Kidney Disease and Cannabis

[little maggie]

Thanks.

I'm a little scared, but more frustrated. I did cheat, and had some dill pickles, and my back was so bad I only got some relief with 6 tablets of Aleve, spread out over 3 days. I don't know if that caused the spike down, or just didn't help things. I talk to the doctor on September 8th, and will discuss it with her then.

I'm sorry this is so difficult. Are you allowed to take aleve? I can only take tylenol or opiates- and I don't like opiates. That's why vaping is so helpful. I don't understand why they haven't put you on dialysis yet. I started before I had the horrible symptoms that you're dealing with. If you have a choice about what kind of dialysis make sure you get the ambulatory kind. I think people feel better on it than hemodialysis.

 

[grokit]

When my chronic inflammation gets out of hand (like now), I try and eat ketogenically or at least how I interpret it. For example tonight I will forgo the tacos once again and eat a bowl of sliced bananas with plain full fat greek yogurt and some raw pumpkin seeds. If you are allowed to eat like this it's worth a try imo.

 

[Vicki]

I'm sorry this is so difficult. Are you allowed to take aleve? I can only take tylenol or opiates- and I don't like opiates. That's why vaping is so helpful. I don't understand why they haven't put you on dialysis yet. I started before I had the horrible symptoms that you're dealing with. If you have a choice about what kind of dialysis make sure you get the ambulatory kind. I think people feel better on it than hemodialysis.

No, no Aleve. That's why I said I cheated when I took it. I'm not even allowed to take Tylenol, and I don't like the opiates either. I'm not sure when dialysis will be on the table, but I see my doctor September 9th.

When my chronic inflammation gets out of hand (like now), I try and eat ketogenically or at least how I interpret it. For example tonight I will forgo the tacos once again and eat a bowl of sliced bananas with plain full fat greek yogurt and some raw pumpkin seeds. If you are allowed to eat like this it's worth a try imo.

I have to be careful with my potassium intake too. It's actually high on my blood tests too.

 

[little maggie]

How are you doing with your kidneys?

 

[biohacker]

Hey Vicki, just curious what your Creatinine Kinase levels are like? Mine have been on the extreme high side of normal for years, and i'm told it could just be due to lifting weights because it's a muscle enzyme, but elevated levels have been implicated in kidney disease as well.

Hope you are doing better.

 

[Vicki]

How are you doing with your kidneys?

I've got a kidney infection, and am taking Cipro right now. The Doxycycline doesn't seem to be doing it's job preventing them.

Hey Vicki, just curious what your Creatinine Kinase levels are like? Mine have been on the extreme high side of normal for years, and i'm told it could just be due to lifting weights because it's a muscle enzyme, but elevated levels have been implicated in kidney disease as well.

Hope you are doing better.

My creatinine is 1.24 this time, not what I was hoping for. My eGFR is 48.

I see the doctor tomorrow morning to discuss it all.

 

[woolspinner]

@Vicki I just saw and finished reading this thread. My thoughts and best wishes are coming your way. Based on what you said about getting bumped to the bottom for a positive thc test, I hope even more for marijuana legalization. A friend's mom recovering from kidney cancer cannot get a mmj card in our legal state bc that will hurt her career which often can involve working for the DOJ. Can't work on gov't contracts if you had a mmj card.

I was very concerned when you said you were out. I do not know what your network is like where you live, but...if you want to expand it quickly, you might consider joining Massroots. There are a bunch of reckless kids on there, for sure, but there are also a lot of patients, growers, caregivers, and ordinary middle-aged working schmos like me (same handle, btw). Because it grabs your location from your mobile phone, you can build up your local network, which may help you overcome dry spells faster, if you get my meaning. I have "met" some interesting people, and follow not a few activists and artists.

Stay strong!

 

[Vicki]

Thank you @woolspinner

I'm trying to manage things better, and not rely on unreliable people anymore. I am wondering how my doctor will react to the recent numbers when I see her tomorrow. I'll report back after I see her.

 

[Vicki]

Ok, so, I saw my doctor today, and we discussed the labs. She is concerned, but I also told her I cheated with my diet some, and took Aleve. We made some med changes based on the labs, and a gene test. No more cheating with my diet, and no more OTC pain meds. If I get a headache, Oxycodone it is, I guess.

No dialysis yet because that is a big step.

 

[CarolKing]

I hope you feel better soon. This was cute, I know how you like cats.

 

[Vicki]

I hope you feel better soon. This was cute, I know how you like cats.

Thank you @CarolKing

That is adorable!

 

[DOOM]

My creatinine is 1.24 this time, not what I was hoping for. My eGFR is 48.

I see the doctor tomorrow morning to discuss it all.

How were your other #'s from kindey panel? My co-worker was able to get eGFR out of the 40's range and get back to 70-80 eGFR range. His creatinine was higher too. He's pretty young around 24 or so and played soccer in college. His only symptoms were pain in the kidney area. He rarely talks about it and never heard of a nephrologist. Is your nephrologist on top of things?

 

[little maggie]

I'm curious what the creatinine range is at your lab. My lab range is .60-1.20. I think my creatinine was at 2.1 or so when I went on dialysis. Make sure they put you on ambulatory dialysis if you ever get to the point where you need it. I think people feel much better on it than the other kind.
But why no OTC pain meds. I know you can't take anti-inflammatory ones like Aleve but what about tylenol? That's the only one I can take.

 

[Vicki]

I'm curious what the creatinine range is at your lab. My lab range is .60-1.20. I think my creatinine was at 2.1 or so when I went on dialysis. Make sure they put you on ambulatory dialysis if you ever get to the point where you need it. I think people feel much better on it than the other kind.
But why no OTC pain meds. I know you can't take anti-inflammatory ones like Aleve but what about tylenol? That's the only one I can take.

My doctor says Tylenol is just as bad, if not worse than Aleve and Motrin. The only thing I am allowed to take for pain is 5mg Oxycodone, and I break those in half.

Quest's Reference Range: 0.50-1.10 (mg/dL) Mine was 1.24 I hope I have a choice when it comes to dialysis, but I pray it doesn't come to that.

How were your other #'s from kindey panel? My co-worker was able to get eGFR out of the 40's range and get back to 70-80 eGFR range. His creatinine was higher too. He's pretty young around 24 or so and played soccer in college. His only symptoms were pain in the kidney area. He rarely talks about it and never heard of a nephrologist. Is your nephrologist on top of things?

You would have to be specific as to which numbers on my tests. I'm looking at my last Quest test right now, and there are so man y codes. My doctor is watching me like a hawk, and is being very restrictive as to what I can put in my body, including a special diet.

 

[grokit]

I'm curious what the creatinine range is at your lab. My lab range is .60-1.20. I think my creatinine was at 2.1 or so when I went on dialysis. Make sure they put you on ambulatory dialysis if you ever get to the point where you need it. I think people feel much better on it than the other kind.
But why no OTC pain meds. I know you can't take anti-inflammatory ones like Aleve but what about tylenol? That's the only one I can take.

You may want to look into/ask your doc about taking n-acetyl cysteine along with that tylenol, it will prevent the kidney issues that it has been associated with. Liver support is also important with acetaminophen.

 

[SativaShaman]

Hello Vicki. I too have kidney disease, diagnosed in 2010. My version is called Focal Sclerosis. I had one transplant that didn't go so well and I'm on the list again.

Dialysis really sucks, but you will feel SO MUCH BETTER once you've been on it for 6 months. The reason why they say not to ingest cannabis if you're on the list is 2 fold: First, UNOS doesn't want to give an organ to someone who has a "drug problem," and second is that there is a mold present in cannabis (and 90% of everything anywhere) which if smoked could compromise a transplanted organ so they want to limit that exposure. I vape wax, and the CO2 extraction kills all of these spores, as do nitrogen, butane, alcohol and glycol extractions. I never was able to satisfactorily answer the question if it's safe to vape flower, so I don't.

When I got sick I visited a Reiki healer in the midwest (famous man, renouned) and he said to drink the juice of 1/2 lemon in 4oz of water every day. It didn't save my kidneys though :-(

Luckily I didn't have any pain with my condition so I can't relate to your constant discomfort. One thing I can say is that my nephrologist in Colorado /encouraged/ me to smoke cannabis. During the 5 years of my treatment, I've kept accurate logs of my blood pressure and I can say unequivocally that cannabis definitely lowers my blood pressure.

good luck, hope you can feel better

 

[grokit]

I read that the chinese organ fast for the liver is lemon juice and evoo, while for the kidneys it's advised to juice watermelons. I happen to love the flavor of watermelon so a juice fast wouldn't be a problem

 

[sundrk]

found a pretty cool dissertation on renal CB receptor expression. Basically there's a bunch of canabinoid receptors in the kidney and their effects are poorly understood. THC must have some effect on the kidneys, good?, bad? we need more research.

http://vuir.vu.edu.au/25829/1/Kayte Jenkin.pdf

It's 300 pages long, I'm going to print it out and read it sometime

The Interesting stuff starts on pg. 42

In summary, as outlined in this review of the literature, rising levels of obesity and diabetes are principal factors leading to increased incidence of CKD globally. Viable therapeutic targets need to be established to safely combat the progression of renal damage associated with these chronic diseases. Cannabinoid receptors have been shown clinically mediate a number of physiological effects important in the pathophysiology of both obesity and diabetes. Emerging research also highlights that the endocannabinoid system has potentially a significant role in renal function. It is postulated that cannabinoid receptors may mediate CKD via a number of mechanisms including energy storage and expenditure, cardiovascular tone and the modulation of inflammatory and hypertrophic pathways. However, mechanistic
51 pathways of the endocannabinoid system in obesity and diabetic related renal damage is still poorly understood. Pharmacologically targeting cannabinoid receptors may provide useful targets for the clinical treatment of CKD. This thesis intends to examine renal expression and function of CB1, CB2 and GPR55 receptors, particularly within the pathophysiological context of obesity and diabetes related renal damage. Further, to elucidate whether pharmacologically targeting cannabinoid receptors may abrogate obesity related renal damage.

Seems like the major theme is:

CB1 agonist = bad
CB2 agonist = good

in the context of obesity/DM + kidney disease

 

[Vicki]

found a pretty cool dissertation on renal CB receptor expression. Basically there's a bunch of canabinoid receptors in the kidney and their effects are poorly understood. THC must have some effect on the kidneys, good?, bad? we need more research.

http://vuir.vu.edu.au/25829/1/Kayte Jenkin.pdf

It's 300 pages long, I'm going to print it out and read it sometime

The Interesting stuff starts on pg. 42

Thank you for posting this!! I read a little bit, but plan to read more. More research is definitely needed.

 

[Vicki]

Had my doctor's appointment yesterday. Numbers from my blood and urine work were not good, but a little better than last time. She kept all my meds the same, except she switched me from Oxycodone to Morphine.

 

[t-dub]

except she switched me from Oxycodone to Morphine.

I went the same way with my rheumatologist because the oxycodone made my legs itch horribly. After almost 5 years on morphine sulphate I had to quit because my wife said it was changing me . . .

Well I handed over the bottle and went through withdrawals for a week. It was the worst week of my entire life, I was really sick but I made it. So please be careful with that stuff.

 

[Vicki]

I went the same way with my rheumatologist because the oxycodone made my legs itch horribly. After almost 5 years on morphine sulphate I had to quit because my wife said it was changing me . . .

Well I handed over the bottle and went through withdrawals for a week. It was the worst week of my entire life, I was really sick but I made it. So please be careful with that stuff.

I remember that. I haven't even got it filled yet, but I'm waiting until I am out of Oxycodone. I already told hubby to keep an eye on me for any changes due to the morphine. It's a baby dose too, only 15mg tablets, immediate release. I'm gonna break the tablets in half too.

 

[Amoreena]

It's good to see your posts, @Vicki, and I wish you well.

 

[Vicki]

It's good to see your posts, @Vicki, and I wish you well.

Thanks @Amoreena

 

[little maggie]

I have the opposite experience with pain meds. Oxycodone does not make me itch but morphine does. The article is interesting. I had a transplant 15 years ago and have developed diabetes from the transplant medication. I think that vaping lowers my blood sugars- which is good.