Discontinued herbalAire

[OO]

Man, the HA saved the day today.

Had a couple friends over for the first time in a while and no fresh green for the occasion, but the HA blew enough bags out of our 2-3g of abv that we were able to achieve liftoff My friend, who i sold a LB to a week or two ago, says "That thing is fucking amazing, im definitely getting one some day!". The HA isn't subtle or sneaky enough for him, and so the "some day" he refers to will probably be when his kid moves out on her own lol

So anyway, while i was using it today, i knocked the HA off the desk when i moved the pump, because of how fucking stiff the hosing that connects the two is, it just tipped/pushed it right off. Of course the HA is OK because its a tank like that, but man, I'm really wanting to know if someone knows where i can get some soft bendy tubing that the right size to connect the two.

If HA (the company) would just improve the quality of the tubing for the pump as well as the whip, the HA would be a totally perfect tri-functional vape. As it is now tho, i usually just tell people it does bags or direct inhale out of the box, with whip usage being a possibility if they invest in better, softer, wider tubing (which isnt so easy to figure out and find what you need).

To me the HA is like an uncut diamond, its flawless in its performance, but they need to smooth some of the rough edges out of the overall package. BRING ON THE HERBALAIRE 2.2! or 3.0 or whatever other arbitrary numerical sequence!!

And wtf, HA needs to start getting their product out there more, get some marketing going on, some publicity... its the best vape that no ones ever heard of ffs!

you can pick up soft silicone tubing at most hardware stores, that will work well for all your tubing needs, use the larger diameter ones for the whip, and the smaller ones for the pump connection.

the whip i use (it can be seen a few pages back in this thread), is a thick, heavy, tygon tube, which causes a number of issues itself (mostly tipping, and mouthpiece disconnection).

it is an excellent whip style vape if you use it with a larger whip, but i prefer direct draw through a 4 footer, or bags over either.

as far as it being the "best", best is subjective, some people will always think that a cano is the best because it costs more, some think the supreme is best because of how consistent it is and its durability and that you can use any fuel source.

indeed, i would agree that the HA is very good as an efficient, multi-use vape.

but that is my opinion.

 

[charliedontsurf]

Tubing at a hardware store is almost guaranteed to be horrible for your health. At the very least look up a homebrew store and use their food safe tubing, which is used for siphoning beer or wine from one vessel to another.

The main and true value of the Supreme is reported to be its incredible vapor density. As seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bH4LWpaKmc

A V3 of the HA is indeed needed, including a remade mouthpiece which cools more efficiently for direct draw, take a hose better, and can fit to a GonG joint with a better seal. If this cannot be accomplished in one mouthpiece design, two should be included, with the slight extra cost folded in. I'd also like to see if a different, smaller, elevated crucible design would be possible, reducing unwanted conduction vaporizing, a point I've belabored in this thread before. Multiple crucibles, by any account, should be included because they are very fragile and undoubtedly very cheap to manufacture, and including one seems silly.

And lastly, perhaps, a simple valve system for the bags - even a simple plug firmly tied to the mouthpiece by a tether. One thing that people always neglect to mention when pointing out the advantages of a valve system is that it keeps the resin the hell off of your lips, which can be a problem using the bags of the HA.

 

[OO]

Tubing at a hardware store is almost guaranteed to be horrible for your health.

your statement couldn't be more false.
do you know where all of your plumbing comes from?
that stuff that all of your water comes through, check your local hardware store.

all plumbing components can be found at a hardware store.
this includes silicone tubing.
don't lie to people on the boards.

mod note: Being mistaken doesn't mean you're a liar. Please watch your language.

 

[charliedontsurf]

My statement could be more false, I could be acting like YOU and make insane recommendations, like telling someone to get tubing at a hardware store without telling them to check what kind of plastic it is. Just because it "feels" like some 7th floor or medical-type hookah hosing, that doesn't mean it's safe to use. It might not even be safe to HOLD for chrissakes.

I would go to a homebrew store, and buy a beer kit while you're at it.

 

[OO]

My statement could be more false, I could be acting like YOU and make insane recommendations, like telling someone to get tubing at a hardware store without telling them to check what kind of plastic it is. Just because it "feels" like some 7th floor or medical-type hookah hosing, that doesn't mean it's safe to use. It might not even be safe to HOLD for chrissakes.

i've never said anything along the lines of "get some tubing that feels like some 7th floor or medical-type hookah hosing.

i said specifically silicone.

as i've already said, these are very common to use in plumbing.

if they're safe to pump water through, then they're going to be safe to hold. and are quite likely to be safe for breathing through.

btw, silicone is inert, and is used in breast implants, so it is safe!!!

stop trying to act as if i haven't been specific, or am trying to jeopardize the safety of others.

you're failing to read the entire post, and/or not researching the materials mentioned in the post, and/or making assumptions of what i've said.

you are being foolish by calling me insane. i think you're insane for overpaying for the same piece of tubing at a specialty shop vs. a general store, and then defending your purchase by asserting that buying from any other place is insane.

truly you should do research before making claims like you have, or read better, i don't know where to begin honestly.

 

[lwien]

btw, silicone is inert, and is used in breast implants, so it is safe!!!

truly you should do research before making claims like you have, or read better, i don't know where to begin honestly.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/168520-dangers-of-silicone-breast-implants/

http://www.now.org/nnt/winter-2004/silicone.html

http://perfect-breasts.info/what-are-the-long-term-dangers-of-silicon-breast-implants

Now yeah, there are also contradicting reports stating that they are perfectly safe, but stating that "It IS safe" and then following that up with, "...truly you should do research before making claims like you have, or read better..." is a bit suspect.

But then so is, "Tubing at a hardware store is almost guaranteed to be horrible for your health." I guess "almost" is the key word here.

Personally, I would much rather get tubing that I was going to vape through, through a medical supply outlet rather than a hardware store.

 

[OO]

btw, silicone is inert, and is used in breast implants, so it is safe!!!

truly you should do research before making claims like you have, or read better, i don't know where to begin honestly.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/168520-dangers-of-silicone-breast-implants/

http://www.now.org/nnt/winter-2004/silicone.html

http://perfect-breasts.info/what-are-the-long-term-dangers-of-silicon-breast-implants

Now yeah, there are also contradicting reports stating that they are perfectly safe, but stating that "It IS safe" and then following that up with, "...truly you should do research before making claims like you have, or read better..." is a bit suspect.

But then so is, "Tubing at a hardware store is almost guaranteed to be horrible for your health." I guess "almost" is the key word here.

Personally, I would much rather get tubing that I was going to vape through, through a medical supply outlet rather than a hardware store.

your preference doesn't make the tubing at the hardware store any more hazardous.

your plumbing came from a hardware store and not a medical supply store.

it's silly to pay more for the same product.

yes the statement you've quoted is hardly the most correct statement in this thread, but it is far from the least.

 

[Purpl3_Haz3]

btw, silicone is inert, and is used in breast implants, so it is safe!!!

truly you should do research before making claims like you have, or read better, i don't know where to begin honestly.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/168520-dangers-of-silicone-breast-implants/

http://www.now.org/nnt/winter-2004/silicone.html

http://perfect-breasts.info/what-are-the-long-term-dangers-of-silicon-breast-implants

Now yeah, there are also contradicting reports stating that they are perfectly safe, but stating that "It IS safe" and then following that up with, "...truly you should do research before making claims like you have, or read better..." is a bit suspect.

But then so is, "Tubing at a hardware store is almost guaranteed to be horrible for your health." I guess "almost" is the key word here.

Personally, I would much rather get tubing that I was going to vape through, through a medical supply outlet rather than a hardware store.

your preference doesn't make the tubing at the hardware store any more hazardous.

your plumbing came from a hardware store and not a medical supply store.

it's silly to pay more for the same product.

yes the statement you've quoted is hardly the most correct statement in this thread, but it is far from the least.

Just because it used for plumbing doesn't mean it's safe to inhale through, or that it isn't.

The issue, is the temp of air that can flow throughitwithout causing off gasses to be produced.

While you may find safe to Vape through tubing at a hardware store, i have not been able to myself.

 

[OO]

While you may find safe to Vape through tubing at a hardware store, i have not been able to myself.

You should look harder, all of my local hardware stores carry suitable tubing.

 

[WatTyler]

^^^ Depends what you call suitable. If it fits?

There's a reason they make a distinction between food/medical and industrial grade tubing, and it isn't just to charge more. I wouldn't trust industrial grade as you don't know what additives there are to add certain properties to the material, such as improved UV/cold/heat resistance, improved flexibility/durability ect. There are lots of applications (commercial, industrial) for tubing and plumbing that don't involve human consumption where the safety of these compounds is of zero concern, and so the cheapest and most effective materials and methods are used rather than the safest.

If you can secure food grade tubing- and anything meeting that higher grade will surely display that info- you can at least be sure that any additions are suitable for a human application. Anything less might be dangerous, mostly likely not, or maybe only to certainpeople/circumstances, but I'm not going to experiment.

So IMO you can't judge solely based on hardware shop or 'medical' shop, but I wouldn't trust the fare in the hardware store unless it was certified food grade.

 

[Purpl3_Haz3]

^^^ Depends what you call suitable. If it fits?

There's a reason they make a distinction between food/medical and industrial grade tubing, and it isn't just to charge more. I wouldn't trust industrial grade as you don't know what additives there are to add certain properties to the material, such as improved UV/cold/heat resistance, improved flexibility/durability ect. There are lots of applications (commercial, industrial) for tubing and plumbing that don't involve human consumption where the safety of these compounds is of zero concern, and so the cheapest and most effective materials and methods are used rather than the safest.

If you can secure food grade tubing- and anything meeting that higher grade will surely display that info- you can at least be sure that any additions are suitable for a human application. Anything less might be dangerous, mostly likely not, or maybe only to certainpeople/circumstances, but I'm not going to experiment.

So IMO you can't judge solely based on hardware shop or 'medical' shop, but I wouldn't trust the fare in the hardware store unless it was certified food grade.

This!


Yeah, i can find tubing, that would make to stock EQ tubing look like gold!

I just cant see going to healthy route when using cannabis, and then ruining the whole experience with crap tubing...maybe just me? Idk

 

[scottio19]

personally im not picky with my tubing. silicone sounds nice to have over the warped nylon one i currently use, but money dont grow on trees

saying not to buy from a hardware store is a little overboard, especially when theres really only two tubing materials to look for. unless there is a third one I have not yet heard about

 

[Magic9]

^^^Well, since I spent many a sleepless nights between the two, Here's my "first thoughts" review of the "far lesser" one, as promised.


Ordered on Ebay (puffitup). Unit itself is slightly larger than a pop can. The pump is almost as big. HA feels hefty. Super easy to figure out.

Blew two bags of super shitty herb. It really does taste what it smells like. Good news most of the time, not so much this time. Took maybe 2-3 mins. to heat up, maybe 30-45secs to blow a bag. The light is green when heating, red when over temp, and the "amber" really is just a combo of green and red (shows pretty good on reflection of dark coffe table though). Cleared bag in about 3-4 pulls.

2nd night, just so happens, had to clear 2 4wk old baby herbs from bottom of plant. Absolutely unsmokable due to immaturity, wetness and size. Why not run it in the HA? I did. Direct draw for this part. Mouthpiece did get warm, but combatted that by placing lips on more outer part. Smooth sailing. This is where it blew me away. Not only did it vape these wet throwaways, it got me to a point where I didn't even want anymore. Felt warm and fuzzy for about 2 hrs. I can see how this will extend the supply for sure.

The ABV, came out looking like dark tobacco. Just seeing that, made me feel healthier. My only complaints so far, are it only came with one bowl, no extra screens, and I can see why one would need a wider whip. Haven't used the whip yet, but it's so narrow, it looks like it would almost hurt using it without the pump. Does look like it will fit into a small bong perfectly though.

All in all, while both HA and EQ, are seemingly great machines, I haven't thought of the EQ since I received the HA. Maybe one day when I can leave the vape out in the open all the time, I'll get the EQ to go along with the HA, but I can see the HA being my one and only for quite awhile. Great first vape.

Pleas keep in mind, this is only an initial review. The stuff I'm stuck with actually taste better combusting, it's that bad. Full review in about 4-5 weeks once I get to play with it some more. The source material will be OG Kush x Trainwreck x Skunk. I can't fucking wait.

Edit* Forgot a complaint, it does leak vapor when not being pulled on. As I was standing in the kitchen, holding it up to the light, it was clearly coming out.

 

[charliedontsurf]

Good review, for sure.

That leaking vapor you mention is due to the temperature of the crucible and bowl, which is quite high and leads to unwanted conduction vaporization whether or not you are inhaling. This is one of my largest problems with the HA.

On the other points made by another member, you are F***ing crazy to use random tubing from a hardware store and not food safe tubing. I'm sorry you don't want to shell out an extra 30 cents to be sure you aren't inhaling carcinogens. Tubing is cheap as hell, I don't see the point in cheaping out.

 

[WatTyler]

personally im not picky with my tubing. silicone sounds nice to have over the warped nylon one i currently use, but money dont grow on trees

saying not to buy from a hardware store is a little overboard, especially when theres really only two tubing materials to look for. unless there is a third one I have not yet heard about

There are a few different materials, not just silicone. You could get nylon or pvc tubing for example, and probably others. But then you can split each of these into that which is higher quality (food grade) and that which is lower quality (industrial) so you actually have many, many potential options when it comes to whip tubing. Depends on how hard you scratch the surface.

And I'm not saying don't buy from a hardware store- they might carry what you want, in which case happy days, but then again they might only have industrial quality tubing, and it's something for others reading to be aware of.

Clearly if you're not bothered and convenience is your main concern, then whatever the hardware shop has might be good for you.

But for the same reason I don't buy unknown Chinese vaporizers, I don't buy unknown quality cheaper tubing.

And I'm sure many of us would not consider buying from a vape manufacturer that provided industrial whip tubing over food grade as standard.

If the hardware store doesn't have the right quality someone suggested a home brewing store, which IMO is a more reliable option and carries pvc and nylon probably as well/instead of more expensive silicone. Failing that a couple of minutes on google can find plenty of sources.

 

[Egzoset]

What temperature is the vapor when it reaches the end of the main white teflon mouthpiece?

I posted the markings on my PVC tubing as received from HerbalAire:

Kuri Tec Klearon K010 by Kuriyama 3/16" I. D. x 5/16" O. D. 70 F Non-Toxic PVC NSF-51 Canada K090302 00:36

This is what i get when i search about it:

Item # K010-0305X100, KLEARON 73 Series K010 Clear PVC Tubing

Looking at the "Specifications" section i find:

Temperature Range: -4 to 65 C (25 to 150 F)

Is it possible vapor temperature has already dropped by 50 F by the time it exits the main white teflon mouthpiece?...

 

[charliedontsurf]

150F maximum?

I would stop using that IMMEDIATELY and procure better tubing.

Manofkent, you haven't been on the board long (nor have I for that matter), but I wanted to say that I've found most of your posts to be valuable and insightful. Cheers.

 

[Egzoset]

Hummm... I wonder. Why not stop posting immediately and start thinking instead, CDS?...

You see, there can be many possible explanations here! The 1st thing which i'd find reasonable to do in this case definitely isn't to panick, no. Has anyone thought of contacting HerbalAire on this matter? No, of course not... It doesn't seem so and that's a large part of the problem, IMHO.

Perhaps HerbalAire is using a specially selected item from Kuriyama and its range happens to exceed 150 F, perhaps 150 F is all you need for this specific application because of the way it works, etc., etc.

Perhaps there's too much speculation going on at the moment...

 

[scottio19]

im surprised there are other options out there besides silicone and nylon. a few days ago I went to my local home depot and the guy there said there was only nylon tubing and no such thing as silicone tubing

 

[charliedontsurf]

I personally wouldn't feel good about 150 F even if I was running it through water first. I want to be WELL away from the maximum allowable temperature when dealing with tubing.

Don't dare tell me to start thinking, Ergozet. If you're silly enough to use dangerous tubing, more power to your dessicated viscera, but the rest of us want to live. LIVE, I tell you. But if that is truly the stock tubing included with every HA, we have to either assume that A) HA knows best and the tubing is kosher, or B) HA doesn't know or doesn't care and distributes unsafe tubing.

I wouldn't disbelieve either.

 

[WatTyler]

Manofkent, you haven't been on the board long (nor have I for that matter), but I wanted to say that I've found most of your posts to be valuable and insightful. Cheers.

Why, thank you kindly CDS. Making me blush. Back at you. Cheers.

im surprised there are other options out there besides silicone and nylon. a few days ago I went to my local home depot and the guy there said there was only nylon tubing and no such thing as silicone tubing

Kind of demonstrates why the local hardware shop might not be the best place to assess your tubing options. Check out the manufacturers site Kuriyama tubing and you can see how diverse it is. (I'm not sure this is even the best manufacturer- they seem to be more industrial tubing, and don't even carry silicone- I think others will be more specific to the food industry- but it demonstrates the point.)

Looking at the Kuriyama Tubing application guidelines they only actually recommend 3-4 types for breathing through (no odour) ,and none of them are specified for higher temps, or look suitable for whip tubing (flexibility). Others are still deemed 'safe' for breathing, but aren't designed so and so might have a bit of a tubing taste to it.

Looking at their range I can't find any tubing that's rated above 80C (I don't really understand F), but it must be out there for use in pasteurisation, for example? (this increased heat resistance might be where silicone comes into play?) So I think that there are perhaps there more suitable manufacturers for vape whips. (EDIT: FC whip thread has lots more manufacturers and retailers of food grade 'safe' tubing)

I think it wouldn't hurt to ask the hose manufacturer about the temperature ratings. I ight do so. It seems that it's most relevant to the manufacturers in relation to maintaining the pressure rating of the tubing, which decreases with increasing temps (rather than the off gassing of materials, which is our concern).

Also, as Egzoset mentions, the company do advertise that they can make custom tubing for specific applications and can adjust the properties to suit. It could have been done for the HA (although I doub't it would have the same reference number as a retail product, like the HA tube does??? :/ ).

Also I think we should bear in mind we're talking we're talking about the operating temperature of the hosing itself. In a whip, whilst the brief airflow might be above the 65C temp rating, I think it's maybe unlikely that in this brief time of the hot vapor stream it would brings the temp of the actual whip up to too high temp, even on its interior surface. In addition I think that maybe air cools down pretty quickly, and unlike liquid (which is the main other application of tubing), air doesn't transfer heat particularly well. But the easiest way to test is maybe to feel how hot the inside of the tubing is during use, right at the end of a hit?

But there's a lof of 'ifs ' and 'maybes' in that reasoning. It seems that the only way to be really totally sure though I reckon is to use the food grade silicone purposely designed for higher temperature applications

 

[FLskwat]

If my memory is not too defective that is the exact same reference as EQV's stock tubing at the beginning.
If it's the case (anyhow the temp limit was also 65C), then this tubing is real crap and upgrading to silicone medical or food grade tubing will literally "change your world"!
And yes a silicone proper hose resists +200c temps, can be freezed and is neutral flavour...

 

[WatTyler]

If my memory is not too defective that is the exact same reference as EQV's stock tubing at the beginning.
If it's the case (anyhow the temp limit was also 65C)....

Yes it is. I followed it from Egzosets link above.

 

[Egzoset]

Well, well, well...

I'm still reluctant to enter into panick mode as if i were a beheaded chicken, here's why. Using the whip tubing, empirical observation should allow an HerbalAire user to notice his vapor doesn't condense over the full length of this PVC tubing. That, my friends, tells us two things: 1) temperature drops very quickly along the tube, 2) the hottest tube section is where condensed vapor accumulation gets thicker actually. Maybe it's about time someone here contacts HerbalAire to ask if that's part of some design tradeoffs that manufacturer had to make.

 

[notmyrealUSERname]

i have never used the whip that came with my HA. just put the HA mouthpiece directly on your 14mm, or 18mm downstem. no whip, no worries man!

also, as a follow up to my questions about the choke valve for the HO pump have been answered by support @ herbalaire. it turns out that there is actually a valve! they are kindly sending me one, so i will post updates as soon as i can.

i have to admit i haven't blown a bag since i last posted in this thread as i am in love with vapebonging with my HA! i use the sv for quick sessions, and the HA for when i have a little more time. i am truly amazed by the number of clouds i get from the HA every time i hit it through my glass.