Is Brass Safe?

[tuttle]

...300 years of brass coffee makers don't justify using it anymore - we have moved on. I'd rather use only materials that we know are ok in the human body (i.e. stainless 304).

Just to be clear, if "we" is the engineering community then no we have not moved on from brass. It is used extensively in both breathing systems and in potable water systems. It is used in hospitals, restaurants, and other life critical applications.

As for stainless being benign IN the human body, that is now being examined more closely, and this is what the NIH is saying; "...corrosion of implants can lead to the release of the biologically active hexavalent chromium into the body. This chromium is rapidly reduced to trivalent chromium in cells."

The issue with hexavalent chromium being reduced to trivalent chromium in cells is that normally trivalent chromium is not transported into cells. Once it is in the cell, it creates haptens that trigger immune response, which is the start of a lot of problems.

Also, according to the stainless manufacturers themselves, they state that "...heat and dust generating operations can generate airborne Cr+6, such as but not limited to: welding of stainless steel or chromium coated material, plasma cutting of stainless steel, and grinding and polishing." Welding and plasma cutting are clearly out of our temperature range, but grinding and especially polishing are well within our range.

To offer a blanket statement that stainless is safe and brass is not entirely true, there is no evidence at this point that one is safer that the other in this application.

 

[duh]

tuttle, I stand corrected, anything besides our own human cells in the human body tends to have negative issues. I have learned this first hand as I live w/a partial cyborg (hardware in the bones). We are thinking about getting the screws removed.

It comes down to longitudinal use for me. We know smoking is bad. We know vaping is less harmful (but imo likely still some). We use stainless silverware for 100s of years instead of lead and so far so good. If you let your food cool and use the right materials, there is no chance of chromium seepage as I think you are inferring.

Having said all of this, I have run into my own issues and am curious if there is a pattern or a red herring, but that is another thread.

Of course, these comments may be directed at buttle, as a fly may have hit my teleprinter...

 

[Purple-Days]

EPA list of AIR pollutants.

And we are talking about LEADED BRASS here, not true brass (tin and copper only) as is used in those specialized application that some are speaking of.

"if "we" is the engineering community then no we have not moved on from brass. It is used extensively in both breathing systems and in potable water systems." Two applications with different alloys. Note too that plated brass is isolated from the consumer and cannot really be compared to 'raw' leaded brass.

The new (california) laws for 2010 restricting the lead content of potable water system 'brass'. Ask yourself why...

Or, why we don't use lead in paint, or gasoline... WHY ? ? ?

This is not a discussion of brass safety. It is Leaded Brass that is the issue, and more specifically LEAD exposure.

 

[dadesign]

im going to disagree on this point.



does anyone remember the term..."it will put lead in your pencil"

maybe we need lead. it has been around for along long time. I have never heard of that many dying of lead poisoning ever....even if you eat paint chips with lead in them, have never heard of anyone dying. In the 70s it was every where..pencils paint gas.etc

maybe now we have become venerable to it because our immune systems have no exposure and we can't defend against it....well actually, I have a piece of lead pencil in my knee from when I was a kid. i am still very healthy and that is a big piece of lead.

haven't we become so afraid of everything in this world, and why. of course progress but what does progress produce. consumerism. when the cd came out we were told it would last forever so we bought all cds..now it is mp3 so we rebuy again (cause now they found out cds dont last forever) we buy new cars cause the old ones "we are told are deathtraps yet people buy those old vintage 70s deathtraps for good money. they are not concerned their are no airbags(even though I was saved twice from airbags) why are we really enlighted in the safe concerns??? ever wonder.......a good point would be maryjane is bad for us...but Marinol is made by a firm adn it is safe and legal......hmmmm wonder why I can buy a safe version of the same thing I get busted for having for free

another would be the recent Banks in the news.. the big banks will tell you if you are with thier big bank, your money is safer(well they do imply it I think) really they say it is more accessible. in fact it is just as safe ina small bank or credit union and probebly just as accessible why switch , except the incentives they offer....a free toaster?? a hundred bucks...hmm...

and why all of the sudden do we have to tint all the windows on school buses these days...I didnt have tinted windows or hell A/C in school. are they any better off....hmmm but I wish I would have at least had A/C I rememeber some days it sucked

I am sure there are many other examples of things used to entice us to buy but I

I dont feel it is a concern. or if it is, it is to unnoticeable..

 

[DevoTheStrange]

does anyone remember the term..."it will put lead in your pencil"

maybe now we have become venerable to it because our immune systems have no exposure and we can't defend against it....well actually, I have a piece of lead pencil in my knee from when I was a kid. i am still very healthy and that is a big piece of lead.

thats because it isnt lead, graphite, mostly just carbon
.. they havnt made pencils made out of lead since the 1500's.

 

[dadesign]

does anyone remember the term..."it will put lead in your pencil"

maybe now we have become venerable to it because our immune systems have no exposure and we can't defend against it....well actually, I have a piece of lead pencil in my knee from when I was a kid. i am still very healthy and that is a big piece of lead.

thats because it isnt lead, graphite, mostly just carbon
.. they havnt made pencils made out of lead since the 1500's.

well i will be damned. I looked it up because I thought they were up until the 80s. still I am sure I have been exposed before to it and probably now. I would have to use an electron microscope to see it and really not worth worrying about IMO

 

[lwien]

Lead exposure builds up over time and the prime symptoms of decreased mental capacity due to lead exposure are as follows:

Unable to spell correctly in written correspondence.
Inaccurate punctuation and capitalization in written correspondence.
A general rambling dialog.
An inability to recognize obvious dangers.

If you exhibit any of the above, I suggest to do what one can do to limit ones lead exposure, but the inability to recognize obvious dangers if one has already been exposed could limit such action, i.e., you're fucked.

 

[dadesign]

Lead exposure builds up over time and the prime symptoms of decreased mental capacity due to lead exposure are as follows:

Unable to spell correctly in written correspondence.
Inaccurate punctuation and capitalization in written correspondence.
A general rambling dialog.
An inability to recognize obvious dangers.

If you exhibit any of the above, I suggest to do what one can do to limit ones lead exposure, but the inability to recognize obvious dangers if one has already been exposed, could limit such action, i.e., you're fucked.

oh what ever I just ype to fast and dont check it before I send sometimes. the rambling...well those are my demons

 

[Purple-Days]

http://www.kdheks.gov/ables/occupation.html

Kansas Department of Health etc.

Two interesting items.

paragraph 2: "The leading cause of lead poisoning in adults is through inhalation of lead dust or lead vapor. "

it continues...

"The lead then enters the bloodstream and is distributed to all tissues throughout the body. Health effects as a result of lead exposure are directly related with the concentration of lead. At low levels of exposure, slight changes in nervous system function and muscle and joint pain can occur."

Nice...

http://www.allbusiness.com/primary-metal-manufacturing/foundries/930433-1.html

"About 25 years ago the federal government got involved, and ofter its initiatives to remove lead from gasoline and paint matured, it served notice on the foundry industry that it would have to seek lead-free alternatives to its casting alloys that used lead.

In June 1991, OSHA gave metalcasters five years to comply with an in-plant air standard that was 25 percent of the lead level at which it was then operating. Then, in the mid-90s, California passed Proposition 65, which allowed only 5 parts per billion (ppb) of lead in potable water. Lawsuits were filed against faucet manufacturers that made fixtures from lead-bearing brass alloys. The manufacturers lost these suits, effectively forcing the issue of lead-free brass alloys."

Another interesting thing. Lead-Free pet tags. That's right even pet owners are shunning Lead in favor of lead free base metals.

http://shop.theanimalrescuesite.com/store/item.do?itemId=31243&siteId=310
"Made in the U.S.A. with silver-plated, lead-free base metals."

http://www.smartpakcanine.com/ProductClass.aspx?productClassId=6084
"These lead free pewter tags feature colorful... Made in San Francisco, CA, USA!"

http://www.animalstars.com/basic_tags.html
"These tags are plated antique silver over lead free metal.
These tags are not manufactured by us - Made in China"

Even the Chinese can make a lead free tag.

 

[dadesign]

i don't suppose there is any way to remove said build up of lead huh. I think i will still be fine, but others can avert themselves. I probably do have that cause I do get that sometimes, but who can tell if it is because of that or something else. to each their own

 

[Lo]

Well I don't know too much about the technical stuff but my husband has lead poisoning and it came from years of melting lead. 3 generations of plumbers who melted lead to make fishing weights plus soldered, played with lead joints. It literally has damagaed his brain but not to the point of making him non-functional.

Our md is homeopathic and tried some chelation thing where they hooked him up to iv's for treatments to try and lower the lead levels. It was not successful and we're told that the body cannot tell the difference between lead and calcium so it stores lead as if it were calcium.

Lead paint has also lead to learning disabilities in children from literature I've read when my husband was being treated.

I am not commenting on any device, just lead itself

 

[tuttle]

Of course, these comments may be directed at buttle, as a fly may have hit my teleprinter...

Vaping is a skill set similar to that of a renegade air conditioning specialist

And we are talking about LEADED BRASS here, not true brass (tin and copper only) as is used in those specialized application that some are speaking of.

"if "we" is the engineering community then no we have not moved on from brass. It is used extensively in both breathing systems and in potable water systems." Two applications with different alloys. Note too that plated brass is isolated from the consumer and cannot really be compared to 'raw' leaded brass.

The new (california) laws for 2010 restricting the lead content of potable water system 'brass'. Ask yourself why...

Or, why we don't use lead in paint, or gasoline... WHY ? ? ?

This is not a discussion of brass safety. It is Leaded Brass that is the issue, and more specifically LEAD exposure.

I'm not at all trying to say that lead exposure shouldn't be mitigated when we have the chance, and I commend you for being transparent with your material choices so a potential buyer can make an informed decision about doing just that. The only point I am trying to illustrate is that for one reason or another many board members seem to have vilified all types of brass, ignoring its very widespread use (as you point out in several alloys) in systems upstream of human ingestion while simultaneously accepting the safety of another metal seemingly without any investigation.

As a realist, I know that the likelihood of harm due to inhalation through stainless (in any alloy) is exceptionally low at the range of temperatures that we experience; however I feel the same is true of unleaded brass. I took the thread title as a "is brass safe at any speed" type of question, to which I feel the answer is "yes." If the question is lead safe, than obviously "no."

 

[dadesign]

well that is alot of exposure to lead and unfortunate too.

no way to remove it is really bad..I dont think I was ever exposed to that much or even a 50th of it but I am sure I have some and I don't think it will hurt If the said device does have trace amounts. that is just my view on it. i think we find all manner of new dangers in our lives...I just read where they now think the appendix was used to remove poisons from our bodies and help with immune systems..... ain't that a bitch...but hey I still got mine..as long as it dont explode in me

 

[Purple-Days]

Can't you ^^^ EVER, let another poster have the last word?

Let's see...

VVV

 

[dadesign]

this thread is a conversation, NOT your final word

Don't you just hate it when someone comes in to a thread and starts to defend "for the greater good" and thinks their word should be gospel
I have seen your other posts with your pitbul Hennessey. you don't think that shit goes unnoticed huh.. you or your minion has got my threads shut down and my comments removed.....all because YOU wont let shit sit..I have tried to shut my mouth but really fucking pisses me off is egotistical people.

in fact it is like I am public enemy number one.

all because and old fucking mad who rips off plans, garners idea with the plan maker and then sells the shit as your own...

and you can call in your forum goons and tell them " I am nothing but trouble" so you can maintian what you say to the others" and they will kick me off of here which really I dont give a damn anymore, I already told them to close my account..what do I have to lose


and dont say for one minute you have never inflenunced anyone to do what you want, when you know damn well you have..

your just a sad pathetic thief who is hoping his pockets dont shrink too soon. at first I just thought it was some goons but now I see it is you doing the manipulationg

FUCK YOU OLD MAN

 

[vtac]

Is brass safe in a vaporizer? I asked a biochemist who specializes in air quality testing. He's also a fan of vaporizing.

He said he wouldn't be worried about it. If the brass was getting hot enough to emit metallic fumes, your herb would be incinerated. The brass isn't getting anywhere near melting temps, so metal isn't going to be vaporized.

 

[vtac]

this thread is a conversation, NOT your final word

Don't you just hate it when someone comes in to a thread and starts to defend "for the greater good" and thinks their word should be gospel
I have seen your other posts with your pitbul Hennessey. you don't think that shit goes unnoticed huh.. you or your minion has got my threads shut down and my comments removed.....all because YOU wont let shit sit..I have tried to shut my mouth but really fucking pisses me off is egotistical people.

in fact it is like I am public enemy number one.

all because and old fucking mad who rips off plans, garners idea with the plan maker and then sells the shit as your own...

and you can call in your forum goons and tell them " I am nothing but trouble" so you can maintian what you say to the others" and they will kick me off of here which really I dont give a damn anymore, I already told them to close my account..what do I have to lose


and dont say for one minute you have never inflenunced anyone to do what you want, when you know damn well you have..

your just a sad pathetic thief who is hoping his pockets dont shrink too soon. at first I just thought it was some goons but now I see it is you doing the manipulationg

FUCK YOU OLD MAN

Dude, what is wrong with you? I know the internet is serious business but you might be taking this a bit overboard.

Take a month to calm down.

 

[Beezleb]

Im fine with brass, but its not in my vaporizer, well as far as I know anyways but it isnt an issue I worry about it nor believe it is a health issue I am concerned about.

For others it may or may not be an issue but I respect the views others have on it.

 

[max]

If this thread is going to continue to just stir up finger pointing posts at the vapes and their supporters, we'll just shut it down. I don't know if there's anything of value left to be said on the topic anyway.

 

[highendvapes]

Thank You vtac.

I smoked out of a brass proto pipe for at least 10 years, and had all kinds of different one hitters on bongs and such made of brass throughout the years. I {twitch} think that {twitch} its fine.

 

[bluntfaced]

SO BRASS IS A OKAY!!

 

[exdmd]

If you want to worry about lead, worry about the faucets in your home. If they were made before 1997, your bathroom faucets most likely contain 8% lead, which will leach into your water. Well known health hazard.

I'm a retired chemist, and not worried about trace amounts of lead in brass used in some vaporizers. I have a Myrtlezap on the way.

 

[reece]

Dude, what is wrong with you? I know the internet is serious business but you might be taking this a bit overboard.

Take a month to calm down.

He definitely reacts poorly to having his buttons pushed. But they are being pushed. We both have gotten nasty emails from Hennessey1414. These emails were sent using FC. I seriously doubt we are the only people he has done this to, but I don't know. But two instances should surely get him a time out if dadesigns actions get him one. Just my

mod note: We can't police emails. That's private communication and any references to email content on the forum will be deleted. Every member has the option in Profile settings to receive email from other members, or not. The same goes for revealing your email address to other members-it's an option.

 

[bluntfaced]

word

 

[lwien]

Henny has been disciplined, more than once, I believe.