How do I heat up and control the temperature of a coil with wall power?

[namasteIII]

Hello.

I am trying to make a desktop vape that uses a coil (possibly multiple) as a heating element. My biggest piece of missing information right now is how to heat up a coil using the power from a wall. I'm looking for explanations of how this is accomplished, as well as sources for where I can learn more about it.

I have been struggling big time knowing what to google for a question like this, no results so far are related to desktop vapes, but surely information is out there.

I would also like to control the temperature or power of the coil(s) through a digital display ideally. Is there readymade power supplies or controllers I can purchase, or is this something I would need to create as well, and how complex would creating that be? I would like an enclosure separate from the the heater that gives it power, has on/off, and a form of temperature control. The heater would connect to this enclosure with just a wire or cable.

Thanks for reading, if you don't feel like typing an answer but know internet resources that would help me please share those.


*Note, I am talking about little coils like the ones inside the Tubo / tetra series, the vapbong, most of the 510 guys, etc. Not E-nail coils.

 

[f2j]

Hi, do you have a picture of the coil you are referring to ? If not an enail coil, nor a 510 coil, I don't know what kind of coil it is.

Beside coils, there are other heating sources that may pick your interest. Ceramic cartridges (like the ones used in 3D printers, very cheap and common), work in 12V and 24V. Halogen bulbs (12V, 24V, maybe 220V/110V but why would you want 220V or 110V in your palm when you can have 12 or 24).

By variating voltage you'll be able to adjust the temperature. To do so you can use a buck converter (if you use 12V or 24v, personnaly I have that one).

Also, look at the DIY section of the forum, especially that topic, and that one. They contain a lot of useful information.

 

[namasteIII]

I am referring to 510 style coils.

I want quick heat up which I why I think coil is better then ceramic, but halogen is worth looking at. I also like coil because you can combine with glass or ceramic, something to soak the heat into so you can have lots of heat power on reserve for big hits.

Thank you for the response, I'll check out all the links.

 

[JCat]

I am referring to 510 style coils.

I want quick heat up which I why I think coil is better then ceramic, but halogen is worth looking at. I also like coil because you can combine with glass or ceramic, something to soak the heat into so you can have lots of heat power on reserve for big hits.

Thank you for the response, I'll check out all the links.

What you need is a PID controller.

 

[Cheebsy]

I'm not sure what's wrong with an enail coil for your purpose, either way your need a PID they come in AC and DC types. That controls your temp if you want intelligent temp control. Then you just need the correct sized power supply.

Edit: beaten by someone way more knowledgeable

 

[namasteIII]

Sweet thanks I will look into that right now.

I have done little research on enails but I thought that they take minutes to heat up and I want quick heat up. Please let me know If I am wrong though.

 

[namasteIII]

What you need is a PID controller.

Thank you. I understand this now but I don’t understand how I connect my coil to the controller.

Do I plug in the wires to the PID then strip then and then connect the positive and negative to either end of the coil?

Thanks again for the help sorry I don’t know so much.

 

[JCat]

I see you amended your first indicating you are looking at small DC coils not e-nail coils. In this case temperature control isn't achieved through reading the temp through a thermocouple, but instead relies on known resistance values for the coil material to estimate temperature.

As far as readily available ways to heat this up, you would need a "mod" ... such as a DNA or Arctic Fox based device; the DNA board is the easiest to get to embed in a device, but I'm sure there are others.

If you wanted to "roll your own" software, definitely possible, but no point re-inventing the wheel, so would want to start with an open source one I imagine; this would of course require a lot of knowledge in regards to the math for the physics of the heating, as well as you would need to be a proficient programmer.

 

[Hippie]

Depends on the PID, if it has a Solid State Relay (SSR) built in then yes but you will also need a thermocouple in the circuit to sense the temp too.

As a cheap n easy work around I've used soldering irons in some of my builds as the elements have a thermocouple or thermistor built in, they come with a PID box and power convertor, and more handles and elements are also cheap and readily available to butcher and make into more vapes that you can use with the same control box.

Another option would be to use a suitable power supply and a chip from a boxmod

To power my DiY efforts with halogen bulbs, heater cartridges, different material ecig coils, ohmite resistors ... I use buck/boost convertors (basically a digital dimmer switch) like @f2j mentioned and a laptop power supply. The zk-j5x is cheap as chips and adequate for most of my builds but spending a little more on something like the DP30V5A will allow you to increase/decrease the voltage in smaller increments, show you more info onscreen, memory slots ... There are loads of similar devices to choose from, you just need to make sure it can handle the current you're planning on using (ohms law) and doesn't have an annoying fan on the back that kicks in at 1A like the XYS3580 lol

 

[namasteIII]

Cheers thanks again for the wonderful help everyone who has responded. Things are becoming clearer in my head which is fantastic.

I think if I'm going to add a ton of work and complexity just to turn voltage into an estimate of temperature I might as well just keep it in voltage and save the step. I don't think vape temperatures are likely accurate most of the time anyway and also not too important. I guess if they were accurate then it would be nice for users to translate their 210C from all their vapes and have repeatable results. Regardless what is important to me here is that the temperature is adjustable within a scale. So 0-12 on a dial, or a certain rage of voltage on a digital display.

With that being said does anyone know an analog voltage control that can match the fine control of digital. I don't really want to have a whole dial if only a minimal percentage of the options on it can be used in vaporization. So either an analog dimmer thing with a set voltage range that is good for our purposes, or with an adjustable voltage range so I can set it small and have fine control.

My guess is that does not exist and I will have to use digital if I want fine control. Which is fine I just have to find one that suits my aesthetics because If I can make this thing as good as I am aiming for, I would like to sell it, so aesthetics becomes important.

Lastly, am I correct that I get one of these voltage adjusters and feed the power supply into the input and connect cables on the output and connect those cables to both ends of my coil and then it will heat up, and I can control that heat by adjusting the voltage? Roughly?

Thank you again, sorry for being a total noob of electrical engineering.

 

[badbee]

The easiest thing will be for you to buy a "buck" converter something like this: https://www.amazon.com/DROK-Adjustable-Converter-Transformer-Protective/dp/B07JZ2GQJF/ and 12 V supply like would be used with a laptop. Hook this up to almost any type of coil, ribbon or ceramic cartridge heater designed for low voltage DC. This is a 5 A unit which should be enough for any preheated style of unit. For true on-demand instant heat (which is trickier to tune and control) you will need a unit that supports 10+ Amps.

On Ebay you can find PWM voltage regulators with big knobs if you prefer that.

Look at any of the threads under DIY here: https://fuckcombustion.com/forums/diy.35/ and maybe look at the G43 thread on VapeLife: https://forum.vapelife.com/discussion/4306/the-g43-vaporizer-official-thread/p1

A heater designed to take 120 volts (will likely be a ceramic cartridge) can be used on any lamp dimmer to lower the voltage and control power level and temperature. Getting a heater and dimmer with the sweet spot at a convenient mid point of the dial is something you would need to figure out.

 

[namasteIII]

thank you. Super good information about what voltage and amps I’ll be working with.

I am going for on demand quick heat up which is why I’ve selected coils as the best option for me.

For the PWM voltage regulators, do I connect it to a buck converter or does it work all in its own?


also to be clear, how do I connect the coil to the buck converter.

Again, thank you.

 

[badbee]

Go to VapeLife and read the G43 thread and the "G43 Plug-in Wall Adapter DIY" thread. That design solves many of the same problems you will need to. Keep in mind you will need to support much higher currents for an instant on-demand heater which requires heavier more expensive components.

PWM (pulse width modulation) is the term for a voltage regulator that converts one DC voltage to another, a "buck" regulator is a type of PWM that specifically is used to reduce voltage, a "boost" regulator increases voltage. Some boards do just one, buck or boost, some can do both.

How do you connect the regulator to the coil? Ummm, using wires... Specifically it depends on what type of coil and where it is housed. If your coil is in an RDA deck, like is used for eCigs, you need a powered 510 socket (like on a mod). The easiest way to get that is to buy a 510 extension cable and cut off the male 510 end and hook your power up there. For convenience use quick connectors (EC2 or EC3, XT30, etc) for the power so you can unplug when desired.

I've found that the electrical side of things is really the easy part. The hard part is controlling air flow. If you aren't a glass blower or machinist creating custom housings for the heater and mouth piece is a challenge. A lot of tuning of the heater and air path needs to be done before this type of vape will work well and instant on-demand is the hardest to get right.

 

[namasteIII]

Thank you very much again.

So will a PWM voltage regulator and a buck/boost converter do basically the same thing? When I search PWM voltage regulator it's basically a big knob on a little circuit board and the description saying a voltage range and an amperage. Example here. It looks like it has input and output just like a buck / boost converter.

So is it like a buck / boost converter just gives me more information and control and likely a wider voltage range to work with? And a PWM just has it's set voltage range that I control up or down with the knob? Or does a PWM do nothing on it's own and needs to be connected to something like a buck / boost converter to work? The PWM reminds me a lot of all the log vape dimmer controllers they use. Using one of those is also an option if they can output my needed power.


I very strongly agree with your final point. I have come up with a number of heater designs now worth testing but how to make the optimal air path is challenging indeed. I also came to the same conclusion about the value of custom hosings. If I want to try and fit everything into readily available glass joints I am putting a severe limitation on the designs available to me.

The solution I am pursuing is ceramics. I have lots of experience working with clay, though I will need to learn much more as I progress. However I believe I can setup a kiln within my budget and clay and tools aren't too expensive. This is fantastic because then I can create custom pieces myself which means I can afford it, and I can also do countless tests. It also means I can add artistic elements if I ever come up with a design good enough to sell. Most importantly, like you pointed out I can customize the hosing to my specific needs.

Ceramic is also widely used (probably the most widely used heating element) in vapor paths, or as the bowl of countless vaporizers on the market, which means it is likely safe, I will be researching the best mixture of clay bodies for this purpose. My biggest question on this material is I would like to make ceramic hosing for my coil heater that also acts as a heat sink in the way the glass balls in the G43 work. I am just not sure how ceramic works as a heat sink, so I need to do research there as well.

Sorry to keep asking questions, but if I don't want to use a RDA deck how to I connect the coil to the wires. And also how do the wires not get hot and melt being connected to the coil that gets very hot?

Thank you so much again, I really wouldn't be understanding this stuff without you and many on this website.

 

[GI]

Maybe look at Vapbong artofvapor there are some video where show how he fix wires to the coils.

 

[namasteIII]

Maybe look at Vapbong artofvapor there are some video where show how he fix wires to the coils.

Great yes, I need to watch more of his videos.

 

[badbee]

Now wait, which one of is designing a vape?

Sorry for the poor explanation, PWM is a general term, buck and boost are just types of PWM. Yes that regulator you linked to will work, I prefer the ones with a display of voltage and current\power but you can always add boards for that (cheap).

There are two types of on demand: the first is where all heating is on demand like a Splinter or TinyMight, the other kind requires preheating and heat soaking, like most desktops. I thought you meant the first type which runs at 30 to 60 W. If you want the second, eg with glass balls as a heat sink, you can (should) operate at much lower power, 8 to 15 watts.

If I was building inside a pottery tube I would use a ceramic cartridge heater (like almost all the desktop vapes) or a simple hand wound coil like the G43 uses. Cartridge heaters generally come with a pig tail wire that is easy to hook up. The G43 has straight extensions of the wire from the coil connected with a crimp connector about an inch from the core of the heat. It's cool enough at that distance to not be a problem, use hookup wire with a silicon sleeve. If use braided wire sleeves (protects long lengths of wire) be sure they are suited for high temp. Wires have no trouble with the heat but solder is a problem and can't be too close to the heater (and never in the air path).

 

[namasteIII]

Damn good shit.

I think I'm trying to merge the two types of on demand, I don't really love the idea of leaving desktops on all day even though I know it is fine. Just not a fan of that fire safety wise. So I would like it to be a turn it on then pack your bowl and it's ready type of on demand, and then obviously leave it on during the session. Can leave it on top of the bowl to heat soak the bowl and get an even bigger hit, or place it on the stand. Very similar to Herborizer style usage.

Not sure I mentioned it but yeah going for a on top of a bong type of vape. Not a ceramic bong, a glass one you buy.

But I am thinking there is a ratio of heat soaking + direct coil heat that allows for fast usage but also the thick full heat of having a heat sink in the heater. If the coil is basally touching the ceramic hosing then I'm heating that ceramic conductivity, and then pulling all of that heat down convectively into the bowl. Have a wide surface area, and reduce the diameter of the air path a bit on the way down so all the heat is stacking onto itself. Or something like that, who knows if any of this works until I start testing.

I will say the tubo / tetra series is pretty much doing what I am talking about with the combo of on demand and heat sink, he's got the coils housed inside borosilicate tubes.

Again, thanks.

 

[namasteIII]

Hello.

So if I go the route of voltage regulation for my temp/power control, will coil resistance come into play even though this is a desktop?

My idea with voltage control would be that we find the range of no vaporization, to combustion and work within that zone (exceed it for concentrates)

So once in the zone turn the voltage up = more heat, turn the voltage down = less heat.

Is it possible to work this simply, or does resistance mess all that up?

Thank you again everyone, links to things are welcome as well if you don't feel like explaining.