Marijuana Breathalyzers

[Shooby]

2018 will be the year we are introduced to marijuana breathalyzers now California has recreational marijuana.

Houndlabs.com is a company that will be making these available soon. Very interesting stuff. I just wonder how accurate it will be and if law enforcement will be adopting this tech on traffic stops ASAP.

 

[JCat]

Watched the "how it works" video (that doesn't actually explain how it works), and it says it measures it in your "breath" regardless of the way you consume it for 3 hours ...

What I wonder is does this mean it will measure it for 1.5 hours for some individuals and 12 hours for others? Or will it be exactly 3 hours for everyone? As well, what about the levels it will measure and how fast they will taper off for each individual user? Will this be consistent? ie. as a driver, can one say that if I have X amount of THC (in mg or some objective measurement), and I wait X amount of time, and I weight X amount, then this will be the affect and safety margin. (such as alcohol ... based on gender and weight, the BAC can be approximated quite well based on what one has consumed making it reasonable for users to police themselves)

On top of that ... even if the answer to all the above questions is such that it does result in a fair and objective test, there still lacks any evidence of a direct correlation between intoxication and the amount of cannabis one has consumed in any given time period or any measured concentration in any way it is obtained. (so in other words, if they make a certain level law, one can go to jail for it, because one is technically breaking the law, however, they are not driving intoxicated ... that's messed up! ... but hey ... we love to put people in jail for random things that have no impact on anyone else or anyone else's safety including their own ... how else do we keep the prison complex rolling?)

This is interesting as well ... yet another study indicating that drivers who have consumed some cannabis should really not be compared to drivers who have consumed alcohol (not comparing apples to apples here ...):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...new-federal-data-show/?utm_term=.eefad78d30e5

 

[Shooby]

The biggest questions will be....

How much marijuana causes impairment? I know it takes me a shit load and sometimes i cannot get impaired!

 

[ginolicious]

I don’t understand how this is possible. Pot does not linger in your mouth like alcohol does. It makes no sense. The only actual wait to receive a thc level is through urine. So I do not understand how this device is even capable of detecting it when thc and CBD is not detectable through saliva.

If someone actually has scientific data to support otherwise, please provide it to me

 

[JCat]

I don’t understand how this is possible. Pot does not linger in your mouth like alcohol does. It makes no sense. The only actual wait to receive a thc level is through urine. So I do not understand how this device is even capable of detecting it when thc and CBD is not detectable through saliva.

If someone actually has scientific data to support otherwise, please provide it to me

This was sort of one of my points above ... I watched the "how it works" video which failed to explain at all how it worked ... it's the "how it works" for 4 year olds I guess ... what they can show to politicians and law enforcement and advocacy groups to sell it without actually explaining any of the science or lack there of. The reality is, it doesn't have to be scientifically accurate ... they can pass the law to make it such that the breathalyzer result from this can be used in a court to get a conviction, and if they do that, then it is up to you to overturn the unconstitutional law to overturn your conviction (as you can't actually claim that you are not guilty of breaking the law, as you are, you just haven't done anything wrong ... but also like I said above ... what does doing anything wrong have to do with incarcerating people and taking away their freedom?)

 

[ginolicious]

This was sort of one of my points above ... I watched the "how it works" video which failed to explain at all how it worked ... it's the "how it works" for 4 year olds I guess ... what they can show to politicians and law enforcement and advocacy groups to sell it without actually explaining any of the science or lack there of. The reality is, it doesn't have to be scientifically accurate ... they can pass the law to make it such that the breathalyzer result from this can be used in a court to get a conviction, and if they do that, then it is up to you to overturn the unconstitutional law to overturn your conviction (as you can't actually claim that you are not guilty of breaking the law, as you are, you just haven't done anything wrong ... but also like I said above ... what does doing anything wrong have to do with incarcerating people and taking away their freedom?)

It’s a big problem. I have huge issues with it. It is unconstitutional. Get a conviction and leave it up to the defendant to have it over turned. I only say this as it’s what I do for s living. I rather not state my profession here. But you can fill in the blanks I guess.

 

[lazylathe]

It’s a big problem. I have huge issues with it. It is unconstitutional. Get a conviction and leave it up to the defendant to have it over turned. I only say this as it’s what I do for s living. I rather not state my profession here. But you can fill in the blanks I guess.

A lawyer walks into a bar. He sees a beautiful, well-dressed woman sitting on a bar stool.

He walks up to her and says, "Hi there, how's it going tonight?"

She turns to him, looks him straight in the eyes and says, "I'll screw anybody at any time, any where -- your place or my place, it doesn't matter one iota."

The guy raises his eyebrows and says, "No shit!?! What law firm do you work for?"

 

[DoStuffAndStuff]

In the UK the police have started using these quick swab things that swipe your tongue and give an indication of drug intoxication, including weed. No idea how it works but I don't think they can convict based on a positive result, it just allows them to arrest you and take a urine test (I'm guessing) for confirmation

 

[ginolicious]

I still don’t understand this mouth crap for marijuana. These levels are not in your mouth. It’s not like alcohol. You can’t get cocaine readings from breathalyzer. Alcohol lingers in the breath and blood. What if you eat an edible. It going to come up in your breath?

 

[ensabbahnur]

I have ZERO fear of this. THC doesn't work like alcohol and your expelled breath doesn't carry anything detectable aside from MAYBE terps but those are gone within a few breaths. This reminds me of those fake ass bomb/drug/nuclear/bio/immigrant detectors that were sold in the middle east and europe for DECADES that were literally nothing more than dowsing rods with plastic handles. IMO this is all scare tactics and hype. I remember when BAC meters came out and every one was pretty clear and verbose about how they worked so you couldn't get around them....if there was solid science behind this, they would present it.

 

[Tranquility]

If it is understood by users is irrelevant. There will be a portable breath test for THC that works at some point. It will then go through tests where the results are compared with levels derived through blood tests in some double blind study to verify it works. Defense attorneys will attack the test as unreliable and, eventually, testing protocols will be developed that make the test admissible in court.

Same as they did with alcohol breath testing.

Look at the literature for how many statistical assumptions are used in getting a BAC from exhaled breath. Lots of people have been convicted of a DUI--statistically.

 

[The Beagle]

In the UK the police have started using these quick swab things that swipe your tongue and give an indication of drug intoxication, including weed. No idea how it works but I don't think they can convict based on a positive result, it just allows them to arrest you and take a urine test (I'm guessing) for confirmation

Over here (Italy) they can quick swab you and if you are positive you'll need to take a blood test to check if you where impaired while driving, even if those results are questionable.

 

[DoStuffAndStuff]

Over here (Italy) they can quick swab you and if you are positive you'll need to take a blood test to check if you where impaired while driving, even if those results are questionable.

Same here, pretty much. They have to be quick to get you to the station and get a sample though, otherwise the stuff can be out of your system by then (depending what it is.) That's why there's a separate charge for failing to provide a specimen (of blood/urine) which carrys the same penalties as if you were found to be impaired.

I've heard rumours these swab tests can be beaten by using things like mouthwash and stuff just before. Never bothered trying it myself since I don't drive impaired.

 

[C No Ego]

UN Drug Treaty- it's keeping all these thought forms active and spreading fear and confusion across the world! when you get arrested for healing your cancer with plant medication the people in the world are completly fucked

 

[Tranquility]

Same here, pretty much. They have to be quick to get you to the station and get a sample though, otherwise the stuff can be out of your system by then (depending what it is.) That's why there's a separate charge for failing to provide a specimen (of blood/urine) which carrys the same penalties as if you were found to be impaired.

I've heard rumours these swab tests can be beaten by using things like mouthwash and stuff just before. Never bothered trying it myself since I don't drive impaired.

1. Where are you? (What jurisdiction?)
2. By "failing to provide a specimen", do you mean on demand from a police officer at the scene with a preliminary test or, later, at a station/hospital for the actual chemical testing?

In my state (CA), preliminary tests are not required by law while chemical tests are due to the theory of "implied consent". (Even though they can get a warrant to force testing under probable cause too.)

I don't see a lot of technical data on what is proposed, but it seems they are testing for actual THC in the breath with the device and not some metabolite or other indirect method and then translate to the blood concentration. To meet most states who have a per se limit of 5ng level, use would have to be very recent as blood levels go down rapidly.

 

[DoStuffAndStuff]

1. Where are you? (What jurisdiction?)
2. By "failing to provide a specimen", do you mean on demand from a police officer at the scene with a preliminary test or, later, at a station/hospital for the actual chemical testing?

In my state (CA), preliminary tests are not required by law while chemical tests are due to the theory of "implied consent". (Even though they can get a warrant to force testing under probable cause too.)

I don't see a lot of technical data on what is proposed, but it seems they are testing for actual THC in the breath with the device and not some metabolite or other indirect method and then translate to the blood concentration. To meet most states who have a per se limit of 5ng level, use would have to be very recent as blood levels go down rapidly.

Sorry, mentioned in my first post that I'm in the UK. And the failure to provide charge is mainly for when people refuse to provide blood/urine at the station from what I know. If you refuse the roadside test I'm not 100% sure, but I'm guessing a similar charge exists.

 

[Tranquility]

Sorry, mentioned in my first post that I'm in the UK. And the failure to provide charge is mainly for when people refuse to provide blood/urine at the station from what I know. If you refuse the roadside test I'm not 100% sure, but I'm guessing a similar charge exists.

You might look it up as a fairly standard advice here to those who are pulled over is to not do either the preliminary screening or the field sobriety test (FST) as the only role they have is add facts to a potential conviction and/or facts to lead to probable cause to arrest. (That can change depending on the jurisdiction and the underlying facts.) The most successful DUI defense is often attacking probable cause. I believe the UK standard is "suspicion" which is a lesser standard that is more akin to our "reasonable suspicion" standard required to detain a person.

In other words, while I don't know the law for the UK, as to if the preliminary test is required is a BIG DEAL here. It might not be as big a deal in the UK; however, I think it better to know how to tip the scales in your favor rather than just go along with the program and get a conviction.

 

[The Beagle]

I think it better to know how to tip the scales in your favor rather than just go along with the program and get a conviction.

This, absolutely.
Know your country's law, know your rights.

 

[grampa_herb]

And remember, kids, the police are trained to lie to you, but if you lie to them it is a crime.

 

[Rebelistic]

Isn't THC the stimulant part whereas CBD is the sedative? Ie testing for THC alone doesn't make sense.

 

[invertedisdead]

Founded by a venture capitalist/volunteer sheriff and his patent attorney partner...

Do you even loophole, bro?

And apparently in measures in picograms? (one trillionth of a gram...) lmfao I'd love to see the calibration process, I'm curious if this device can even be verified accurate?

 

[C No Ego]

Founded by a venture capitalist/volunteer sheriff and his patent attorney partner...

Do you even loophole, bro?

And apparently in measures in picograms? (one trillionth of a gram...) lmfao I'd love to see the calibration process, I'm curious if this device can even be verified accurate?

Fuck! we should be using th etech to help meausure peoples ECS levels and Heal them instead of arrest!!! what a joke people act like and stand tall WTF

 

[CarolKing]

Get high for science: Washington State researchers seek volunteers for breathalyzer study - Denver7 TheDenverChannel.com
The Denver Channel › news › local-news
May 22, 2017 · PULLMAN, Wash. – Researchers at Washington State University are looking for a few stoned volunteers to help develop a breathalyzer test for marijuana. KIRO-TV reports the scientists are ...

 

[invertedisdead]

Fuck! we should be using th etech to help meausure peoples ECS levels and Heal them instead of arrest!!! what a joke people act like and stand tall WTF

We have to come up with a business model where getting people healthy is more monetarily lucrative than getting them sick!

 

[Rebelistic]

Get high for science: Washington State researchers seek volunteers for breathalyzer study - Denver7 TheDenverChannel.com
The Denver Channel › news › local-news
May 22, 2017 · PULLMAN, Wash. – Researchers at Washington State University are looking for a few stoned volunteers to help develop a breathalyzer test for marijuana. KIRO-TV reports the scientists are ...

I think if they're using terms like "high" and "stoned" then they're not starting from a very scientific position and are prejudiced to begin with. I've no doubt that cannabis can have an effect on the brain/mind however they really need to be more specific and objective with what they're looking at.