Having a rough time taking a break.

[lazylathe]

Do you think you are physically or mentally addicted to cannabis? Those are some nasty withdrawal effects — is the herb it worth it?

If i had to label what i go through i would say it is a habit and i do not think i am addicted to it in any way, habit meaning something i have conditioned myself to do.

Usually when i get home i think about vaping to relax and ease the days pain and head to my room and medicate. Breaking this routine is fairly easy for me and i can lower my tolerance quickly and without any sever consequences.

I will also do this before going on vacation and have no ill effects not having the herb for a couple of weeks.
Last time i went home i was there for 3 weeks and had no herb, did not even taper off as it was an emergency and i had to leave ASAP.

So am i "addicted"?
No, i do not believe so because i can stop if i have to.
I just choose to not stop.
Too much of a good thing can turn it into a bad thing, for me moderation is key and human nature sometimes tends to abuse good things!
The important part is to know when you are abusing a substance and then take the necessary steps to correct the situation!

 

[flickyourbic]

I'm sorry if I offend but I'm not sure WTF is going on in this thread. I have vaped a few times a day, every day since 2010. Prior to that I smoked a few times a day for 15 years, every day. This covers over half my life. Now I just said every day but that's not exactly true. I have taken a week or two off here and there over the years for travel, and for other reasons. I've never experienced any withdrawal whatsoever? Just some minor irritability and the annoying thought that I can't partake, but I find that this is easily dismissed. Whenever I take a break I just consider that it is always going to be there whenever I decide to come back. Last time I left the country I was gone for 10 days and didn't even think about it. I don't know anybody who has experienced withdrawal from cannabis cessation. why is my experience so different?

EDIT: sorry, just realized my post is rather selfish and not helpful

Your story is much different than others. I for one have NOT stopped a solid 24-hours in the last 5 years. You said yourself you took weeks off since 2010. Not only that but everyone reacts differently to the drug and its potential withdrawals.

As I said earlier I feel like dabs really help you cut back. I used to smoke multiple bowls every night right before bed. I haven't been doing that for months and I've been sleeping like utter shit ever since then. I just keep hoping I can eventually sleep at night without the need to smoke a ton of weed before hand. The dabs don't seem to help at all for sleeping like the flowers used to.

 

[kimura]

I used cannabis daily for over 15 years before I realized that I was using it to treat anxiety, IBS (tied to anxiety) and insomnia (also tied to anxiety). I believe that most chronic users like myself are using cannabis therapeutically, if not medically, whether they realize it or not. and for years I thought I just really enjoyed it more than most people... I still think that but I now recognize that there is another purpose being accomplished here by my devious little brain.

my anxiety + IBS + insomnia is still relatively mild compared to many but I can totally see how someone with a more severe case or condition could have a terrible time giving up their medication regimen

 

[Chill Dude]

I used cannabis daily for over 15 years before I realized that I was using it to treat anxiety, IBS (tied to anxiety) and insomnia (also tied to anxiety). I believe that most chronic users like myself are using cannabis therapeutically, if not medically, whether they realize it or not. and for years I thought I just really enjoyed it more than most people... I still think that but I now recognize that there is another purpose being accomplished here by my devious little brain.

my anxiety + IBS + insomnia is still relatively mild compared to many but I can totally see how someone with a more severe case or condition could have a terrible time giving up their medication regimen

Well stated Kimura. Like you, I use cannabis medically for a variety of relatively minor ailments. I find weed very helpful for anxiety, depression, insomnia and a severely arthritic shoulder. That said...every once in a while I just want to get high as a motherfucker Hahahaha. So...I guess I'm kind of a quasi medical user. Who say you can't enjoy your meds??

 

[lwien]

It is because of overindulgence that people struggle with cannabis cessation.

Ummm...........it's not only that. Some people are just more sensitive to cannabis than others and for them, cessation can be a bit of problem even if they don't overindulge.

 

[Chill Dude]

I think you're pretty much right Stema. It only makes sense that the longer the duration of use combined with the amount of daily consumption would be directly related to how ingrained the habit is. Wouldn't it be easier to kick a 5 cigarette per day 1 year habit as compared to a two pack a day 25 year habit? That said, Iwein does have a point that there could be maybe a very small percentage of light users who are sensitive to cannabis and have trouble quitting. However, for the vast majority quitting cannabis for a bit is not much of a problem.

I think you would be hard pressed to find occasional or light to moderate daily users who suffer major withdrawal like Biohacker experiences... No sleep, chills, night sweats and intense feelings of discomfort. I'd further argue, that even among heavy users like Biohacker(2 grams + daily), intense withdrawal symptoms that last more than one or two weeks are extremely rare. There have been many studies on this and even with the heaviest users anything more than short lived mild symptoms from cessation of cannabis are very rare indeed.

 

[cybrguy]

I find it useful to remind myself periodically that all we really are are chemical/biological machines, all with slightly different chemistry and biology. It is perfectly natural to respond differently to the addition of different chemicals (external chemicals/substances like cleaning solutions and other environmental contaminants) or medications and food products. If we respond differently to pollen mold and dust, why wouldn't we also respond differently to things we intentionally consume?

I find it is nearly always a mistake to assume everyone will respond the same way to anything, physical emotional or mental.

 

[Sapios]

For me, changing environment and daily routine (vacation, business trip etc) makes it super easy to take a break. Back at home is where it gets tough..
Perhaps that means I have to run away and never look back..

 

[grokit]

It can also just be in our perception or "our head" that we feel that we need it/be addicted. When I was younger I remember feeling that I always had to have it or I couldn't function properly or get to sleep at night. Now I realize that I may not sleep at all the first few nights, but then I will catch up to some extent, even if I will catch up more when I have mj again. I may take an extra opiate when I'm dry (usually just an extra 1/2) but I know the futility of that path, it's not for me. It's all about making adjustments imho.

 

[NorVape]

Yeah, I have the same experience @Sapios ...

When I want a break, I make sure I'm exhausted every night. Work hard, go into the mountains (or whatever nature you have), lots of sex, read stuff, work out, do the things you were supposed to do but haven't yet.

This will make it easier to eat, sleep, relax... etc.

Good luck

 

[lauz]

Just tried my new pinnacle pro after a 7 week tolerance break, it felt so good! Ive probably had about 0.1 - 0.2g this afternoon and felt the highest I have in a long time. If I can keep my tolerance down I aim to go through about a quarter a month.

The tolerance breaks after definitely worth it!

 

[CentiZen]

Addiction is a word that has become conflated with anything from a harmless compulsion to life debilitating condition; and everyone has their own definition of the word somewhere on that spectrum. But the literal definition of addiction applies to myself and many, many other people I know who partake in the herb - FC'ers included. Because it is such a stigmatized word, many people refuse to even consider what that means and react defensively to the term; as if it is totally impossible for someone to want to partake in pot despite adverse consequences. This absolutely needs to stop if we are going to be able to have a proper discussion about this.

The truth is, lots of people are addicted to weed - and it can't be boiled down to just one root cause. Overgeneralizing the situation, like blaming it on overconsumption not only minimizes the very real struggles people may be going through; it neglects all of the other possibilities that could be affecting the situation. There is no place for this in a thread where people are seeking help for their issues.

Over the past few months I have been totally abstaining from the use of pot during the week. This is coming from 5 years of constant daily consumption and it has been fucking difficult. After five years of convincing myself that marijuana addiction wasn't even a possibility and ridiculing anyone who said otherwise I have had real struggles keeping sober during the week. I have had to hide all of my vaporizers and paraphernalia because if I see anything related to them that's the only thing I can think about for hours. I have to finish or get rid of all my herb before the week starts to prevent myself from being tempted. And even with all that, I fiend for it every night.

Now who or what is to blame for this? I have no problem admitting that it's my own addictive personality - not the herb that is causing this. I have no doubt there are many people out there who don't suffer an addictive personality, and to them I am jealous. But it's still an addiction, and it's still a problem for me, and whenever I see someone try to say that my problem does not exist I am deflated. Even if the word addiction is applied to far more heinous situations than my own, it's still the word that defines it.

For anyone else who feels they are addicted to marijuana feel free to contact me if you want to talk one on one. My main resource during these last few months has been the subreddit /r/leaves which is a wonderfully supportive community of /r/trees members and ex-members who want to help other people return to a more health relationship with the herb.

 

[flickyourbic]

Ever since I got my new oil rig, the infamous D020 I have been getting significantly higher off my dabs. I've also been working like crazy and only do a dab or two in the mornings before going in.. But this was 2 grams one last wednesday and one saturday. Typically in the past this would have been almost gone tonight or finished up in the morning. (I only buy shatter on weds/sat/sun because it's 50% off) so I don't know how but I've cut back significantly and I'm enjoying my medicine quite a bit more now I feel like. I was already cutting back when I had my old rig but I was buying all three days of the week at $27 a gram and lately I've been going just 2 days a week and still having leftovers.

As I mentioned earlier before I was exclusively dabbing, I was combusting about a half ounce a week at $75-100 and it was getting shitty.



Left is LA OG and the right is an indica mix. I LOVEEEE LOVE LOVE the sap that Green Dot labs puts out. Left is sappy right is shattery the sap is where it's at.

 

[Chill Dude]

The dabs don't seem to help at all for sleeping like the flowers used to.

For me a couple dabs of good indica shatter will put me in a coma and I sleep like a baby. For me dabs are better for sleep probably due to the very high THC level consumed in a very short period of time.

 

[grokit]

Over the past few months I have been totally abstaining from the use of pot during the week.

Do you find yourself using other substances more during the week, like alcohol or pills?

 

[lwien]

As far as addiction goes the word is conflated in all directions.

I define addiction as when you continue to use something even when you KNOW that it is negatively affecting your health and/or your life.................and it matters not what that "something" is.

 

[Magic9]

The DSM-IV summary of addiction is "addiction is the compulsive use of a substance despite ongoing negative consequences, which may lead to tolerance or withdrawal symptoms when the substance is stopped". The DSM-V has some changes, but still the same concept with behaviors thrown in.
http://www.dsm5.org/Documents/Substance Use Disorder Fact Sheet.pdf

Any pleasure seeking behavior can be considered addictive. From drugs, sex, food, gambling, internet, etc,. Some physiological, some psychological, often both. Carrots too.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8902181

So yes, by definition, one can be addicted to cannabis. The sticking point is whether or not it is a physical addiction. It is not. It remains in your system and slowly metabolizes out over an amount of time. So those "withdrawal" symptoms suck, but are not exactly "withdrawal" symptoms.

(I am not trying to minimize others experience. I myself have a diminished appetite for a few days and trouble sleeping when I stop , although those problems preceded my usage.)

http://healthland.time.com/2010/10/19/is-marijuana-addictive-it-depends-how-you-define-addiction/

 

[lwien]

By my definition, you could be addicted to anything:

Drugs
Another person (relationships)
Food
Computers
Video Games
Gambling
Sex
Porn
etc, etc, etc......

They all, more or less, affect the same reward center in our brains.

This whole idea of mental addiction versus physical addiction, to me, means diddly squat simply because mental addiction withdrawals can manifest itself just as much physically as physical addictions. Now granted, some physical addiction withdrawals can be very dangerous but I guarantee you that there are those that have committed suicide from mental addiction withdrawals or from the guilt that they couldn't quit whatever they were addicted to and THAT is the most dangerous withdrawal symptom of all.

 

[Magic9]

Again, I don't want to minimize anyones experience. Addiction of any type is serious.

But...

mental addiction withdrawals can manifest itself just as much physically as physical addictions

http://www.livescience.com/15300-alcohol-withdrawal-death.html

You don't see this with mental addictions.

I guarantee you that there are those that have committed suicide from mental addiction withdrawals or from the guilt that they couldn't quit whatever they were addicted to and THAT is the most dangerous withdrawal symptom of all.

Agreed, and the main reason we need to treat addiction as a mental health issue instead of a criminal one.

 

[lwien]

......we need to treat addiction as a mental health issue instead of a criminal one.

Hell, we have a hard time getting treatments provided for ANY mental heath issue, be it addiction or anything else. Taking it from a criminal action to a mental health action is just part of a MUCH bigger problem.

But yeah, our prisons are our modern day psychiatric institutions and THAT needs to change.

 

[NorVape]

This thread is reminding me I really need a t-break to get back to the high I really enjoy. I hate it when having a toke is like having a cig used to be (or snus, rather, I'm Scandinavian hehe), something one does habitually just to calm down and relax.

Maybe next week? If I manage to get my self to do it, I will report back to this thread and see how it goes. Since January 2011 I haven't had a T-break for more than a working week, while traveling abroad. That went fine, but that's something completely different than taking a break and making it work in my everyday life.

Before my three week t-break in January 2011 I hadn't been of the canna since maybe a week in 2005.

What I'm trying to say is - I'm a good candidate for a t-break Guinea Pig

How long do people need to take a break to lower tolerance levels? If I remember correctly that goes quite fast?

Would be cool if this thread could be a source for everything t-break related, from links to scientific stuff to personal experiences, helpful advice and so forth. The way most of us found this board was because we were searching for info, so let's keep filling it with knowledge

 

[lwien]

How long do people need to take a break to lower tolerance levels? If I remember correctly that goes quite fast?

I believe tolerance levels begin to lower in just one day of abstinence but of course, the realization of that lowered tolerance has a lot to do with previous consumption levels. For me, I notice a decrease in tolerance within 2 days of taking a T-break.

 

[c0rpse]

Man this thread really took off. I'm gonna have to go back and read the last two pages.

The day after I started this thread was when the real symptoms started. Intense stomach pain and really bad diarrhea. This lasted about two days and was terrible. I also tried having a beer one night. The stomach cramps and gas I got were horrendous. All in all I made it 6 days without consuming. Mentally I feel about the same, but physically I feel better.

Lately i've been hanging out with people who don't smoke. I noticed that after about 6 hours I would start feeling sick. That's what prompted me to take this brake. Now that I can go 24 hours without feeling bad, I don't want to revert.

On my first day back I smoked two bowls, and it was great! I told my self I wouldn't smoke the next day, but I ended up being really productive and wanted to reward myself. Another really great session! Later I felt bad for not sticking to my plan, so I didn't smoke at all yesterday. This was tough. Its the first time i've had to push it away since I was sick (dope sick). I'm proud of my self for pushing through it, and I'm proving that I do have self control. I'm not sure if I will smoke tonight.

I am still trying to figure out how to determine when it is and isn't appropriate, but I'm getting there. It's tough because I don't have a lot of responsibilities so It's not always obvious when I should and shouldn't smoke. Thanks for the responses and support guys. This ended up being a bit crazier than I was expecting.

 

[RUDE BOY]

Very interesting definition @lwien . Addiction once meant a person could not stop using a substance without serious risk to one's physical health and life. The opiates put addiction on the map. Opiate withdrawal can potentially kill a person. I guess this version of addiction could be called a 'pre-drug war addiction' definition. It is interesting how the word's meaning has developed over time to be so broad and all encompassing as it is today.

I have had relationships with substances that negatively affected my health and my life quite intensely. For me, it is because I had relationships of over-use and abuse with substances that forced me to quit. Looking back, it was very difficult at times, and yet for me, personally, I do not feel or believe I was ever truly addicted to a substance. As in truly helpless and could not quit without outside intervention and help. It doesn't have to be called an addiction because it is negatively affecting your health and/or your life in a big way. My definition of addiction is probably wrong for most people — but as long as I'm not totally helpless to a substance.

Just the same, the beauty of the word addiction has became a lot like FUCK. You can use it in so many interesting ways.

Them fucked up New age touchie feelie hippy dippy Treatment center type 'almost' or 'wanna-be' Doctors called psychologists ( dr phil , dr drew. etc etc) changed the meaning in the late 70's (started earlier with AA and Hazleden literature)

Before that addiction was a physically terminal condition not just a compulsion or weak mindedness like it is now. I worked a few years in a detox center and we dealt with real Addiction where people actually did die on a regular basis, some hardcore shit.

Now that addiction only means mental compulsion or weakness more often then not, everyone becomes a fucking addict sometime in their life.

Edit; Hi I'm Rude and I'm addicted to posting on FC.

 

[lwien]

Yeah, the term "addiction" definitely has a wider net than in the past, but I don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing.

But I think this goes further than just a sociological affect. Through the advancement of MRI brain scans, we now know that a compulsion to video games, as an example, affects the same reward portion of the brain that heroine does.

I guess the question is, should addiction be defined by the severity of withdrawal symptoms or should it be defined as how a repeated pattern can negatively affect ones life and yet, the pattern continues.