stickstones
Vapor concierge
That thing is big
Discontinued Loto Labs Lux (formerly Evoke)
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sickmanfraud
Well-Known Member
Vaping Cannabis is a federal crime (if the feds decide to prosecute, unlikely.)
Why risk problems in the future?
edit :
Just found the Loto Labs website. $400 for a vape with a 1 year warranty? these guys have been vaping too much or they think we have been.
Especially troubling is they seem to have no faith in their product to last beyond a year.
New technology + short warranty period + high price = I will sit on the sidelines waiting for the price and warranty to be reasonable.
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Razor
Well-Known Member
ive noticed a lot of newer vapes take this higger priced trend when theyre nothing more than a geating chamber and a battery. Unless they use unique materials to make the product, all these high prices get them is extra inventory. This one at least has a almost unique approach to vaping. Tgat being said, if i didnt get this for 75 bucks then i would in no way be paying over 150 for it. Not when you can get amazing convection vaporizors for 100.
t-dub
Vapor Sloth
New Campaign Update!
The Loto Lux: 1st Smart Vaporizer Powered by Induction team just posted.
SEE PAST UPDATES ASK A QUESTION VIEW ORDER STATUS
posted by Neeraj Bhardwaj
Oct 31, 2017 • 1:16PM PDT
October Update
To our friends and supporters,
“It’s called Hardware, not ‘Easyware’,” said a brilliant person who learned this the hard way.
Well, it’s Halloween, and we are finishing retooling our new mouthpieces. We began fulfilling again this week (with less fanfare) using CNC machined components. Many a human will be getting their units over the next few days and weeks.
We wanted to thank all of you who applied or participated in our Beta Testing, or even those who didn’t, but who have nevertheless been so understanding and patient with us while we get all the kinks worked out for mass production. You’ve helped us out so much, and we couldn’t feel luckier to have you guys in our corner.
As many of you know, we’ve taken advantage of this time to make a lot of improvements. Not to mention, we’d be having a tougher time right now if we hadn’t readjusted a few things. It was a bummer, but, as many can attest, we are in better shape for it.
What lifts our spirits is knowing that the improvements made to our mouthpiece fitment and capsule system are going to make the Lux second to none.
Here’s a quick summary of what’s been accomplished in the past two months: we changed our metal-clip-mouthpiece fitment to a magnetic one. This was badly needed. The resulting seal is much more precise, stable, and does a better job assuring the top-quality experience. This also helps us avoid a major bottleneck in manufacturing. This improvement forced us to change the mouthpiece from ceramic to Delrin, which is a high-temp, food-safe polycarbonate with more precise tolerances. It is widely-prized among vaping enthusiasts for its durability and resistance to residue, oils, waxes, etc. We optimized our firmware and dramatically upped the experience for all materials to levels beyond expectations. For instance, concentrates in the Loto Lux is going to be the hailed as the best. We already knew this, but we succeeded in making it even better. We didn’t think it was even possible, but apparently it was, and we are pleasantly surprised by that fact. Dry Herb went from being just okay, to being amazing. After repeated testing with unbiased users and connoisseurs who were gracious enough to try the Lux after multiple adjustments and offer their opinions, it’s very clear now that the flavor and sensory experience of the Lux will raise the bar for vaping across the board.
Each category is now at levels we know people will love, and that well-surpass the norm. People spoke, we listened, we’re great, yada yada yada.
Aside from making these improvements, we’ve also received some nice media attention, from sources interested in Loto Labs and the blossoming vape tech industry. The Ganjapreneur podcast did an interview with our president, Neeraj Bhardwaj, that was released last week. You can check it out here.
At this exact moment, we’re finishing the final tooling for the new mouthpieces. This will only take a few more weeks. In the meantime, we are fulfilling with CNC mouthpieces at a slower rate (and much higher cost). We are back in motion and are happy to have all these changes finalized. We were hoping to have shipped thousands of units by now, but these changes are great and we know you’ll appreciate it all in the end.
Peace, love, and vaping,
Team Loto Labs
The Loto Lux: 1st Smart Vaporizer Powered by Induction team just posted.
SEE PAST UPDATES ASK A QUESTION VIEW ORDER STATUS
posted by Neeraj Bhardwaj
Oct 31, 2017 • 1:16PM PDT
October Update
To our friends and supporters,
“It’s called Hardware, not ‘Easyware’,” said a brilliant person who learned this the hard way.
Well, it’s Halloween, and we are finishing retooling our new mouthpieces. We began fulfilling again this week (with less fanfare) using CNC machined components. Many a human will be getting their units over the next few days and weeks.
We wanted to thank all of you who applied or participated in our Beta Testing, or even those who didn’t, but who have nevertheless been so understanding and patient with us while we get all the kinks worked out for mass production. You’ve helped us out so much, and we couldn’t feel luckier to have you guys in our corner.
As many of you know, we’ve taken advantage of this time to make a lot of improvements. Not to mention, we’d be having a tougher time right now if we hadn’t readjusted a few things. It was a bummer, but, as many can attest, we are in better shape for it.
What lifts our spirits is knowing that the improvements made to our mouthpiece fitment and capsule system are going to make the Lux second to none.
Here’s a quick summary of what’s been accomplished in the past two months: we changed our metal-clip-mouthpiece fitment to a magnetic one. This was badly needed. The resulting seal is much more precise, stable, and does a better job assuring the top-quality experience. This also helps us avoid a major bottleneck in manufacturing. This improvement forced us to change the mouthpiece from ceramic to Delrin, which is a high-temp, food-safe polycarbonate with more precise tolerances. It is widely-prized among vaping enthusiasts for its durability and resistance to residue, oils, waxes, etc. We optimized our firmware and dramatically upped the experience for all materials to levels beyond expectations. For instance, concentrates in the Loto Lux is going to be the hailed as the best. We already knew this, but we succeeded in making it even better. We didn’t think it was even possible, but apparently it was, and we are pleasantly surprised by that fact. Dry Herb went from being just okay, to being amazing. After repeated testing with unbiased users and connoisseurs who were gracious enough to try the Lux after multiple adjustments and offer their opinions, it’s very clear now that the flavor and sensory experience of the Lux will raise the bar for vaping across the board.
Each category is now at levels we know people will love, and that well-surpass the norm. People spoke, we listened, we’re great, yada yada yada.
Aside from making these improvements, we’ve also received some nice media attention, from sources interested in Loto Labs and the blossoming vape tech industry. The Ganjapreneur podcast did an interview with our president, Neeraj Bhardwaj, that was released last week. You can check it out here.
At this exact moment, we’re finishing the final tooling for the new mouthpieces. This will only take a few more weeks. In the meantime, we are fulfilling with CNC mouthpieces at a slower rate (and much higher cost). We are back in motion and are happy to have all these changes finalized. We were hoping to have shipped thousands of units by now, but these changes are great and we know you’ll appreciate it all in the end.
Peace, love, and vaping,
Team Loto Labs
Razor
Well-Known Member
I'm actually excited. If it performs like in the video for all 3, it's going to be a pretty good device to have. I'm # 400 on the kickstarter list too so hopefully within the next year or so I can expect it. 
If it comes out working as well as the demo showed, I won't mind spending 79$ 3 years ago.
If it comes out working as well as the demo showed, I won't mind spending 79$ 3 years ago.
duff
Well worn
@VapeFiend.com got one.
I just don't get the white mouthpiece. Black would look soooooooo much better imo.
Mr. Gweilo 420
Dude
Sounds like there were plenty of suckers. Free money.I'm actually excited. If it performs like in the video for all 3, it's going to be a pretty good device to have. I'm # 400 on the kickstarter list too so hopefully within the next year or so I can expect it.
If it comes out working as well as the demo showed, I won't mind spending 79$ 3 years ago.
Razor
Well-Known Member
Awesome. Can't wait for the review of it. And suckers is a little hard. Kickstarter is an investment. I know how investments work so I was not surprised about delays and such. I didnt really expect it to finish at all. I definitely would not pay 400 dollars for it though.
Mr. Gweilo 420
Dude
Each to their own but my investments return cash money. Im not sure how Kickstarter and so forth are investments. You receive no equity in the fledgling company and stand to make nothing but goodwill and the possibility of a product that may or may not ever exist and may or may not work.
PPN
Volute of Vapor
I'm one of this "suckers" and, 3 years ago, it looked very promising in term of technology and design. Design is a terrific fail and it doesn't look what I was expecting for, for sure!
Time will we know (or not...) if technology is promising or not, I own a Pipes induction heater designed for the VapCap and it's definitely an amazing tool!
So I'll try to keep some hopes....
Time will we know (or not...) if technology is promising or not, I own a Pipes induction heater designed for the VapCap and it's definitely an amazing tool!
So I'll try to keep some hopes....
stickstones
Vapor concierge
They need to put that thing in some bigger hands before taking pics of it.
My stepfather had one paid modeling gig in his life. It was for a utility company that wanted to show someone holding one of their bills, and they wanted someone with big hands so the bill wouldn't appear big.
My stepfather had one paid modeling gig in his life. It was for a utility company that wanted to show someone holding one of their bills, and they wanted someone with big hands so the bill wouldn't appear big.
I only have 2 things to say, first is that I'm in disbelief they now switched to a plastic mouthpiece... wasn't the ceramic air path a major selling point for those seeing pure clean vapor??
Second I really hope the preorders start to get filled before they send out those beta kits people requested a few months ago.
Second I really hope the preorders start to get filled before they send out those beta kits people requested a few months ago.
Razor
Well-Known Member
Can you link me to something saying the mouthpiece is going to be plastic? I have not heard of this change and would like to see exactly what type of plastic. It's still magnetic so I dont see how that would work unless they glued it together. For a 400 dollar unit, I hope it is a rumor. I've not been able to find anything about it on their website.
Edit: I've found it
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/...r-powered-by-induction/x/8010864#/updates/all
Acetal (polyoxymethylene, POM) is a thermoplastic polymer commercialized in the early 1960's. This material is produced through the polymerization of formaldehyde. ACETAL HOMOPOLYMER resins are currently made by the DuPont Company under the trade name Delrin®
also
One of the best plastics for food grade applications is Delrin. Produced by Ensinger, this food grade plastic is great for all sorts of applications. Delrin is a crystalline plastic that is an excellent balance of both strength and resistance. ... Delrin has a high tensile strength and stiffness
Also
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/delrin-tolerance-97961/
And probably one of the better ones.
https://www.directplastics.co.uk/all-about-delrin-as-an-engineering-plastic.html
Delrin is extremely stable. I do not have issues with it being used although I do wish it was ceramic. Especially for 400 bucks.
Edit: I've found it
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/...r-powered-by-induction/x/8010864#/updates/all
Acetal (polyoxymethylene, POM) is a thermoplastic polymer commercialized in the early 1960's. This material is produced through the polymerization of formaldehyde. ACETAL HOMOPOLYMER resins are currently made by the DuPont Company under the trade name Delrin®
also
One of the best plastics for food grade applications is Delrin. Produced by Ensinger, this food grade plastic is great for all sorts of applications. Delrin is a crystalline plastic that is an excellent balance of both strength and resistance. ... Delrin has a high tensile strength and stiffness
Also
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/delrin-tolerance-97961/
And probably one of the better ones.
https://www.directplastics.co.uk/all-about-delrin-as-an-engineering-plastic.html
Delrin is extremely stable. I do not have issues with it being used although I do wish it was ceramic. Especially for 400 bucks.
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Delrin releases some awefull gases (formaldahyde) when heated up. At Thermovape we constantly battled keeping delrin in the safe threshold, thats the exact reason the Evolution had a glass-filled PTFE sleeve. Delrin also expands quite a bit when warm, that's how Thermovape installed the Delrin battery sleeves, heated them up to expand large enough to press over the metal housing without too much force. Other than that Delrin is great.
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Razor
Well-Known Member
"There are no known effects from exposure to the Delrin polymer itself. If overheated, the polymer releases formaldehyde which may cause skin, eye, and respiratory irritation and allergic reactions. Significant skin permeation and systemic toxicity after contact appears unlikely."
the temp NOT to go above is 300 degrees C that's 572F.
http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/instr-shop/SDS/Delrin.pdf
I really doubt that the mouthpiece is going to get anywhere near hot enough to gas anything but of course again its a 400 dollar vape so there should be no reason it's not ceramic. I'll be replacing the mouthpiece with a custom one if it DOES ship with that mouthpiece in either case.
the temp NOT to go above is 300 degrees C that's 572F.
http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/instr-shop/SDS/Delrin.pdf
I really doubt that the mouthpiece is going to get anywhere near hot enough to gas anything but of course again its a 400 dollar vape so there should be no reason it's not ceramic. I'll be replacing the mouthpiece with a custom one if it DOES ship with that mouthpiece in either case.
s car go
Member
I love the pumpkin. Its the perfect metaphor for whats been happening with the company and its product. Black mold is starting to grow and we all know what that means. Black mold is the fruit of rot and decay and that is where this product is headed. Next they will be replacing the glass components with plastic as well.
stickstones
Vapor concierge
Can you help me understand this doc? I researched Delrin a while back for a mouthpiece application and decided against it because of some things I found at lower temps. Check out pages 6 and 7 of this doc and let me know what you think of what is going on at those lower temps. Is that just for processing into a mouthpiece and then it's fine after that?
Razor
Well-Known Member
Yeah I'll def read through it and get back.
What you're looking at is dealing with Delrin dust. Most likely before it's been processed.
End of page 6
---------------------------------------------------------------------- # Physical Data Melting Point : 175-183 C (347-361 F) Solubility in Water : Insoluble Odor : Slight formaldehyde Form : Pellets Specific Gravity : >1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- STABILITY AND REACTIVITY ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Chemical Stability Stable at normal temperatures and storage conditions. Conditions to Avoid Maintain polymer melt temperatures below 230 C (446 F) . Avoid prolonged exposure at or above the recommended processing temperatures.
That is pellet specific form.
All of this would actually be pretty bad if it wasn't just the mouth piece. In order for anything to happen, it would need to be heated at a temperature higher than combustion for prolonged periods. The real issue imo is about the acidity break down. THC is pretty acidic and maybe if the moutpiece gets a ton of resin without being cleaned, could cause a break down issue.
--
page 7
"Decomposition of this material depends on the length of time it is exposed to elevated temperatures. At the recommended processing temperature of 210-220 C (410-428 F), decomposition should not be significant until after 30 minutes. Decomposition may be accelerated by contaminants, pigments, and/or other additives. Autoclaving with pressurized steam may lead to a rapid decomposition and should be done for only minimum amounts of time. COOL COMPLETELY BEFORE OPENING the autoclave. Hazardous gas/vapor produced is formaldehyde. Polymerization Polymerization will not occur"
This means if we heat the mouthpiece for 30 minutes at above the rec temp, it should start breaking down. I usually don't do that myself but again, who knows what may happen when a lower temp is paired with acidity from THC.
What you're looking at is dealing with Delrin dust. Most likely before it's been processed.
End of page 6
---------------------------------------------------------------------- # Physical Data Melting Point : 175-183 C (347-361 F) Solubility in Water : Insoluble Odor : Slight formaldehyde Form : Pellets Specific Gravity : >1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- STABILITY AND REACTIVITY ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Chemical Stability Stable at normal temperatures and storage conditions. Conditions to Avoid Maintain polymer melt temperatures below 230 C (446 F) . Avoid prolonged exposure at or above the recommended processing temperatures.
That is pellet specific form.
All of this would actually be pretty bad if it wasn't just the mouth piece. In order for anything to happen, it would need to be heated at a temperature higher than combustion for prolonged periods. The real issue imo is about the acidity break down. THC is pretty acidic and maybe if the moutpiece gets a ton of resin without being cleaned, could cause a break down issue.
--
page 7
"Decomposition of this material depends on the length of time it is exposed to elevated temperatures. At the recommended processing temperature of 210-220 C (410-428 F), decomposition should not be significant until after 30 minutes. Decomposition may be accelerated by contaminants, pigments, and/or other additives. Autoclaving with pressurized steam may lead to a rapid decomposition and should be done for only minimum amounts of time. COOL COMPLETELY BEFORE OPENING the autoclave. Hazardous gas/vapor produced is formaldehyde. Polymerization Polymerization will not occur"
This means if we heat the mouthpiece for 30 minutes at above the rec temp, it should start breaking down. I usually don't do that myself but again, who knows what may happen when a lower temp is paired with acidity from THC.
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Razor
Well-Known Member
I was contacted by someone from loto after I tried to get their attention in the indiegogo website. I was directed to this information on Delrin. Here is what they said.
"Thanks for your concern. It's really important to us to use the best materials in the Loto Lux. A big reason why it's taken us this long to manufacture the Loto Lux is the ceramic mouthpiece. Long story short is that to get the vaporizer out into the market, we need to use an excellent quality material that can be manufactured fast. Our engineers recommended Delrin because of its resistance to degradation under high temperatures. We've attached a study and an informational guide that goes more in depth if you want to see the research for yourself. "
http://www2.dupont.com/Plastics/en_US/assets/downloads/design/DELDGe.pdf
and another pdf I couldnt find online
Thermal-oxidative induced degradation behaviour of polyoxymethylene (POM) copolymer detected by TGA/MS
S. Lu¨ftl*, V.-M. Archodoulaki, S. Seidler
The second one I found is an actual book so a pdf is harder to come by. Hope this helps. As far as a company goes, they've at least responded with information that's viable.
"Thanks for your concern. It's really important to us to use the best materials in the Loto Lux. A big reason why it's taken us this long to manufacture the Loto Lux is the ceramic mouthpiece. Long story short is that to get the vaporizer out into the market, we need to use an excellent quality material that can be manufactured fast. Our engineers recommended Delrin because of its resistance to degradation under high temperatures. We've attached a study and an informational guide that goes more in depth if you want to see the research for yourself. "
http://www2.dupont.com/Plastics/en_US/assets/downloads/design/DELDGe.pdf
and another pdf I couldnt find online
Thermal-oxidative induced degradation behaviour of polyoxymethylene (POM) copolymer detected by TGA/MS
S. Lu¨ftl*, V.-M. Archodoulaki, S. Seidler
The second one I found is an actual book so a pdf is harder to come by. Hope this helps. As far as a company goes, they've at least responded with information that's viable.
stickstones
Vapor concierge
Thanks @Razor !
Things that confuse me about these docs...the processing temp is 210 to 220, but the melting point is listed at 178C?
If this stuff melts at 178C, then it should be fine under normal operating conditions for us, but when the occasional electronics gaffe happens it will probably melt? I can't be certain, which is why I decided not to use it about two years ago.
Things that confuse me about these docs...the processing temp is 210 to 220, but the melting point is listed at 178C?
If this stuff melts at 178C, then it should be fine under normal operating conditions for us, but when the occasional electronics gaffe happens it will probably melt? I can't be certain, which is why I decided not to use it about two years ago.
Razor
Well-Known Member
The melting point you're looking at is not when it is in its final form but in a powder and pellet form if you're talking about a few post ago. When it's processed (the recommended processing temp is 210-220C), the melting point is higher from the looks of it and in either case, it must be sustained at that temperature for extended periods of time before it has any reaction.
As you can see in the PDF, there are many grades of Delrin. Just like metal, not every grade is created equal.
As you can see in the PDF, there are many grades of Delrin. Just like metal, not every grade is created equal.
For as many as they said have shipped out, not finding many (any) posts on any social media about it....