Marijuana Addiction

[DevoTheStrange]

From what I have seen and experienced I would say that there is a definitely a small portion of the population who becomes psychologically addicted to MJ. I have friends who are extreme heavy users and have seen them just up and quit one day and not smoke for a year or two with no problems. I have also seen a few try to stop and pretty much fail. These small few would have severe anxiety attacks, insomnia, lack of appetite etc. etc. I even saw one person go so far as to hide her continual use after she told everyone she quit MJ (which to me is a sign of addiction). However with all these people I have seen have problems with not being able to quit. They all had one thing in common. They smoked/vaped to reduce and stamp out stress. Whenever something stressful or anxiety inducing happened to them, instead of trying to fix the cause of the stress just relied on getting stoned. The didn't do anything whatsoever to fix their problems other than just get stoned and forget about it.
If there is one thing I have learned in all the therapy I have gone through in my life... No amount of medication will fix your problems if you are not willing to also mentally work through them as well. If there is no mental work to tie in with the medication, in this case Marijuana, then the meds will become a crutch. And once they become a crutch you are lost without them because you never developed the skills to deal with your stress and anxiety

ive seen this happen to several people, so much that it caused me to change how i use MJ. I have learned never to use it when I am pissed off or knees deep in an anxiety attack. I wait until I calm down. Once my problem is dealt with, then I allow myself to partake... but not before.
Before whenever I ran out of herb I would notice I would get a little bit anxious... but now with these new rules, if I run out I am of the mindset of "Oh Well, I'm out... no worries"

 

[Plotinus]

Yeah, I feel the need to clarify and say that

1. I am not at all trying to gloss over the very real dangers of dependency and addiction when it comes to cannabis. They certainly exist. I'm making a more academic distinction. The takeaway from what I wrote above shouldn't be that cannabis is harmless, but that the ways in which it can be dangerous are different from the ways that opiates are dangerous;

and

2. It is certainly true that more research is needed to definitively establish all the ways that cannabis affects the human mind. It's the nature of the scientific process that there will always be more research to be done.

Those things said, I don't accept a couple of premises that are haunting the edges of this conversation, namely that we know so little about cannabis's effects on the brain that we can't say much of anything about it, and that cannabis in some respects is as dangerous as opiates or amphetamines. This simply isn't true.

We know a great deal about how cannabis works on the human brain, from research dating back to the 50s, when Israelis isolated THC for the first time. There are a number of cannabinoids that are not well understood, but we have as good an understanding of the fundamental interaction - what receptors the cannabinoids plug into, and what they result in - as we're likely ever going to have. I embrace and celebrate skepticism in all things, but there has to be a reasonable threshold of belief when it comes to medical science.

Then again, there's this... http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/11/lies-damned-lies-and-medical-science/8269

 

[Egzoset]

I have a confession to make: i'm addicted!

...to sprite diet...

 

[lwien]

Y

Those things said, I don't accept a couple of premises that are haunting the edges of this conversation, .......that cannabis in some respects is as dangerous as opiates or amphetamines. This simply isn't true.

Who here has implied that? Surely, not I. What I DID say is that psychological addictions CAN be just as devastating on ones life as physical addictions. I can bring up some examples of that if you wish.

 

[crawdad]

interestingly (or sadly) the only true addiction i have seen before is from prescription drugs. i label it an addiction due to what happens when you attempt to quit using it.

the experience i speak of is from mood/emotion altering pills that my wife has been on for years, she is almost off of them but its taking over a year or so or slowly backing down the dosage (multiple pills i might add). if you quit cold turkey or even too quick you can end up seriously suicidal among other strange feelings, way out of control. some reports i read online indicated some people event felt "bugs crawling under their skin" and similar bizarre reactions to the one she is getting off of...and its a common one i might add that doctors prescribe. the amount of time you are on them makes a difference to withdrawal reactions.

if its just something i want because i like what it does, id call that habitual but not a true dependence which is what i would label as addicting. the issue comes down to "who is in control here" i think.

 

[Egzoset]

No, seriousy!

...i mean, i do feel very bad after two days without my sprite diet!!!



mod note: Your posts here are off topic.

 

[DevoTheStrange]

what i find interesting is how people can use marijuana as an exit drug to help them come off a strong addiction to another drug. I know I have done it at least once, MJ helped me stop my benzo dependancy.

 

[crawdad]

yeah, funny how it's often referred to as the gateway drug when more often (from talking face to face with others) it seems to be the exit drug.

im drinking a lot less than before, the effect i was going for with alkyhal has been partially replaced with something far more natural for my body and the effect is way more desired. i still drink, but way less and id down shine by the bottle.

one could say that im addicted to chocolate chip cookies and pasteurized milk from heavily medicated cows was the gateway drug. oh yeah, got milk?

 

[Egzoset]

Chips, chocolate and milk...



Now that's what a real addiction is!

 

[Pappy]

'm under the impression that you didn't read the thread .
next time, please try to include more information relevant to the topic discussed in the first post.

Sometimes I can be a meathead instead of a pothead. Rereading your OP it occurs to me you wrote it backwards. Actually it's about yoru friend's dilemma but you don't get to it until the last paragraph and don't pose a question until the last sentence. I must admit it threw me off.

 

[lwien]

I have a confession to make: i'm addicted!
...to sprite diet...


No, seriousy!
...i mean, i do feel very bad after two days without my sprite diet!!!


Chips, chocolate and milk...

Now that's what a real addiction is !

See, this is pretty typical of responses that one gets when discussing the potential downsides of cannabis and I really do think that an attempt at diminishing the potential downsides to that of drinking sprite and milk and/or eating cookies and cake is far from being a valid analogy because for some, quitting multi-year chronic use of MJ can prove to be a MAJOR undertaking and for some, the continued use of MJ can have a very detrimental affect on their lives, and yet, they continue to use anyway.

 

[Egzoset]

Well, if you dont like what comes from the fridge then try codeine, which comes with acetaminophene...

 

[pakalolo]

Y

Those things said, I don't accept a couple of premises that are haunting the edges of this conversation, .......that cannabis in some respects is as dangerous as opiates or amphetamines. This simply isn't true.

Who here has implied that? Surely, not I. What I DID say is that psychological addictions CAN be just as devastating on ones life as physical addictions. I can bring up some examples of that if you wish.

I'm more interested in the omitted part of that quote, namely:

Those things said, I don't accept a couple of premises that are haunting the edges of this conversation, namely that we know so little about cannabis's effects on the brain that we can't say much of anything about it...

As I read through this thread I kept seeing references to this attitude, basically accepting that ye, we don't know much/enough yet. I was glad to see Plotinus debunk that, because I followed marijuana studies closely for many years, and the idea that we still don't know enough to make a judgment drives me crazy. We most certainly do, but the anti-marijuana forces like to perpetuate this myth because it makes them looks reasonable: "We might support legalization if only we knew enough to be sure it was safe..." That's nonsense, and often they know it.

As for my own circumstances, I was a 1-2 joint a day smoker for over 30 years, then I needed an angioplasty. I told my doctors about my usage and they simply shrugged it off, it just wasn't relevant to my condition as far as they were concerned. Nonetheless, fear kept me from touching weed for a couple of years. I never at any time felt anything more than a simple, "Boy, I bet this would be really nice if I were stoned!" thought occasionally.

Incidentally, to be clear my fear was never of addiction, it was of the bad effects of combustion.

 

[Plotinus]

Iwien, sounds like we're in agreement. Sorry if I misunderstood you.

 

[lwien]

Iwien, sounds like we're in agreement. Sorry if I misunderstood you.

Not a problem, Plot. As verbose as I can sometimes be, being misunderstood kind of comes with the territory. I need to try and be more concise sometimes.

 

[lwien]

As I read through this thread I kept seeing references to this attitude, basically accepting that ye, we don't know much/enough yet. I was glad to see Plotinus debunk that, because I followed marijuana studies closely for many years, and the idea that we still don't know enough to make a judgment drives me crazy. We most certainly do, but the anti-marijuana forces like to perpetuate this myth because it makes them looks reasonable: "We might support legalization if only we knew enough to be sure it was safe..." That's nonsense, and often they know it.

While it's true that the anti-marijuana forces like to play this card, it's also true that pro-marijuana forces like to debunk it. I do believe that the truth lies somewhere in the middle, as most things do.

Consider this. Science knows a hell of a lot more about how our bodies work than how our brains work. I think we can both agree that science is still learning how cannabis affects our bodies in relationship to various diseases and the possible positive contributions it may bring in helping to treat those diseases. New information is coming forth as we speak. But, our knowledge in how our brain works, by comparison, is still in it's infancy, so.............there's much to learn there, eh?

As for my own circumstances, I was a 1-2 joint a day smoker for over 30 years, then I needed an angioplasty. I told my doctors about my usage and they simply shrugged it off, it just wasn't relevant to my condition as far as they were concerned. Nonetheless, fear kept me from touching weed for a couple of years. I never at any time felt anything more than a simple, "Boy, I bet this would be really nice if I were stoned!" thought occasionally.

Incidentally, to be clear my fear was never of addiction, it was of the bad effects of combustion.

Yeah, I agree that a fear of addiction isn't really warranted, but a recognition that addiction is a possibility for some is warranted and that we just all need to be cognizant of the possibilities rather than deny that they exist.

 

[Egzoset]

If the fear of addiction had dictated prohibition of a product prior to its marketting then my bet is we'd all live in a very tense and frustrated society... Cannabis is having an unfair treatment, it's that simple to me.

 

[pakalolo]

Consider this. Science knows a hell of a lot more about how our bodies work than how our brains work. I think we can both agree that science is still learning how cannabis affects our bodies in relationship to various diseases and the possible positive contributions it may bring in helping to treat those diseases. New information is coming forth as we speak. But, our knowledge in how our brain works, by comparison, is still in it's infancy, so.............there's much to learn there, eh?

Agreed. My point is that while there is much to be learned about effects of marijuana on the brain and how it can affect diseases, we already know enough to make a judgment on its safety. It's not as though tomorrow someone will make a discovery and suddenly we find out we're all going to die. (Actually we are, but you get my drift here.) The first major study of cannabis was concluded in 1894 (the Indian Hemp Commission) and every major study since, including the La Guardia Committee (US, 1944), the Le Dain Commission (Canada, 1972) and the National Commission on Marihuana [sic] and Drug Abuse (US, 1972) has found that the damage caused by prohibition outweighs the damage caused by weed.

 

[lwien]

Yeah, I agree. They're not going to find out that weed is going to kill us, but there are continuing studies of how THC and it's associated compounds affect our brains both positively and negatively.

There is an obvious polarization going on between two camps. One, the anti-marijuana camp, and the other, the pro-marijuana camp and from everything that I have read, both camps have put out questionable data on the pros and cons of cannabis. One camp will say that it's a gateway drug and that it causes brain cell destruction, while the other camp says that MJ is totally innocuous. To me, both of those statements are bogus, and therefore, we really need to keep an open mind to all this.

To me, any substance that has the power to alter our state of reality by altering our brain chemistry has the potential to do harm if abused and therefore, moderation is key. It just seems logical to me but that surly doesn't make me right.

 

[Nycdeisel]

I also think that the dangers of cannabis are mainly from irresponsible use, especially when I see people who will encourage cannabis use to ANYONE and think "oh its just this, its perfectly fine". Cannabis use can be fine and dandy for responsible users, but for people who are not, well there is another story(such as that that you ^ are discussing).

I think that with all the real studies that have been done, we are at a good pace with our research.

 

[Egzoset]

Cannabis is not the problem, the person (not everyone) is. So, it's going to be a while before the matter finally gets handled adequately through education in North America!

 

[crawdad]

Cannabis is not the problem, the person (not everyone) is. So, it's going to be a while before the matter finally gets handled adequately through education in North America!

This. The matter is pretty simple in my mind as well yet many tend to complicate it and grind out various aspects of it in mental debates. This imho adds to the amount of time it's going to take to "change thinking" in our country/world for which i have little faith for.

It reminds me of people who do not believe in the holy bible having debates about it, having to use it to debunk it. They get so caught up in the endless debates with specifics (research, thinking, etc) while a simple "i don't believe it" is all that is really needed and actually is more appropriate.

Sorry if i helped to derail this, just wanted to add another take on this. The whole idea that its addicting is ridiculous and i feel the burden of proof should be on the other side of the table, we have no reason to debunk it since there is no reasonable explanation of the postulate. Not saying we shouldnt talk about it or have opinions, just stating mine...done!

(i really did use caps)

 

[Rick]

Lets see here.
Sugar, salt, coffee, bacon, booze, smokes, gasoline, hi blood pressure pills, terlit paper, water, internet connection, electricity oh fuck and on and on. Addictions in some way to many/all of us. But guess what? They all got the money honey. It has been long established how to produce these items and make money for the powers that be. The ones in control need their money, their regular daily money before they let us officially have it and the word addiction becomes a moot point.
It is not just the money from it but more the money that will be lost because of legal MJ, particularly in the drug industry.
Addicted or not, MJ has been part of my life for right on 45 years. Our health is good. Our life is good. Our attitude is good. All related to the stuff and how one of my addictions affected my life totally and completely.
They are fucking afraid of it. It will tear down the established power/money structure. So it is ADDICTING, a bad word in our culture. Hell, I am addicted to my morning dump within two minutes of my feet hitting the floor every day.

 

[Egzoset]

The burden of proof... Exactly: cannabis gets a different treatment!

:/

 

[lwien]

Lets see here.
Sugar, salt, coffee, bacon, booze, smokes, gasoline, hi blood pressure pills, terlit paper, water, internet connection, electricity oh fuck and on and on. Addictions in some way to many/all of us. But guess what? They all got the money honey. It has been long established how to produce these items and make money for the powers that be. The ones in control need their money, their regular daily money before they let us officially have it and the word addiction becomes a moot point.
It is not just the money from it but more the money that will be lost because of legal MJ, particularly in the drug industry.
Addicted or not, MJ has been part of my life for right on 45 years. Our health is good. Our life is good. Our attitude is good. All related to the stuff and how one of my addictions affected my life totally and completely.
They are fucking afraid of it. It will tear down the established power/money structure. So it is ADDICTING, a bad word in our culture. Hell, I am addicted to my morning dump within two minutes of my feet hitting the floor every day.

I believe that one of the most accurate definition of addiction is when one is involved in doing something that they know is having a MAJOR negative impact on their lives but continue to do it anyway. Do the above examples fall under that category?

There is no doubt that many can do things and never become addicted to the exact same things that others have a real problem with. Anecdotal evidence of stating that, "Fuck, I'm not addicted to it therefore it can't be addicting", just doesn't play out.