register on my scale, and I use high heat and just extract it quickly.
I wait to see how I feel and then after 15 minutes, sometimes I will do one more, but sometimes I don't. So here I am getting by with crumbs of cannabis and it feels good. Clean buzz, nice relaxed feeling, mental clarity, and my stomach settles. So grateful to have a log vape that can use the stainless steel tips that go into the heater port, cause it makes it a cinch to load and vape tiny amount.
Cheers!

 

[Ohmie]

I wish I were born into a vaping world instead of the smoking one. I'd hate to think I'm missing out on some of the experience due to my receptors havin been dulled..but yeah, microdosing Imo is anything that doesn't knock you out or cut you down a peg so dosing can be relative to how active u are. Low grade weed is the bad version of that cause it just gives u more of a dizziness and or headache before you feel whatever thc effects it has, which is relative to my views on cbd as well. Being smoking buddies with the dealer I cought him buying those old school mixed bags where the low grade degraded whatever higher grade there was in it and vice versa and that's basically the effects I felt from the medical cbd grade this one guy talked me into buying one time. It was just pretty weed with no reason to be so. An older buddy of mine told me you could pick wild weed from the side of the road in his day. Nobody should be forced to pay for it. At the end of the day it's just as much a drug as salt and pepper. Everything are chemicals. I'm sure I could go swallow a teaspoon of salt and fall asleep from indigestion or something right now. None of this is new. Here's a piece from an article on vanilla extract:
"Hot extraction vs. cold pressed
There is apparently a hot debate (pardon the pun) about which is better. Som

e feel heat extraction gets out some flavor components that would otherwise stay in the beans. By heat extraction, I mean using heated alcohol.

Others feel that natural, ‘cold-pressed’ vanilla extract is better because even mild heat destroys some of the delicate aromatic flavors."

 

[C No Ego]

I'm pretty sure breeding is a lot more advanced in the past few decades, than it was hundreds or thousands of years ago. Couple that, with the focus towards high THC strains, and it's not hard to believe that modern Cannabis (especially unpollinaed buds) is far more potent in regard s to THC content and ratios.

Growing techniques have also vastly improved over the last few decades.


I think this thread is mainly focused on THC microdosing, since that's the main buzz causing chemical in Cannabis, and therefore, the main factor behind the buzz people are mentioning achieving while using small amounts.

In regards to alcohol and dosing, do you consider the doses different in the following two scenarios?

-Person A has no tolerance and drinks 3 beers in an hour.

-Person B has a high tolerance and drinks 3 beers in an hour.


I don't, which is why I don't buy into the "what's considered micro dosing is dependent on tolerance levels" mindset. I believe that if a person has a higher tolerance, and has to use more than a determined "micro dose" weight, they are no longer micro dosing, regardless of how mildly the perceive the effects.

The THC is still affecting their body, whether or not they are perceiving themselves to be very buzzed or not. Sure it might not be affecting them in the same exact way that it would a body that is not used to regular THC doses (the extent of this needs proper research as it differs from drug to drug), but it's like still affecting them more than they are perceiving. The level of buzz you achieve is not necessarily directly correlated with the physical effects that the THC is having on your body.

well, your example is like the police looking for trace cannabis when they pull you over... they do not care if you had cannabis a month ago and it shows on their test or if you had it an hour ago... you could argue inebriation or not- it would not matter if you test positive... that works for them and arrests but does not in any way represent a persons level of tolerable cannabis chemicals...

So, saying one size fits all is not representing how each person metabolizes cannabis chemicals... that is why a micro dose for one person would not be the correct amount for another, because of their metabolism

 

[Tranquility]

I don't think there is much literature out that there is any relationship between cannabis dosage and effect.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23937597
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4547548/

The studies that show a difference tend to use broad categories of usage as a measure or get to very specific effects. On a quick look, one interesting one had a low dose group suffer less anxiety than normal while a high dose group suffered more anxiety than normal or low dose. Interesting result in a microdosing thread. ( http://www.drugandalcoholdependence.com/article/S0376-8716(17)30220-X/fulltext )

 

[Diggy Smalls]

My girl does the tiniest amount you can even imagine, like two little specs of flower and it's how she avoids the anxiety that has always come with cannabis for her.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

well, your example is like the police looking for trace cannabis when they pull you over... they do not care if you had cannabis a month ago and it shows on their test or if you had it an hour ago... you could argue inebriation or not- it would not matter if you test positive... that works for them and arrests but does not in any way represent a persons level of tolerable cannabis chemicals...

So, saying one size fits all is not representing how each person metabolizes cannabis chemicals... that is why a micro dose for one person would not be the correct amount for another, because of their metabolism

That's not at all what I'm saying, because I am not claiming that the same dose will cause the same level of inebriation in everyone.

Do you consider the dose of those two alcohol drinking scenarios I posted to be the same or different?

It's clear both of those people would feel different levels of inebriation, but technically, the dose is the same.

It just so happens that due to tolerance, one dose won't cause the same buzz in everyone, but that doesn't mean everyone isn't still taking the same dose, if they consume the same amount.

I think people overestimate the individual variance of the metabolism of Cannabinoids within the body. Yes, tolerance affects how buzzed you feel, but there is a reason traces of the chemicals can be found for similar times in people with similar body types, regardless of their tolerance levels. The buzz you feel doesnt necessarily have a direct correlation with how the drug is metabolized.

 

[Ohmie]

Do you guys get the munchies from microdosing? I still do ocasionally but it's sometimey. That's how I measure my doses

 

[Squiby]

Do you guys get the munchies from microdosing? I still do ocasionally but it's sometimey. That's how I measure my doses

Depends on the strain. Raspberry cough. Always and from any dose it will have scouring the kitchen. Durban Poison, never. In fact it suppresses my appetite.

 

[ktmstick]

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/gv5p5y/a-brief-history-of-microdosing

 

[Ohmie]

Depends on the strain. Raspberry cough. Always and from any dose it will have scouring the kitchen. Durban Poison, never. In fact it suppresses my appetite.

That Durban sounds amazing. How's the high? I don't have much experience with named weed. I vape that public school type shit

 

[Diggy Smalls]

I do find a small dose will wet my appetite while a larger dose will suppress it. I get whatever I get, and sometimes I'm told a name, but I wouldn't bet any money on that name being accurate at all.

 

[Ohmie]

I do find a small dose will wet my appetite while a larger dose will suppress it. I get whatever I get, and sometimes I'm told a name, but I wouldn't bet any money on that name being accurate at all.

So small doses make you angry

 

[Diggy Smalls]

No, not angry, they make me hungry.

 

[Ohmie]

lol

 

[Squiby]

That Durban sounds amazing. How's the high? I don't have much experience with named weed. I vape that public school type shit

Durban Poison Is an original African Landrace strain that is high in THCV. THCV suppresses the appetite, reduces panic attacks, stimulates bone growth and may positively effect Alzheimer's.

It has a very stimulating, energetic, clear headed high. It is my go to daytime Sativa and it gives me the oomph to be active and productive throughout the day. It's a wonderful strain.

I vape both the bud and concentrate. I vape a tiny bit of bud, .015 gms every few hours or sometimes I load my Vapcap chamber with a cut down S&B concentrate pad and top it with shatter and have one toke every few hours. The concentrate in the Vapcap gives me an all day microsucker. Lasts all day and no need to reload.

 

[C No Ego]

That's not at all what I'm saying, because I am not claiming that the same dose will cause the same level of inebriation in everyone.

Do you consider the dose of those two alcohol drinking scenarios I posted to be the same or different?

It's clear both of those people would feel different levels of inebriation, but technically, the dose is the same.

It just so happens that due to tolerance, one dose won't cause the same buzz in everyone, but that doesn't mean everyone isn't still taking the same dose, if they consume the same amount.

I think people overestimate the individual variance of the metabolism of Cannabinoids within the body. Yes, tolerance affects how buzzed you feel, but there is a reason traces of the chemicals can be found for similar times in people with similar body types, regardless of their tolerance levels. The buzz you feel doesnt necessarily have a direct correlation with how the drug is metabolized.

the buzz is 100% reliant on metabolism... someone with a high metabolism will eat up those cannabinoids and not get as much effect as someone with a low metabolism that the noids slowly move through their system effecting them along the way.... then again, the person with the high metabolism will realize teh buzz quickly while the slow metabolism person will have an onset of effects...

for your alcohol example the dose was the same but presented to two different dose dependent individuals who do with that dose what they will.... the same with cannabis, same amount but two different metabolisms that break down those similar doses differently= different effects per each person

 

[EverythingsHazy]

the buzz is 100% reliant on metabolism... someone with a high metabolism will eat up those cannabinoids and not get as much effect as someone with a low metabolism that the noids slowly move through their system effecting them along the way.... then again, the person with the high metabolism will realize teh buzz quickly while the slow metabolism person will have an onset of effects...

for your alcohol example the dose was the same but presented to two different dose dependent individuals who do with that dose what they will.... the same with cannabis, same amount but two different metabolisms that break down those similar doses differently= different effects per each person

I'm not saying that metabolism has nothing to do with how you experience the buzz (onset/duration), but that I think it's a bit overstated here. If you take a bunch of people, with similar body sizes/compositions, who have never used Cannabis, and give them the same dose, I don't think they will have such vast differences in onset/duration. Will they be exactly the same? No. But I think they will fall within reasonable range of the averages for the group.

Also, when I was mentioning that the buzz isn't necessarily directly correlated with the effects the THC has on your body, I was saying that I don't believe that just because you experience a milder/shorter buzz, you are necessarily experiencing physical effects of THC to a lesser degree, and if you are experiencing them to a lesser degree, I don't think there is a 1:1 ratio between the perceived buzz level difference, and the degree to which the THC is affecting your body. The buzz effects are just the surface of the effects THC has on the body.

If someone vapes continuously (every waking hour taking a several huge hits) for several days and then takes 12 hours off to sober up as much as possible, and then vapes again, they will likely experience a far milder noticeable buzz than someone who has taken all of that time off of Cannabis use, but I doubt the degree to which the THC affects their body in various ways, is dulled to the same extent as the amount of buzz they feel from it.

 

[Ohmie]

That's not at all what I'm saying, because I am not claiming that the same dose will cause the same level of inebriation in everyone.

Do you consider the dose of those two alcohol drinking scenarios I posted to be the same or different?

It's clear both of those people would feel different levels of inebriation, but technically, the dose is the same.

It just so happens that due to tolerance, one dose won't cause the same buzz in everyone, but that doesn't mean everyone isn't still taking the same dose, if they consume the same amount.

I think people overestimate the individual variance of the metabolism of Cannabinoids within the body. Yes, tolerance affects how buzzed you feel, but there is a reason traces of the chemicals can be found for similar times in people with similar body types, regardless of their tolerance levels. The buzz you feel doesnt necessarily have a direct correlation with how the drug is metabolized.

I'd say the effects on the body happen before the thc effects, so as such it comes down to temperature and heating like @invertedisdead was saying. The newbs just aren't drawing right, maybe?

 

[C No Ego]

I'm not saying that metabolism has nothing to do with how you experience the buzz (onset/duration), but that I think it's a bit overstated here. If you take a bunch of people, with similar body sizes/compositions, who have never used Cannabis, and give them the same dose, I don't think they will have such vast differences in onset/duration. Will they be exactly the same? No. But I think they will fall within reasonable range of the averages for the group.

Also, when I was mentioning that the buzz isn't necessarily directly correlated with the effects the THC has on your body, I was saying that I don't believe that just because you experience a milder/shorter buzz, you are necessarily experiencing physical effects of THC to a lesser degree, and if you are experiencing them to a lesser degree, I don't think there is a 1:1 ratio between the perceived buzz level difference, and the degree to which the THC is affecting your body. The buzz effects are just the surface of the effects THC has on the body.

If someone vapes continuously (every waking hour taking a several huge hits) for several days and then takes 12 hours off to sober up as much as possible, and then vapes again, they will likely experience a far milder noticeable buzz than someone who has taken all of that time off of Cannabis use, but I doubt the degree to which the THC affects their body in various ways, is dulled to the same extent as the amount of buzz they feel from it.

Ok, first to show order of importance.... thc is termed a 'secondary metabolite" so any effects or gains noticed are 100% metabolic... the thc molecule once introduced to your biology has a 5 second half life... you realize it's active neuronal effects up to 5 seconds and then it is spent and turned over to waste elimination.... how much thc you introduce will matter in this regard as each molecule has a 5 second exposure to your active receptors before they are metabolized...
because of the short 5 sec half life that is the extent that thc has IMO... your cellular response will be longer as the decay of thc happens leaving an after effect but the 5 seconds of being active is the actual time period of activity... kind of busy today so not able to post fully here but will come back and commence discussion if warranted... peace out!

 

[Ohmie]

Ok, first to show order of importance.... thc is termed a 'secondary metabolite" so any effects or gains noticed are 100% metabolic... the thc molecule once introduced to your biology has a 5 second half life... you realize it's active neuronal effects up to 5 seconds and then it is spent and turned over to waste elimination.... how much thc you introduce will matter in this regard as each molecule has a 5 second exposure to your active receptors before they are metabolized...
because of the short 5 sec half life that is the extent that thc has IMO... your cellular response will be longer as the decay of thc happens leaving an after effect but the 5 seconds of being active is the actual time period of activity... kind of busy today so not able to post fully here but will come back and commence discussion if warranted... peace out!

But it wouldn't be a dose until the effects are no longer fealt. Like that one guy said @EverythingsHazy , " I vape once a day..That is, I wake up and vape until the days gone"

 

[C No Ego]

But it wouldn't be a dose until the effects are no longer fealt. Like that one guy said @EverythingsHazy , " I vape once a day..That is, I wake up and vape until the days gone"

well the dose is the active part ( bumping neurons) and when there is no activity the dose is over= non active... ( no neuronal bumping)

 

[Ohmie]

well the dose is the active part ( bumping neurons) and when there is no activity the dose is over= non active... ( no neuronal bumping)

Right, so the 5 sec half life(not that I know what a half life is exactly) I expect to be the body effects by way of impact. and the placebo of further processing and metabolization are the suspected thc effects i suppose.
The residual traces of use read by tests are what tho, vitamins? What?

 

[EverythingsHazy]

Psychoactive THC (not just inactive metabolites) is found in
the body days after consumption, though. It's not completely metabolized within hours of use.

 

[Ohmie]

Psychoactive thc that I don't primarily care about enough to acknowledge doesn't count as psychoactive imo