Pen Imag Plus

[KeroZen]

@Gibarian : thank you for the device gutting.

Honnestly I'm already growing tired of playing the guinea pig for Chinese companies... You see amongst all the portables I own, we've collaboratively gutted the FM5, the Ascent, and recently the FM8 and the Herbstick Deluxe, and overall I'm not so pleased with what I saw...

What I really dislike is that in the end, it forces us all to become "materials safety experts". Before joining this forum, I never had to wonder if say brass contained lead, or if polyimide was really safe to chronically inhale etc. So we are all guessing... is it safe is it not? Most will answer "it looks safer than combustion", yeah maybe, but inhaling lead is also very dangerous...

Tried searching for polyimide safety, mostly found research done by the material makers themselves, like Dupont for the Kaptan you cite (where in reality we have no clue if they use the trademarked material or not just any other cheap polyimide tape) In the FM5 and FM8 I just know that the polyimide tape stinks, and it stinks more when you heat it... Is it safe? I dunno. But if it stinks it means there are volatile compounds escaping and reaching my nose and thus my lungs...

You know, your last sentence reminded me the end of that excellent movie called "Thank you for smoking". Don't know if you saw it? But the guy after quitting big tobacco ends up working for a cellphone consortium, and asserts with a similar sentence that "they pose no significant risk to the health" bla bla.

I think we are just guessing at best, and that worries me.

Take the "hot air coming from the electronics section" issue that we encounter in all the aforementionned portable vaporizers. I've read and been told multiple times that it's not a problem because I'm breathing air coming from my laptop fan right now... To which I answer that I'm not deeply inhaling that air on a chronic daily basis and "on purpose". Because well, even if it was safe, it stinks! Electronic circuits stinks, period. I can smell it and I don't want to inhale that.

Also are we sure they are using lead-free solder like they should? Because it's way harder to solder without lead, so it's tempting to use it...

But you see, the real question is "why does the average Joe has to get a master in materials safety to use these vapes?". Why are we asking these kinds of questions in the first place? Why in all these vapes don't they fucking isolate the air and vapor paths fully? It's beyond me! There's always an issue of some kind, excepted in my Firewood, and afaik in the Arizer vapes (there could be others that I'm not aware of so the list is non exhaustive)

It's the same for silicone. In the Ascent and some others, people complain that it reeks when new... but the maker tells us it's food-grade so it's safe... Someone posted a list of chemicals that are found to out-gas during silicone curing and it is just plain awful... So how do we know? It's safe when the new smell is gone? Where is it gone? You see, again questions we shouldn't have to ask ourselves..

PS: to conclude with a practical question, where is the air inlet in the Imag+2? The hole at the bottom of the bowl?

 

[Vapenic]

Start at the end Yes, the air enters through the holes on the bowl's bottom. And gets in on the sides of the device. Silicone being "food grade" is a category in place for silicone types to be used under "kitchen condiitons", baking, cooking, etc. Never had an "Ascent" to judge, but nothing reeks here, in fact I have tried to put the top ring inside the bowl, and heated up to see what happens - nothing happened, it has got hot, than cooled, keeping the exact same properties. Developing the "recipe" for these materials are results of long days of laboratory labour, where people will get challanged, if the customer is not happy for any reason. From an aspect of a company, an entire business can be demolished by a filed report from an independent, accredited laboratory, who proves the opposite, what the company states about their product. In the age of "Food Babe" and e-burocracy this is actually getting quite a good business, mainly, because people needs heros to follow, typically blindfolded, based on pure sympathy towards their chosen person. Easier, than learning about something themselves. I do not expect everyone to understand the chemical bond between molecules, to make a decision themselves, but I do disapprove non-factual conspiracy theorists blaming Big Pharma and Illuminati for the doom of our world. I am keeping my faith towards proved scientific facts, and I am sceptic with profit-orientated pseudoscience flagging everything with "organic","100% natural", "free-range", "bio" etc.. At the end of the day, it is still my own sole opinion, you should be able to make up your own mind in important questions, or stay safe in ignorance, and do not use a product you don't fully convinced about. Same reason of mine to disassemble things to pieces.
In the vapes you mention it is not the polyimide, what stinks, it is the adhesive (acrylic resin), which do react when heated too hot. Transforming to a gaseous state, this resin escapes where it can escape from. Where it is mechanically remain isolated, will not escape. Hence you do burn out sessions. It is that simple in my mind.
Reminds me of a conversation I had about Kanthal wires, where people were explaining the dangers of chromium oxide. Without understanding the process of oxidation.
Lead free solders are still alloys of other heavy metals, they have about 15 C° higher melting point, not significantly harder to work with, and purpose of regulating the use of lead in consumer electronics is to reduce pollution during recycling of electronic waste. You do not inhale lead from air coming off from a PCB. You do ingest lead from water coming through a lead pipe, without limescale layers being formed to prohibit water's exposure. You do inhale lead from ashes of incinerating e-waste, or vehicles exhaust from leaded fuel, as suspended particles. But not from a room temp pile of lead.
Though I am entirely convinced about my safety, I tend to admit your final thoughts about "average Joe".
This is actually something I am working on, since I started to vape. The "grand design". It would be much easier to explain, more convincing health-wise, for sure, and a better overall experience. What I am saying here, is that panic and paranoia in fact, are bad advisors. Good example of understanding what "synthetic" means, is all that it is not naturally occuring, and it takes a being's effort to be produced. Like aspirin extracted from willow bark, or THC created by a plant.. Honestly, I see the main problem as how you do your communication about these things. Ignorance is a big opponent and hard to beat.
I do conclude, that this Imag design is truly something what I use with great comfort outdoors, the applied technology resulting in a device with dimensions truly resembling a now commonly accepted shape of an e-cigarette, raising no attention at all, this is really the most important factor in my decision, but I also am truly happy with the entire design now. I also felt as a guinea pig for a good while, when tried these gadgets first, but done my research, and finally am convinced.

 

[olivianewtonjohn]

Start at the end Yes, the air enters through the holes on the bowl's bottom. And gets in on the sides of the device. Silicone being "food grade" is a category in place for silicone types to be used under "kitchen condiitons", baking, cooking, etc. Never had an "Ascent" to judge, but nothing reeks here, in fact I have tried to put the top ring inside the bowl, and heated up to see what happens - nothing happened, it has got hot, than cooled, keeping the exact same properties. Developing the "recipe" for these materials are results of long days of laboratory labour, where people will get challanged, if the customer is not happy for any reason. From an aspect of a company, an entire business can be demolished by a filed report from an independent, accredited laboratory, who proves the opposite, what the company states about their product. In the age of "Food Babe" and e-burocracy this is actually getting quite a good business, mainly, because people needs heros to follow, typically blindfolded, based on pure sympathy towards their chosen person. Easier, than learning about something themselves. I do not expect everyone to understand the chemical bond between molecules, to make a decision themselves, but I do disapprove non-factual conspiracy theorists blaming Big Pharma and Illuminati for the doom of our world. I am keeping my faith towards proved scientific facts, and I am sceptic with profit-orientated pseudoscience flagging everything with "organic","100% natural", "free-range", "bio" etc.. At the end of the day, it is still my own sole opinion, you should be able to make up your own mind in important questions, or stay safe in ignorance, and do not use a product you don't fully convinced about. Same reason of mine to disassemble things to pieces.
In the vapes you mention it is not the polyimide, what stinks, it is the adhesive (acrylic resin), which do react when heated too hot. Transforming to a gaseous state, this resin escapes where it can escape from. Where it is mechanically remain isolated, will not escape. Hence you do burn out sessions. It is that simple in my mind.
Reminds me of a conversation I had about Kanthal wires, where people were explaining the dangers of chromium oxide. Without understanding the process of oxidation.
Lead free solders are still alloys of other heavy metals, they have about 15 C° higher melting point, not significantly harder to work with, and purpose of regulating the use of lead in consumer electronics is to reduce pollution during recycling of electronic waste. You do not inhale lead from air coming off from a PCB. You do ingest lead from water coming through a lead pipe, without limescale layers being formed to prohibit water's exposure. You do inhale lead from ashes of incinerating e-waste, or vehicles exhaust from leaded fuel, as suspended particles. But not from a room temp pile of lead.
Though I am entirely convinced about my safety, I tend to admit your final thoughts about "average Joe".
This is actually something I am working on, since I started to vape. The "grand design". It would be much easier to explain, more convincing health-wise, for sure, and a better overall experience. What I am saying here, is that panic and paranoia in fact, are bad advisors. Good example of understanding what "synthetic" means, is all that it is not naturally occuring, and it takes a being's effort to be produced. Like aspirin extracted from willow bark, or THC created by a plant.. Honestly, I see the main problem as how you do your communication about these things. Ignorance is a big opponent and hard to beat.
I do conclude, that this Imag design is truly something what I use with great comfort outdoors, the applied technology resulting in a device with dimensions truly resembling a now commonly accepted shape of an e-cigarette, raising no attention at all, this is really the most important factor in my decision, but I also am truly happy with the entire design now. I also felt as a guinea pig for a good while, when tried these gadgets first, but done my research, and finally am convinced.

Thank you for bringing your knowledge to the thread. I think you make alot of logical points but two things I think you are not appreciating from @KeroZen point. Yes if a company made something unhealthy they could be sued. But we are talking about a small market. Not only that but a chinese company. It would be one thing if it was a chinese company making products for GE found in every walmart. So the skepticism and caution is reasonable.

A second much more important aspect I think you are neglecting is, isnt it possible to make a product that does not make people drop dead yet is unhealthy over the long haul? Seems this would be alot harder to prove or understand.

Also while there are qualified people in the laboratory they do not necessarily make all of the decisions. Safety can be sacrificed to a point if it makes the company more $. If the product causes serious illness obviously related to the product then sure it will cost the company money.

I agree with everything else. Your point by point analysis of the safety of materials is very much appreciative.

 

[stark1]

I must be having a nitemare!

While I am reeling from feeling I just blundered into a lecture hall where a point to point analysis of the pros and cons of certain materials science is being propounded, I just want a slim heater to make me & my Mary hapi

got nose gawd knows

 

[Vapenic]

Thanks for kind words, I completely agree. I've never denied the possible hidden or undocumented dangers of such "extreme" practice as sucking on a mini electric owen What I emphasize -and do not want to underrate in the same time- is the amount of worry you put in this.

I just want a slim heater

haha stark1, that is actually all I was saying

 

[KeroZen]

...the amount of worry you put in this

Well this is FC, we use vaporizers because it's supposedly healthier than combustion. What did you expect? Of course we do worry whether it's really safe or not.

If you think this device is completely safe that doesn't mean they all are, we saw a lot of Chinese crap tested on this forum. And in all cases, you won't convince me that it's cool to have air coming from the electronics, especially when it's perfectly possible to avoid it.

You are missing my point, safety is one thing, but as I said I'm sensitive to smells. I can smell hot air coming from a PCB and solders and it smells like shit, period.

 

[Vapenic]

Well this is FC, we use vaporizers because it's supposedly healthier than combustion. What did you expect? Of course we do worry whether it's really safe or not.

Don't you think I'm worried enough? Just ripped the fuckin' thing apart

 

[stark1]

I have never tasted shit....

 

[KeroZen]

Damn you @stark1, you didn't let me enough time to correct my post!

 

[Vapenic]

hot air coming from a PCB and solders and it smells like shit, period.

You also missing my point, no hot air goes through around PCB Thats exactly the point in total insulation enclosure! The typical smell is epoxy which holds the glass fibre together hahha, yum

 

[HillaryClinton]

KeroZen the Imag Plus didn't give me any bad smell or taste, I am getting another HerbStick Deluxe in the mail(Shipping out now). If there is no air coming from the usb I am to assume its a clear air path, the silicone inside it slightly odd but apparently easy to remove, I might, might not, silicone never frightened me I guess...

 

[stark1]

Does anyone know how to track Ray's dispatch?

WLTK if it's going to be delivered before the blizzard hits Massachusetts Tuesday.....

 

[HillaryClinton]

Does anyone know how to track Ray's dispatch?

WLTK if it's going to be delivered before the blizzard hits Massachusetts Tuesday.....

I was given a DHL tracking number.

 

[olivianewtonjohn]

I was given a DHL tracking number.

Me too. Mine already departed from Hong Kong!

 

[stark1]

Thanks for the info, had to do some loops, but seems mine was still in situ @ 3PM HK time.

 

[Mr. Gweilo 420]

Thanks for the info, had to do some loops, but seems mine was still in situ @ 3PM HK time.

its only 1.55pm Hong Kong time now I didnt get a tracking number. Hoping mine is waiting for me when I get home.

 

[stark1]

its only 1.55pm Hong Kong time now I didnt get a tracking number. Hoping mine is waiting for me when I get home.

You are basically on home plate, so it should be there ASAP.

OTOH, my experience is that sometimes it takes longer for snail mail to get from the next town, than for it to get from one coast to the other. YMMV.

In the end, all is good.

PS my waybill # for DHL states departure from HK Facility Monday 14:40, bound for Hartford, Ct (via USPS, in a Cali sort facility, I presume).

Update. In Cincy this morn (in the 1854 poem Catawba Wine Henry Wadsworth Longfellow wrote of the city: "And this Song of the Vine, This greeting of mine, The winds and the birds shall deliver, To the Queen of the West, In her garlands dressed, On the banks of the Beautiful River.") .
Then on to Springfield, Ma, or Hartford, Ct! I yam stroked! it's A PLUS!

 

[Mr. Gweilo 420]

Still nothing, maybe tmrw

 

[PPN]

I don't receive any tracking too....but they told me they planned to sent me a black version....

 

[stark1]

I don't receive any tracking too....but they told me they planned to sent me a black version....

You have to go thru some hoops:

Where it says DHL, copy the waybill #.
Then open up DHL.com on your browser, insert the waybill #, and WALLA!

AFT "black" version, I think it is a stock letter for everyone, bet everyone gets a black carbon fiber.
I like the woody, it would go well with the olde surfside Woodies of old.

Surf's up!

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

Mine it is here... First impressions.. packaging smells like robot ass... Moutpiece looks cheap.. compared to the beautiful body.. pattern is just amazing.. Blah.. plastic in the chamber... Under it silicon that reaks worst than flowermates moutpiece... I am highly conserned breathing trough it with that stuff around it.. i will ask if it can be removed for cleaning.. cause it spoils the experience even before using it... Chamber material looks strange ,cant tell if it is ceramic or some kind of PTFE .. but i guess it is ceramic as it says..
I will have to clean mine very well before using it.. X-max 2 is better out of the box IMO. will see if this one will outperforms it. Also can see a led at the bottom.. i guess airpath is no more different that x-max 2 with difference that with x-max there is no such smell..
Gave an isowipe to everything, and loaded up.. taste was somewhat good for two hits than i began to taste the silicon and added some tubing and ran trough my water pipe ,not much vapor, switched on green waited a bit ,started feeling the bubbler with thin vapor then it autoshutoff, switch too red , few nice milky hits but it is not powerful enought to keep with my draw, and vapor productions stops/decreases a lot after 5-6 seconds of inhalation. ABV came nice color. taste at the end was so bad i had to wash my bubbler... I guess i will have to give it few more burn offs,, cause ,i think i got a bit of a headache which i think is related to what i inhaled ,yuck... never hitting again a vape without giving it at least 10 burn offs cause 3 werent enough..

 

[KeroZen]

Well I'm happy to be not alone raising questions about all these robot fart smells... and once again it's the proof we all have very different taste buds... Some users report absolutely no off-smell while for others it's almost headache inducing (note: I'm not talking about this vape in particular but all the recent wave of Chinese vapes we've been testing on FC)

In the second FM8 sample I received, they put tobacco inside to test it at the factory and the smell was so strong it covered other materials. After having dismantled it and cleaned from the inside now I'm able to really smell the device itself.

Never trust tobacco smokers! (sorry @Gibarian that was too tempting, don't take offense!)

 

[Ital meditation]

Man, anybody know if you can replace that silicone mouthpiece with a ss screen like you can with the FM? Hopefully that may help with the smell and make the draw less restrictive?

 

[CidKudi]

Just got mine in today. Got the text saying it was delivered so I ran home during lunch to do some burn offs and start the initial charge. Didn't spend too much time with it yet so more info forthcoming. Right off the bat I can confirm the "robot fart" odor. Haha I didn't quite understand what that would smell like until I smelt it. I don't know if it maybe has something to do with them testing them with tobacco before shipping? I recall either Meach or Hillary saying they saw tobacco remnants in their unit during the first round of testing. When I purchased the original Imag Plus and did the burn offs, there was no odor. That's all I've had time to observe so far! But of course I had to snap a couple pics of the new carbon fibre. IMO it looks and feels superior to the previous model (also has more weight to it). I love the gold ring at the top.

 

[Meakii]

Has anybody seen or viewed pictures of the unit with copper tube?