Fake Purple Days on Ebay - "Better Days"

[vap999]

I like how he says it has some "upgrades" over the PD, wow. Not very much creativity in the name or the wood selection, this ones really a rip-off.

What do you see as being ripped off here? Who owns what that is being taken? And what's wrong with upgrades?

There is nothing being ripped off; and there is nothing to rip off here. The basic design, construction, know-how, technology, intellectual property, etc. of vaporizers (unless covered by patent) are in the public domain, meaning they are common knowledge and belong to no one. Anyone who wants to make and sell a vaporizer, toaster, radio, auto, generic drug or just about anything else can just do it, even outright copy another product (just don't violate an active patent). In fact, the great majority of commerce involves many sources selling the same or much the same products-- resulting in compeition which, hopefully, drives innovation and/or lowers prices.

Otherwise, most vaporizers are variations on the same themes; if you're luck, with incremental improvements and some different features. [Are you familiar with the history of Eterra/PD/MZ/WDZ/BD class vaporizers?] Real innovations are rare, that's their nature.

 

[Purple-Days]

This is just to bring Vap999, who says, "Real innovations are rare, that's their nature." up to speed...


I was the one who innovated, brought the 1978 Eterra, and it's copycat's, design into the modern word, by eliminating questionable brass materials in previous designs.

I was the one who made the first fully RoHS compliant (totally Lead-Free) design of this type and brought it to market.

I was the first to use stainless steel for this heat exchanger design. And without my crossbar design, you may notice, all others who have copied me, would be lost (trying to use stainless steel, read the history... ).

I was the first to use Radiating Fins and 5 separate heat sinks (increasing surface area) in the design. I was the first to go from 60 radiating fins to 72 (before the others even thought of copying my designs). I was the first (and so far only mfg.) to use Black Oxide coated Stainless Steel radiating fins to increase the heat exchange rate. I was the first to use Myrtlewood a species native to where we live. I was also the first to use Cherry, our house wood and Walnut etc... I also use a front loading, consumer replaceable screen design. Also, the first manufacturer, to offer a kit form, of the vape they are known for.

The heart of the intellectual property is the crossbar, and the fins. See those in the copycats? Sure you do. Like Lwien says, here we go again.

 

[Rick]

Speaking as the copycat who who of course is another worthless manufacturer according to wonderful Tom, I wonder what the great inventor would have done had we not copied the Eterra in 2001 and continued to build and sell them at a steady pace? There were no other log vapes out there but us for years. Did the great inventor even have an Eterra to copy? Or were they all Aromazaps?

The word innovation has some funny meanings here on FC at times.

 

[Purple-Days]

I was looking at buying an Eterra when I ran across the Aromazap. It was available and you know that. Also, I was looking at the Inavap, another direct draw design, but brightly colored plastic body was a bit bold for my tatses.

I saw that Rick was advertising Lead-Free solder. I thought, hey, it's a Lead free vape. Little did I know that Rick was aware of the Lead content of his brass (and had been since before he started making the vape, he says so in his official thread) but wasn't mentioning it to the public.

Rick you could have stayed out of this (you weren't mentioned). But as long as you are here, why not...?

You have repeated several times that you bought the Eterra with the intent of copying it. I bought the Aromazap with the intention of using it, not copying it.

Yes you were the one who built the vape that fell apart and I had to re-build in Myrtlewood (hardwood that wasn't going to fall apart). You were the one who I asked to build my second vape. And that's when I introduced you to Myrtlewood.

It was when you, let it slip to me, that I found out about your Lead in the airpath. That was the day that I became totally pissed off at you, for what you were hiding from the public. You were touting Lead free solder, but (knowingly) using Leaded Brass.

That's the day I decided to make my own vape out of non-Leaded materials.

Sure I used the basics of the Eterra design, which you copied. And sure having to rebuild the Aromazap I saw the only useful component, the resistor, which you sanded the ID numbers off of. Of course it wasn't RoHS compliant and those numbers would have showed that.

BTW Rick (of Aromazap and Myrtlezap), I have invented other stuff, innovation is something I do.

Stainless steel required different approaches and the crossbar was an innovation, and that's why it is being copied. An all RoHS vape was also an innovation. We don't see anybody copying you, do we, Rick?

 

[lwien]

(deleted).......Changed mah mind. Gonna sit on the sidelines. Gonna just be a spectator this time 'round rather than an active playah.

 

[Rick]

Never have sanded any ID numbers off of anything. AZ was an open book from the beginning. That's one of the reasons we continue to do the hokey cardboard bottom, so people like you can make excuses to get into it to copy it. We've only been copied a half dozen times or so that I know of and I always invite and encourage that just as I would have done with you if you had the balls to be honest with me as you kept up the "friendship" bullshit for what, 4 months right before the PD release?

No more from me about you Tom. You are the man, that's for sure. One dip into the gutter is enough for me. Over the last several months it has been fun ignoring you and your digs and jabs at us while providing cover for yourself by not mentioning names. It was fun ignoring your Myrtle wood comment after you said you never would do Myrtlewood. I'm going back to the fun. My apologies for giving your wonderful recant of your greatness any response.

 

[Purple-Days]

Rick (of Aromazap and Myrtlezap), you know damn good and well the numbers were sanded off. They didn't just disappear, and if you think I can't tell sanding (only on the spot the numbers are written)... you are joking right?

And as stated the softwood Aromazap fell apart (stopped working) and needed repair. I bought it in 2003, the internal solder connections let go after 4-5 months and I repaired it in early 2004. If I had any notion of 'copying' you for profit it would have been done right then, in 2004. I used the repaired Aromazap till the soft wood deteriorated and I was again left with a non-working vape. This time, 2005, I replaced the body with Myrtlewood. We then got a Super-Vapezilla in 2005, and retired the rebuilt Aromazap. The Super-Vapezilla crapped out and we were forced to drag out the rebuilt Aromazap. It was at this time in 2007 that we contacted you about a custom Aromazap built with Myrtlewood that we supplied.

You and I started talking after that, and I started helping you to find suitable Myrtlewood slabs for your business, remember? Yeah that's right I was 'helping' you in return for a few zaps. And don't you remember asking me to help with proofreading and wording on your site? Yes, helping you... And then the day came when I found out that I was breathing through a product that the maker knew contained Lead (Pb) in the airpath. Yes, Rick and I had become friendly, Pammy even sent your wife some gifts. Remember?

There was no friendship after that day, when I found out about the Lead (Pb), and your foreknowledge, of it's presence in the airpath. I was fucking pissed.

Do you still have all the e-mails? I do, and have reviewed them carefully. Once I found out about the Lead I was through with you. But, even then, had no commercial intentions. I just wanted a Lead -Free vape. And decided to build one for myself and maybe a few friends. It developed from there and in a few months we were commercial on a very small scale.

But, you knew all this, or have conveniently forgotten. Spin it any way you want Rick, I believe you deceived me (and others) and that ended our relationship. The development of the Purple-Days had nothing to do with the end of our relations. That came later. Remember?

BTW, have you ever wondered what happened to the extra Zaps I worked for? No, I didn't take them apart, I had all the knowledge I needed from the 2004 and 2005 (required) repairs. Several working Aromazap vapes. I threw them in a dumpster, because I could not let anyone, use a vape, that I knew had Lead (Pb) in it's airpath. So there. dot ell dot dot

BTW you mis-quote me about the Myrtlewood. But, that's like you, Rick. 'Never say never', is something I believe in. You don't know what tomorrow will bring. Things change.

 

[Mckdenton]

Coming here always makes me smile.
thanks guys

 

[AGBeer]

We're not going to do this again, are we?

Only until YOU buy one and put a review up here

Oh yeah, thats after you take the personal tour of his factory too

 

[lwien]

^^ Ok, how 'bout I buy this AND a Woodez and a Fuji and do a side by side comparison? LOL. To me, that would be like buying a Yugo, a Pinto, a Pacer and a Corvair for a shootout comparison at Laguna Seca.

 

[jordon23]

Guys I really hate to see you having it out. I really think you should drop it and be thankful that these vapes are here and becoming pretty common. I think both of you have contributed greatly to the vape world. No need to have a pissing contest, just pack a stem or two and enjoy the things that life has provided. I respect both of you because I have owned both vapes, and I loved both of them. I have also sent both of you business and wouldn't do that if I didn't think you had something worth investing in. Thats just my 2 cents. One final note even if you guys have no love for one another for whatever reason, you do have a common interest. That is some common ground and even though you may not like one another you can find a way to tolerate eachother if you try.

 

[AGBeer]

I agree with you, but there is a level of (unwritten) respect here as well. I guess some would call it integrity.

Sure I might copy (or improve) on a design of a vape and market it. (No harm no foul eh? Its about the community right?)

But when you use FALSE LEADING ADVERTS to plug your shit, it becomes less and less about the community and more about themselves. (Not to mention, falsely leading someone by using an already respected name is just downright shitty any way you slice it)

 

[DeepFried]

anybody need a towel?

 

[Mckdenton]

 

[jordon23]

I totally see the point about the better days thing. That was some shady stuff from the beginning. I was really talking to Rick and Tom. I think a lot of both of them, and I guess looking from the outside I see the value that both of them have in the vape world. I have not done a lot of business with Tom due to the waiting list, but he has treated me right anytime I have contacted him. Rick is also great to deal with anytime I need anything. Even though they are different they are both great, and I think they could both get more vapes made if they would play nice LOL.

 

[vap999]

This is just to bring Vap999, who says, "Real innovations are rare, that's their nature." up to speed...


I was the one who innovated, brought the 1978 Eterra, and it's copycat's, design into the modern word, by eliminating questionable brass materials in previous designs.

I was the one who made the first fully RoHS compliant (totally Lead-Free) design of this type and brought it to market.

I was the first to use stainless steel for this heat exchanger design. And without my crossbar design, you may notice, all others who have copied me, would be lost (trying to use stainless steel, read the history... ).

I was the first to use Radiating Fins and 5 separate heat sinks (increasing surface area) in the design. I was the first to go from 60 radiating fins to 72 (before the others even thought of copying my designs). I was the first (and so far only mfg.) to use Black Oxide coated Stainless Steel radiating fins to increase the heat exchange rate. I was the first to use Myrtlewood a species native to where we live. I was also the first to use Cherry, our house wood and Walnut etc... I also use a front loading, consumer replaceable screen design. Also, the first manufacturer, to offer a kit form, of the vape they are known for.

The heart of the intellectual property is the crossbar, and the fins. See those in the copycats? Sure you do. Like Lwien says, here we go again, you can't let it go, I bet.

When I referred to "real innovations," I was thinking of paradigm shifts, new inventions that provide totally new ways of doing things. For example, I would put the Magic Flight Launch Box towards the upper end of the continuous innovation scale/spectrum. As two current Eterra descendent vaporizer manufacturers have both reiterated, their designs started with an Eterra or a generic version (copy) of one. My main point was that there is nothing wrong, no ripping-off involved, with even outright copying of designs (presuming no patent infringement), particularly if someone tries to make it better, cheaper, adds more features, meets a market demand/need, etc.

With the PD, I presume that there would not be any or as many copies, if PDs were mass-produced (vs. hand-crafted) to meet the obvious demand.

Although it surely seems that most every new vaporizer manufacturer makes incredible blunders, often is totally clueless about marketing, or is just not that good with public communication, I think we should support them all, including the ones obviously filling a demand with generic products (copies) and making an effort to make and sell a decent product, as the BD seems to be doing.

An Eterra I still have, broken for well over a decade, purchased in 1994 (or 1995) from "Bob" (Eterra inventor), on the inside is simply a resistor in a brass tube, while on the outside it looks much like current log-style vaporizers. So, Purple-Days deserves much credit, accolades, etc. for the multiple dramatic upgrades/innovations he implemented, along with further credit for persistance, staying in business (despite surely many hassles over the years), while Eterras seemed to disappear in the mid-late 1990s.

While we are somewhat discussing history, can anyone tell me (us) what convection or any vaporizers, other than globe-type conduction ones, were on the market before the early-mid 1990s? My 1994/5 Eterra, I recall, was made just before the main production run (and may not be fully representative of Eterras). Were Eterras (or by another name) marketed before the early-mid 1990s?

 

[lwien]

Damn, I said I wasn't going to get into this, but vap999 is making me. It's totally out of my control.

One thing that you failed to mention, vap, in your post above, are concepts like ethics and integrity. The way the BD was introduced here as well as how it was marketed on ebay lacked both of those concepts. It's not a matter of being clueless about marketing and public communication. It's about out and out lying.

But again, we've already gone over all this and we really are beating a dead horse here, but you left these things out of your analysis above, and they needed to be thrown back in. :/

Integrity and a high ethical standard is something that I put a high value in and is one of the main reasons why I purchased the PD and is also the reason why I would NEVER purchase the Better Days.

 

[Purple-Days]

Bob's 1978 patent is the first 'convection' vaporizer I have run across.

His story is an interesting one, I have said it many times, I owe this basic concept to him.

My understanding of the story is: His co-worker was a tobacco user. Bob worked for the EPA and went on an assignment to a Monsanto facility where he saw a large scale vaporization process and a light went off. He invented the Eterra based on the Monsanto process. I also heard that the first (test of concept) prototype was assembled using a brake fluid can (this may or may not be true).

 

[lwien]

^^ I see a PD Museum in the works.

Monsanto. Haven't heard that name in a very long time. I think it was my first ride at Disneyland.

 

[Purple-Days]

I went into a Monsanto plastics mfg. facility in Ohio and they confiscated your lighters, matches and even the cig lighter in the dash of your vehicle on entering the property. . . Made me feel real secure knowing that we could all go sky high at any moment from the slightest spark. Boom ! Haha...

 

[vap999]

Damn, I said I wasn't going to get into this, but vap999 is making me. It's totally out of my control.

One thing that you failed to mention, vap, in your post above, are concepts like ethics and integrity. The way the BD was introduced here as well as how it was marketed on ebay lacked both of those concepts. It's not a matter of being clueless about marketing and public communication. It's about out and out lying.

I was trying to be nice, avoid being judgemental, since I don't recall the exact details of the blunder(s) or lie(s) associated with this new vaporizer. I somewhat recall the BD builder trying to explain that he wasn't doing anything wrong when he portrayed his BD as being a PD (vs. being PD-like or a copy), so maybe it was not a premeditated, out-and-out rip-off attempt. The product launch certainly was not well thought out, to put it mildly. With intellectual property theft incredibly common, e.g., copying of copyright-protected music and video, and many people vehement about their rights to do this, I would not be surprised at any level of misunderstanding, ignorance and total lack of common sense concerning naming products and making advertising claims. But then, I lack the personal connection you have with the PD.

With FC indexed by Google and presumably other search engines, the BD builder will forever have to deal with this extensive FC commentary, mostly concerning him (with little commentary about his product). Presuming he's mended his ways by now, I say let's be supportive of him and all the other developers, no matter how badly they present (or even misrepresent) their product in its initial marketing, as long as they make needed corrections.

 

[lwien]

Sorry, vap. Not going to be supportive of someone who creates a false account and pretends to be someone who just happened to find this product on ebay and presented it here as such, and then...........when he gets busted on this, he again lies and denies it. It's not just his false advertising on ebay, but the fact that he tried to pull the wool over our eyes by pretending to be someone else (see first post in this thread). SmokenJoe50 and ChronicVapeShop are one in the same person. Now I guess if he owned up to this, claimed temporary insanity and apologized to everyone here, than I could cut him some slack. He hasn't and therefore has not mended his ways. Absolutely no integrity and he will never get my support.

Ok, done beating this horse. He died awhile ago. :/

 

[Purple-Days]

Smells like???

This guy, Joe, is a cork. He has proven it!

Stealing the 'Days' name alone (in connection with a copy cat vape) is actionable... make a Purple-Days Wind Sock, or Ice Cream, or Purple-Days Whatzitz, and it's not. What an idiot. . . Jerk... and Thief... and Liar (proven here). . . right before your very eyes...

VVV never change Jeff, that was funny!!!

 

[jeffp]

I have a good mind to ring his doorbell and run.

 

[lwien]

I have a good mind to ring his doorbell and run.

But first light a bag full of dog doo on fire and leave it on his doorstep. Then ring the bell and run.