Discontinued InVerzion Vaporizer

invertedisdead

OG Baller
I think the best way to promote your own vape is to continue to seem like you cant function after using it ;P

70% of people HERE did say they prefer quick and heavy vapor!
... although I did fund that study... :D

I've mainly been a lurker but I've been following your thread for awhile I cant wait to try both your vapes out when you release them! Keep up the great work!

Thank you very much for following along!!! I appreciate your kind thoughts and interest in my aromatherapy designs :rockon:
 

invertedisdead

OG Baller
Disassembled the InV1 yesterday for a few modifications.

Finer mesh in the bowl to substantially reduce particulate pass-thru. This was a long overdue upgrade!

I’ve removed the aluminum shim and have tightened the coil to directly heat the glass housing. I’ve got the coil fitted very similarlet to my quartz bangers, snug, but still removable when the coil clip is unhooked. This is how it was meant to be, so I’m currently satisfied! For those jumping in this thread later, the coil fitment has always been off on this prototype as it was a quirky idea to circumvent the tolerances of Glass by trying a 19mm part with a 20mm coil. The final housing will be 20mm diameter to match the 20mm coil l, just as my prototype was.

Ive also opened up the airflow by removing the “oven door” ball-valve. I’ve done this once before already so we’ll see, but it’s possible that a different air inlet mechanism will be used on the final version. Overall I find the Oven Door concept effective in theory, but it does seem that it has a tendency to jam up from handling the vaporizer, and quite a few times I’ve had to stick a stir tool or dabber down the inlet to open up the proper flow rate. That’s not ideal on a vaporizer of this caliber so we’ll be remedying that, I believe I already outlined most of my alternative inlet options a few months ago in my sketches so I’ll take a look there.

So far these mods are working great, achieving solid vapor now at 500-600F on the PID with incredible flavor and pretty respectable clouds.

Some White Widow simmering at 600F on the MaxVapor this morning, not my biggest vapor producer or bowl pack in the house but this was a tasty breakfast :D



Appreciate everyone following along!! I know plugins aren’t as popular as they used to be, but I’m really stoked that this many people are interested in ultra pure, heavy hitting desktops!:leaf:
 

muunch

hotboxing the cockpit
Appreciate everyone following along!! I know plugins aren’t as popular as they used to be, but I’m really stoked that this many people are interested in ultra pure, heavy hitting desktops!:leaf:

Hoping to see this for sale soon! Could use a nice powerful vape... have some serious material backlog and I need a vape worthy!

Hope you are well and healthy bro
:science::spliff:
 

invertedisdead

OG Baller
Hmmmmm.... so don’t try to tighten your coil while the vape is attached....... my pliers slipped................... and.......

21-C6-A23-C-183-E-46-D0-AE0-E-1-FF9-E1-C27-CDF.jpg


Needless to say I am literally crushed.... 😂
I don’t believe a moment of silence is appropriate here, if we could all just join hands and yell out one extra loud FUCK that would be great! 😂
 

invertedisdead

OG Baller
So after a little time to think, based on the amount of fracture I think I actually cracked it the first time I heard a "bad sound," and just couldn't see it yet since the vape was sitting in the coil; and my second squeeze of the pliers must have been the death blow. SO how did this happen? I noticed a gap in the coil fitment opposite of the air inlet, and removed the vape to snug it up ~95% of the way there. I was pretty much content with this and ready to fire the thing up for a session, but I let my obsessiveness get the best of me it, figured I'd squeeze out the rest of the gap, and wanted to keep the rest of the coils form steady while tightening up just one side, so I wrapped the assembly in a t shirt to avoid marring the coil, unfortunately the shirt provided padding but not necessarily the grip I was looking for, the pliers slipped, and crushed my part.

Truthfully this has been a pretty bad week for me and glass! Broke my water pipe a week ago reaching around it to grab something, then a few days ago the bowl to the InVerzion vaporizer slipped out of my hand, bounced off the foot of my other water pipe and broke. So I went without this vape for a few days waiting for new glass to arrive, higher quality adapters with a better shape, without the tapers and bulges in many 18-14mm adapters to promote more even vaporization and reduce/eliminate stirring. So I am a bit disappointed that I only got to try out the new bowls for one evening. These bowls were much improved but did highlight an issue I had not noticed yet, with darker AVB on one side of the bowl. This is what prompted me to adjust the coil fitment in the first place. However I'm now thinking that the air inlet design was probably causing the uneven vaporization and not maximizing air flow through the bead pack. My first prototype of this vaporizer used a top fed air inlet which did seem to produce denser vapor, and for a while I have been considering reverting to that design. I had thought the coil fitment was prompting the uneven color, but after thinking back to my time with the VROD and that center pin, and airflows path of least resistance I started thinking it could very likely be due to my minimalist, yet unsymmetrical air inlet. I think what it comes down to is these bead designs aren't actually creating as much turbulent airflow as we think, at least not enough for completely homogeneous mixing; I noticed when Troy uses his SSV43 he has to spin the spherical wand manually for the same reason, the hot air is still not mixing perfectly.

So I guess with these recent events, now is as good as ever to explore some re-designs. In fact this breaking was probably for the best as it's lit a fire under my ass and forcing me to make some moves!

I've been thinking about this one for quite a while, very similar to my last, only the coil arm is inverted so that the coil sits on top of it. This design is based around a 16mm coil on the idea that it would be simpler/cheaper to build since the joint already comes formed on 16mm tubing. These costs can add up when moving from borosilicate to fused quartz, which is the inspiration behind this design. These inlet holes would also open up the draw restriction a bit which I think would improve the airflow.

Smashing-Kieran.png


Curious to hear what you folks think, questions, comments, criticisms, etc!
 

Cheebsy

Organicly inVerted
Hey man, really sorry to hear about recent breakages, but as you say sometimes it takes something like this to happen to reignite the passion in a project so good for you for turning it into a positive :rockon:

It's hard to tell, unless I've missed something, is the intake now a matrix of holes in the upper surface and the old intake that comes off the side is just a mounting point for the coil and no longer an intake at all?

I'm intrigued to know how much ball size plays a part in this design over the last, my instinct says it might make a real difference to the mixing capability, maybe even a layers of different sizes balls would come into play.
 

invertedisdead

OG Baller
It's hard to tell, unless I've missed something, is the intake now a matrix of holes in the upper surface and the old intake that comes off the side is just a mounting point for the coil and no longer an intake at all?

Thank you! Yes that’s exactly right; Or, the coil arm could stay on top like the current version, and I could keep the 20mm coil, just switching to this multi holed air inlet style.

I'm intrigued to know how much ball size plays a part in this design over the last, my instinct says it might make a real difference to the mixing capability, maybe even a layers of different sizes balls would come into play.

Smaller spheres increase surface area quite considerably - I tried 2mm in my 14mm torch vape and it was super powerful, It also affects draw restriction though so it’s a give and take. I’ve got another solution for improved mixing that I’ve already tested and the differences were very obvious, I’ll be incorporating that into the next one, which I think paired with a more symmetrical air inlet design will solve all mixing issues and for the most part eliminate stirring.
 

Vaporware

Well-Known Member
I have some concerns about that attachment arm. It looks a lot like a thicker version of the handle on the glass bowls NewVape (and I’m sure a lot of others) use. I’ve been okay with them, but I’ve heard of a lot of people breaking them off.

If that breaks off the rest of it will slide right through the coil and fall...if it’s hot that could be pretty bad.

When I’ve thought about designs like this I’ve thought that there should be a built-in glass lip at the top (so it can’t fall off unless it shatters) and have something at the bottom to hold it in place...that could be a threaded glass ring or other secure glass connection, or maybe a smaller lip (with a right angle on the top) that could hold a metal ring which would be attached to an arm/clamp/whatever. That would attach to the coil and make the whole thing much sturdier.

The arm may be stronger than I think, but it seems like it would really depend on the strength of the joint which could vary from unit to unit.

Also, while most people could probably adjust a coil if they had to, it would be good if you could offer some with pre-fit coils to help people avoid what just happened to you.

You are less likely to break these every time you adjust them, but most people buying one would be doing it for the first time so I think there might be a lot of breakage.

I think the change to top airflow is a good idea too. :)
 

Haze Mister

Well-Known Member
Looking foward to the OG version with diamonds, for the truly ultimate vapor experience! :mental:Diamonds have ridiculous thermal properties (but might take forever to heat up).... silica carbide could be a more down to earth option for the beads: it apparently out-performs everything but diamonds for thermal inertia...
 

invertedisdead

OG Baller
I have some concerns about that attachment arm. It looks a lot like a thicker version of the handle on the glass bowls NewVape (and I’m sure a lot of others) use. I’ve been okay with them, but I’ve heard of a lot of people breaking them off.

If that breaks off the rest of it will slide right through the coil and fall...if it’s hot that could be pretty bad.

When I’ve thought about designs like this I’ve thought that there should be a built-in glass lip at the top (so it can’t fall off unless it shatters) and have something at the bottom to hold it in place...that could be a threaded glass ring or other secure glass connection, or maybe a smaller lip (with a right angle on the top) that could hold a metal ring which would be attached to an arm/clamp/whatever. That would attach to the coil and make the whole thing much sturdier.

The arm may be stronger than I think, but it seems like it would really depend on the strength of the joint which could vary from unit to unit.

Also, while most people could probably adjust a coil if they had to, it would be good if you could offer some with pre-fit coils to help people avoid what just happened to you.

You are less likely to break these every time you adjust them, but most people buying one would be doing it for the first time so I think there might be a lot of breakage.

I think the change to top airflow is a good idea too. :)

Really appreciate you taking the time to chime in! This feedback is crucial and I definitely welcome these discussions, I want to build honestly great vaporizers so I’m glad we have this forum here to this.

I definitely plan to offer them pre-fitted to make it easy, it just sucks I don’t have any extra inventory to replace mine lol!:rip:

To address the coil arm: if it were to break on the above rendering it would be hypothetically protected from falling down by the 19mm joint acting as a fail-safe for the 16mm coil since it can’t pass through it. It could slip out from the top in that scenario; however I know from years of quartz banger usage that when the coil is properly fitted it doesn’t really slip right out, especially when heated to temp - you want a snug enough fit to obtain good thermal transfer from the coil, but loose enough so it can be removed when cold without binding up. I feel the coil arm is important to assist in the proper fitment and also to act as a safety net to hold the coil. Realistically when it comes to vapes like this the biggest issue with a breakage at temp would be hot beads falling out, that wouldn’t be good - just the reality of these ball vapes.

I’m honestly not familiar with the newvape bowls breaking but I would assume that might be an issue with import glasswork versus domestic scientific labware quality. The above rendering would be manufactured from fused quartz so it would be able to withstand extreme temperature changes.

Unfortunately with glass being such a unique material, even some of the simplest features possible with metal (like a hole) can be very complex or cost prohibitive with glass. A glass nut that locks the coil in like a flowerpot would be fantastic, but likely just too expensive to build. It would be possible though. The problem is glass has a low “perceived value” from its inherent fragility so people don’t want to spend a lot of money on it, this calls for simpler designs; particularly if any type of quantity was to ever be produced. I could build a glass vape with all the bells and whistles but people overall don’t want to pay Volcano Hybrid prices for glass so I have to stick to KISS principals and keep it very simple. I guess I’ll just mention this here since we’re on the topic: I’ve got another design which doesn’t even involve the coil arm - the idea being the 16mm coil sits on top of the 19mm joint which holds it in place on the bottom, and is secured on top by a stainless steel ring clamp to fasten the coil in place. The inspiration here being to just keep the tubing as round as possible for optimal coil fitment and ease of production.

Looking foward to the OG version with diamonds, for the truly ultimate vapor experience! :mental:Diamonds have ridiculous thermal properties (but might take forever to heat up).... silica carbide could be a more down to earth option for the beads: it apparently out-performs everything but diamonds for thermal inertia...

I’ve definitely considered silicon carbide, but I’ve got better designs in that direction if we want to head that way! :sherlock:

synthetic moissanite is very similar to diamond, it’s basically crystalline silicon carbide in its purest form:brow::brow:

Appreciate everyone following along! Thank you!! Prototype coming tomorrow for my all glass on demand convection vape....🤪
 

Haze Mister

Well-Known Member
I am obsessed with this tech- it seems to be so far the best way to vape herb, going by what I've been experiencing the last few days :)

Here are some general musings:

-For torching, 3-4mm beads seems the way to go... for coils, maybe 5mm would give more airflow without losing heat.

-For DIY : Sapphire beads for jewellery can be bought much cheaper than terp pearls... even if they crack it' s not much of an issue ...

-There is pink sapphire out there, which I would very much like to get my hands on!

-I'm fine just going DIY and using cheap borosilicate adapters, but would be interested in upgrading and buying a heater made of quartz, with air holes at the top (3mm holes for using with 4-5mm beads?)..if holes are not possible then lots of slits? flower of life ? I would prefer to just buy the heater and source my own beads to fill it with.

Ideally for me it would be designed for torch use as I don't plan on getting a coil in my living room just yet.... so it could be a little bit taller/ fatter than a coil driven heater, and without a side-arm.
I agree that the side-arm is not ideal from a design and durability POV... How about simple ridges around top and bottom of heater where some kind of metal clip or stiff wire (silver?) can securely be attached to... edit: maybe the same ridge that is used to hold the screen (that holds the beads) in place can be used..

-The bowl is something to think about. I am using an 18mm to 14mm adapter as the bowl and the conical shape works quite well, but the smooth insides make it a PITA to position a screen properly. The only option is to let the bowl gunk up a bit so that the screen can stick to the walls. This means I have to have a dirty looking bowl (and tainting the flavour). An 18mm to18m adapter has a recess in the middle which would hold a screen, but there is also a bulge there where herb would get trapped and not get baked thoroughly- maybe less efficient.

I would like to get a glazed ceramic 18mm to 18mm bowl made, with smooth conical inside and a titanium screen baked in! ... The opaque ceramic would look neat and hide the dirt when looking at the rig sideways, and I won't need to clean the bowl every time!
 
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invertedisdead

OG Baller
I am obsessed with this tech- it seems to be so far the best way to vape herb, going by what I've been experiencing the last few days :)

Here are some general musings:

-For torching, 3-4mm beads seems the way to go... for coils, maybe 5mm would give more airflow without losing heat.

-For DIY : Sapphire beads for jewellery can be bought much cheaper than terp pearls... even if they crack it' s not much of an issue ...

-There is pink sapphire out there, which I would very much like to get my hands on!

-I'm fine just going DIY and using cheap borosilicate adapters, but would be interested in upgrading and buying a heater made of quartz, with air holes at the top (3mm holes for using with 4-5mm beads?)..if holes are not possible then lots of slits? flower of life ? I would prefer to just buy the heater and source my own beads to fill it with.

Ideally for me it would be designed for torch use as I don't plan on getting a coil in my living room just yet.... so it could be a little bit taller/ fatter than a coil driven heater, and without a side-arm.
I agree that the side-arm is not ideal from a design and durability POV... How about simple ridges around top and bottom of heater where some kind of metal clip or stiff wire (silver?) can securely be attached to... edit: maybe the same ridge that is used to hold the screen (that holds the beads) in place can be used..

-The bowl is something to think about. I am using an 18mm to 14mm adapter as the bowl and the conical shape works quite well, but the smooth insides make it a PITA to position a screen properly. The only option is to let the bowl gunk up a bit so that the screen can stick to the walls. This means I have to have a dirty looking bowl (and tainting the flavour). An 18mm to18m adapter has a recess in the middle which would hold a screen, but there is also a bulge there where herb would get trapped and not get baked thoroughly- maybe less efficient.

I would like to get a glazed ceramic 18mm to 18mm bowl made, with smooth conical inside and a titanium screen baked in! ... The opaque ceramic would look neat and hide the dirt when looking at the rig sideways, and I won't need to clean the bowl every time!

The Glass Symphony used 5mm balls but it was quite a bit bigger, the InV1 was always envisioned to take what made that vape great and shrink it down into a less intimidating form factor. Though you could run any size you want, smaller spheres will increase performance.

The key principals of the GS was a heater completely isolated from the air/vapor path, and glass purity throughout. The external coil design was chosen to simplify the process JoJo went through of mounting a cartridge heater with thermal paste to a glass housing to isolate it from the vaporizer; though it would be thermodynamically preferable to use an internal heater, the glass heater enclosure was one of the more finicky aspects of the GS build IMO, though I definitely have internal cartridge heater based designs that omit the coil, a 3.5mm or 1/4" cartridge heater or even a soldering element has been considered, but it's easiest to use a coil for complete vapor path isolation. With these other designs you're pretty much opting for a heater in the pathway. Ease of production and assembly is a key component to this vaporizer design: it was my understanding that the G43 was involving to build, the external coil simplifies this assembly process considerably, though achieving the ideal fitment is to be determined. However I honestly think coil fitment is something that would be much easier to handle at scale with parts in stock where heater bodies and coils can be readily paired based on their natural tolerance variations and not actually need much hands-on adjusting. That's what I'm assuming these quartz banger/e-nail guys are doing.

As far as the screen: you might try making a basket screen if a flat one is moving around too much, they stay in place well enough in my bowls that I can brush out after each session with my trusty S&B brush. You could sandblast a glass bowl for a frosted look if you wanted to reduce its opacity without going to ceramic.
 

rodders83

Well-Known Member
I just had a quick peek and realized you were doing this! :)

Am i right in understanding the heaters on the outaide and you heat the entire bowl like a milder quartz nail for the flower? I had thought about that but not using balls but now it makes sense quartz and balls and an outside heater. Id buy one of those if it had a big all glass screen system as well. Thats my godlike vape i am waiting on every part of it is glass inc screen and bowl.


When you said the symphony was using thermal paste, I didnt like that i also dont like the heaters being inside either. Its only time until all vapes heat up quartz bowls having heaters in the airpath is simply vaporizer evolution mk1. Its the goop in the pond the other design is like when the goop grew legs and walked to become apes and then man.

:D
 

invertedisdead

OG Baller
Am i right in understanding the heaters on the outaide and you heat the entire bowl like a milder quartz nail for the flower? I had thought about that but not using balls but now it makes sense quartz and balls and an outside heater. Id buy one of those if it had a big all glass screen system as well. Thats my godlike vape i am waiting on every part of it is glass inc screen and bowl.

That's exactly right, a lot of inspiration for this vape came from my time with quartz bangers, e-nails, and dabbing. I even tried to make a convection conversion kit for a quartz banger, but the airflow routing on a nail isn't really ideal for that. The original goal was to use custom glass screens to eliminate any potential metallic ions and control the electrostatic charge of the aerosol, it's just tricky to implement without becoming cost prohibitive. The original InV1 prototype used a glass "turbine" screen made of indentations which retained the beads (I think there's a picture in this thread somewhere) and the idea is the beads were loaded through the air inlet/coil arm for a very minimalist design. The only issue with that design is the glass turbine screen pushes the heater a bit further from the load which is the biggest issue with glass convection vapes IMO, reducing the effects of inverse square while using these ground glass joints for easy connection.

Potentially the original coil arm/air inlet design could just be re-implemented with an additional air hole coming in from the top for increased circulation. Other issue with the turbine screen is it was designed for 4mm beads, now I'm running 3mm beads so it would have to be built to even tighter tolerances, but even a simple glass screen like that increases my costs by ~33%. I'm honestly not sure what the advanced glass screens I designed would cost, I polled this thread and most people didn't seem to care, but true all glass path is still something I am most interested in. Though the actual mass of metal in this is still very low comparatively to 99% of vaporizers, under .25g of stainless steel total in the last prototype so any metallic ions are extremely low. This leaves room for only smooth, tasty, and pure vapor!

Its only time until all vapes heat up quartz bowls having heaters in the airpath is simply vaporizer evolution mk1. Its the goop in the pond the other design is like when the goop grew legs and walked to become apes and then man.

:rofl::rofl::rofl: Love that!!!! The name I was thinking of branding my products under even relates to this :rockon::rockon::rockon::rockon:


when can i buy this beast?

Hopefully soon, but the reality is any new design will need some time to be evaluated, I'm not trying to be like some of those other vape companies who sell the undeveloped versions to fund the next one. My view is the folks whom are interested in a vape like this are going to be the most critical of all, so I just want to make sure everything delivers as it should and makes a great first impression.
 

rodders83

Well-Known Member
@invertedisdead

Very cool bro things like this can kickstart a trend hopefully it does. I got a point to say about glass from my POV though, The screen cost for glass surely long term the customer saves his money? I wonder how many like me lose some due to careless cleaning i know some torch and iso thiers and have loads on rotation but i havent been doong it as i got no torch lol. So id save a lot on screens by having one glass screen.


Does a glass screen system also add a little heat mass too? I always wanted a system with one that i like but not as of yet. What totally killed them for me was they get dirty very fast so i needed two screens and two bowls but to me its still probably worth it. Im planning on doing it to the verdamper with the roor vapor bowl too. :)


Goodluck though bro in whatever versions you manage its exciting to see vapes without ions and smells and other things that are in the path which basically is all my vapes so Verdamper has a smell, Herborizer Ti has ions, The OG XL has silicon smell and the Mighty has Aluminum bowl and for some who use the Cooling unit a plastic airpath yuck yuck yuck even the plastic bags of the volcano disgust me. Theres zero need for this if we can put a fuking man on the moon dont shit me and tell me they cant heat a glass bowl to 215c or so in the core where the herb is.
 

Haze Mister

Well-Known Member
It's true that most of the herb vaporizers on the market are not good enough. Many are downright shit. None compare to this system, IMO. This morning I had the best vapor hit ever with my glass & quartz bead heater and my torch... and the day before.... I can get lungfuls of thick full-flavoured vapor within less than 90 seconds from cold, every time, and the load is thoroughly roasted with no wispy hits.... this is a game changer for vaping herb. :love:
 

Arbornaut

Well-Known Member
Hey there @invertedisdead !

Ever since I got into enails for dabs I've been playing around with DIY enail flower vapes. I remember turning a titanium nail into basically a flowerpot. That's what made me eventually splurge on a flowerpot, since I loved the whole concept enough to want one professionally made. I always played around with the idea in my head about an enail based glass heater, and ever since the SSV mod came about I wondered about using pearls as well. Never more than a thought in my head tho, so its really cool seeing you actually making something similar, and how well it actually works!

Just curious- why not make it an 18mm female attachment? That way it can connect to am 18mm male adapter with a basket screen load, or joint load. This would also bring the heater a lot closer to the herb I would think. It would also make dosing a lot easier.

You've inspired me to actually play around with some ideas, but I have no idea where to get terp pearls that are not around $10 a peice. Lol I have some cheap 6mm quartz pearls, but they're probably too big.

One more thing. I was looking at an 18mm old style glass bowl from New Vape... wouldn't that make a good one? 20mm coil fits nice (3 wrap) right under where it gets fatter after the joint, and would just need to be tightened a little at the bottom wrap. Fill it with pearls, and cap with a basket sceen - then if it gets hot enough, you could do dabs on top of the glass screen! :D not sure it is enough mass tho. Maybe some more beads can go in the bowl, and then the bowl capped with a domed screen or something...

Anyway, I really like where you've taken the whole enail glass heater adapter idea... i definitely wouldn't have thought to use a whip adapter - pretty genius way to trap the heat more for sure, but also to help stabilize the coil.

Cheers!
 
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