Marijuana Addiction

[OO]

Now I often see people on this forum talk about marijuana and refer to it as non-addictive, but that may only be somewhat true. Most, if not all psychologist can agree that there are two types of addiction, mental addiction, and physical addiction.

Marijuana in my experience is mentally addictive, I.E. habit forming. It isn't for everybody, but in many cases it is obvious that there is difficulty breaking the habit. (This isn't such a good argument against its legalization IMHO, because just about everything can be considered mentally addictive to a certain degree, though the degree for pot is mediocre, for me it's less than coffee.)

Marijuana is not, in my experience, physically addicting, I.E. there are no withdrawal symptoms upon discontinuation of use (unless you consider insomnia, which most likely will occur for anybody who relies upon anything for sleep, and then immediately stops). Actually this is a misconception as Plotinus clears up HERE.


Now let me introduce the situation of one of my friends. He is a chronic marijuana smoker (no pun), who when he stops his use get sick, and violently ill, not unlike someone who quits cigarettes cold turkey. He wakes up with cold sweats, gets nervous, and sometimes even vomits. To anyone this appears to be withdrawal symptoms, but as he explained to me, he has horrible anxiety issues, and cannot approach a doctor about his treatment, for fear of being disowned by his parents (who don't have exposure to marijuana full stop, medical or recreational). His marijuana use has been to prevent his anxiety issues from obstructing his day to day life.

What are the views of this community regarding him?

 

[lwien]

It is not uncommon for a psychological addiction to manifest itself physically, and those physical manifestations can vary widely by quite a bit. For most, quitting after using MJ heavily for years may be just a slight annoyance, but for some, it can, such as what your friend is experiencing, quite dramatic.

 

[nr-cole]

Yup, I still wouldn't classify these as signs of a physical dependence, but mental addiction manifesting in physical symptoms.

Physically addictive substances create physical symptoms of withdrawal in the majority of people who stop using them. Their bodies, not their minds, have become dependent on those chemicals, and react poorly when they are taken away. They also tend to build up a physical resistance to the drug, requiring more to feel the effects. For example, after a week on morphine, the dose that would have killed you when you started will now have little to no effect. If this happened with cannabis, we'd all be flat broke.

 

[lwien]

Yeah, but don't underestimate psychological addictions, for they can be quite devastating, both physically and mentally and can have a major negative impact on ones life.

EVERYTHING has a flip side, even our beloved cannabis, so it would be wise to heed the use of the age old mantra of.............everything in moderation as boring as that sometimes can be. If one decides not to be moderate, than go in with eyes wide open and know the "possible" consequences and the ticket that sometimes needs to be paid for that ride. God only knows I've paid a few (not with cannabis though).

 

[aesthyrian]

I've always thought that someone who gets addicted to Marijuana is the same person who likes to drink soda everyday, watch too much TV or eat fast food all the time, or basically indulge in anything more than it is good for them. These people will abuse and misuse anything until they evaluate their lifestyle and habits and make a conscious effort to fix them. Hell, soda and fast food will have bigger physical withdrawal symptoms than weed too.

I'm sorry about your friend, sounds like a real catch 22. I'm not sure how to help him with his anxiety but if he is going to use Marijuana medicinally for it then he needs to make sure he doesn't get totally baked as this can just cause even greater anxiety. The key for him, I think, is simple moderation. Which isn't always so easy for everyone but I feel he would benefit much from it, and hopefully give him some confidence in his usage levels which seems to be keeping him from seeing a doctor.

The worst part is his parents and society's view on marijuana in his case. It can clearly help him, but using it to cure his anxiety is giving him more anxiety when it comes to seeing a doctor. If it was legal he would have already seen help I bet.

 

[Carbon]

I remember when I smoked a ton and then flat out stopped I found myself getting anxious and feeling uneasy and aggressive for no reason other than that I wasn't smoking.

As for cannabis being used to self-medicate for anxiety issues, there are other medications one can take to treat that without being stoned all day and night. What is his issue with going to the doctor? The guy can talk to the doctor about an issue without having to tell his parents. The doctor is technically not allowed to talk about what you tell him with anyone else.

 

[lwien]

The key for him, I think, is simple moderation. Which is always so easy for everyone ...........

That's just not true. For many, moderation is FAR from easy.

 

[Nycdeisel]

I agree. Underneath it all, it really only is a mental addiction. Though the mind IS a powerful thing, and you could bring on physical things as well.

I hate that person who indulges in everything, like TV, soda, and fast food. they really ARE addicted to these things, but can eventually take a much bigger toll then a lot of other things that could be dangerous, just look how high "Poor diet and physical inactivity" rank on this list drugwarfacts.org/cms/node/30

 

[aesthyrian]

The key for him, I think, is simple moderation. Which is always so easy for everyone ...........

That's just not true. For many, moderation is FAR from easy.

I should have proof read better, I meant "isn't", because like you said, it's not easy to moderate usage for many. Thanks for noticing that.

 

[lwien]

The key for him, I think, is simple moderation. Which is always so easy for everyone ...........

That's just not true. For many, moderation is FAR from easy.

I should have proof read better, I meant "isn't", because like you said, it's not easy to moderate usage for many. Thanks for noticing that.

Ahhh....ok, no problem. But yeah, psychological addictions can be devastating and in some cases, even more devastating than a physical addiction.

 

[rabblerouser]

I'd suggest he investigate conventional non-cannabis treatment for his anxiety. Cannabis can help, but regular medicine can be helpful too (shocking).

 

[tdavie]

It's hard for me to offer an opinion about your friend; I don't know him. All I can do is extrapolate from personal experience.

Do I use Cannabis on a regular, repeated basis? Yes, several times daily.
Do I derive medical benefit from it? Yes
Do I enjoy vaping/eating it? Yes
Do I worry about it not being available? Yes; I find I am buying enough for 2 months at a time. I am afraid of not having it.
Does anything suffer from my use of it? Other than a slightly smaller chance of reproducing, there are no detrimental effects on me that I am aware of. This includes other people.
Can I afford my Caannabis use without impact on any other facet of my life? Yes.
Has it ever affected my decisions? Yes, I find I am far less confrontational since using Cannabis on a regular basis.


According to the Addictions Foundation of Manitoba (where I live) I am addicted to Cannabis. I've taken the self scoring assessment and answered all of their questions honestly. But ya know what? I am addicted to 3 medications to control my hypertension. And not in a good sense. I quit cold turkey and I bet bad stuff starts to happen in a few months.

If I quit Cannabis, cold turkey, this instant, I've got no doubt I'd be a bit cranky (not at other people), and I wouldn't find junk food so attractive.

I've got empathy for what your friend is going through.

Tom

 

[aero18]

People do experience physical withdrawals from cannabis (profuse sweating, disruption of sleep, ill feelings). This makes me believe that it is not only mentally addicting, but perhaps physically as well. I don't think that we know enough to be certain that it is or isn't physically addicting. I would like to think that it is not, but I try to not get my preconceptions get in the way.

Your friend is not the only one. I have read about similar experiences time and time again on other forums. Physical withdrawals from cannabis do exist, and in some cases, they can be rather profound.

 

[Plotinus]

"Physical addiction" is a technical term, and it doesn't mean "anything that causes physical side effects." A physical addiction is one where a user's brain/body chemistry has become dependent on a substance. It's not possible with cannabis for two reasons:

1. Unlike drugs like ecstasy, which derive their main impact from freeing up chemicals that already occur naturally in your brain (a dopamine or serotonin rush), cannabis merely adds its own chemicals - cannabinoids - to your preexisting chemistry. Cannabinoids interact with their relevant receptors, but the don't cause any unusual releases of chemicals created by your own body, even endocannabinoids, the naturally-occurring brain chemicals that cannabis most resembles.

2. Because cannabinoids are fat-soluble lipids, they stay in your body long after you've stopped using. (This is why drug tests can catch cannabis use for up to a month after you've ceased.) For this reason it would be extremely difficult, if not altogether impossible, to create a cannabinoid deficit that would precipitate a real chemical reaction - you simply have too many cannabinoids coursing through you for too long after last use.

Suddenly ceasing cannabis use can have physical symptoms. Some have already been mentioned here, but there's also overproduction of saliva, watery eyes, and mild mood swings. In general, though, the intensity of these side effects won't be any greater than, say, a habitual coffee-drinker who suddenly goes cold turkey. You might experience some discomfort for a few days or weeks, but it's nothing like the actual withdrawal from a physically addicting (read: chemistry-altering) substance such as opiates.

Real withdrawal from a physical addiction can actually kill you, under the right circumstances. "Trainspotting" is a good reference for those who want to get an idea of what it's like. Cannabis can't come close to producing those kinds of effects, because its impact on the brain is too mild.

Best of luck to your friend. If he feels it's affecting his life, that certainly falls within the definition of addiction. He should take comfort in knowing that after a week or two of mild discomfort, he'll likely feel right as rain. (Unless he was using the cannabis for medicine, in which case we would need more information.)

 

[OO]

Thank you very much Plotinus for clearing up my misconceptions.

 

[Pappy]

I gave up smoking cigarettes three times which makes me a three time loser. Then, in 1985, I quit smoking cigarettes. This debate is a bit of a red herring because people get addicted to drugs -- drugs do not addict people! Now I wouldn't mess around with heroin or amphetamine because it can wreak havoc with mind, body, and spirit -- but pot?

An addictive personality could certainly got strung out on weed but marijuana would have very little to do with it. Maybe the real question should be does marijuana make you lazy? Sure makes me lazy!

 

[OO]

I gave up smoking cigarettes three times which makes me a three time loser. Then, in 1985, I quit smoking cigarettes. This debate is a bit of a red herring because people get addicted to drugs -- drugs do not addict people! Now I wouldn't mess around with heroin or amphetamine because it can wreak havoc with mind, body, and spirit -- but pot?

An addictive personality could certainly got strung out on weed but marijuana would have very little to do with it. Maybe the real question should be does marijuana make you lazy? Sure makes me lazy!

i'm under the impression that you didn't read the thread .

next time, please try to include more information relevant to the topic discussed in the first post.
^
courtesy advice.

 

[lwien]

1. Unlike drugs like ecstasy, which derive their main impact from freeing up chemicals that already occur naturally in your brain (a dopamine or serotonin rush), cannabis merely adds its own chemicals - cannabinoids - to your preexisting chemistry.

THC also affects dopamine levels.

 

[Nycdeisel]

But cannabis does not directly affect dopamine like other, harder drugs do. Dopamine would be indirectly caused by OTHER feelings possibly caused by cannabis.

There are a LOT of factors that play into this type of thing, so just keep that in mind.

 

[Plotinus]

Sure, dopamine is affected by the experience of being stoned. Much like riding a roller coaster or eating a piece of cake would affect it. I just meant that nothing in cannabis is going to open up your dopamine stores trapdoor style, the way truly physically addictive drugs - opiates, amphetamines, mdma - do.

 

[Nycdeisel]

Exactly, thats what I was trying to get across, but you phrased it better

 

[aero18]

Thank you very much Plotinus for clearing up my misconceptions.

Likewise! Plotinus, thanks for your contribution!

 

[lwien]

Sure, dopamine is affected by the experience of being stoned. Much like riding a roller coaster or eating a piece of cake would affect it. I just meant that nothing in cannabis is going to open up your dopamine stores trapdoor style, the way truly physically addictive drugs - opiates, amphetamines, mdma - do.

Ya know, I've read papers on this too, Plot, and you hear two different stories two different ways. While I agree that it doesn't affect dopamine levels to the same degree as opiates, coke and speed, I do think it has more of a pronounced affect than eating a piece of cake, as you say. But from everything that I've read on it, the jury's still out and more studies on how THC/CBN's and CBD's affect the brain need to be done. But fuck, they don't even know how Aspirin works.

 

[Carbon]

"Physical addiction" is a technical term, and it doesn't mean "anything that causes physical side effects." A physical addiction is one where a user's brain/body chemistry has become dependent on a substance. It's not possible with cannabis for two reasons:

How do you define "dependant?" Cannabis does change one's brain chemistry, and your body will accommodate for frequent use. Once you cease use, your body is still in the mode of accommodating for this and cannot react immediately to return to equilibrium; it will take some time as we all know. Just because the effect may not be as pronounced as say cocaine dependency doesn't mean there isn't still a bit of dependency going on.

Again, cannabis is not even close to as bad as far as addiction as many other drugs, but like other substances you take and then cease taking, you will experience withdrawal. When you experience withdrawal, this can be remedied by consuming the substance again, and often times you will want to because of how you feel. How is this not addiction?

The problem comes when we try to draw lines in the sand for "mental" vs. "physical" addiction when the two aren't as black and white as some try to suggest.

 

[lwien]

^^ I remember when I first started snorting coke. Word was, even in the scientific and medical communities, that it was only psychologically addictive and not physically addictive. I believe we've proven that wrong over the years and the same thing may happen with cannabis. Either way, even if MJ is just psychologically addictive, that does not make it any less of a concern regarding it's potential addictive qualities and the potential negative issues that could arise from that. Like I previously stated, psychological addictions can be a mother fucker to deal with.

I've been involved in a lot of discussions on this and it is apparent that there are many in our community, not necessarily here, but in the MJ community in general, who are totally in denial as to the possible dangers here and the only rational that one can come up with is that they don't want anything negative to come between them and their bud consumption. Hmmmmm...........couldn't that also be a classic sign of addiction?

One just has to consider that this is a substance that alters the way your brain works and alters your perception of reality, to come to the conclusion that while it is not as dangerous as some of the other commonly used drugs, it is not totally benign for if it was, it wouldn't be able to do what it does.