How do you define health?

[OO]

I'm curious, it seems as if the different members of this forum have disagreements over what is healthy for them. I believe this comes down to differing definitions of "health" and "healthy".

I think a discussion about this will lead to increased thought on the topic.

I define health as well being in a specific sense. meaning physical well being, as in if you are worse off one day from the previous day, your health has decreased.

With this I will pose this point, I believe that the topic of whether vaping is better for your health than smoking is debatable.

some evidence to take into account is the lack of people who have health worse when they smoke than when they don't. there is a great absence of these individuals.
I'm not going to deny the possibility that combusted materials can stress one's system, but most people have healthy enough lungs to remove these smoke particulates from the lungs. yay boogers.

so unlike tobacco smokers, there is a great absence of cannabis smokers who have tar buildup in the lungs, this is not due to there being a lack of tar in cannabis smoke. it is due to the satiation characteristics of cannabis vs those of tobacco. you get satiated quickly with cannabis, with tobacco that is less so, and can lead to buildup of tar in the lungs. this buildup is not witnessed in cannabis smokers with lungs capable of removing buildup.


the problems with vaping are evidenced by those who complain about vaping hurting more than smoking. there do exist a large number of these people, and for good reason.
it is my theory that the vapor produced under certain circumstances has a greater capacity to transfer heat to the lung tissue than smoke under certain circumstances.

if the circumstances for transferring larger amounts of heat to lung tissue are met, i do believe that vaping can be more harmful than smoking.

it really comes down to the circumstances, there are no absolutes!

my opinion is easily swayed by irrefutable evidence, so don't be afraid to point out obvious missed points.

 

[djonkoman]

personally I don't vape for my health. I vape because I like the high better, the taste but also the experience/road

but for me it would mean if I notice anything that restricts me, like shortness of breath. and I hafe noticed that often after a combustionbinge(night with friends) my throat feels dry/hurts the next morning
else when I once during a 1 or 2 week period partook more in the joints of a particular friend, who got tobacco that wasn't as harsh and nasty as other tobacco(almost all my friends smoke mixed joints), I began getting a little smokerscough now and then, and more often a hurt throat, also during the day sometimes
so that's a reason for me to never go on such a combustion-with-tobacco-sprea for that long again. I've never been a big combuster tough, before discovering vaping I only smoked once or at most twice a week(+some special ocassions), after getting a vaporizer that changed to daily within 2 weeks
was mostly because I did like the effect, but was prone to falling asleep from it so I never could finish watching a movie since I would fall asleep halfway
and I've also only had a few drags of cigs in my life, first time to try(right after my first joint), later times because friends tricked me by saying it was a joint. I mostly remember one time when I was handed a cig, not even a selfrolled one but one from a pack with filter and everything, and somehow I was so high I didn't notice, put it on my lips and thought it felt weird on my lips, then hit it and tasted the nasty stale tobacco taste. (in my defense, it was my birthday and we had been sitting around a campfire smoking all night and I had been hitting a bong for a while not long before)

 

[Hippie Dickie]

i can vape ... i can not smoke.

 

[Frederick McGuire]

My observations seem to be the opposite of yours OO.
All I seem to see here is new vaporists saying how much better their lungs feel since stopping combusting.
Of the people who still/prefer combustion, it seems to be about the high and not the health effects.
There is also the fact that vaping releases less carcinogens/nasty chemicals

Also, my lungs and I dont get along very well if there is any combustion occurring.
1 cone, and I feel like crap for a day or so.

 

[jdee]

I started vaping because smoking was causing too much physical discomfort, which btw is how I would define 'health' (the absense of physical discomfort)

Yes breathing in heated air is going to cause dry throat, which is where glass tools come in.

 

[sessnet]

After 1 bowl from the Solo (on 2 at that) - my lungs are pretty much spent, and I am short of breath. Why?

However, I could smoke huge, insane, "that guy", bong hits, or many blunts, back to back.

Add to all of this - I have had asthma - and know the feeling of breath shortness pretty well :/

I don't think it's all mental...

So for me, I don't think vaping is healthy, since I don't feel much better afterwards (lungwise). It's a physical sympton. However, I FEEL healthier because I know I am not inhaling ash and a ton of other stuff I shouldn't be inhaling.

This pretty much is the opposite of what everyone else has said so far

I have invested in some glass/water filtration, and hoping that helps me a bit.

 

[smokum]

I'm on the same search sessnet.... I find vapor very dry in comparison to combustion, and I still smoke cigs regularly. I am at the point now of finding just the right sized piece that still gives me the slight resistance the Solo does, but with water filtration.

Although, I'm also pretty confident that it may be just the direct lung hitting you do with vaping (bongs were never my choice previous with combustion).

 

[djonkoman]

it could well be that smoke is more moist since water is one of the products of combustion.
what I notice when I'm having a cold, is that vaping does hurt my throat on the short term, while combustion feels better at first, but an hour later my throat will feel very dry and hurt after combustion while with vaping it never gets worse as the initial irritation/dryness wich is worth the relieve of headache and other sickness symptoms

 

[Nycdeisel]

Solution^ = vaporbong

 

[Egzoset]

Hi,

As long as cannabis won't get the same treatment as alcohol the whole issue of cannabis vs health will only serve the purpose of those who wish to hold recreational users in prisons. The need to be a medicinal cannabis consumer armed with a license delivered by a government in order to have peace of mind is the signal anti-cannabic wariors need to justify their own violent actions.

So, it's that simple to me: because of so-called health considerations there are persons who are victimized on both sides for some ideological reasons. The attempt to control medicinal vs recreational use turns suffering people into a symbolic class of legitimate cannabis consumers, which by definition implies that the rest are not legitimate and hence should be chased as criminals by hateful authorities.

I understand all too well that sick people who desperately need relief have no choice but to become part of this twisted system, their alternative being to become victims twice... And why? Because decades ago our supposedly developped & free countries signed a piece of trash based on misconceptions, lies and bigotry.

 

[vorrange]

I think we should make a distinction between joint smokers and cannabis smokers, since it has been documented in several studies that the most harm comes from tobacco.

That said, you cannot exclude the byproducts of combustion and the formation of tar and other carcinogenic substances.

For me, since i had a joint smoking habit, my health has improved significantly and i much rather prefer the vape high, as well as the taste and the smell. I just feel more connected to the herb, like more in touch with nature. (i know this sounds new-agey but it is how i feel.)

So, i think there is not much discussion regarding joint combusting and vaping.

The real health discussion, if there is still one, is between herb combusting vs vaping.

Like NycDiesel said, there is always vaporbonging to adress the throat issues and others related to hot vapor irritating the lungs. IMO, you cannot adress this problem as efficiently with combusting because there are other harmful substances that do not get filtrated with vaporbonging.

 

[OO]

After 1 bowl from the Solo (on 2 at that) - my lungs are pretty much spent, and I am short of breath. Why?

However, I could smoke huge, insane, "that guy", bong hits, or many blunts, back to back.

Add to all of this - I have had asthma - and know the feeling of breath shortness pretty well :/

I don't think it's all mental...

So for me, I don't think vaping is healthy, since I don't feel much better afterwards (lungwise). It's a physical sympton. However, I FEEL healthier because I know I am not inhaling ash and a ton of other stuff I shouldn't be inhaling.

This pretty much is the opposite of what everyone else has said so far

I have invested in some glass/water filtration, and hoping that helps me a bit.

the discomfort you experience with your vape has more to do with path length than anything else, if your vapor has to travel down a longer path, it will hurt less and get you less high. but that's the tradeoff.

 

[sessnet]

the discomfort you experience with your vape has more to do with path length than anything else, if your vapor has to travel down a longer path, it will hurt less and get you less high. but that's the tradeoff.

Hi! Thanks for that. i just bought a cheap chinese bong to see if water filteration will help. In addition I bought a Saturn Vapor Tamer. The Saturn says 20 inches for length (I believe), and the bong, say, maybe 10 inches extra. So I've increased the air travel path to over two feet..

It's helped a little it seems, I am not hacking out my lungs but its still pretty rough. I think I need a lot more experimentation, but I am glad it is a little better with the water, cool vapor, and extended length.

It's still a bit uncomfortable and leaves me pretty short of breath after just one bowl...not sure much more more I can do, but I will keep trying - something HAS to help. I've considered the charcoal filter, and possibly higher quality, or just more, water filtration.

 

[Ratm22]

Great topic OO! I am an athlete and recently super conscious of what goes in my body. I have found there is so much more we need to learn about ourselves and what the body really needs.

On to vapor vs smoke. After switching to vapor only at the end of last year I can say without a doubt that I have had major health improvements. Not only performance wise, but also with colds and allergies.

I used to be joints only and was very satisfied. However when your fellow team mates can recover faster, last longer and they are twice your age you start to wonder what you are doing to yourself.

Is vaping healthy? Most likely no.
Is it healthier than smoking. From experience, with the evidence I have. Yes. However Long term effects? Have there been real studies to compare?

Health - No its not HP points that you can regenerate with a potion. We only get one body and I intend to use it for a fucking long time. Anything that will extend that please let me know.

Also vapor out of water is tits! Wish I wasn't lazy the bong is only a reach away!

 

[max]

i can vape ... i can not smoke.

Same here. My lungs are fine with vapor but can't deal with smoke on a regular basis. Heat/high volumes of hot, dry air hitting your throat and lungs can be dealt with by adjusting your draw method or using a vape that suits better. Smoke, even with processing much smaller amounts on a daily and hit by hit basis, isn't tolerable for me. I'll continue to listen to my body as to which is healthier.

 

[Qbit]

Those who still smoke tend to find vaping more difficult than those who have quit. Smokers often find that vapour irritates their lungs and makes them cough. It's like someone who is used to being punched, getting tickled instead.

 

[Nycdeisel]

Yes, qbit, that seems to be the norm. Once you get ALL of the smoke out of your system, vapor is a hell of a lot smoother, and better in every other way too!

 

[VWFringe]

Just to play Devil's Advocate, what about someone who has cancer and doesn't know it? How would they self-report about their health?

But is it just because they lack specific information that would give proper perspective over their condition?

We fight that vaping is better because we believe in evidence based progressive thinking, and we are agents of change, for the most part.

I have a learning disability, or a complex web of self-defense mechanisms that help me filter out perceived emotional attacks - it's called ADHD and most people think it's nothing, but it's prevented me from making eye contact with anyone at a traffic light for my whole life, how can I think that's healthy once I've realized everyone else is making eye contact once in a while?

That's the kind of shit that makes me think I don't know anything about myself or the world, i've been so off

How could I answer a question like what do I think is healthy? hahaha it's beyond my scope of understanding perhaps

 

[Qbit]

it's called ADHD and most people think it's nothing, but it's prevented me from making eye contact with anyone at a traffic light for my whole life,

Eye contact at a traffic light? What do you mean?

 

[VWFringe]

I don't, or haven't, thought of myself as a part of their community. And when stopped at a traffic light I'm more apt to think of the other cars as opponents, obstacles, my betters or nose pickers, not that I look, just that in the past I've enjoyed sitting in judgement on a variety of things...which just circles back to my ADHD, the "conditioned attentional avoidance loop" .... Lacking perspective like that.... That seriously effected my ability to judge my "health"

And having a learning disability, even if it was just an unwillingness to work through emotional triggers I didn't have any perspective over, and still don't for the most part, relied on television, believing it contained enough variety of voices to dispel any lies, but never got the memo about animal products not being good for me, except from resources considered and labelled to be fringe.

So I think the way we get information, the way its filtered and spun, effects our ability to make decisions, and there are also internal hurdles to understanding let alone taking action, so we end up with caracatures of the understanding, instead of the detail.

I used to think I used to be an addict, not that I suffered so much from not enough dopamine/feelings of well-being that I need a little something to help with that, and driven by the experience I'd experienced, would find a way to do it again...but just every six months or once a year, so was i really an addict, or was I just suffering from my condition and driven to self-medicate, but unaware for the most part of what was really going on internally?

EDIT: thinking about this reminded me of "a priori" in Zen & the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, which he explained was an old philosophy concept describing that a person's experience of reality is largely determined by his viewpoint (did i get that right? ).

 

[Ratm22]

That's the kind of shit that makes me think I don't know anything about myself or the world, i've been so off

Well to re-assure you definitely know a lot more about the world than you give your self credit for.

Don't get down on yourself for feeling overwhelmed.

We humans all claim to know what we are doing and always try to play it off so we look smart. But I'm not really sure why I'm on this so called earth rock.

We are not immortal thus we have health. Most of us like being able use our capabilities to the fullest. Anything that prevents that I would say is harming our health. Yes even unknowns could be harming us right now. So what are we to do? We use are tools, our knowledge to try and achieve a smarter, better life style than our ancestors.

Hope you figure out your eye contact issue. If it is that serious should you be driving a vehicle?

 

[VWFringe]

hehehe

you just made the list buddy

do i look weak now?!

jk
i def used to build up meanings too much and didn't care about the big picture before when I drove, but even after realizing that and changing the behavior, I still wasn't a member of the community *(of course I AM, but when you're not getting any dopamine there isn't any chemical feeling to back it up, and that makes all the difference)

 

[djonkoman]

I never make eye-contact with drivers too.. ofcourse I only drive my bicycle so it's a little different for me maybe, but I remember once having a discussion about burka's in traffic. one of the points of my opponent was that you can't judge what someone in a burka will do as well since you can't see their facial expressions or make eyecontact, to wich my reaction was something like wtf why do you have top see that, I never see past the window of a car

I also oftyen have that a car drives past me, honks and then because it honks I take a closer look and discover there's someone behind the wheel that I nknow, but without the honking I would've never noticed that because I just see a car, and look at the car and not past the windiow at who is in that car.

I know the term a priori in another context, maybe it's used in both, but the way I know it it fits in a certain philosophy that we classify what we see in terms of another 'real' world behind it that we know from before we were born(so a priori), I think this is according to plato(among others), he believes that we know what a chair is because we know the pure form/substance 'chair' from the real world where in we were before we were born
the opposite view is for example hume, who believes there are only the characteristiques we see, there is no chair, just it's properties, like it's brown, 4 legs etc, made of wood is a property too but in this context it's only about what you can see/feel/hear/smell etc so made of wood would be formulated like 'rough texture, lines' etc. hume also doesn't beieve in cause-consequence, but more in random things that happen to be happening together, the causation-relation we see behind it is just in our imagination, but no way to know of it's actually there.
but that's all a bit offtopic

 

[vorrange]

a priori is a latin expression that means before, or before something.

 

[VWFringe]

yeah, think I got a priori wrong, but that book keeps haunting me...was thinking of it recently as i over-exerted myself going up a hill I'd driven many times, and the hill seemed very different, I gotta re-read that part, Thanks,