Lung/chest pain and Vaping

[Cdub5]

Hey all,

I'll keep this as short as I can but that may be tough .

Back in September I started Vaping cannabis oil from cartridges. I had not consumed any type of cannabis for the past 13+years. (Had kids) .I only Vape on weekends and some weekends barely at all. I immediately felt discomfort in chest the Monday following my first go at Vaping. Chalked it up to not being exposed for so many years and just getting a "tolerance" back. Well the pain continued and morphed into different types of pain . I tried switching to Vaping flower thinking maybe the oil was filled with additives (all were bought at dispenseries in California). Problem continued . The pain feels like a sharp pressure both in my front right chest that I feel all the way to my back under to the side of my shoulder blade. There's also a burning sensation in my right chest that I slightly feel in my throat and many times my voice feels dry and raspy. There is a pressure feeling as well down the middle of my chest . Left side of chest not really affected.

The weirdest part of all this, is every week I feel the best on Monday's and Tuesday's following a weekend of Vaping .I usually feel the worst by the time Friday comes. I would think it would be the other way around.

Because I'm somewhat of a hypochondriac, I explained all this to a doctor. They don't help much because this is new territory for them. I did however have chest x Ray's, a pulmonary function test, and an endoscopy with no negative results. All these were ordered by doctor.

If you're still reading, thank you! I know this is probably as simple as "if it hurts, stop" and I get that, I'm just wondering if anyone else has had anything similar. All I hear and read is how vaping is so much better on the lungs then combustion but I never had problems with smoking cannabis and I used to be a heavy, daily smoker. Also, smoking is not an option . I have to be extremely extremely discreet, which is why Vape pens are my only real option. Not into edibles or tinctures. Don't like the high.

 

[Jill NYC]

Welcome @Cdub5
Good for you for going to the doctor and getting thoroughly tested.
There are many other FC’ers who will have knowledgeable responses, but I do have a question or two that may help -
What vape are you using? Did you use same one for flowers?
Have you ever vaped through water?

 

[shredder]

Hey all,

I'll keep this as short as I can but that may be tough .

Back in September I started Vaping cannabis oil from cartridges. I had not consumed any type of cannabis for the past 13+years. (Had kids) .I only Vape on weekends and some weekends barely at all. I immediately felt discomfort in chest the Monday following my first go at Vaping. Chalked it up to not being exposed for so many years and just getting a "tolerance" back. Well the pain continued and morphed into different types of pain . I tried switching to Vaping flower thinking maybe the oil was filled with additives (all were bought at dispenseries in California). Problem continued . The pain feels like a sharp pressure both in my front right chest that I feel all the way to my back under to the side of my shoulder blade. There's also a burning sensation in my right chest that I slightly feel in my throat and many times my voice feels dry and raspy. There is a pressure feeling as well down the middle of my chest . Left side of chest not really affected.

The weirdest part of all this, is every week I feel the best on Monday's and Tuesday's following a weekend of Vaping .I usually feel the worst by the time Friday comes. I would think it would be the other way around.

Because I'm somewhat of a hypochondriac, I explained all this to a doctor. They don't help much because this is new territory for them. I did however have chest x Ray's, a pulmonary function test, and an endoscopy with no negative results. All these were ordered by doctor.

If you're still reading, thank you! I know this is probably as simple as "if it hurts, stop" and I get that, I'm just wondering if anyone else has had anything similar. All I hear and read is how vaping is so much better on the lungs then combustion but I never had problems with smoking cannabis and I used to be a heavy, daily smoker. Also, smoking is not an option . I have to be extremely extremely discreet, which is why Vape pens are my only real option. Not into edibles or tinctures. Don't like the high.

You may have to get your lungs in shape, well not just your lungs but the muscles that expand and move when you take hits. It can happen when your not used to restrictions on the vape. A vape with less restrictions will help, plus as you vape more it most likely will go away. Breathing exersizes could help as well. I'm not diagnosing here just suggesting an alternative your dr might have missed.

This winter I was pretty stoned and started thinking I was having a heart attack. Then I remembered that earlier I had been spudding ice with a heavy spud and my chest muscles were just sore, lol.

Edit I re read your post and noticed your using pens. If the pens have ejuice in them, it might be that as well.

 

[Cdub5]

Welcome @Cdub5
Good for you for going to the doctor and getting thoroughly tested.
There are many other FC’ers who will have knowledgeable responses, but I do have a question or two that may help -
What vape are you using? Did you use same one for flowers?
Have you ever vaped through water?

I've been using Vape pens. I always go towards the ones that state they don't use any additives. Lately I've been trying live resin/sauce pens. I've also used pax pods but not a fan . When I was vaping flower, I had an arizer solo 2. Haven't been able to use water. Hard to be discreet. I love the taste of Vaping and would love to Vape flower over a pen, but the herb vape got me in trouble... Again that discreet thing .

You may have to get your lungs in shape, well not just your lungs but the muscles that expand and move when you take hits. It can happen when your not used to restrictions on the vape. A vape with less restrictions will help, plus as you vape more it most likely will go away. Breathing exersizes could help as well. I'm not diagnosing here just suggesting an alternative your dr might have missed.

This winter I was pretty stoned and started thinking I was having a heart attack. Then I remembered that earlier I had been spudding ice with a heavy spud and my chest muscles were just sore, lol.

Edit I re read your post and noticed your using pens. If the pens have ejuice in them, it might be that as well.

I was hoping it would go away with "training" but it's been about 5 months. Problem hasn't gotten worse, but not really better. Again, the strange thing is that I feel better after a weekend of vaping and then hurting the most by Thursday/Friday .

I left out I run 3-4 times a week about 4-6 miles a time . Sometimes my chest Burns after, but usually I don't feel this issue affects my running. I'm a medical mystery I guess and the doctors I've seen have no clue. I've been open with them and they just have no idea. Frustrating .

 

[little maggie]

I don't have any suggestions. I have the same problem but it's tolerable so I ignore it. I do have heart issues and check that periodically so I know they aren't connected.
What works the best for me to minimize the pain is using a small amount in one of my on demand vapes and a whip.
I actually experience 0 pain with a balloon but I also experience minimal effect from it. I used to use the extreme q because of that but ended up using the whips mostly. Now I use a whip with all my vapes. It helps.

 

[Cdub5]

I don't have any suggestions. I have the same problem but it's tolerable so I ignore it. I do have heart issues and check that periodically so I know they aren't connected.
What works the best for me to minimize the pain is using a small amount in one of my on demand vapes and a whip.
I actually experience 0 pain with a balloon but I also experience minimal effect from it. I used to use the extreme q because of that but ended up using the whips mostly. Now I use a whip with all my vapes. It helps.

Whip?

 

[Vaporware]

I don’t have quite the same issues, but I think mine are mostly from anxiety and yours could be too.

Here are a few things I would try if you want to continue using anything:

1. Use higher CBD flower (you can mix it with high THC if you don’t get the right balance in one strain).

You can also try concentrates with more CBD, but THC is usually very high in them so I’d go more with flower for now.

2. Try different temperatures - lower may be better both in the cannabinoids you vaporize and the speed you get vapor.

If you have anxiety issues then huge clouds of high temp vapor are more likely to set them off (in my experience anyway).

3. Try different vaporizers if you can. I really prefer on-demand convection like the FlowerPot for its convenience and efficiency, but something on the conduction side like the DaVinci Ascent (or newer IQ which I haven’t tried) makes it much harder for me to induce a lot of anxiety.

It’s not like I always have bad experiences with the FlowerPot, but if I draw a bit too long at a high temp I can easily get more than I’m comfortable with in a single draw.

4. Think about “set and setting”. It’s talked about a lot more in the context of psychedelics, but if you have anxiety related issues with cannabis it is very relevant here too.

5. Reconsider edibles and tinctures. They may not be what you want alone, but I get the best results from combining edibles and vapor. Just start slow - don’t down a 50mg drink and chase it with a big bowl of high temp convection vapor to start with.

Edibles combined with a slow convection session (~345-385 degrees or so - I ramp it up if I start that low) in a comfortable place without external anxiety-inducing stimuli is what I personally find easiest to get a lot without anxiety issues, but that may or may not be true for you.

I’m not at all surprised you feel better at the beginning of the week. While I do have some anxiety issues these days, I’m a medical user and the longer I go without it the worse (and more like my pre-cannabis days) I feel.

 

[CANtalk]

Be careful and trust what your body is telling you. Adverse effects can happen.
https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1513/AnnalsATS.201612-974LE

 

[invertedisdead]

I agree are you sure it's not anxiety? I dab all day every day, but if I go even 24 hours without a rip I get intense effects, if I only vaped sauce pens on the weekend I would get completely blasted.

California sauce pens and Era pods are all pretty high quality. Which ones have you been using?

 

[little maggie]

This plug in uses a whip system- it's the long tube. You can buy whips by themselves but my tubo evic which is a nice on demand vape came with one as did my iheat. I mainly buy mouthpieces from
Ddave that easily fit whips and that work with standard vapes: (I also use a pulse oximeter that checks my oxygen level. Mine usually runs a bit low but vaping doesn't make it worse than usual.) I've only tried a cartrige once and it was stronger for me than vaping flower.)

 

[Vaporware]

Be careful and trust what your body is telling you. Adverse effects can happen.
https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1513/AnnalsATS.201612-974LE

For sure! Since the OP said he was a hypochondriac I thought anxiety issues were likely.

Everything I said was assuming that’s the issue, and since he already had all the tests his doctor thought he needed it seems more likely. Still, it’s possible that his problems (and even mine) could be more than just anxiety and we should take that possibility seriously too.

@Cdub5 If you get more information either way, or if any of our ideas help, please let us know so we have more data to work with next time these kinds of issues come up.

 

[little maggie]

I'm curious how people inhale with a cartridge. I have anxiety related to external triggers but not chronic anxiety. Still when I was figuring out how to inhale without coughing I'd hyperventilate and end up feeling anxious. I knew it was my breathing but feeling physical anxiety and an altered mind state created its own anxiety. Very unpleasant.

 

[Vaporware]

I'm curious how people inhale with a cartridge. I have anxiety related to external triggers but not chronic anxiety. Still when I was figuring out how to inhale without coughing I'd hyperventilate and end up feeling anxious. I knew it was my breathing but feeling physical anxiety and an altered mind state created its own anxiety. Very unpleasant.

Cartridges are generally much harsher for me than flower, so basically I exhale, inhale a little vapor, inhale a lot of fresh air, hold it a little, slowly exhale with my throat as open as possible.

That usually keeps me from coughing or getting too much all at once.

 

[invertedisdead]

I'm curious how people inhale with a cartridge. I have anxiety related to external triggers but not chronic anxiety. Still when I was figuring out how to inhale without coughing I'd hyperventilate and end up feeling anxious. I knew it was my breathing but feeling physical anxiety and an altered mind state created its own anxiety. Very unpleasant.

For me, cartridges are probably the smoothest vapor of any delivery device. The reason why is I can get as much vapor in my lungs as I want and simply let off the button, that makes it easy for me to hold and absorb the vapor. The thing about cartridges is you 100% HAVE to do proper due diligence on them as there are great ones and there are really bad ones. I would avoid anything with non cannabis derived terpenes.

 

[Tranquility]

I'm curious how people inhale with a cartridge. I have anxiety related to external triggers but not chronic anxiety. Still when I was figuring out how to inhale without coughing I'd hyperventilate and end up feeling anxious. I knew it was my breathing but feeling physical anxiety and an altered mind state created its own anxiety. Very unpleasant.

I'll start breathing in, hit the button for a bit, keep breathing, hit the button again and keep breathing.

When breathing in, I leave a close gap between lips and cart so I get additional air without it going through the vape.

From a feeling perspective, it is the coolest one can get without some additional tool. Once it gets hot or I feel the vapor really being produced, that's when I let up on the power but keep pulling. I don't pull hard as there is little resistance. I just breathe in. While I haven't experimented with quick exhales to see the difference, it feels like more vapor is produced as the cart cools down right after power is cut than when it is ramping up. I always finish with at least a few seconds of no power pulls in an attempt to prevent clogging.

In other words, one long breath with enough extra airflow from outside of the vape to have no restriction with a couple pulses of a few seconds during to produce vapor. If it takes a little longer than cloud-ripping exhales, I've got time.

 

[little maggie]

I'm tempted. But my nomad arrived yesterday and that's my current focus. I wonder though if cdub5's breathing method contributed to anxiety or pain.

 

[Madri-Gal]

Might not be related to vaping at all. You say you 'immediately ' felt it after vaping, but immediate in medical terms would be upon inhale, not the following Monday. It's not bilateral, and your tests were negative, so it's likely not the lungs. That's great news, but you still have chest pain. It's not the heart, as it's not on the left, and there are no signs other signs of heart trouble. That's also good news. The pattern that you describe, better after the weekend, worse toward the end of the week when you haven't been vaping, suggests that it's not related to vaping, or is even alleviated by vaping. You give a great clue by describing a burning sensation in your right chest that you slightly feel in your throat, and your throat feels dry and raspy at times. Bingo! You have described classic GERD, or Gastric Esophageal Reflux Disorder. The gastric fluids come up the esophagus, cause pain and burning, causes sore throats, can damage teeth as well, over time.
Just an aside, if you go to a doctor and they run tests and don't find anything, and you still have problems, go back. Tests are useful, but yours said what it wasn't. That doesn't tell the doc what it is by default, and they need you working with them to figure out what's going on. Don't give up, just know if it isn't what was first suspected, there are then there are other things to look at. If it's beyond the doc, then referrals to specialists and second opinions can help. Not knowing the first go round doesn't mean much, except they ruled out lung problems in your case. Bodies are complicated, with many moving parts. A quick answer doesn't mean no answer ever.
The good news is, you can try a few things yourself and might not need to go back for this one. If you try things, and don't feel you found the answer, you can write down what you did and what happened, and take the journal to your doctor. That gives a lot of useful information, and helps with the diagnosis. You could just quit vaping, for say a month. If the symptoms go away, there you go. That might not be your preferred way, and it wouldn't be mine, but it's an option.
The other thing to do is go to the drug store and pick up some antacids such as Tums, and a proton pump inhibitor, such as Prilosec or Nexium. Grab an extra pillow, and elevate your head and shoulders at night, avoid fried foods, alcohol and lose weight if you need to diet. If you do have GERD, this is pretty close to what your treatment will be, anyway, and this can help with the diagnosis. If you feel better ( give the Prilosec time to work, usually 1 to 4 days) great. If not, there's good information to give to your doctor, then they can move on to figuring out what's causing you such distress. But if it's not your heart, and not your lungs ( which look great, congratulations! I love all clear on the lungs, don't you?) then you are running out of parts in that area. Our friend the esophagus is there, and he needs love, too.
Best of luck with this, and I hope you find relief. I'm not a doctor, as they say, I just play one on television.

 

[C No Ego]

I've tried a few cart vapes and plan to stay away from them as long as possible and hope the vape scene does not sway to far in that direction ( looks like it is )... pretty much throat harsh city with those things so far. no telling what concentrated by products too... clean air path dry herb vapes are where it is at... if you want to benefit from oil make some RSO and ingest it

 

[invertedisdead]

I've tried a few cart vapes and plan to stay away from them as long as possible and hope the vape scene does not sway to far in that direction ( looks like it is )... pretty much throat harsh city with those things so far. no telling what concentrated by products too... clean air path dry herb vapes are where it is at... if you want to benefit from oil make some RSO and ingest it

Questionable grey market cartridges should definitely be avoided; but being in a legal state and able to do more due diligence: I find a great pen is generally a lot smoother than a dry herb vape, especially direct draw.

Activated cannabinoids allow for lower temp vaporization which makes for smoother vapor.

 

[TiSteamo]

@VaporWare I want to ask you one thing: ever since I took cannabis with the vaporizer I have never had episodes of anxiety again. Not even once. Since I have always used the same weed (donated, therefore I don't know the strain) I wonder: is it possible that the use of the vaporizer determines the lack of anxiety or is more important the quantity of thc in the weed?

 

[Vaporware]

@TiSteamo I wish I knew...I’ve never smoked so I can’t make comparisons with that, and there probably isn’t one answer that’s true for everyone.

I’m not even sure what makes the most difference in my case, except that getting even one huge hit seems much more likely to set it off for me than a long slow session.

 

[TiSteamo]

@TiSteamo I wish I knew...I’ve never smoked so I can’t make comparisons with that, and there probably isn’t one answer that’s true for everyone.

I’m not even sure what makes the most difference in my case, except that getting even one huge hit seems much more likely to set it off for me than a long slow session.

In my opinion, the vape gives you a much cleaner and more relaxed high than the joint because you don't inhale dozens of toxins and carcinogens that give you a brain stroke more on the "down" than on the "up".

I reduced my consumption by 70%, feeling much better. It's all about the "management" of the substance and watching what works better for you ...

 

[Whisper]

One of the things that was mentioned earlier was the GERD, my hubby had it, & didn't know it, so
it may be a possible cause. He had numerous problems, and many hospital visits, until we found a
specialist that researched his problem.
Perhaps edibles would be a better option? Just don't eat too many!

 

[Mookie0608]

I get it off and I’m too I think it’s anxiety sometimes for me because usually my chest feels weird and kind of heavy if it makes sense when it happens. Sometimes weed really helps and other times even an indica that’s good for anxiety can make it worse and start almost instantly.

 

[Cdub5]

First off, thank you all for your advice and concern regarding my situation. I've been tied up with work and family so I've been away for a bit.

Gerd has been mentioned. I do suffer from gerd/acid reflux and have been medicating this daily with prescription meds for 10+ years. I also recently had an upper endoscopy and found that gerd is not the issue here. I am very familiar with the pain/discomfort of heart burn, and this is very different.

In terms of the carts I use, they are all purchased at legal dispensaries and I make sure to do my homework on what I buy. I make sure to get the ones that say no fillers/additives, only natural cannabis. Most recently Friendly Farms and Farmacy Phactory which are both live resin. (Which is amazing btw) When I vape I take small draws that I first pull into my mouth and let it sit there for 5 seconds or so, inhale and then immediately breath out. My intention is for the vapor to cool down a bit before I inhale and not sit in my lungs for too long. Also, when I vape it's not a bunch of long "sessions." It's a few puffs here, a few there, and that's only on the weekends.

I just can't figure out what is making me have such a "reaction" to vaping. As stated earlier, the pain goes through the right lung area to underneath the right shoulder blade. It does feel like a tight pressure on the chest sometimes (days following) with a burning/stabbing feeling, but only on center/right side of chest. It can be painful to take a deep breath, and for the first time it was really aggravated after I went running. The pain worsens during my time of no use of vapes, gets better a little when using, then repeat. I've taken a few weeks off here and there with the condition improving slightly. I know the simple answer is stop vaping, and I get it, but I just honestly feel vaping is triggering another underlying issue, not causing an issue.

Vaping is supposed to be so much better for the lungs, but I didn't have any of these issues when I smoked, however that was about 14 years ago. These carts are perfect for my needs of be inconspicuous, so it's just frustrating these issues are present. I see dudes vaping full gram carts in one sitting with no issues. I'm jealous. I guess I continue as a medical mystery.