High Potency, Concentrate Based, DIY Tincture Talk

[killick]

I have a lot of herb left from quick washing. I do one wash and then save the herb for 'later', so have a couple of years saved up. About 18 months ago I found a 1/2 litre of rice bran oil, and decanted it into a mason jar and stuffed it full of AVB. I forgot all about it (including a house move), but found it again the other day. I added some to pain cream and smeared it on my back this morning and it's nice and warm.

ABV soaked in rice bran oil for 18 months does work. Plus it doesn't take any work, except remembering that you have it

 

[killick]

(past edit time - sorry for double post)(no, not really)(or am I kidding?)(it's hard to tell from this angle...)

The pain cream was awesome! I tinkered a bit, didn't write anything down, but will try again soon. Today was very productive tho...

520 grams of leftover weed. I weighed it just after the post above. Now there is 250 grams soaking in as much EC as will fit in the bottle, and another 40 grams soaking in a couple of cups of tekillya for Cinqo, or some other special occasion...

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

Thanks, RT, for PG tincture idea. Never tried EtOH tincture of cannabis under tongue, but worked great with salvia years ago. Only experienced oral absorption of cannabis when licking the dish after mixing e-juice - which had PG and even PEG. Recently extracted 50 g QWET filtrate in 2 cups PG. Tried just two mls under the tongue for a couple of minutes - then spit out. Real good, quick effects.

A couple months ago, I was getting non-desirable effects from some vape juice I had mixed (concentrate + PG + VG) so I poured it back in a dropper bottle and added equal amount ethanol and started taking it as a tincture. I had not decarbed the wax, it wasn't particularly old, and it hadn't been in the tank much (so it hadn't been warmed up multiple times from firing). It worked fine as a tincture though, plenty strong. I couldn't tell the difference. I'm wondering how much decarb is necessary for tincture if you're not drinking it but ingesting sublingually. Perhaps the decarb is more needed to help with gut metabolization compared to transdermal/sublingual?

That ejuice above wasn't decarbed, either. Come to think of it - forgot to decarb the active half of this QWET filtrate! 25g second wash filtrate had no effect, so added 25g first wash filtrate and re-extracted - another 8 hours at 130F. Interesting idea about exposure route. What about inhalation? E-juice is probably decarbed, but maybe we assume, because we think it needs to be. No one really knows what happens at the coil.

The pg takes the burn off the alcohol, and both alcohol and pg aid in faster, more effective, sublingual transfer to the blood stream

Have you tried without alcohol, or does that not stay in solution?

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

Sorry for double post, but this seemed worth sharing. Stumbled across this journal review. One of the observations:

Lauric acid (10%) in propylene glycol was the most effective for buccal insulin absorption [69]. Ethanol at various concentrations (5 and 30%) was also effective in enhancing peptide absorption [70].

As far as I know, insulin and other small peptides have little in common with cannabinoids, but happen to have PG and capryllic acid extracts on hand. Difficult to say whether its better than PG alone, but mix produces quick buccal absorption. In the article, glycerol is also listed among the polyols reviewed. Lauric acid is the C12 MCT, capryllic acid is the C8, so they may have similar properties.

 

[macbill]

Wow, I like this thread, too. Here in Washington, concentrate has the THC content on the package.
So as I understand it, decarb 1 gram of concentrate. - place 1 gram of concentrate in a shot glass and cover with alum. foil. Place on cookie sheet in preheated 270F oven for 20 minutes. While still warm, put 4 ml of Kosher, Food Grade PG and 4 ml of Everclear. All together, that’s 9 ml. There are 20 drops to 1 ml. 20 drops X 9 ml = 180 drops total. Let’s say your concentrate was 80%, or 800 mg. 800mg / 180 drops = 4.4444 mg THC per drop.

So two drops under the tongue 8.8 mg THC. I bet a few drops of cinnamon oil wouldn't hurt.

Imagine a new type of Bianca: Bazonga. 2 sprayfulls and you just don't give a shit anymore.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

Just tried making chewing gum with PG tincture. For when you don't have a dropper handy. Feel something by the time the gum's flavorless. Within an hour, feel a heavier stone.

PG speeds both buccal and gut absorption. It's generally recognized as safe for food use, which this is. (Some individuals may be sensitive.)

Chewing gum sure is interesting to make. Need some practice. Melt 1/3 cup natural chicle, mix in 45 mls PG extract. (This extract is all second and third rate material - trim, QWET filtrate, ABV.) Knead into powdered sugar to form stiff dough. That's about it. Break off a piece to chew or roll into balls or strips.

 

[MyCollie]

For longer term storage, would it be useful to put in a layer of inert gas (argon/nitrogen or a mix of the two) into the tincture filled bottles? Usually people do this to make wine or something like olive oil last longer. Maybe you'll get a week and a day or two out of a bottle of wine if you use the spray or bottle system. I'm guessing alcohol based tincture "properly stored" will last a long time regardless. What about bottle sizes? Is it best to keep the level of tincture up towards the top of the bottle? Would 4oz of tincture in an 8oz bottle fare the same as 7.5oz in the same sized bottle?

I bought some dark violet bottles for the tincture. All of the the bottles will be stored in a dark closet.

 

[raelalt]

Very useful thread BTW.

I have made one batch of alcohol tincture that is quite strong, one or two drops under the tongue is all I need for my desired effect. I bought lab grade ethanol (> 95%) which works great but it is quite expensive. Since I am at most using just two drops at a time, just how poisonous would it be if I just substituted ISO as the solvent and medium? I know that drinking the stuff can mess you up physically as well as mentally, but in such a small amount would there be any danger?

 

[Pagliachi]

ISO is posionous to ingest.
A little or a lot
Is still poisonous.
The choice is yours to make

 

[Tranquility]

ISO is posionous to ingest.
A little or a lot
Is still poisonous.
The choice is yours to make

I am uncertain as to how "posionous" a little Isopropyl is. Your body can deal with up to 200ml before issues arise. ( http://www.healthline.com/health/isopropyl-alcohol#Causes3 )

Others are more supportive of it being a poison at lower doses.
http://www.uptodate.com/contents/isopropyl-alcohol-poisoning

Isopropyl alcohol is a sedative-hypnotic agent whose toxicity closely resembles that of ethanol, with which it shares strong structural similarity. Like ethanol, isopropyl alcohol's precise mechanism of action in the central nervous system (CNS) remains uncertain. Changes in membrane fluidity and/or function, and interactions with neurotransmitter receptors, are believed to account for the CNS effects of alcohols and other simple hydrocarbons. There is a linear relationship between the molecular weight of alcohols and their sedative effects: As size increases, so does sedation. Thus, isopropyl alcohol is marginally more potent than ethanol at comparable concentrations.

In untreated animals, the median lethal dose lies between 4 and 8 g/kg. Many sources mistakenly estimate the lethal dose to be 250 mL in humans (eg, less than 400 mL of a 70 percent solution). It is important to recognize that, with supportive treatment alone, adults and children have survived much larger ingestions [1,2].
​

For a generalized search:
https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/a?dbs+hsdb:@term+@DOCNO+116

/HUMAN EXPOSURE STUDIES/ DAILY ORAL INTAKE OF LOW DOSES (2.6 OR 6.4 MG/KG BODY WEIGHT) OF ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL BY GROUPS OF 8 MEN FOR 6 WEEKS HAD NO EFFECT ON BLOOD CELLS, SERUM OR URINE AND PRODUCED NO SUBJECTIVE SYMPTOMS.
[IARC. Monographs on the Evaluation of the Carcinogenic Risk of Chemicals to Humans. Geneva: World Health Organization, International Agency for Research on Cancer, 1972-PRESENT. (Multivolume work). Available at: http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Classification/index.php p. V15 235 (1977)] **PEER REVIEWED**
​

There are others, depending on the particular claim. If all that is being talked about is ingesting small amounts of a drop or two at a time, I don't think the literature would claim any real toxicity of ISO.

 

[raelalt]

I am uncertain as to how "posionous" a little Isopropyl is. Your body can deal with up to 200ml before issues arise.
<...>
If all that is being talked about is ingesting small amounts of a drop or two at a time, I don't think the literature would claim any real toxicity of ISO.

That was incredibly informative. Thank you! I kinda decided NOT to use ISO, for the simple reason that someone else may come across my bottle and decide to swig it. But your reply definitely added to my knowledge on the subject. -Don

 

[Squiby]

for the simple reason that someone else may come across my bottle and decide to swig it.

When my sister was 2, she took a swig from an old used glass coke bottle that my dad had used to store some terpentine. Luckily, dad was varnishing some wood near by and saw her drink it. She was rushed to the hospital and her stomach was pumped. She recovered, but was very lucky.

I always remember what happened whenever I am looking around to store something in. Even if I am alone, I label and store out of potential harms way.

 

[dgmulf]

I've been interested in sublingual cannabis for awhile now, but I haven't had success with it yet. The 50/50 ethanol / PG technique looks very promising though, and I really want to try it at some point.

I'm about to drop a bunch of money on a new vape, but I'm starting to wonder... is it practical to rely on something like this as a daily driver?

 

[sickmanfraud]

I've been interested in sublingual cannabis for awhile now, but I haven't had success with it yet. The 50/50 ethanol / PG technique looks very promising though, and I really want to try it at some point.

I'm about to drop a bunch of money on a new vape, but I'm starting to wonder... is it practical to rely on something like this as a daily driver?

I am a medical cannabis user for over 4 years suffering from chronic pain. I rely on tinctures as my main driver and use vapes for short term pain relief.

I suggest that anyone interested in Tinctures go over to GrassCity and find Psychedelic Sam's tincture thread it is a Stickie thread so it is the first one under Incredible Edible Herb. https://forum.grasscity.com/threads/another-tincture-thread-try-it-youll-like-it.1102315/

The thread is closing in on 700 pages. Read the first 3-5 pages to understand the basic technique. Then the most recent couple of pages to see where the conversation is at. You can ask questions there and rely on the answers. There is an index so you can find something that interests you to make.

Now for my question: isn't propylene Glycol the stuff they give you before a colonoscopy to clean you out?

Do smaller doses affect you differently?

 

[arthritisbites]

Still a useful thread! Thanks everyone! (And in case anyone is curious, the grasscity thread is over 1000 pages now)