I am looking to design a new vaporizer. But before I start planning

[BarnBoy]

Very ambitious desirements you have there @herbivore21! Not sure I would want to bother with butane. I do understand the potential energy per volume aspect, but have had so many lighters die on me. Also the controls are quite different for gas versus cartridge heater, but the micros these days are pretty damn good. So I suspect you will want an electronic ignition for the gas control? Something to think about; butane reservoirs will probably get spotted and yanked in a TSA check at the airport…

Not sure how many temp zones you want, but my 2 cents would be a continuous adjustment. Easiest to implement would be a simple quadrature dial volume like control. Most of these types of controls have push buttons included to make a simple push and knob interface. A display that could do both C & F temperatures.

If you have an electrical interface (charger or battery pack) just make sure the interface can deal with the current and being able to be mishandled. And the wires not so small they have large voltage drops. The magnetic interface mentioned sounds like a winner; Apple Computer like…

Lights? Not so sure I like having a lot of illumination in my car when ripping and driving at night. Then again I often can’t see them in the sun.

I would include some kind of idiot timeout feature. Even though the PNP sometimes quits right at the best point of the session, I have often walked away from it.

I like the bullet concept, but maybe enclosing them into a capsule. I have seen things that look like tea balls. This is great for herbs, but what about waxes and oils? I have not had any luck with my FMJ. But I haven’t tried it since the Epic Adjust-A-Bowl GonG and the air-tight seal.

I have friends that like balloons. So maybe an accessory that could fill them?

Just speaking out loud. Sorry you had to give up on your PNP…
-BB

 

[Frederick McGuire]

Just something I've thought could be a cool element if a vape design that I haven't been able to actually think of how to make it work:

The air path from intake to herb to user should be as clean a possible - ie nothing but heat and air going through the air path, so the electronics, heater, everything is outside the air path (a few of my favorite vapes fail this test, but we're talking The Lord of the vapes here )

That's not the idea, just the premise the idea is based on...

So here's the idea:

The main vape is made out of something inert but extremely durable (I haven't done enough research, but I'm thinking Ti or SS).
Something nigh on unbreakable for our more clumsy moments.

But then, a glass insert is available that can be inserted into the air path, that will essentially eliminate that material from the air path making the air path 100% glass.

Like imagine a steel tube, heated externally.
The inside of that tube is your air path.
In this "standard mode" the only thing going through the tube is external air, getting heated up to vape temps.

Then you get a slightly smaller diameter glass tube and insert it into the steel tube.

Now the steel tube becomes the external heater for the glass tube, and the glad tube is the air path, with air only flowing through the glass tube.

May not make much sense, but damn it'd be cool if something like that existed.

 

[Grim Chiclets]

Interesting, and DAMN close to what I've come up with.
It's basically a modular 5-6 piece design that's based around everything coming together like the volcano, with a standard bowl/herb chamber where you just connect and do a quarter-turn. The way I've designed all the parts in my head, you can run the heating chamber off butane, 18650 Battery, or an outlet by switching up the power/heating attachment
And I've drawn up multiple mouthpiece adapters and such made for whips and/or gongs

If mass produced I can see this thing costing around, or slightly more than $200

If I can come up with some less shitty drawings, I'll throw it up here haha

 

[herbivore21]

Wow, so much info whilst I've been writing a huge research proposal for my job.

Cheers guys!

Magnetic power cord a la new Macbooks/Microsoft Surface are definitely a winner, I had been thinking of modding my E-Nano to feature this right after I got my Surface Pro 2 recently. I think we are all in agreement that this is too cool not to use!

@BarnBoy continuous adjustment such as you describe would be achievable using a simple variable resistor/dimmer type setup? This is definitely what I had in mind, it works beautifully on my E-Nano. Also, capsule type plant material loading would be ideal. That is the one feature of the PNP that I thought was particularly brilliant! With regard to the PNP, it just didn't have the pulling power I need. I have a very high tolerance, very high usage and need to be able to suck through bowl after bowl in one or two hits for both appetite stimulant purposes and to induce sleep/reduce anxiety. The PNP would be great for other more moderate users for sure! But back on topic:

I am thinking of maybe getting a small LED screen and using software to create a very basic user interface to allow the vape to tell the time, turn backlight on/off, tell temperature reading and maybe even work in some wifi connectivity and allow this to be the worlds first smart-vape! Turning on your vape over the internet before you get home sounds too nice not to have! I have 14 years of workplace experience in IT software/hardware and this will be the part of the job I am most at home with!

Time out feature on battery makes sense. I think the battery modules will contain the electronics for the time-out feature, whereas in plug-in mode on AC power, the unit will not time out. I want people to be able to use this 24/7 when plugged in! Yes, I am one of those people who likes to be able to vape non-stop all day!

Celsius and Farenheit readings for temperature are also a no-brainer, we want everyone to be able to know what temp they are using, without looking at a unit conversion website every time they change settings for the first few weeks!

I am also on board about electronics being out of the air path. However, a sensor must be placed somewhere in the vapor path if we are to get the simplest route to accurate temperature reading. Unless of course, one of my physics friends can work out some way to determine the temperature of the air inside the unit using the temperature of the back of the heater out of the vapor path and the properties of the inside of the air path. This may actually be possible.

Regardless, I will be looking thoroughly into this and enlisting some scientist colleagues at the university where I work to find a way to ensure that this sensor will only be used in a way that is safe to be in the air path. I believe a high heat silicon coating for the wire leading to the sensor with a additional coating of hxtal resin around the outside (which dries looking like glass and is heat proof to unknown high temps) would do the trick. However, this is not the only idea I have in mind.

@Grim Chiclets sounds like you know exactly the kinda thing I'm talking about now!

@Frederick McGuire Titanium is definitely the material I am looking at for outer construction. I have a budbomb titanium smokeless pipe and the thing has withstood serious punishment. It also does not get so hot as other metals and would require less insulation to be used. I want this thing to be as tough as it can be, thick cables, strong terminals with enough slack on all wiring so as not to be able to break the termination as a result of force from even a serious drop.

I hope I addressed all of the great ideas here thus far, I am having to take my time coming back and forth with all this science going on up in here!

 

[Hippie Dickie]

However, a sensor must be placed somewhere in the vapor path if we are to get the simplest route to accurate temperature reading.

i place the sensor outside the vapor path -- and i found the temperature in the middle of the herb reaches the temp measured by the sensor within the first 5 seconds of the inhale - there is a fairly short vapor path.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Herbivore21,

Magnetic power cord... I think we are all in agreement...

It depends. If there must be magnetic power then why not just deliver it directly into the core of some heat-exchanger? E.G. without wiring stuff, sealing joints and whatnot... Not to mention there would be a lesser conversion loss with Induction Heating, i presume.

 

[Grim Chiclets]

Salutations Herbivore21,



It depends. If there must be magnetic power then why not just deliver it directly into the core of some heat-exchanger? E.G. without wiring stuff, sealing joints and whatnot... Not to mention the lesser conversion loss.

Clever thought... I had thought of designing a slick induction style Ti ENail setup the other day, but thinking about doing that with a log?

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Grim Chiclets,

...a slick induction style Ti ENail setup...

Hummm... Have you been posting in a thread titled "induction nail heating" (on TokeCity) recently?

 

[Trifectic]

I'd like too see more "portable" home units such as the minivap a big heavy hitter with a long battery life but not bound to a cord!

 

[Grim Chiclets]

Salutations Grim Chiclets,



Hummm... Have you been posting in a thread titled "induction nail heating" (on TokeCity) recently?

This is the only forum I'm a part of

 

[Egzoset]

Hi again Grim Chiclets,

...the only forum...

My mistake, never mind. It was only an impression.

 

[herbivore21]

i place the sensor outside the vapor path -- and i found the temperature in the middle of the herb reaches the temp measured by the sensor within the first 5 seconds of the inhale - there is a fairly short vapor path.

It may be my background in science, but I have a real anal streak (deliberate double-entendre) about making sure anything that provides measurements provides the most relevant and accurate measure possible. I want the temperature reading on the front of the device to tell you the temperature of the air in the vapor path at the time! I am aware I may be Ahab with a white whale on this one, and this is not set in stone. As I said, physical calculations can (and if I stay away from sensor in vapor path, will) be made to determine this temperature from outside the actual path.

I am also considering induction for a number of purposes, but am not confident enough with my grasp of the tech yet to talk about how I might implement it. I don't want to be blowing smoke (dueling meanings again!) up you guys telling you that I am gonna use something I don't yet grasp enough to even know if I can implement!

In my experience, vape manufacturers have only pissed me off when they have appeared clearly out of their depth with their comments on a given topic, whilst maintaining an air of 'we know more than you because we are the manufacturer'. I want to make sure I am as frank will all of you as possible when there is something that is beyond my knowledge as of yet

 

[lazylathe]

Here is a good link to induction heaters, this one comes as a kit.
Good bit of information too.

http://www.rmcybernetics.com/projects/DIY_Devices/diy-induction-heater.htm

 

[herbivore21]

A million thankyous for the link!

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Herbivore21,

I want the temperature reading on the front of the device to tell you the temperature of the air in the vapor path at the time!

Using the Curie effect you wouldn't even need a temperature sensor - much less a display, etc.

...not confident enough with my grasp of the tech yet to talk about how I might implement it.

Using off-the-shelf ready-made commercially available products there's not even a need to implement Induction Heating yourself. A few years ago my 1300 Watts IH plate only cost me a hundred bucks at Sears, as i recall a metal disc the size of a CD-ROM would become hot-red in a matter of seconds.

...vape manufacturers have only pissed me off when...

I believe episodic holier-than-you attitudes appear to be a side-effect of forum media itself. In any case there's an even more critical issue when a device gets discussed over a few hundred pages and nobody will object about some obscure requirement for customers to ventilate electronics through their own lungs...







ADDENDUM



For a sample of my previous posts on IH:

Google Search: Egzoset "Induction Heating" IH site:fuckcombustion.com​

 

[misanthrope]

Finally, I will be fastidiously going over MSDS's to ensure that all materials used are 100% safe for the application at hand. There will be no melting plastic. There will be no taste-imparting synthetic materials. The unit will be built to be sturdy enough to take the occasional drop that a vaked user might reasonably expect to occur during use/cleaning. The unit will be built with safety in mind, especially with regard to heat of parts that are handled ordinarily during use.

This was my favorite paragraph, this is exactly what I would have asked for, possibly the most important paragraph for me.

I salute your noble venture and believe that if it lives up to the original vision it will probably bring you success and satisfaction beyond your wildest dreams, not to mention great joy to thousands of Vapers.

I've only owned a few vapes, but I know what I like. All I would add is:

I like whip vaping for the convenience, but is there anything else we could make the whip out of?

Has anyone thought of having a little light up window above the herb chamber - but the window is a magnification window, with one of those lenses people use to inspect bud?

With this magical, magnification window, vapers would be able to track the progress of the vaping by SEEING the trichomes and stuff. You friend could look in that little window while you're vaping, and observe the process in action. It would also give people the chance to check for contaminants in prohibition places where users may be unsure of their source.

Also featuring "Auto-stir" - it's a dream that I hope one day, can become a reality!!

 

[Caligula]

A built in roasting tube would be ideal me thinks.

 

[FlyingLow]

"Auto-stir" Nice concept!
I could envision one rigging a 360* micro servo to a lid, and putting a stirring stick into one of the holes on the servo arm

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/180896069877?lpid=82

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations FlyingLow,

"Auto-stir"...

Nah, some ultrasonic shake should do the trick!

Caution: May fail to be compatible with environments where dogs are present - not to mention cop dogs as in public transportation transit, etc!...

 

[herbivore21]

Wow, a new DIY section!

Well, I am waiting for my glassblower/metalworker/woodworker friend to start university holidays and we are going to design our first prototype. Let me just say, a lot has happened since I first spoke to you guys, and some very interesting new ideas are being toyed with here! Something that has not been done before to my knowledge! Stay tuned

Also, guess who's more confident with induction tech now???

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Herbivore21,

...guess who's more confident with induction tech now???

Beware as Induction Heating (IH) alone only offers efficient power conversion though this feature comes at the cost of additional circuitry, E.G. on top of the rest... So i sincerely fail to be seduced by any IH concept which calls for an increased level of complexity, IMHO, no matter the glowing-hot metal shows in video as this is no proof-of-concept by itself, because i don't even think it's viable on the long run when there's a much simpler solution waiting, provided the right choices can be made: gamble on the Curie effect or leave that to the masses excited by incandescent metal (but still never gather the implications nonetheless)!

Here's what IH vaporisation tastes like so far, expressed using 1 single word - combustion:

FC: Loto Labs Evoke (2014-Jun-16)​

Well, lets be fair. It will combust only until the problem of temperature control is eventually explored and solved...

 

[herbivore21]

Egzoset, I have overcome this issue of temperature control with my induction setup for my oil creations. Low temperatures can be maintained effectively, low enough to evap solvents in a matter of 1-2 hours and still provide guaranteed shatter - in other words, far lower than required to vaporize flowers without combusting.

However, as a scientist, and not just and engineer, I understand the benefits of parsimony. I will be aiming for the simplest design possible, and already have a few ideas for heater concepts that have not as of yet been tried.

My goals are energy efficiency, stable heat delivery, ability to put up with heavy inhales without loss of heat. Watch this space, my engineer and I will have a serious 3d printer to design a prototype very soon

Again, nobody stress, the product will only ever be finally released in a form which uses vape safe materials

 

[Egzoset]

Hi again Herbivore21,

Egzoset, I have overcome this issue... Low temperatures can be maintained effectively... ...far lower than required to vaporize flowers without combusting.

That would be good enough news then, since you seem to garantee no combustion can ever occur in your given configuration. Which is the purpose of a vaporizer, to prevent combustion. I guess the Evoke team wasn't lucky...

I will be aiming for the simplest design possible, and already have a few ideas for heater concepts that have not as of yet been tried.

Well, i'm curious to see how minimalistic it can get. Though, maybe with a manual override feature for those bad days when a brain chip chooses to go berzerk. Heat cycles could still be stolen to provide additional control, eventually, etc...

My goals are energy efficiency... ...in a form which uses vape safe materials...

As long as i'm not required to give it CPR!

That's the English expression, right? I mean, when one assists the ventilation of another living being, euh...

CPR, for robots. That would be awful... Correct?

 

[herbivore21]

Hi again Herbivore21,



That would be good enough news then, since you seem to garantee no combustion can ever occur in your given configuration. Which is the purpose of a vaporizer, to prevent combustion. I guess the Evoke team wasn't lucky...



Well, i'm curious to see how minimalistic it can get. Though, maybe with a manual override feature for those bad days when a brain chip chooses to go berzerk. Heat cycles could still be stolen to provide additional control, eventually, etc...



As long as i'm not required to give it CPR!

That's the English expression, right? I mean, when one assists the ventilation of another living being, euh...

CPR, for robots. That would be awful... Correct?

Lol, for you my friend, I will include personal CPR service in the event of a slightly-too-enthusiastic inhale

I like the manual override idea, sometimes we just want clouds - battery be damned!

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Herbivore21,

Lol...

Too much noise. Is that a "yes we'll need to breath through electronics hardware"...

...or "no, the inlet/cannabic/venting paths will be contained separately"?...

I like the manual override idea...

Since we have no schematics then lets imagine some autonomous ("Master") black box driving the IH coil at full regime, except there's an option to skip heat cycles and this signal is routed through a simple jumper the owner can remove on site, to disable the "brain" in case of a disfunction in the HAL-9000 style...

Ya know, when Dave Bowman starts pulling chips...

Ah, and only 1 "Electronic Jumper" will do just fine, please!...

During manual override the user would assume control while having the "intelligent" circuitry beyond an hypothetic emergency jumper suggest this could be turned into a "DeLuxe" offer, actually. So, i'd say have fun developping basics that conform to the KISS principle then build the clever services around it... So, the brain chip can still do its magic after all!







ADDENDUM:



How about simply refering to the "Synchronuous Heat-Cycle Skip-Request Manual Override/Emergency Jumper" as "The Key" and it shall be the focus center of a promotional event where 2 versions exist: Standard or Deluxe.

Standard units would come with "The Key" uninstalled - but always included in each package. Then "superior" functions would be a user-installed feature although there would only be 1 circuit-board version with all areas properly "stuffed"... Deluxe would be granted for a slight supplement, which include the privilege to receive a unit with "The Key" already in place. I'm not sure what the other participant privileges could be but i figure a Wall of Fame could do fine. Etc... You get the picture. Nothing is really lost, only gains seem possible!

Who knows, maybe Gold Keys might even work better!...