Discontinued Haze Dual V3

[KeroZen]

Nice to hear that the two bowls are well insulated, I was just asking to be sure. This device seems to be well-thought overall. Another question for you guys: what material is the bowl lid/cover made of? I mean the two black pads that can be seen in the picture post #13 / page #1. Is this some kind of silicone or something else?

For the limited temp settings I'm sure it's fine for most people and indeed the 3 usable ones are well-chosen. It's not clear what the first one is for though? Decarb'ing? Drying buds? Vaping tobacco?

I'd definitely like to see more settings in the next version or a future update and I'll keep watching this thread evolve, you fellas seem to be pretty happy so far, it's good!

 

[trevorzamani]

Nice to hear that the two bowls are well insulated, I was just asking to be sure. This device seems to be well-thought overall. Another question for you guys: what material is the bowl lid/cover made of? I mean the two black pads that can be seen in the picture post #13 / page #1. Is this some kind of silicone or something else?

For the limited temp settings I'm sure it's fine for most people and indeed the 3 usable ones are well-chosen. It's not clear what the first one is for though? Decarb'ing? Drying buds? Vaping tobacco?

I'd definitely like to see more settings in the next version or a future update and I'll keep watching this thread evolve, you fellas seem to be pretty happy so far, it's good!

It says food/surgical grade silicone online. On the manual, it says the first setting is primarily for e-liquid users. Hope this helps.

 

[scottg402]

A couple hours ago I replied to the sales on the email chain that I have going. It's over 20 messages long at this point.

Here is what I wrote. ...

Hi Jamie,

Speaking of marketing, I thought they'd like to know that I tried something completely different with the Haze. I put herb in the oil cans which makes it much easier to clean and swap out the bowls.

Can you ask the engineers if they have ever tried that? You guys should promote that. It makes your device even more unique and it also will boost accessory sales.

It works great! I already purchased a ton more cans I like it so much!

I would also direct the marketing team, and developers back to this forum here:
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/haze-vaporizer.13162/

There are already four owners providing their initial feedback and many others interested in this device.

I am one of them and by the way my oil can trick is catching on. There is a detailed explantion with pictures there if you aren't understanding what I am talking about. People really seem to like it and they are buying a bunch more oil cans just like me.

I think you are going to sell a lot of these devices either way but if you are looking for some initial feedback for possible revisions I would encourage them to read the entire thread.

I can summarize a few thoughts and they revolve around lack of temperature control with only four (also some questions on what they are set at) and some overall minor design suggestions.

You guys should really join! I firmly believe this will boost sales and provide credibility for skeptic's on the fence about your product. There just isn't a lot of info out there on the web about you guys.

That's it for now. Thanks for the great product and great service! Please do let me know if any changes are coming along. I would love to pilot and provide some feedback.

I hope you had a great 4th!

Thanks
Scott

I was shocked when they responded on a Sunday night with an extremely detailed response!

For the mods I would like to note that I have received permission from Haze to post this. Please contact me if you require specific proof.

To keep it short I am going to summarize the relevant information and post specifics on the that are detailed in quotations:


1. They are joining the forum! They are looking for someone to do this full time!

2. They are investigating the herb in oil can techniques I introduced here on FC.

3. They went into great detail on the temperature settings on portable vapes. Here are their exact words:

"Regarding the temperature questions, we have optimized the settings to cover most major dry herb groups. The setting 2,3 and 4 will cover 90% of the aromatherapy world. Setting 1 is mostly for e-liquid/e-cigarette users as well as low temp herbs . I read some of the comments on that thread that you just submitted.

Unfortunately, many consumers are not aware of the physics or engineering concept of a portable vaporizer and they fall into marketing tricks. There is a lot of misleading information and products in the market. I can safely guarantee you that none of the digital temperature displays on most well known brands are as accurate as people think.

You are heating a surface entirely with a thermister measuring the surface temperature. This thermister tells the PCB board that you are at X temperature. Your PCB board(the computer in the unit) is tiny due to the space limitation. Its sophistication is limited to the hardware (chips and resistors) you can place on it. Now you can choose military grade application which costs thousands. This is a common issue with all heating units. There are much cheaper applications such as cell phones etc. but in heat world, there is none. During engineering of the unit, we analyzed a dozen of vaporizers, very well known brands which i am not going to reveal the names and we found out that what they display on the LCD screen as the temperature reading was grossly misrepresented. If you think that you are at 375F and if you believe that you are going to 385F with pushing the little + button, the actual temperature can be 398F at a sunny Florida summer day and it can be 360F at a windy Chicago winter. It can be different based on how much you packed your bowl. There is no unit that measures the herb temperature. They all measure the heating chamber. Heat is transferred from the source to the chamber and from chamber to the screen and from screen to the herb. During this transfer, there is always loss. It is physics. How can you advertise that "your herb is now at 385F" without measuring (literally sticking a thermocouple into the herb) ? The fact that most people do not know or realize that all herbs vaporize within a range. The optimum temperatures published everywhere for each herb type are nothing but an average of these ranges. There is no product in the market that shows you accurate current temperature and it really does not matter. Even the most expensive desktop units have a + - 20F difference and they have space to place more advanced PCB boards. When it comes to portables, any product who advertise precise digital temperature control, should be asked to prove this in a video. Attach thermo couples to the bowls and also inside the herb, set the temperature on LCD and show the world how precise their readings are.

We could easily place a small LCD screen with 250F range to go up and down in temperature and that would not cost us much to do since we already have a board inside ( which controls LED and heat settings). Unfortunately, that is nothing but fooling the user.

Instead, we have studied the herb vaporization temperature ranges. Over 400 herb types with scientific data. Our engineering team set temperature points based on the middle average of the overlapping temperature ranges. We could include 5-8 settings instead of 4 ( as you see, we have plenty of room for more LED lights on the surface) or we could include only 3 settings. The number 4 came from the results of data analysis. These 4 settings we have will effectively vaporize almost all herb types that are known today.

Sorry for the lengthy email but everybody at Haze Technologies are extremely passionate about vaporization, science and research.

Feel free to share this information so people can make more informed decisions when they are buying a vaporizer. No matter what brand they buy. It is the healthiest way of smoking."

They also wanted me to state the following on the temperature subject:

"P.S. The 4th setting on each bowl go way above 490F but its effect on each bowl is regulated by our patent pending heat exchange mechanism so nothing is combusted. I believe somebody from web design team posted wrong info on the site at one point but it was corrected shortly after."

And lastly. ...

"please quote that i am not an engineer and my opinion is solely based on the discussions that we had with our engineers over the years of development. Any questions about my opinion can be answered/addressed by our engineering team."

So good news on them joining and I am interested in discussion on the temperature subject.

 

[trevorzamani]

I think I spoke with this lady over the phone before. Did they say when they will join here?

 

[215z]

For what it is worth @scottg402 if I plonk down cash for this, it is to exclusively use it with the oil cans. even with flowers.

I have a great a desktop flower rig (volcano) and an amazing portable oil rig (Hercules). However, my portable flower rigs are limited by capacity. Reloading on the go is a bitch.

I guess I consume way more ganja than the average user, but none of the portable flower rigs on the market fit my lifestyle.

I do worry about the durability of plastic equipment, As I am NOT gentle on my gear. Lol all my iPods and iPads have broken screens. being ginger with gear is a lot to ask of someone who has mobility and dexterity issues

 

[cawshook]

So exactly how well does this work for hash?

With regards to temperatures, for me its perfect.
250 for e-juice I think.
350 I probably won't use it.
375 most of my hits.
410 concentrates +last remaining hits for flower

 

[NickDlow]

The first temp is for oil/e- liq, 2 is for Tabacco n other shit, 3,4 are for herbs. I email about the temps n they are 250, 350, 375, and 410. In the can tho it gets hotter which is how it vapes the wax, btw guys my boy hooked up up with a gram of shatter for the bubble so needless to say back to waxing YEA!!!!! Haha also works great for compress kief, powered kief, and hash. Zero combustion all convection. Their engineering of this product is outstanding.

Here's what amy from haze said about filling the cans n their heat.

Hi Nick

Wowww it is very clever. I did not know that you could use it like this. I will bring it to my team's attention. As a concept, it should provide better heat up of the herb that way since the herb is heated through the air which comes from a solid surface rather than coming from a surface that has holes in it (screen holes). More surface to heat up. This was never tested on our end but in theory, it should perform better. Yes it is convection method since your herb has no direct contact with the direct heat source. This also explains your heat up time. Our actual bowl temperatures get up to 470 - 510F (which keeps the herb temperature around 410F at the highest setting) which makes our product extremely unique in its category. You will not see any other portable device that gets to those temperatures in this size. The reason that these temperature levels do not burn the herb is our patent pending heat exchange system. These temperatures allow you to vaporize wax efficiently but not combust the herb at the same time. These temperatures explain why dry herb in an oil can also works well.

I am glad you shared it with me and also glad to hear that you are enjoying your unit with more innovative ways.

Amy

This was in the 4th of July might I add, I wasn't expect a reply till the following Monday lol

Sorry if this info was already posted but I didn't want to read all 35 messages I was skimming Loki guys have been busy posting lol that's great

 

[KeroZen]

So good news on them joining and I am interested in discussion on the temperature subject.

Indeed this is excellent news! Thank you for sharing with us their informative answer. Now we can discuss temperature control and settings.

Before I start, it just struck me that the Indica vaporizer went into the same adjustment process when they got massive feedback from us FC'ers (if you read the first dozen of pages it's quite obvious how fast it happened) But ok at least the high setting on this one seems to be good plus there's the patent pending heat exchange thingie that can't combust (btw I never was able to combust with the Ascent so far, but I have to test it in a desert at noon under a clear sky, who knows?!)

So why would people need more than 3 settings that's the question? I don't know why he side-tracked the discussion around precise temperature display, because that's not the point. Besides, don't get me started on temperature regulation or I'll summon @Hippie Dickie who will explain you better than me how he was able to maintain a steady set point with less than +/-5°F deviation (and even better in the latest iteration if I'm correct)

We know that the display is just an indicator, but when I say that I can do 7 usable temperature levels on a single bowl with the Ascent, I really mean it. I don't care what actual temperature it is, but I do know that each level will yield a certain amount of hits, with clearly a different taste each time, until it's depleted. I'm not even talking about chemical compounds boiling temps here, just that it's able to regulate its temp well enough to give 7 different experiences with the same load. And it could do even more levels of course, but they would be shorter and well at some point it's hmm pointless.

So that's the first argument. The second is precisely to account for parameters variation: weather (if he says that can have such a drastic effect, the more options you have the more you are able to cope with), material dryness, and above all: the strain you use! How can this be overlooked?!

"Excuse me but our supercomputer made a super average of all scientific articles about mmj vaporization temperatures and decided that 3 usable settings would fit 90% of all average use cases"

Well no, I beg to differ, call me a vapor snob (but I'm rather a taste addict), but if I tell you that I can feel the difference between two different set temps 5°C appart and that I do adjust my temps to suit every strain (like this sat hybrid for instance that has very delicate menthol-like aromas that are completely overwhelmed by the fuely/chemical aromas when starting directly too high...)

I understand most people would be perfectly happy with these 3 settings, not every one wants to have options. My gf enjoys her FlowerMate a lot and it has a single setting, but she's only a casual user. For my part having these options is essential to my vaping experience. I can go pretty fast and do only two levels for short sessions, or let it last and last and last forever (not good for the poor batteries though...)

 

[NickDlow]

Just a thought have u guys tried the dry herb in the can w/o the rubber lid on? Any difference? I haven't tried and I'm at work so I can't mess with it let me know.

 

[scottg402]

For what it is worth @scottg402 if I plonk down cash for this, it is to exclusively use it with the oil cans. even with flowers.

I have a great a desktop flower rig (volcano) and an amazing portable oil rig (Hercules). However, my portable flower rigs are limited by capacity. Reloading on the go is a bitch.

I guess I consume way more ganja than the average user, but none of the portable flower rigs on the market fit my lifestyle.

I do worry about the durability of plastic equipment, As I am NOT gentle on my gear. Lol all my iPods and iPads have broken screens. being ginger with gear is a lot to ask of someone who has mobility and dexterity issues

The oil herb/oil can solution on the Haze only enhances the portability of the portable!

I love it so much I plan to use the oil cans exclusively with herb. I decided this weekend after using both can/screen methods.

I like to keep a clean device so I pull out the screens for every use and clean them anyway. To pull out cans and clean them is really no difference and in fact it's easier for me.

The advantage is great though.

They are easier to load because you load them separate from the device so you can grind up a big pile and load a bunch in a row.

Also with hot swap ability and easier to load up by just dropping them in.

On the plastic concern.....I don't think it's in any better or worse then a lot of leading vapes on the market.

I could see the bowl door possibly breaking off if you dropped it and I do worry a bit about the hinge on the starting mechanism but it doesn't feel so cheap you should be overly worried about it.

If you are then look at the MFLB where they replace it even due to your negligence!

@trevorzamani they just said next week...

@NickDlow never tried it without the lid. It will have to wait til tomorrow for me. I am set for tonight and gotta get up early tomorrow so nighty night to all.....

 

[215z]

@scottg402 I have multiple MFLB's, used to carry them all with me loaded, along with at least eight Enerloop cells... I can not get through the day with just one MFLB unless I stop and reload, which has become too difficult for me. Hot swap cans sounds amazing in comparison!

And yes, MF replaced the LBs whenever I dropped them shattering the acrylic cover.

 

[trevorzamani]

Indeed this is excellent news! Thank you for sharing with us their informative answer. Now we can discuss temperature control and settings.

Before I start, it just struck me that the Indica vaporizer went into the same adjustment process when they got massive feedback from us FC'ers (if you read the first dozen of pages it's quite obvious how fast it happened) But ok at least the high setting on this one seems to be good plus there's the patent pending heat exchange thingie that can't combust (btw I never was able to combust with the Ascent so far, but I have to test it in a desert at noon under a clear sky, who knows?!)

So why would people need more than 3 settings that's the question? I don't know why he side-tracked the discussion around precise temperature display, because that's not the point. Besides, don't get me started on temperature regulation or I'll summon @Hippie Dickie who will explain you better than me how he was able to maintain a steady set point with less than +/-5°F deviation (and even better in the latest iteration if I'm correct)

We know that the display is just an indicator, but when I say that I can do 7 usable temperature levels on a single bowl with the Ascent, I really mean it. I don't care what actual temperature it is, but I do know that each level will yield a certain amount of hits, with clearly a different taste each time, until it's depleted. I'm not even talking about chemical compounds boiling temps here, just that it's able to regulate its temp well enough to give 7 different experiences with the same load. And it could do even more levels of course, but they would be shorter and well at some point it's hmm pointless.

So that's the first argument. The second is precisely to account for parameters variation: wheather (if he says that can have such a drastic effect, the more options you have the more you are able to cope with), material dryness, and above all: the strain you use! How can this be overlooked?!

"Excuse me but our supercomputer made a super average of all scientific articles about mmj vaporization temperatures and decided that 3 usable settings would fit 90% of all average use cases"

Well no, I beg to differ, call me a vapor snob (but I'm rather a taste addict), but if I tell you that I can feel the difference between two different set temps 5°C appart and that I do adjust my temps to suit every strain (like this sat hybrid for instance that has very delicate menthol-like aromas that are completely overwhelmed by the fuely/chemical aromas when starting directly too high...)

I understand most people would be perfectly happy with these 3 settings, not every one wants to have options. My gf enjoys her FlowerMate a lot and it has a single setting, but she's only a casual user. For my part having these options is essential to my vaping experience. I can go pretty fast and do only two levels for short sessions, or let it last and last and last forever (not good for the poor batteries though...)

Everybody loves options which i agree but also priorities are different and as important. I may not care about or even notice the taste difference between 5F temp change and it is not a priority for me but i care about the fact that i now can pack 10 cans of herb and 10 cans of wax, drop them in my chamber out and about. Not worry about a thing for two days. Swap the batteries and keep on rolling...At home, at a concert, at camping, at fireworks show wherever. Share the unit with buddies, the same dab for many hits...i never had a chance to do this with neither DaVinci nor with my Pax. I have had this unit for less than a week and it already changed the way i do things. So that is choice and priorities. If they build a nice LCD display and add 25 heat settings to it, will i enjoy it better? If it works exactly how it is now, i bet i will. It does not mean that other people's priorities are less important but its choice and life style.

 

[llamaman001]

Nothing to see here, posted info people have already talked about.

 

[scottg402]

Everybody loves options which i agree but also priorities are different and as important. I may not care about or even notice the taste difference between 5F temp change and it is not a priority for me but i care about the fact that i now can pack 10 cans of herb and 10 cans of wax, drop them in my chamber out and about. Not worry about a thing for two days. Swap the batteries and keep on rolling...At home, at a concert, at camping, at fireworks show wherever. Share the unit with buddies, the same dab for many hits...i never had a chance to do this with neither DaVinci nor with my Pax. I have had this unit for less than a week and it already changed the way i do things. So that is choice and priorities. If they build a nice LCD display and add 25 heat settings to it, will i enjoy it better? If it works exactly how it is now, i bet i will. It does not mean that other people's priorities are less important but its choice and life style.

Couldn't have said it better!

 

[Stu]

Yes it is convection method since your herb has no direct contact with the direct heat source.

This is not true. Convection means the material is being heated by hot air directly. Not via a secondary method such as a heated can.

 

[KeroZen]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not critical here and just trying to give my feedback on what I think is a promising vaporizer. In fact I would prefer if they spared the LCD altogether, more LEDs would do. Keep the complexity as low as possible.

But adding more temp settings would definitely help suit more people's needs better. Please have them read the first dozen of pages of the Indica vaporizer thread and see what people requested and what they ended with, I'm very glad they responded to our feedback and their product was really improved.

I'm not asking for arbitrary temperature setting, just more presets.

 

[NickDlow]

This is not true. Convection means the material is being heated by hot air directly. Not via a secondary method such as a heated can.

They said in the email the hot air passed through the can and herbs. If I'm not mistaken.

 

[Stu]

They said in the email the hot air passed through the can and herbs. If I'm not mistaken.

From the pictures I've seen, I don't see a screen to allow for airflow. I'd love to see a better picture, so please correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

[trevorzamani]

I a

Don't get me wrong, I'm not critical here and just trying to give my feedback on what I think is a promising vaporizer. In fact I would prefer if they spared the LCD altogether, more LEDs would do. Keep the complexity as low as possible.

But adding more temp settings would definitely help suit more people's needs better. Please have them read the first dozen of pages of the Indica vaporizer thread and see what people requested and what they ended with, I'm very glad they responded to our feedback and their product was really improved.

I'm not asking for arbitrary temperature setting, just more presets.

i agree with this. It would cover more of the crowd for sure. I was just trying to point out that everyone's priorities are different and it is difficult to please everyone. If they had more settings, i almost bet you that we would see posts here asking:" what happened to simplicity?" . We can discuss when/if they join here i guess.

 

[KeroZen]

@NickDlow : But is the can too hot to handle after use? If you can't touch it without burning your fingers, it sure must be cooking the load with a lot of conduction.

I also realized to my surprise that nobody asked (unless I missed it) the notorious here on FC and mandatory, obligatory question: what are the actual air and vapor paths made of? At least we have some silicone in there, same as with the Ascent: I wish they could have avoided it some way or another, but it's handy to use...

@trevorzamani : so you really would be against, say two or three extra temp settings?

 

[cawshook]

From the pictures I've seen, I don't see a screen to allow for airflow. I'd love to see a better picture, so please correct me if I'm mistaken.

Yeah I'm thinking its like a toaster oven with the screen.

 

[NickDlow]

I believe the airflow come through the two holes in the chamber itself

 

[trevorzamani]

@NickDlow : But is the can too hot to handle after use? If you can't touch it without burning your fingers, it sure must be cooking the load with a lot of conduction.

I also realized to my surprise that nobody asked (unless I missed it) the notorious here on FC and mandatory, obligatory question: what are the actual air and vapor paths made of? At least we have some silicone in there, same as with the Ascent: I wish they could have avoided it some way or another, but it's handy to use...

@trevorzamani : so you really would be against, say two or three extra temp settings?

The air path looks stainless steel in my unit. @KeroZen: I am not against any improvement that will make more people happy. Please dont get me wrong. I do not disagree with you. From what I read and see online, Haze folks seem like they care about opinions, feedback etc. They even worked with several focus groups prior to their release from all segments (which I was told by the people who were working at their booth at Cannabis Cup in Denver last April). In summary: I really hope that they will not screw up this product while trying to make everybody happy since I am hooked to this one so bad

 

[KeroZen]

Thanksfully it's mostly just a matter of updating the software, and LEDs are cheap! (ok there is way more to it, but it shouldn't jeopardize the whole thing hehe)

 

[Stu]

Here are some pictures that @NickDlow sent me.

It looks to me like these have 2 holes on either side with no screen. Is that correct or am I seeing things?