Magical Butter

t-dub

Vapor Sloth
Getting my lab ready to safely make MBO/RSO with an induction hot plate with a beautiful non stick pan from TeChef . . . :D

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ilpage_o02_s00&redirect=true&psc=1&pldnSite=1
http://www.amazon.com/TeChef-Frying...=1411950100&sr=1-1&keywords=techef+casa+verde

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momofthegoons

vapor accessory addict
Just read about this and thought I would pass it along. Don't throw away that sludge at the bottom of your MB2 guys and gals. If you mix it with epsom salts, you will get something like this:

10zsj86.jpg


Apparently it sells for big bucks and is great for a soothing bath. This is what was said about it:

Skin crawling muscle spasms were shut off with a medicated bath. It was like stewing in Peace Soup.

Certainly worth a try!
 

FlyingLow

Team NO SLEEP!
I did not even know about a MB3 until I read these last 10+ posts....

To wait or not to wait?
Whats the right decision?
Is there a MB3 spec sheet? I did not see it on their site.
 
FlyingLow,

Zondo

Just that dude
For those that want to vape oil, here is what I got from the people at Magicalbutter

Here are 2 ways to accomplish your goal:

1. If you want to make it with vegetable glycerin to be used in a vape pen here is the recipe:

1 1/2 cups vegetable glycerin
1/4 cup propylene glycol
1/4 distilled water
2.5 oz of botanicals

This version will not be as potent because cannabis works best with fats and sugars. You are better off doing option number 2.

2. Make MBO (Cannabis oil) first which is as followed:

750 milligrams of Everclear 190 proof grain alcohol
1/2 cup of water (due to 5000 feet elevation)
2.5 oz of botanicals

Select the “Temperature” button and set it at 160ºF then press the “4 Hours/Tincture” button.
After the cycle is finished, let rest for 30 minutes. Strain into a no-stick saucepan.
Place it on low heat on your stove or hot plate and bring to a slow boil. CAUTION: Materials are highly flammable. Could cause injury. Never use an open flame, gas, or propane burner or permit smoking around the cooking process.
Continue to cook for 40-45 minutes. Patience is essential. Cooking time will vary based on a variety of factors.
Consistently stir the oil off the sides of the sauce pan until the consistency reaches that of warm maple syrup.
Remove from heat. Let cool

You will end up with about 1/2 cup of very potent cannabis oil.
You would then take the oil and combine it with all the ingredients from option one minus the 2.5 oz of botanicals because they are in your oil and run it at 160 degrees for 1 hour.

I hope this helps you out. Please let me know if you have any additional questions.

Best regards,

Iza

Iza
MagicalButter.com Support Team
iza@magicalbutter.com
 

stressed

Well-Known Member
i'm just about to make a new batch of oil. i was talking to a couple who bake stuff to ingest their pot. we got talking about regulating dosages and i told them how much i can vary the high just with one capsule.

i gave them a few canna caps and they liked the ease of taking them so much they just bought an MB2 and will cut out the food part of eating pot and just eat the capsules from now on.

after reading reports of the different actual dosages in edibles sold at dispensaries, i'm going to stick to my home made caps. there is nothing like knowing how much you are actually eating.

the only thing i don't like about eating some pot is the racing heart that hits me before the 2 hour mark. i used a sativa dominant genetic and i had to go from eating 4 capsules at one time to eating 2, and 30 to 45 mins later eating 2 more.

this batch i'm using a more indica dominant genetic. i'm curious to see the difference.
 

Dawntreader

Kayakist
k0nYdaT.jpg
This is my first attempt at cannacoconut butter. Each cube is slightly less than a teaspoon. It tastes amazing to me and 1 teas has been pretty effective in delivering a beautiful body high :)

@Maryjane Clurricane , your cookies sound so delish! My ratio here was alittle less than a quarter bud (decarbolized) to 1 cup coconut oil 4 hours in crockpot on low, cooled overnight and strained in morning. I just bought a scale so my next batch will be more precisely measured...i would trade for some gingersnaps! LOL!
 
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ButterMan

Active Member
Ok folks so I never reported back because the butter got eaten up by friends popping over for a visit. It was strong for them but weak for me. For my type of daily body pain I need something much stronger - so after careful consideration and research I'm finding that a dry decarb in the oven 250 degrees for 60 min? Would be what I need to make a more potent butter or tincture. Do I grind or leave the buds whole? Anyone at FC ever decarb inside a turkey bag? Thanks I'm new here :myday:
 
ButterMan,
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t-dub

Vapor Sloth
How do you know the "decarb" cycle on the MB2 uses the selected temp? I got the impression that it was separate from the temp select for processing because you would want the same decarb every time regardless of processing procedure afterwards. Also how do you know about the THC-A level in your butter? Did you have it lab tested? This discussion really should be in the MB2 thread.
 
t-dub,

ButterMan

Active Member
How do you know the "decarb" cycle on the MB2 uses the selected temp? I got the impression that it was separate from the temp select for processing because you would want the same decarb every time regardless of processing procedure afterwards. Also how do you know about the THC-A level in your butter? Did you have it lab tested? This discussion really should be in the MB2 thread.
I'm an old guy and I don't know much about this stuff - please excuse my FC ignorance and Mis posting I'm new here and just looking for a way to make my days more tolerable. My injuries keep me in a constant state of pain but I've found recently that a strong tincture is really what I need - it keeps me comfortable for longer than any butter I've ever made. Lab tested? I was not aware you could do this. Another user mentioned RSO to me. What is RSO? and Is it high in THC? High THC stuff is the only thing I've found that will keep my pain at bay. Thanks all! Peace and Love
 
ButterMan,
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momofthegoons

vapor accessory addict
I never, ever go past 160 degrees when using the MB machine. I don't see any point to it. I decarb prior to using the machine, however, since the built in decarb feature really doesn't do it's job. Decarbing in a turkey bag is a great option, but not necessary. Foil works just fine.
 

ButterMan

Active Member
I never, ever go past 160 degrees when using the MB machine. I don't see any point to it. I decarb prior to using the machine, however, since the built in decarb feature really doesn't do it's job. Decarbing in a turkey bag is a great option, but not necessary. Foil works just fine.
Thanks @momofthegoons I'm going to try this whole decarb thing for the first time but I'm freakin out about putting these beautiful botanicals in the oven:lol:
Should I grind the botanicals if using a turkey bag for the decarb? What Temperature should the oven be at and for how long do I leave it in the oven?
 
ButterMan,

t-dub

Vapor Sloth
What is RSO? and Is it high in THC?
RSO = Rick Simpson Oil or Phoenix Tears. MBO = magical butter machine oil. They are basically the same except we are using the MB2 instead of a rice cooker or crock pot. The final reduction will be done on my induction cook top pictured above. This stuff is great for pain and is very pure. Welcome to the forum :)
 

ButterMan

Active Member
RSO = Rick Simpson Oil or Phoenix Tears. MBO = magical butter machine oil. They are basically the same except we are using the MB2 instead of a rice cooker or crock pot. The final reduction will be done on my induction cook top pictured above. This stuff is great for pain and is very pure. Welcome to the forum :)
Thank you very much for the welcome :) and the knowledge! MBO sounds like it's exactly what I'm looking for - I'm assuming it's high in THC? That induction cook top looks very cool :haw:
 
ButterMan,
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ButterMan

Active Member
One more for you.
When making MBO do you still need to do a dry decarb in the oven before putting into the MB? Thanks
 
ButterMan,

momofthegoons

vapor accessory addict
Thanks @momofthegoons I'm going to try this whole decarb thing for the first time but I'm freakin out about putting these beautiful botanicals in the oven:lol:
Should I grind the botanicals if using a turkey bag for the decarb? What Temperature should the oven be at and for how long do I leave it in the oven?
Just make sure you don't go too high on your temp or leave it in the oven too long.

My standard decarb is 1 hour in the oven at 200 degrees. Then I pop my foil packet into the freezer for an hour.

The MB machine will grind your material pretty well, but if you are using actual bud, I would definitely grind first (I use trim for the salve I make and there's not too much bud to it). You also want to make sure the stems are out.

Since you are using bud, you might also find that you can use the turkey bag again for some food item. There will probably be some residue on the bag that would seep into your edible. :) Worth a try anyway.
 

ButterMan

Active Member
When I was in town yesterday I ran into a friend of mine who is a professor of organic chemistry. I asked him a series of questions regarding the decarboxylation of THC-A. He explained to me that to truly decarb the material it must be dry and exposed to the air. When wet or soaked in butter or whatever the THC-A won't fully convert to THC - Liquid appears to effect how freely the molecules can vibrate. The THC-A molecules have an arm that reach off of them called a carboxyl group (essentially co2) this is the weakest bond in the molecule.
When molecules are dry heated they begin to vibrate rapidly and the weakest bond breaks first. So when we decarb in the oven we are heating up the molecules of THC-A until the carboxyl group of co2 breaks off and is released. If we do not decarb the carboxyl group remains and blocks the receptors in our body from absorbing the THC. This means that if you don't decarb most of the THC-A never gets converted to THC and you end up ingesting mostly THC-A which is rejected by your receptors and just gets wasted. Your own body heat will decarb THC-A somewhat but it takes a long time and is not a dry decarb so this may be why some feel slight effects well after taking meds that have not been decarboxylated. When i asked him about the turkey bag decarb he replied "huh that makes sense" haha I was also informed that a proper decarb is done at 240 degrees for 50-60 min. I'm very excited to try this today :)
 

fft

Well-Known Member
When I was in town yesterday I ran into a friend of mine who is a professor of organic chemistry. I asked him a series of questions regarding the decarboxylation of THC-A. He explained to me that to truly decarb the material it must be dry and exposed to the air. When wet or soaked in butter or whatever the THC-A won't fully convert to THC - Liquid appears to effect how freely the molecules can vibrate. The THC-A molecules have an arm that reach off of them called a carboxyl group (essentially co2) this is the weakest bond in the molecule.
When molecules are dry heated they begin to vibrate rapidly and the weakest bond breaks first. So when we decarb in the oven we are heating up the molecules of THC-A until the carboxyl group of co2 breaks off and is released. If we do not decarb the carboxyl group remains and blocks the receptors in our body from absorbing the THC. This means that if you don't decarb most of the THC-A never gets converted to THC and you end up ingesting mostly THC-A which is rejected by your receptors and just gets wasted. Your own body heat will decarb THC-A somewhat but it takes a long time and is not a dry decarb so this may be why some feel slight effects well after taking meds that have not been decarboxylated. When i asked him about the turkey bag decarb he replied "huh that makes sense" haha I was also informed that a proper decarb is done at 240 degrees for 50-60 min. I'm very excited to try this today :)

Crashing the MB thread even though I don't own the machine. I've always wondered about dry vs wet decarb and this is the first time I've seen an explanation as to why it should be dry. The oft-quoted Skunk Pharm's page on decarb talks about how they do their decarb in the oil state after the infusion, and they hold out the CO2 bubbles as proof that the decarb taking place. I've also seen some patents where they do the decarb in a similar wet fashion.

It could be that its the water molecule that makes the difference, so if you cook off the water in the butter machine by going above 212F maybe that's going to work better. One reason to favor a wet process is that heat transfer is going to be much better which should give you a faster, more even decarb.

Just reading the thread here I would be hesitant to decarb much below 200F unless I am planning to cook it for a long time. I was reading a 2010 paper where they figured out the reaction rate constants for THCA decarboxlyation. Plugging in different temps into the first-order rate equation showed how sensitive decarb time is to temperature:
psqyYin.png

The way to read the table is by comparing numbers in the right column - i.e. at 180F it takes 8x longer to get the same conversion that you would get at 230F. 180F might work if you run for 6+ hours but at 160F I'd be more skeptical that Im getting the full decarb.

EDIT: Looked at the revised magical butter instructions where they recommend an hour at 220F and then 4 hours at 160F. That makes sense and I bet you get a good decarb doing it that way. (I assume the hour excludes preheating time since it can take time to cook off the water in the butter).
 
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momofthegoons

vapor accessory addict
Here is the article on decarboylation from the CBD Farms Facebook page:

Decarboxylating Cannabis: Turning THCA into THC
March 7, 2014 at 1:54pm
Decarboxylating Cannabis: Turning THCA into THC

The other day I was asked by an acquaintance why the tincture
they were making had very little, if any, noticeable medicinal or psychoactive effect. They swore they followed the same process found in a book on making edibles and soaked the cannabis in high proof for weeks but the tincture just didn’t work.
The answer was simple but one that many in the cannabis industry don’t understand. One very important and necessary extra step had been overlooked. Cannabis used to make tinctures as well as other edible cannabis products requires decarboxylation. From asking around I have a feeling a lot of you just blurted out “Say What?”


So here is the deal. THCA (Tetrahydrocannabinolic Acid) is found in abundance in growing and harvested cannabis and is a biosynthetic precursor of THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol). Wow, this sounds scary like organic chemistry, doesn’t it? It is, so for both of our benefits, I’ll give you the dumbed down version.

Research suggests THCA has anti-inflammatory and neuroprotective effects but does not produce the psychoactive effect that make you feel “high”. This “high” is from the cannabinoid THC, of which little if any is found when cannabis is growing or recently harvested.



Decarboxylation is a chemical reaction that releases carbon dioxide (CO2). This means a chemical reaction takes place in which carboxylic acids loose a carbon atom from a carbon chain. This process converts THCA to THC, the much loved compound with many medicinal and psychoactive effects. When the cannabis drys, it very very slowly begins to decarboxylate and converts THCA to THC.



The good news is we don’t have to wait years for cannabis to decarboxylate. We can speed things along with a process that is a lot simpler than you might expect. Simply heating dried cannabis to the correct temperature for enough time releases that carbon dioxide and creates THC. Why have so many of you never heard of this before?



Decarboxylating takes place without extra effort when cannabis is heated during the act of smoking or vaporizing. It also takes place to some degree when cannabis is cooked into butter or when hash and kief are added to a favorite recipe and then cooked in the oven.



When making tinctures, cannabis is not heated or baked, it is simply soaked in high proof alcohol. Decarboxylation never takes place and you end up with a product with a lot of THCA and very little THC. This may be a good for some symptoms but will not produce the results most expect.

Setting Up The Experiment


After explaining decarboxylation it became clear why the tincture was ineffective. Naturally they wanted to know how to decarboxylate cannabis quickly and easily so they could get on with making their tincture. I knew how to do it, but I really needed to nerd out for a bit so I could give them the best possible answer.



It really is as easy as heating the cannabis, but for how long and at what temperature? If the cannabis is heated to much, we run the risk of vaporizing and losing some of the important cannabinoids, terpenes and flavonoids which have medicinal properties. At the same time we want remove the CO2 as quickly and effectively as possible.



According to a report published by John M. McPartland and Ethan B. Russo “Cannabis and Cannabis Extracts: Greater Than the Sum of Their Parts?”, the boiling points, and hence vapor point of the major cannabinoids, terpenes, and flavonoids range from 246.2° and 435.2° Fahrenheit. I have included a substantial list taken from this report in the appendix of this article. This indicates that by staying under 246.2° Fahrenheit there should be little if any inadvertent vaporization of plant compounds that might produce medicinal benefits. I do need to qualify the above statement by saying that some terpenes actually evaporate to some degree while the plant is growing and there is not much that can be done about it.



I decided to conduct a bit of an experiment to see if my hypothesis was correct. I had some extra kief and trim that I had been keeping in storage for a rainy day. They would work perfect for the experiment and there would be no great loss if things didn’t go as planned.

Easy Steps to Decarboxylation


Consumer grade ovens are not always exact so I decided to shoot for a decarboxylation temperature of around 240° Fahrenheit. This should produce quick results without losing any medicinal potency. 30 minutes seemed like a nice round number for a first test and should give the kief and trim plenty of time to come up to temperature.



Kief has a tendency to ball up in the bag which could lead to uneven temperatures and possibly uneven decarboxylation. Before I put it in the oven, I loosened up the clumps with a fork. While most of the trim was already fairly broken up from its time in the kief tumbler, there were still some budlets in the trim that I wanted to break apart.



A few minutes in the Cuisinart works great for breaking up trim and also works well on buds if you have a bunch of joints to roll. The static from the plastic separated out some low grade kief which loosely clung to the lid of the Cuisinart. I brushed this back into the trim.



I placed a pizza stone on the middle rack of the oven and set the oven dial to bake at as close to 240° Fahrenheit as possible. Ovens lose a lot of heat when the door is opened and sometimes the temperature spikes with little explanation. The pizza stone absorbs the heat and helps maintain a constant temperature. In order to track my temperature accurately I used a thermometer with a heat resistant cord. I placed the thermometer on the pizza stone and the digital readout on the counter next to the oven where it could be monitored.



Once the temperature reached about 240° and did not appear to be increasing I placed a small Pyrex bowl of kief and another of the trim on the pizza stone. I set my timer for 30 minutes and continued to monitor the temperature. A Pyrex lasagna dish would be perfect for larger quantities. As expected, the temperature fell a few degrees from opening the door and then came back up to temperature. Throughout the half hour the temperature rose and fell several times for no apparent reason but stayed between 229° and 245° Fahrenheit.



After 30 minutes I removed both Pyrex containers with an oven mit and placed them on the counter to cool. Both the kief and the trim had noticeably fluffed up and gave off a slightly roasted scent. I took a few grams of each and packaged them for lab testing.



I returned the Pyrex dishes to the oven and set the timer for another half hour. I was pretty sure that 30 minutes had been enough to mostly decarboxylate the kief and trim, but just in case I wanted a backup test at a full hour. Either way I had to be patient and wait a few days for the test results to come back.

Results of Decarboxylation Experiment


The following charts show the results of the 30 minute and 60 minute decarboxylation experiments. Also included are the lab results from testing done prior to any artificial decarboxylation to establish a starting point. Note that because of the age of both the kief and the trim, decarboxylation had begun to take place to some degree naturally. This may not be your starting point, but should not affect the results of the experiment much.

1972384_519758391474241_1477583864_n.png

As you can see from the two charts, 30 minutes was not quite enough to completely decarboxylate either the kief or the trim. At 30 minutes the kief was about 90% decarboxylated but the trim was only about 60% decarboxylated. This difference is likely because the trim had a higher starting moisture content. After 60 minutes however, both keif and trim samples were close enough to 100% decarboxylation for my satisfaction.

So there you have it. 240° F for 60 minutes should be enough to decarboxylate any cannabis with a reasonably low moisture content. For material with higher moisture content, the time can be extended but the temperature should not be increased. If you are concerned about losing organic compounds, lower heat can be used but the time should be extended to compensate.

Interesting Findings
As with most experiments, the results often lead to new questions. Here are a few unexpected finding that may lead to future experiments.

The kief and trim both appear to have lost some total cannabinoids after the second 30 minutes in the oven. Some of you might suggest this is from vaporization from being at temperature for too long. This could be true, thought they were from the same plant they were not the exact same samples. Additionally lab tests do have a margin of error, so I’m not sure that is a safe assumption. This would need to be tested with more samples to have a solid verdict.

For some reason the moisture content of the trim tested higher after the first 30 minutes in the oven. I have no idea why this would be. It could just be a fluke.

Tbe CBDA did not appear to convert to CBD during the decarboxylation of the THCA. Some further research might shed some light on this.
 

momofthegoons

vapor accessory addict
To continue the above article (due to lack of space above)

Appendix – Cannabis Cannabinoids, Terpenes and Flavonoids
As I mentioned above, here is the list of some commonly found cannabinoids, terpenes and flavonoids that I used to pick my decarboxylation temperature. This is by no means a complete list but it’s the best I could find.

Phytocannabinoids
THC (Δ-9-tetrahydrocannabinol)
Boiling point: 157° C / 314.6° Fahrenheit
Properties: Euphoriant, Analgesic, Anti Inflammatory, Antioxidant, Antiemetic

CBD (cannabidiol)
Boiling point: 160-180°C / 320-356° Fahrenheit
Properties: Anxiolytic, Analgesic, Antipsychotic, Anti Inflammatory, Antioxidant, Antispasmodic

CBN (Cannabinol)
Boiling point: 185°C / 365° Fahrenheit
Properties: Oxidation, breakdown, product, Sedative, Antibiotic

CBC (cannabichromene)
Boiling point: 220° / 428° Fahrenheit
Properties: Anti Inflammatory, Antibiotic, Antifungal

Δ-8-THC (Δ-8-tetrahydrocannabinol)
Boiling point: 175-178°C / 347-352.4° Fahrenheit
Properties: Resembles Δ-9-THC, Less psychoactive, More stable Antiemetic

THCV (Tetrahydrocannabivarin)
Boiling point: < 220°C / Properties: Analgesic, Euphoriant

Terpenoid Essential Oil Components of Cannabis
β-Myrcene
Boiling point: 166-168°C / 330.8-334.4° Fahrenheit
Properties: Analgesic. Anti Inflammatory, Antibiotic, Antimutagenic

β-Caryophyllene
Boiling point: 119°C / 246.2° Fahrenheit
Properties: Anti Inflammatory, Cytoprotective (gastric mucosa), Antimalarial

d-Limonene
Boiling point: 177°C / 350.6° Fahrenheit
Properties: Cannabinoid agonist?, Immune potentiator, Antidepressant, Antimutagenic

Linalool
Boiling point: 198°C / 388.4° Fahrenheit
Properties: Sedative, Antidepressant, Anxiolytic, Immune potentiator

Pulegone
Boiling point: 224°C / 435.2° Fahrenheit
Properties: Memory booster?, AChE inhibitor, Sedative, Antipyretic

1,8-Cineole (Eucalyptol)
Boiling point: 176°C / 348.8° Fahrenheit
Properties: AChE inhibitor, Increases cerebral, blood flow, Stimulant, Antibiotic, Antiviral, Anti Inflammatory, Antinociceptive

α-Pinene
Boiling point: 156°C / 312.8° Fahrenheit
Properties: Anti Inflammatory, Bronchodilator, Stimulant, Antibiotic, Antineoplastic, AChE inhibitor

α-Terpineol
Boiling point: 217-218°C / 422.6-424.4° Fahrenheit
Properties: Sedative, Antibiotic, AChE inhibitor, Antioxidant, Antimalarial

Terpineol-4-ol
Boiling point: 209°C / 408.2° Fahrenheit
Properties: AChE inhibitor. Antibiotic

p-Cymene
Boiling point: 177°C / 350.6° Fahrenheit
Properties: Antibiotic, Anticandidal, AChE inhibitor

Borneol
Boiling point: 210°C / 410° Fahrenheit
Properties: Antibiotic

Δ-3-Carene
Boiling point: 168*C / 334.4° Fahrenheit
Properties: Anti Inflammatory

Flavonoid and Phytosterol Components of Cannabis
Apigenin
Boiling point: 178°C / 352.4° Fahrenheit
Properties: Anxiolytic, Anti Inflammatory, Estrogenic

Quercetin
Boiling point: 250°C / 482° Fahrenheit
Properties: Antioxidant, Antimutagenic, Antiviral, Antineoplastic

Cannflavin A
Boiling point: 182°C / 359.6° Fahrenheit
Properties: COX inhibitor, LO inhibitor

β-Sitosterol
Boiling point: 134°C / 273.2° Fahrenheit
Properties: Anti Inflammatory, 5-α-reductase, inhibitor
 
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