TransHumanC
Inhalater shill account
I use 4 for shisha tobacco.
Discontinued Inhalater XP
- Thread starter JoeKickass
- Start date
GreenBeans
Well-Known Member
I have model 117x, does that make mine a Q3? Hasn't skipped a beat yet and its been going strong since July.
hiphiphooray
Well-Known Member
July means it isn't a Q3. Q3 Have only been released since last 2 weeks.
@Inhalater, you posted a breakdown of the exact temperature for each setting for the 10 configuration Q3 earlier. Can we get a similar temperature range breakdown for the 8 setting units put out this week? Knowing the exact temperature of each settings helps target specific cannabinoids
Snake Plissken
Transcendentalist
I also have been worried about this. This is what I meant when I said that each version seems like a totally different vape. I'm confused as to why the location of the sensor keeps getting changed - especially when it seems as if they already found the sweet spot.
With the temperature breakdowns we've been given, it seems as if any difference in vape quality (as relates to dial position) should be minor. Instead it seems to be drastically different. Producing good vapor at lower temps was a big selling point for me. We've also been told that running the vape at the higher settings will reduce life expectancy - and that appears to be needed now.
If the temp guide we have been given is accurate, it is about a 20 degree (F) jump from each dial position. If good vapor is not being produced until you hit the 6th position, that should be around 420 degrees (F). Does this mean that you get little to no visible vapor until you hit combustion levels?
While I understand that clouds are not the goto indicator of success, vapor to air ratio is important to me and should be high before combustion occurs (imo).
I was ready to pull the trigger on this, but who knows what vape I would even get. What is being promoted today could be totally different than the vape being shipped to me tomorrow. W/ the sensor location being changed (if that is even what is going on), This vape seems to have lost a lot of the effectiveness that drew people to it in the 1st place. Still hopeful, but confused.
Sensor position is stabilised and was an important factor in controling temperature precisely.
The enlargement of temperature range changed indicated setting number for a given temperature. Temperature where visible vapor is produced did not change. High temp user will use the uppermost part of the dial and low temp user will have the bottom part.
Q2 only had high temp from 2-6; uppermost of dial was not used even by high temp users.
Q3 has it all for everyone.
The enlargement of temperature range changed indicated setting number for a given temperature. Temperature where visible vapor is produced did not change. High temp user will use the uppermost part of the dial and low temp user will have the bottom part.
Q2 only had high temp from 2-6; uppermost of dial was not used even by high temp users.
Q3 has it all for everyone.
HerbalHealing
Well-Known Member
I don't see what difference it makes. All XP's should be able to reach a user's desired temp, just at a different # on the dial # than other models. If the highest setting is still not enough, you might as well combust since most medicinal users do not require temps that high.
I cannot understand how one model produces different vapor density than another XP at the SAME temp, even if the dial # shows different. Unless it's different material or different humidity of the material perhaps?
If an old XP is 375 on setting 6, and a new one is 375 on setting 8, It's STILL running at 375.
Both still provide adequate ranges from low to high, so why do we care if the dial scale reads 1-10 or 1-7 besides precision in setting it? I understand that it makes it easier to compare temps with users of other models or vapes, but beyond that, I don't see how it might affect the overall vapor quality.
p.s. still loving mine and have gone as far as 10 sessions now without running out of power, and still haven't hit the bottom.
I found with my last INH that I would get more sessions in summer vs winter (outside). I guess this can also be a variable since it makes a difference how much work the unit needs to do to heat up.
Anyone else have a # of sessions per charge to report yet? It would be appreciated if you could also include details on approx environment temp and if you let it cool down completely between sessions.
Thanks in advance,
hiphiphooray
Well-Known Member
@HerbalHealing, completely agree with you. I don't understand what all the fuss is about if its just a bigger temperature range... If you really want to vape at "lower settings," then just peel off the sticker and rotate it a bit 
@Sonics420, @Old School, are you guys wanting more than the current temperature dial offers? Is the max setting not enough? Because if the temperature range is really 125 to 250 degrees Celsius you will see no vaporization at lower temps all the way to combustion at the max temperature (with cannibis that is). Looking specifically at delta-9 THC and CBD, vaporization occurs at 157 and 180 respectfully (Celsius). So you should be expecting clouds about exactly halfway on the dial (187 degrees).
@Snake Plissken, Combustion occurs at temps around 450F and above. Thats equal to 232 C. That means combustion should only begin to occur if held at settings 9 and 10 for a long period of time (assuming that the XP temperature range is accurate).
If anyone is wondering how I got those exact temperatures:
Source http://www.cannabis-med.org/data/pdf/2001-03-04-7.pdf
@Sonics420, @Old School, are you guys wanting more than the current temperature dial offers? Is the max setting not enough? Because if the temperature range is really 125 to 250 degrees Celsius you will see no vaporization at lower temps all the way to combustion at the max temperature (with cannibis that is). Looking specifically at delta-9 THC and CBD, vaporization occurs at 157 and 180 respectfully (Celsius). So you should be expecting clouds about exactly halfway on the dial (187 degrees).
@Snake Plissken, Combustion occurs at temps around 450F and above. Thats equal to 232 C. That means combustion should only begin to occur if held at settings 9 and 10 for a long period of time (assuming that the XP temperature range is accurate).
If anyone is wondering how I got those exact temperatures:
Source http://www.cannabis-med.org/data/pdf/2001-03-04-7.pdf
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MusicalStuder
New Member
Curiousone
Well-Known Member
Thx for this clarification...helped me understand. SO just as capable as before...we "cloud chasers" just have to use a higher setting than previous models. I'm ok with that
I think this is THE portable to have!
Snake Plissken
Transcendentalist
Thanks inhalator. I also would like to see a temp breakdown of the units whose stickers run from 1 to 8.
Here is a good chart listing the temps at which different cannabinoids combust:
http://www.weedist.com/2012/07/tailoring-high-compounds-in-cannabis-properties-boiling-points/
There are beneficial cannabinoids that combust at as low as 52 degrees Celsius. THCV combusts at 220 Celsius. This is a good chart for those attempting to vape more healthily as it lists boiling points in descending order. For instance, I can tell from this chart that if I vape below 200 Celsius, I eliminate the uptake of several toxins/carcinogens that would be present at higher temps.
My point was that I felt that an effective vape should produce decent visible vapor at temps at least as low as 380 farenheit. (Sorry for switching units, but this Celsius conversion is giving me a headache) Obviously it would get cloudier at higher temps.
Here is a good chart listing the temps at which different cannabinoids combust:
http://www.weedist.com/2012/07/tailoring-high-compounds-in-cannabis-properties-boiling-points/
There are beneficial cannabinoids that combust at as low as 52 degrees Celsius. THCV combusts at 220 Celsius. This is a good chart for those attempting to vape more healthily as it lists boiling points in descending order. For instance, I can tell from this chart that if I vape below 200 Celsius, I eliminate the uptake of several toxins/carcinogens that would be present at higher temps.
My point was that I felt that an effective vape should produce decent visible vapor at temps at least as low as 380 farenheit. (Sorry for switching units, but this Celsius conversion is giving me a headache) Obviously it would get cloudier at higher temps.
Old School
Vape13man
I wonder did you notice the light behaves differently as well.....I know exactly what you mean because I had them side by side for a direct comparison......if it was just all about the temp then as we have all said....its just a location on a dial......I can tell you for sure it was more than just that......like Sonic said nice rich thick like velvet smooth it was........at 2 & 3...... a thing of beauty.......like he said below......"they already found the sweet spot" but I'm afraid they don't see it that way.....I blame it on the temp mishap and the better sensor location happened on the same run...therefore the temp issue is masking the importance of the sensor location......
I'm gonna throw something out there as I have seen the insides of my precious.....mind you I am no engineer just a small exercise in some common sense perhaps..all of which is based on testing and observing behavior......
if the sensor were further from the element...how might it react differently to a sensor that was much closer to the heating element....? Now imagine the user draws in much cooler air than what the element has provided for us currently.....lets see now the furthest from the heat source will naturally lose its temp quicker....so it will ask for the element to reheat sooner than say a sensor that is closer to the element......so in my simple minded way of thinking.....location can make a huge difference....
My Q2 which I loved.... would start blinking almost straight away {furthest} and possibly as a result the Q2 would get the jump on the reheat....which might just make it perform better and provide nice rich velvety smooth hits like my Q2 used to do......Clicker I believe still has a working Q2.....
It was the first thing I noticed about the replacement they 1st sent me.....I was whaling on that thing before the light finally began to blink......that's odd I thought........??..hmmmmm
So hear again with my simple minded way of thinking....but if closer to heat source...yes easier to maintain stability of temp......but at the sacrifice of vapor production......why ......well again simple they have effectively moved the sensor closer to the conduction there by abandoning the convection portion.....lamans terms....the air will be allowed to be colder so we have lessened our convection process......bummer....it is in the end all about the temp but just perhaps not in the way everyone is envisioning......there is more to this vape than what meets the eye......it is a very clever design indeed......
I so desperately want my Q2 back.....Oh an trust me I have asked if they could just even give me the original Q2 programing and I'm afraid that is no longer an option as they are now coming preconfigured and not adjustable after the fact....
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Snake Plissken
Transcendentalist
The biggest design flaw I saw w/ the ascent was the wide open draw, which cooled the bowl and made it tough to get as productive pulls as I would have liked. The ascent didn't heat the incoming air at all and the intake was right on top of the bowl. The result was blasting through material w/ about 1/2 of the expected benefits, having to 'cook' the material more than desired.
I'm not saying that this is the same scenario (especially w /the greater distance between the material and the intake), but it sounds like maybe the new sensor location in the xp is making this more of a conduction vape than anything? Sorry if I am oversimplifying. One of the main features that drew me to this vape was the convection/conduction combo action. It seems as if (with previous sensor location) they had solved the main issue I had w/ the ascent. I will wait for more reviews of the new units, but it sounds like the vape I am looking for is a q2.
I'm not saying that this is the same scenario (especially w /the greater distance between the material and the intake), but it sounds like maybe the new sensor location in the xp is making this more of a conduction vape than anything? Sorry if I am oversimplifying. One of the main features that drew me to this vape was the convection/conduction combo action. It seems as if (with previous sensor location) they had solved the main issue I had w/ the ascent. I will wait for more reviews of the new units, but it sounds like the vape I am looking for is a q2.
hiphiphooray
Well-Known Member
We just need inhalater to state whether or not they changed the location of the sensor and the result of it. Because right now I think all the speculation is scaring thread followers (well at least me for sure)
)
PPN
Volute of Vapor
Hi Inhalater I see that your are online now, just a question about my unit, I got it by KushParadise in june (beginning of the month) and I just want to know what batch is it and how do you calibrate it?
It still working hard everyday with everything that you put inside (not really but you understand me!)
It still working hard everyday with everything that you put inside (not really but you understand me!)
Sensor location is important because of temperature lagging. If the sensor is not directly on the heating element, temperature of the heating element strip will get significantly hotter than the recorded temperature at the sensor.
This creates large difference on the initial warm up then a gradual stabilisation as the whole system gathers heat. In such a manner the effective heat at the substrate get very hot at the beggining but comes down gradually. In the lab, the gradual decrease of temperature baffled us for quite some time.
The sweet spot on previous releases were not completely documented. Thus the ups and down with the temperature. We have complete understanding now and feel confident of the operation.
@PPN Your unit is Q2. Calibration is operated via the USB port. Temperature sensor is inserted in the heating chamber and is linked to a computer that operates referenciation with the microcontroller located inside the Inhalater unit. Calibration cannot be change by users.
This creates large difference on the initial warm up then a gradual stabilisation as the whole system gathers heat. In such a manner the effective heat at the substrate get very hot at the beggining but comes down gradually. In the lab, the gradual decrease of temperature baffled us for quite some time.
The sweet spot on previous releases were not completely documented. Thus the ups and down with the temperature. We have complete understanding now and feel confident of the operation.
@PPN Your unit is Q2. Calibration is operated via the USB port. Temperature sensor is inserted in the heating chamber and is linked to a computer that operates referenciation with the microcontroller located inside the Inhalater unit. Calibration cannot be change by users.
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CapitalFlower
Well-Known Member
Inhalater just stated that recalibration is not possible
Snake Plissken
Transcendentalist
ok. the sensor is directly on the heating element now. I am not an engineer and I must admit this makes no sense to me. I have never seen any heating application in which the sensor was on the element creating heat as opposed to some item being heated. If this was the case in my home heating system, wouldn't the system constantly be turning on and off once the element reached temperature regardless of the temp of all the surrounding areas the element was supposed to heat? Sounds like a lot of additional stress on the unit as well.
Is this the same element that is supposed to be heating the air, causing convection? Hard to imagine the temp of the element is the same as the temp of all that incoming air.
Isn't the temp of the material what is important here? Don't all heating elements become hotter than what they are trying to heat? If I want to raise the heat in my house to 80 degrees, am I going to be happy if the element gets to 80 and shuts off while my house is still only in the 60's?
I would think (as a total amateur) that we would be assessing the temp of the material/heating chamber, and the element (with all of the incoming cold air) would be substantially hotter to maintain that temp?
Again, not an engineer and I apologize for the simpleton analogies - but it sounds like you gained some control of the conduction aspect at the almost total loss of any convection?
No disrespect intended, and I appreciate inhalators presence and feedback. I am trying to understand the situation not detract from all of their hard work.
2clicker
Observer
wow it must be tough to be a MFR on this forum!
snake, you gotta put trust into INH and that they know what they are doing. yes a heating element must get hotter than the area/surface being heated. so if INH knows how hot the area/surface needs to be (and they do) then they no how hot the heating element needs to be. so the sensor could indeed be located on the element w/out issue.
snake, you gotta put trust into INH and that they know what they are doing. yes a heating element must get hotter than the area/surface being heated. so if INH knows how hot the area/surface needs to be (and they do) then they no how hot the heating element needs to be. so the sensor could indeed be located on the element w/out issue.
@PPN . You may always send your unit in when production is rolling for an affordable upgrade to the new technolgy.
@Snake. If you were sitting directly on the heating element of your house heater you maybe would want this heater not to overshoot too much ;-).
If you control average temperature you get overheated flash points at the heating element.
Anologies are very relevant : In the ideal world, no you would not want to overheat to get at the desired temperature. Water heating systems use large thermal mass to keep overheating lower and in effect create more comfort than electrical heaters with large overshoot. Radiant heating that spreads heat is another exemple where low or no overshoot creates better expected results.
By precisely controlling the hottest point and letting time work temperature into the substrate, we can have predictable results. Particular ly with sensitive substraties like tobacco; the overshoot of the heating element is critical. If a single point in the herb chamber gets overcooked you can taste it right away.
@Snake. If you were sitting directly on the heating element of your house heater you maybe would want this heater not to overshoot too much ;-).
If you control average temperature you get overheated flash points at the heating element.
Anologies are very relevant : In the ideal world, no you would not want to overheat to get at the desired temperature. Water heating systems use large thermal mass to keep overheating lower and in effect create more comfort than electrical heaters with large overshoot. Radiant heating that spreads heat is another exemple where low or no overshoot creates better expected results.
By precisely controlling the hottest point and letting time work temperature into the substrate, we can have predictable results. Particular ly with sensitive substraties like tobacco; the overshoot of the heating element is critical. If a single point in the herb chamber gets overcooked you can taste it right away.
Sonics420
Well-Known Member
I was just reading the ascent thread and thought this post can relate to the XP?
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/ascent-vaporizer-by-davinci.9885/page-111#post-459922
What do you think @Inhalater? Can the load be getting cooler than the temperature suggest, thus giving me wispy vapor? Before my XP blew every vape I owned out the water but now it seems mediocre.
edit
I havent got new herbs to try but I put some kief into there and still didnt get clouds like my older XP.
Also the sticker is already coming up from the bottom of the seam (just like the older xps)![:\](/i/s/hmm.gif "Hmm :\")
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/ascent-vaporizer-by-davinci.9885/page-111#post-459922
What do you think @Inhalater? Can the load be getting cooler than the temperature suggest, thus giving me wispy vapor? Before my XP blew every vape I owned out the water but now it seems mediocre.
edit
I havent got new herbs to try but I put some kief into there and still didnt get clouds like my older XP.
Also the sticker is already coming up from the bottom of the seam (just like the older xps)
Snake Plissken
Transcendentalist
If they had it too figured out, the sensor wouldn't be in a different location every version, would it? It would be more efficient each version, not less, right? When the results of the new location were given by sonics, it seems to me as if there is an issue. When the results of the new configuration are described as 'mediocre' and substandard to previous versions, I am not convinced blind trust and throwing down my $ at this time is the wisest course of action.
I can only speak for myself, but at this price range I have expectations. One of which being that what I am purchasing is as described.
Inhalater: thanks. I appreciate your input and am sure there is much that I am overlooking. I realize that this is an ongoing process and am just discouraged w/ the new changes.
When I read reviews of just how awesome the xp is, how it rips at as low as 2, produces great clouds, utilizes convection heating as well as conduction, quick heat up time, etc - I became extremely excited and wanted to own one. When I hear that with the new changes it has become a mediocre vape, producing wispy vapors - well, ........
Old School
Vape13man
Wooooo slow down there our fellow vaporist..... Although I too wish to convince the MFR to hear my pleas that they have drastically lessened this otherwise amazing "BEAST" of a vaporizer....I would still have to say even in its so called mediocre state....you will not be disappointed....as in the end when my replacement worked it was very noticeably less than my GF's still working at the time Q2 however I still chose it over my VB2.....it basically fit me better, size, ease of reload, cleaning...so better and still out performed my VB2 which is always gonna be the deciding factor......
So really if you are wanting a sweet ass portable......well my friend this is it........and listen.....you never had a Q2 so you won't really notice......
I doubt very seriously we have heard the last of this issue......
Still a top notch design.....not certain if it was accidental or intended but never the less a very clever design using a single element to both heat the material as well as the air entering the material....NICE..
Snake Plissken
Transcendentalist
Are you using the newest version? Are the reports of wispy hits untrue? Are you having a different experience?
I don't really care what the dial # says, just what temp it translates to. Inh has said 125-250 on an 8 digit dial w/ even distribution. That means +18 degrees per bump. at 6, that would be 214C (that is over 417F).
If this is the 1st place you get noticeable vapor (more than wispy) I don't consider that effective or on par w/ comparable products. Do you not feel that the vapor to air ratio should be higher at a lower temp?