Herb Grinders

[InterplanetaryTanner]

I gave you an example and you ignored it. A quality aluminum grinder like the SWII costs just under $20 to produce. But to give you a few more bullet points.

• Titanium is stupidly more expensive than aluminum as a raw material.
• The increase of material hardness of titanium is going to drastically raise the machining cost compared to aluminum
• A Chinese company isn't even going to consider making a grinder out of titanium given the cost and manufacturing challenges when all they have to do is the same thing everyone else does. Sell any generic grinder and call it titanium.

If you want some more examples, take a look at the vapcap M. It's stainless steel and costs $50. And it's all relatively simple to machine compared to a grinder. Which has multiple different parts with threading and teeth.

You're welcome to ship it if you wish. You can send it to:

Interplanetary Development
4100 Eldorado Parkway #100-157
Mckinney Texas 75070

You're also welcome to include you SWII in the package if you wish for a refund. Just include your order number as well.

 

[Chicken #420]

Packaging for shipment now.
It's going to be very enjoyable watching you eat crow!

Tell you what... if you actually have the integrity to examine the grinder, issue a retraction on your baseless posts, and admit that solid Ti grinders actually do exist, then I'll keep your SWII... but based on this conversation so far, I doubt that you are capable... even when the evidence comes to your door in a few days. We'll talk then!

 

[InterplanetaryTanner]

Yep... I thought so.

???

 

[Chicken #420]

Yah... posted that after waiting and getting no response... we both posted almost simultaneously. I updated my post.

 

[snackmaster]

I have confirmed this by density measurement.

Could you walk us through your process and share your numbers? And are there metals that could be mistaken for titanium based on density alone? You're shitting all over @InterplanetaryTanner for not giving any evidence, but then not providing any of your own. Not sure why you're so quick to dismiss his points about material and machining costs when the guy makes grinders...

 

[Chicken #420]

I gave you an example and you ignored it. A quality aluminum grinder like the SWII costs just under $20 to produce.

For you. I bet it can be produced in China for far less... though the quality will undoubtably suffer. Just because a "quality" aluminum grinder costs $20 to make says NOTHING about the feasibility of making a lower quality Titanium grinder at the same price point. I did not "ignore" your example, I simply fail to see how it is relevant. The Chinese can do a $4.09 grinder INCLUDING SHIPPING, I've bought more than one and they work. High quality? No... but we're not comparing apples to apples here.

But to give you a few more bullet points.

• Titanium is stupidly more expensive than aluminum as a raw material.

• The increase of material hardness of titanium is going to drastically raise the machining cost compared to aluminum
• A Chinese company isn't even going to consider making a grinder out of titanium given the cost and manufacturing challenges when all they have to do is the same thing everyone else does. Sell any generic grinder and call it titanium.

Like yourself, I am intimately involved in machining, making my living from that industry. All 3 of your bullet points are flawed within the context of this argument... for various reasons. Here is a point-by-point:

1) Titanium alloys do NOT necessarily cost that much more than Aluminum, especially when purchased in bulk.

2) Ti is not that much harder to machine than Aluminum... in most cases speed and feed can be equivalent if the right carbide insert is chosen.

3) I have seen many, MANY products from China that "broke the mold" and did something different or more expensive than what's currently "on the market". It's called innovation... and pays off hansomely if the right innovation is hit upon!

If you want some more examples, take a look at the vapcap M. It's stainless steel and costs $50. And it's all relatively simple to machine compared to a grinder. Which has multiple different parts with threading and teeth.

Which has ZERO to do with the existence of Ti grinders! Stainless steel is a completely different beast from Ti, in both machinability and cost.

You're welcome to ship it if you wish. You can send it to:

Interplanetary Development
4100 Eldorado Parkway #100-157
Mckinney Texas 75070

You're also welcome to include you SWII in the package if you wish for a refund. Just include your order number as well.

Packaged and addressed. Sending tomorrow.

 

[Chicken #420]

Could you walk us through your process and share your numbers? And are there metals that could be mistaken for titanium based on density alone? You're shitting all over @InterplanetaryTanner for not giving any evidence, but then not providing any of your own. Not sure why you're so quick to dismiss his points about material and machining costs when the guy makes grinders...

Yes... no problem!

Basically, you need 2 figures to calculate density: the mass of the object (easily obtained with a scale) and the volume it occupies (obtained by submersing the object in water, and recording the change in liquid volume). I personally used a Class A graduated cylinder of 2000ml capacity to measure the volume.

Dividing the mass by the volume will give you the density figure.

Density of Aluminum: 2.7g/cubic centimeter
Density of Titanium: 4.5g/cubic centimeter

It is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to mistake one for the other, even if you are REALLY SLOPPY with your measurements!

 

[needalift]

@InterplanetaryTanner , if @Chicken #420 sends back his SW ll and you have nothing to do with a used grinder , get at me ...

 

[InterplanetaryTanner]

@InterplanetaryTanner , if @Chicken #420 sends back his SW ll and you have nothing to do with a used grinder , get at me ...

Will do! I don't believe he actually owns one however.

 

[kellya86]

How much do them Amazon titanium grinders weigh????

What's the scrap value of titanium right now..???

It's hard to believe i can acquire that much quality titanium for just 10 of my english pounds....

Im very sceptical....
I think more than a density test is needed here to accuratly identify all material used within these pieces.....

 

[MoltenTiger]

A Chinese company isn't even going to consider making a grinder out of titanium

I don't know, the amount of facilities pumping out titanium nails from China across the planet might have a little more incentive now the quartz banger phase is in full effect....

It's not that much of a stretch to think that there are titanium grinders out there, is it?
Just the fact you assume that means there's a Chinese businessman ready to make it happen..
The quality might be questionable, but just because it's not virgin source doesn't mean it's not a titanium grinder.

And given he linked China sourced re-branded goods, why even disclose your profit margin lol
FYI it could be much greater if you utilise some.... questionably ethical labour powered by second generation riches.

 

[InterplanetaryTanner]

Well, this discussion has gotten a bit out of hand… lol. But it's still a good discussion.

I don't know, the amount of facilities pumping out titanium nails from China across the planet might have a little more incentive now the quartz banger phase is in full effect....

It's possible, but it's highly unlike that the Chinese would be willing to take on the risk of selling direct to the consumer, because it's a much safer move to sell to a business who would then resell them. But the Chinese are selling direct to the consumer these days. And more are slowly joining that trend everyday.

But theoretically, let's say the listing above is direct from a Chinese manufacturer. And let's take the approximate average they are selling nails out of the factory for, $5. Lets multiple that by 4 as an estimate of the increased material and machining costs for producing a grinder compared to a nail. Then divide that by 2 to get an estimate on their cost to produce. And then add in shipping costs to the US, and then the shipping cost to Amazon. Say, roughly $1.5. This rough and highly unlikely guess would come out to $11.50 for the product. Add in the fees for selling on Amazon for $20, and what you end up with is $2.50 profit per sale.

The above is a very rough and very generous estimates. But even if they were accurate, theres still a number of issues that are not addressed:

• Why would the Chinese bother with all the added hassles of selling direct to the consumer in the US when they could sell to a business who would resell them, take on all the risk, and still allow them to make the same amount of money per unit?
  
• The Chinese love their product photos. They are not the best at it, but they take great pride in displaying their goods. Because, like in all online sales, it's one of the most important factors in getting sales. - One of the grinders Chicken linked has what looks like 4 renderings. The other has one low quality photo.
• Why would a titanium grinder be priced for only $20? Such an innovation would surely demand a premium price.
• If a company is going to innovate a premium grinder made of titanium, why would they make it such a generic design?
• The two grinders Chicken#420 linked look like a generic Zinc Grinder. (Picture 1) (Picture 2)

So again, while it is possible. It's also entirely unlikely.

It's not that much of a stretch to think that there are titanium grinders out there, is it?
Just the fact you assume that means there's a Chinese businessman ready to make it happen..
The quality might be questionable, but just because it's not virgin source doesn't mean it's not a titanium grinder.

I feel like this point is where the conversation took two separate turns. Is it possible for a grinder to be made of titanium? Sure. I suppose it's possible. But the question then becomes "What's the cost to produce the worst quality product available that's made from Titanium?" - This is chicken's point of view. And with his price points mentioned above, $13 and $20, that means that the net payout per sale on Amazon for each of these grinders sold is $8.03 and $13.98 respectively. Which means the cost to produce, package, ship to the US, and to ship again to Amazon still has to be deducted from that amount in order to get the profit per sale. - Which, means you have to ask yourself two questions:

1. Would it cost more than $8.03 and/or $13.98 to produce a crappy titanium grinder? (Assuming these grinders are sold at cost.)
2. Is it more likely these are not actually titanium and it's misleading marketing? (Which is one of many points chicken420 has raised, and gone on to contradict himself.)

Based on my experience and knowledge, I'd have say I'm fairly certain the answer to the second question is a "Yes". - Both due to the fact that one looks identical to a zinc grinder ID one sold, and the other is very similar. And because the cost of the Zinc grinder was about $4 to get from China to Amazon. Which would leave about a $4 and $10 profit per unit if sold at the respective prices of $13 and $20.

$3.5-$4 being practically the lowest cost you can produce a metal grinder that I know of. And business are generally in business to make money...

And given he linked China sourced re-branded goods, why even disclose your profit margin lol
FYI it could be much greater if you utilise some.... questionably ethical labour powered by second generation riches.

I gave a rough estimate on cost to produce being just under $20. There's a lot of other factors to take into account too. But at the same time, I really don't care. IDs not out to nickel and dime anyone. We'd much rather have loyal fans who know were honest, provide quality products, great customer service, all while providing cheaper prices than anyone else. And not needing to use shady tactics or marketing. - Because that's what we would want out of a company, if we were our customers.

So Chicken can claim I have no integrity at all. I don't mind. I believe my record speaks for itself.

 

[Chicken #420]

InterplanetaryTanner,

Yes... this discussion has become WAY out of hand!

You have gone from making claims with no supporting evidence, to basically calling me an outright lier, followed by misquoting me regarding your integrity. Saying that I doubt you have the integrity to admit your error is NOT the same as me saying outright that you have none, I was going to wait until you had the proof in your hand and give you a chance to retract your erroneous posts... but fuck it. You are not worth the time and effort, nor the shipping fees I'd need to pay to wake up your ignorant ass. Remain in a state of ignorance and hold on to your opinions despite the evidence... you and your mind deserve each other!

Somebody here will undoubtably buy one of the above two grinders I linked, and report here how utterly full of shit you are... I will relish the day!

I came to this site and posted what I thought was a helpful post based on my own extensive (and expensive) experiences with a multitude of grinders... and I get this raft of shit in response. Just because you are a "respected member" who sells a pretty damn good grinder (if I say so myself, which I do!) doesn't mean your behavior here is excused. You have lost a customer and a potential friend, and missed out on an opportunity to educate yourself and open your woefully ignorant eyes to something new that you didn't expect. Missed chance, chump-o!

As for myself, I'm through with this fucking place... so long, wankers!

 

[gonzorelli777]

Alrighty then.

FWIW - almost all the hostility in the last few posts has been on your end Chicken, the most inflammatory thing Tanner said was to stop spreading alternative facts. He gave you reasons why he (and many others here, including myself) doubt that we can pick up a titanium grinder for 20 bucks. You've been aggro ever since.

Adios.

 

[turk]

...let's get back to grinder discussions....

 

[TRDreviews]

InterplanetaryTanner,


As for myself, I'm through with this fucking place... so long, wankers!

Don't let the door hit ya on the way out man

Regarding the topic above... I was looking through the grinders listed and I don't believe they are Ti. I might go and buy one next semester and bring it to my lab for a materials test though.

When I first started talking to Tanner about the SWII I thought it was just gona be a normal grinder. The SWI was inexpensive, but not really anything interesting to me. The SWII though... man that changed vaping for me (a bit). It has some advantages over my SCS that I love, like the angled sidewalls and how the kief screen is easier to clean (especially because it is removable).

It's easier to use than my SCS.

It's quicker to clean.

It isn't annoying as fuck to get herb out of the container.

It's slightly larger, and cheaper, for a very similar material.

The teeth don't get stuck on any dense material.

It has a consistent grind, my SCS does not.

I love the missing teeth in it, for small nugs it is nearly perfect. It keeps the grind super fluffy, which I prefer for my convection vapes.

Sorry to see that you're having an issue with a manufacturer talking to you, (and to be honest he wasn't a dick about it either) and that's the entire reason you're leaving, but I'm glad that you think you can get a Ti grinder for $20. I'll take some of what you're vapin on if you're ever in MA.

 

[gonzorelli777]

I'm glad that you think you can get a Ti grinder for $20. I'll take some of what yo're vapin on if you're ever in MA.

I'd be wary, maybe a quick materials test on that would be in order too

 

[little maggie]

It has been an interesting discussion. I'm naive and would have thought that when a grinder says it's solid titanium that it is. Nothing else to add that I haven't: my favorite grinders are the SW2 and SLX with a preference of the SW2. I use a couple of grinders because I only grind enough for 1 session and like to have a couple of different varieties ready.

 

[MoltenTiger]

Well, this discussion has gotten a bit out of hand… lol. But it's still a good discussion.



It's possible, but it's highly unlike that the Chinese would be willing to take on the risk of selling direct to the consumer, because it's a much safer move to sell to a business who would then resell them. But the Chinese are selling direct to the consumer these days. And more are slowly joining that trend everyday.

But theoretically, let's say the listing above is direct from a Chinese manufacturer. And let's take the approximate average they are selling nails out of the factory for, $5. Lets multiple that by 4 as an estimate of the increased material and machining costs for producing a grinder compared to a nail. Then divide that by 2 to get an estimate on their cost to produce. And then add in shipping costs to the US, and then the shipping cost to Amazon. Say, roughly $1.5. This rough and highly unlikely guess would come out to $11.50 for the product. Add in the fees for selling on Amazon for $20, and what you end up with is $2.50 profit per sale.

The above is a very rough and very generous estimates. But even if they were accurate, theres still a number of issues that are not addressed:

• Why would the Chinese bother with all the added hassles of selling direct to the consumer in the US when they could sell to a business who would resell them, take on all the risk, and still allow them to make the same amount of money per unit?
  
• The Chinese love their product photos. They are not the best at it, but they take great pride in displaying their goods. Because, like in all online sales, it's one of the most important factors in getting sales. - One of the grinders Chicken linked has what looks like 4 renderings. The other has one low quality photo.
• Why would a titanium grinder be priced for only $20? Such an innovation would surely demand a premium price.
• If a company is going to innovate a premium grinder made of titanium, why would they make it such a generic design?
• The two grinders Chicken#420 linked look like a generic Zinc Grinder. (Picture 1) (Picture 2)

So again, while it is possible. It's also entirely unlikely.




I feel like this point is where the conversation took two separate turns. Is it possible for a grinder to be made of titanium? Sure. I suppose it's possible. But the question then becomes "What's the cost to produce the worst quality product available that's made from Titanium?" - This is chicken's point of view. And with his price points mentioned above, $13 and $20, that means that the net payout per sale on Amazon for each of these grinders sold is $8.03 and $13.98 respectively. Which means the cost to produce, package, ship to the US, and to ship again to Amazon still has to be deducted from that amount in order to get the profit per sale. - Which, means you have to ask yourself two questions:

1. Would it cost more than $8.03 and/or $13.98 to produce a crappy titanium grinder? (Assuming these grinders are sold at cost.)
2. Is it more likely these are not actually titanium and it's misleading marketing? (Which is one of many points chicken420 has raised, and gone on to contradict himself.)

Based on my experience and knowledge, I'd have say I'm fairly certain the answer to the second question is a "Yes". - Both due to the fact that one looks identical to a zinc grinder ID one sold, and the other is very similar. And because the cost of the Zinc grinder was about $4 to get from China to Amazon. Which would leave about a $4 and $10 profit per unit if sold at the respective prices of $13 and $20.

$3.5-$4 being practically the lowest cost you can produce a metal grinder that I know of. And business are generally in business to make money...




I gave a rough estimate on cost to produce being just under $20. There's a lot of other factors to take into account too. But at the same time, I really don't care. IDs not out to nickel and dime anyone. We'd much rather have loyal fans who know were honest, provide quality products, great customer service, all while providing cheaper prices than anyone else. And not needing to use shady tactics or marketing. - Because that's what we would want out of a company, if we were our customers.

So Chicken can claim I have no integrity at all. I don't mind. I believe my record speaks for itself.

Where are you pulling this $5 arbitrary figure from? Have you shopped on DHgate or been to China?

I use a Titanium GH with China machined materials, if you have the hardware it's not a stretch to make a Ti grinder? It's not that innovative, it's literally just a more expensive material that requires more expensive machinery, but materials can be dirt cheap in China and the hardware exists en masse, without knowing the source, making a claim of a 5 dollar average and then a random 4x multiplier doesn't gel with my CNC experiences.

Price depends on scale, like with these nails which can be had for a dollar fifty.

Maybe the linked grinders are a Zinc alloy, that wouldn't surprise me, what would surprise me is if a machine shop who has large Ti stock sitting around for a now obsolete product wouldn't make a gamble of a different yet similarly marketable cheap shitty thing. Not a stretch, from what I could see on YouTube, some might already exist

 

[MoltenTiger]

I'd be wary, maybe a quick materials test on that would be in order too

Old mate comes on stating he measured the mass, so for the record if its a Zinc-Cu-Ti alloy it'd be approx twice as heavy as titanium, which is 150-160% heavier than a standard Al alloy grinder, which he said it was found to be.

Wariness is totally fair, but no one else has one to test. A hardness index would be helpful, but who even cares - it's not even 'innovative'. It's a basic ripped off design made up of a common material produced in a standard process. They are definitely being distributed through 3rd parties so the scale is probably large enough for at least one plant to make economic sense of it. Doubt it all you want, but no one here has any basis to outright doubt a guy who claimed to do the science.

I'm of the opinion it's most probably a Zinc alloy too, but I'm not going to push numbers from a game I'm not part of (Chinese distribution, are your grinders milled in China Interplanatery?), simply asking for the volumetric displacement and mass should be enough for anyone with any materials knowledge to deduce the truth.
Most of the worlds titanium is milled and produced in China, I feel like there'd be a Ti grinder out there available and a westerner telling me how much I can expect it to cost and why it's inconceivable is only as trustworthy as a dude who volumetrically measured a grinder, has machining experience and claimed it to be Ti. That wasn't quality discussion, that was rejection of idea without any firm basis or constructive insight (unless Tanner has actually attempted to produce a Ti China grinder, which isn't impossible but it seems to me to be unlikely given his over estimation of material expense).
I appreciate the angle of trying to educate, but I think you missed the part where he had a considered process to deduce it's material - those values are the only boat in this race and blindly assuming they must be wrong is arrogant (just ask for his calculations if it's so unbelievable), I feel old mate got a rough wrap here - his first post on grinder comparisons was greatly informative and two of his el cheapo comparison grinders become the focus of his valuable insight..

Personally I'm very happy with my 7000 series Al SLX and technically that's better than most everything available. Nothing wrong with Zinc alloys, it's all moot, sorry to dwell, but the instigator was pushed from a respected platform to reply without emotional override and then was waved away. That's just so weak, I really appreciated the jokes in this thread, and then it degraded to this. Again sorry to carry on with it, but I felt I should say something.

Back to grinders, maybe we can appreciate the other products discussed prior?

 

[TRDreviews]

snip

We weren't referring to the grinder with gonzorelli777's post man

 

[MoltenTiger]

Lol don't mind me then

 

[KidFated.]

Is anyone going to pick-up the wacky-willy Boomer's Stainless Steel grinder. It has pyramid teeth like the old school plastic grinders. If I remember right the pyramid teeth design were good for a coarse/medium grind but not so much for fine. I am curious what this grinder does and how it works compared the the 'normal aluminum grinder teeth designs' but I am not willing to drop a franklin to find out. Come on, someone out there in FC land has got to be braver than me and buy this puppy for a review FC style.

http://www.wackywillysweb.com/products.php?cat=150

hit me up when its half off and ill try it out.

 

[Friend Man]

Having read the recent posts in the thread I'm scared to ask, but are we saying SW2 over the SCS? I was leaning towards the SCS purely because I can get an orange one, but if the SW2 is that much better I'll go for one of those...

 

[needalift]

I have an SCS 4 piece and it's a tank . It is about 4 years old and performs and still looks great . I was wanting to get a 3 piece , but am now considering the SWII . I like the idea of the removable screen to mimic the 3 piece and the fact that it's magnetic ( no threads to get small pieces stuck in ) is a plus !! But it comes down to doing the research and deciding which grinder meets your needs .