Farid

Well-Known Member
Besided the general industry reserch others have mentioned, I'd do serious research into 2 specific vapes:

The Haze square and the Grasshopper.

Your idea is similar to both, and both failed in major ways.

Grasshopper failed in part because the design was prone to failure. The device overheated because of trying to fit everything into a tiny pen sized package.

The Haze square had a very similar rotating/revolver design to what you describe. Its' failures caused an otherwise successful vape company to go under.

Something to also consider is that ideas are a dime a dozen. There are a lot of patent lawyers out there who will happily take your money, but often it doesn't protect much, especially at this early stage. Likewise there are very few people who will invest in a idea alone. Hell, there are some very successful proven vapes who have attempted to sell, and failed to find a buyer.
 

Zipford

Well-Known Member
Lot's of good input already, I would just add that if you search there are a few threads where people have asked "what would be your perfect vape" and gotten tons of feedback. You won't please everyone, but you may find some common desires.

Also, being able to vape different substances isn't really a revolutionary idea, and some folks won't have any use for that (i.e. they don't use nicotine or they only vape either flower or concentrates). And most people seek a vape that does the one thing they like really well, and you'll be up against that. For example, I'd rather have a great wax pen and a Tinymight over one vape that does both, but not as well as either separate vape does alone. Said differently, if your vape handles flower but not as well as a top tier flower vape, you might not have much of a market. So I would prioritize vape quality over being able to vape two or three things.

Good Luck!
 

Gyre

Gyre
Manufacturer
I guess my question comes down to “what do you actually have?”. Has your patent been granted, or simply applied for? If it’s the latter, I’d want to know what separates your device from previous lackluster all-in-ones.

Like, for the dry herb functionality, what other dry herb vapes do you have experience with, and do you feel that your prototype outperforms those reference vapes? Same question goes for wax.

Basically, this isn’t a new idea (Chinese vape manufacturers love the all in one idea), it’s one with a long history of failures. If you haven’t reckoned with that history, you’re setting yourself up to repeat it.
I got the non-provisional patent (granted). What separates mine from the previous lackluster all-in-ones aside from the beautiful design is the functionality. No handheld vaporizer on the market has ever achieved 3 rotating chambers (cowboys dream) for one. Its intended purpose is to house all kinds of different substances. I still got to work out some bugs as what kind of coils, atomizers, materials, and making the battery interchangeable since that's the feedback I got on this forum. But that'll be an easy fix and once that's done it'll be the most unique vape anyone has ever experienced. I like to think of it as a fidget spinner lol, people love spinning the chamber.

Addressing your question about what other dry herb vapes I have experience with I stated already in a previous post reply. But i'll tell you anyways, I have used the Pax, Cloud vapes, Gpen, Yocan, and other brands I cant think off right now. Also stated in the previous replies as of now the answer is no it cant outperform but only due to the fact that it isnt perfected yet. But once I make all the needed adjustments (which isnt much) itll blow them out of the water without a doubt. It just comes down to proper materials and knowledge of circuitry, since the design itself is pretty solid. The only thing needed for wax would be choosing the proper atomizer material.

I'm not claiming I invented the wheel, im just perfecting it. There are other vaporizers such as the Haze, and the Focus V Aero but they didnt do so well because of their design and bulkiness, mine is sleek and modern. I am going to focus however on quality of the vape to deliver a successful product. Regardless, I thank you for your feedback

Besided the general industry reserch others have mentioned, I'd do serious research into 2 specific vapes:

The Haze square and the Grasshopper.

Your idea is similar to both, and both failed in major ways.

Grasshopper failed in part because the design was prone to failure. The device overheated because of trying to fit everything into a tiny pen sized package.

The Haze square had a very similar rotating/revolver design to what you describe. Its' failures caused an otherwise successful vape company to go under.

Something to also consider is that ideas are a dime a dozen. There are a lot of patent lawyers out there who will happily take your money, but often it doesn't protect much, especially at this early stage. Likewise there are very few people who will invest in a idea alone. Hell, there are some very successful proven vapes who have attempted to sell, and failed to find a buyer.
Good thing mines bigger than the grasshopper but smaller than the Haze then lol gives me room to work with. Youre right about those attorneys lol and not just for vapes but many products in the world will fail. But one will never know if they do not try, I dont assume someone will not copy my idea and do it differently its healthy to have competition. All I can do is have a good solid business plan along with a great marketing campaign.

Lot's of good input already, I would just add that if you search there are a few threads where people have asked "what would be your perfect vape" and gotten tons of feedback. You won't please everyone, but you may find some common desires.

Also, being able to vape different substances isn't really a revolutionary idea, and some folks won't have any use for that (i.e. they don't use nicotine or they only vape either flower or concentrates). And most people seek a vape that does the one thing they like really well, and you'll be up against that. For example, I'd rather have a great wax pen and a Tinymight over one vape that does both, but not as well as either separate vape does alone. Said differently, if your vape handles flower but not as well as a top tier flower vape, you might not have much of a market. So I would prioritize vape quality over being able to vape two or three things.

Good Luck!
Yea this forum has been great and supportive and even the negative nancies are appreciated. Ill make sure to look at those threads as well. This vape you can choose to put all 3 dry herb or mix and match doesnt have to be a specific way. I agree on the quality aspect thats very important to us.
 
Gyre,

GoldenBud

Well-Known Member
his vape you can choose to put all 3 dry herb or mix and match doesnt have to be a specific way.
how can you vape tobacco? it's not fully dry herb like weed, it will be gross! nobody will use it, people have tried it before
 
GoldenBud,
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Gyre

Gyre
Manufacturer
how can you vape tobacco? it's not fully dry herb like weed, it will be gross! nobody will use it, people have tried it before
Although tobacco can be vaped its primary intention isnt for that, its for herb. I agree ive trried tobacco in vape its gross (I just dont like cigs)
 
Gyre,

GoldenBud

Well-Known Member
Although tobacco can be vaped its primary intention isnt for that, its for herb. I agree ive trried tobacco in vape its gross (I just dont like cigs)
according to the design in page 1, if the heater is now hot, how the user can eliminate touching it? like, this is a metal tube or so? it will be hot
 
GoldenBud,

Farid

Well-Known Member
What separates mine from the previous lackluster all-in-ones aside from the beautiful design is the functionality. No handheld vaporizer on the market has ever achieved 3 rotating chambers (cowboys dream) for one. Its intended purpose is to house all kinds of different substances. I still got to work out some bugs as what kind of coils, atomizers, materials, and making the battery interchangeable since that's the feedback I got on this forum. But that'll be an easy fix and once that's done it'll be the most unique vape anyone has ever experienced. I like to think of it as a fidget spinner lol, people love spinning the chamber.
....

There are other vaporizers such as the Haze, and the Focus V Aero but they didnt do so well because of their design and bulkiness, mine is sleek and modern.

Haze actually made a working product, and it didn't fail because of bulkiness.

The fact that you're trying to design the heater after the fact is a big problem. It's not something you can just jam into the footprint you want (this touches on grasshoppers failures). The heater is the meat of the device, not an afterthought.

To step back a bit to your OP about investors, why should an investor believe this is any different? What makes your idea stand out? So far everything you've mentioned has been tried by other companies to varying degrees of success.
 
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staircase slight of hand

Well-Known Member
@Gyre, what are you envisioning as a price-point (or price range)? I think that info might help us calibrate our responses.

As you’ve noticed, you’ve got an audience here with a lot of experience and a lot of opinions, and when you say things like “I’m not claiming I invented the wheel, I’m just perfecting it” it’s going to go two directions: some will take you and your intent seriously, and some will find it sort of charmingly naive.

So, for the sake of clarity in this discussion: are you truly aiming to perfect a multi-medium vape that surpasses all expectations, or are you aiming for a mass-market implementation of your concept that is good enough? I suspect that your imagined price-point will provide the answer.

Edit to add: looking back at your prototype photos*, I’m not really understanding how this could work. Like, which part is doing the revolving? Could we get some pics of it opened up, or even just a sketch of the revolving mechanism (the illustration from your patent would be perfect)? Or just a verbal narrative of how it would work? The more I look at your pics, the less sense it makes.

*or renders? It’s hard to tell what I’m looking at.
 
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nasdri253

Well-Known Member
I am sorry to be negative but you clearly sound to me you have too little experience with vaping in general. This is to me the biggest problem, you are ignoring the issues many of us have experienced and i am honest i have to admit i am surprised by the kindness and time members have dedicated to you because you do not really sound you have a clear idea of what you are doing. You have designed only so far, you just need to solve the minor issues like picking the right coils and heating elements like if these were irrelevant details.
And speaking about the design i am not impressed, this thing will get super hot, will taste like silicon and if it will manage to perform as the Pax does it will be a success. The fact you are based in Florida means very little to me, i will be more interested to know where you would be manufacturing
I am not trying to be…sorry nothing personal, but i would get some study and experience first and them once you have a better picture you can start all over again, i see there you have enthusiasm to sell and this is good. Peace.
 

Abysmal Vapor

Supersniffer 2000 - robot fart detection device
What separates mine from the previous lackluster all-in-ones aside from the beautiful design is the functionality. No handheld vaporizer on the market has ever achieved 3 rotating chambers (cowboys dream) for one. Its intended purpose is to house all kinds of different substances.
I doubt there are that many users ,who vape concentrates,herb and e-liquid . Most people i know are herb/concentrates or just herb. E-liquid is not that popular with the herb vaping crowd ,so maybe it wont be used too much .
Could you put 3 x herb chambers and rotate them or is each one dedicated to a certain material ?
Are the chambers changeable ?
 

GoldenBud

Well-Known Member
I am sorry to be negative but you clearly sound to me you have too little experience with vaping in general. This is to me the biggest problem, you are ignoring the issues many of us have experienced and i am honest i have to admit i am surprised by the kindness and time members have dedicated to you because you do not really sound you have a clear idea of what you are doing.
spot on
in our days, it's more important to know what's in the market already, we're not in 2002 anymore, when you could "improve the wheel" without knowing your competitors :lol:
 

feralcomprehension

Qualified Observer
I am sorry to be negative but you clearly sound to me you have too little experience with vaping in general. This is to me the biggest problem, you are ignoring the issues many of us have experienced and i am honest i have to admit i am surprised by the kindness and time members have dedicated to you because you do not really sound you have a clear idea of what you are doing. You have designed only so far, you just need to solve the minor issues like picking the right coils and heating elements like if these were irrelevant details.
And speaking about the design i am not impressed, this thing will get super hot, will taste like silicon and if it will manage to perform as the Pax does it will be a success. The fact you are based in Florida means very little to me, i will be more interested to know where you would be manufacturing
I am not trying to be…sorry nothing personal, but i would get some study and experience first and them once you have a better picture you can start all over again, i see there you have enthusiasm to sell and this is good. Peace.
This. Spend a year benchmarking and we'll talk; as it is you don't have the experience necessary to squarely meet the needs of the experienced, particular, and demanding audience you've engaged with here.
 

cx714

Space Invader
It’s also been stated a bunch of times, but your benchmark vapes aren’t that good… and you admit yours isn’t even at that level yet.

You’ve been given good advice: spend some of your development money on the vapes people here bang on about. See for yourself how far you’d have to go to get taken more seriously.

Also, stop thinking marketing is key and that fundamental considerations like “coils, atomisers, materials” are “bugs.” Talking up smoke and mirrors over vapor quality on an enthusiast forum is unwise… and personally makes me question your marketing chops as well.

So far, all I see is a fidget spinner for people with oral fixations. Classic solution in need of a problem.
 

RxPlorer

Well-Known Member
I'm really surprised y'all have given so much time and energy to this. A very generous bunch that a smart maker would be lucky to engage with.

I dont assume someone will not copy my idea
you really have nothing to worry about there.

All I can do is have a good solid business plan along with a great marketing campaign.
Ya may want to pivot to Crypto, I think you've got the chops. Maybe some "cowboys dream" NFTs!
 
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KeroZen

Chronic vapaholic
The reality check was probably a bit harsh, but losing several years of your time and all your spare money is even harsher.

The vape market is quite mature and very unforgiving. We sadly have many examples of companies that had a good product, and at the right time on top of that, yet failed to turn any real profit and bailed out. So it's really difficult to succeed and survive more than a few years, even when the odds are on your side. You just have to look at all the threads having the "discontinued" tag in their title to get an idea of the size of the problem: most of these vapes are not gone because they were obsolete or replaced by another product.

At this point, either Gyre Vapes have a working PoC to show and prove us all wrong soon, or I would recommend them to do more extensive market research and get back to the drawing board.

:2c:
 

Vaporware

Well-Known Member
I hope this isn’t all too discouraging…if you truly believe in your idea I wouldn’t give up on it just because there’s more work to be done, but you absolutely should look more at the companies and devices that have come and gone before as well as what the best/most used and recommended stuff out there is right now.

I’ve worked on some designs myself, and some of them even include multi-chamber designs. Not exactly like yours since I have no interest in nicotine juice and concentrates would be secondary for me, but neither of us is the first to try multiple chambers and by themselves they haven’t been enough to make or break a product.

I haven’t produced anything because I don’t have the money or knowledge to design the electronics I’d need and make a functional prototype. I am also concerned that while the potential market is huge the actual market is not yet, so even if you or I design something amazing it may not be successful.

I also want to add to the caution on materials. Yes many mass-produced vaporizers use materials like silicone in the air/vapor path, but they do affect the flavor especially when they’re dirty (which is likely every time after the first time they’re used).

I also worry a bit about what might be coming off of materials like that and straight into my lungs over many uses…this may not be a well founded concern in this case, but in general it is a good thing to consider.

I really don’t know whether the average person would notice or care about your material choices, whether or not their current preference for smoking has much to do with the bad flavor that comes from dirty silicone and other common materials, but you should know that most people around here have a strong preference for glass, metal, ceramic and other materials that they can’t taste by themselves and that can be thoroughly cleaned.

If you move forward with this project I really do wish you luck and hope to see you release something great, and if you’re in the middle of giving up on a dream you’ve put a lot of work into because you’re no longer confident in it, I’m sorry.

I hope you do a bit more research before you make a final decision, but I’d hate to see you waste years and bankrupt yourself chasing a design that may not be up to par yet in a market where some excellent designs haven’t been enough to keep the companies producing them afloat.

I’d also hate to see you give up if you’re close to producing something great, but I think you’ll have to take a step back and compare what you have and what you can do with it to what else is out there before you’ll know for sure where you stand.

Whichever way you go, good luck. :)
 

RxPlorer

Well-Known Member
Well he's already got "an investor" if I understood correctly. Last thing he's going to want is to let this thread keep going, and potentially draw some unwanted attention to it. Disregard the errant snark, it wasn't too kind anyhow. Apologies
 
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RxPlorer,

staircase slight of hand

Well-Known Member
staircase slight of hand,

Zipford

Well-Known Member
I agree 100% with Vaporware about silicone in the air path, it takes on a smoky taste that is very hard to get rid of without replacing the silicone. I also agree it makes sense to take a hard look at current successful vapes and consider how your device would compete with them. And also (as I said before) to look at threads where people here have said what they would want in a dream vape. I don't think I've ever seen multiple chambers as something people want. Which isn't to say multiple chambers would be a dealbreaker, but you really need to check the other boxes first.
 

Siebter

Less soul, more mind
I'm a bit confused by your design, not sure where it's going to. That „revolver style“ might appeal to some (not me, though), but if I may hand out one advice: keep it simple. I actually believe quite a few vaporists, like myself, also do e cigs, yet I have no interest in having one device for both. At all. There are so many things that will hardly work out, for example: how do we manage the often very strong cannabis smells that will stick to the vapor path and mouthpiece when we want to switch to e juice? When I vape my black tea / lemon e juice, I want to taste black tea and lemon, not Super Skunk or Girl Scout Cookies.

The thing is: for us vape enthusiasts it's hard to see actual innovation here. It's just sticking things together. Designing a good vaporizer means looking at functionality, simplicity and performance.
 
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