Everybody got what they wanted. Now what?

darbarikanada

Well-Known Member
have vaping devices pretty much matured to where everyone got what they said they wanted? the big one was all-convection; there now are lots of options getting very positive reviews. if your thing is giant rips (without combusting), there are tons of options that'll deliver. the situation with the mighty+ kind of illustrates this: after 6 years, the only thing people agree on, as far as what S&B should improve, is better battery life and heat-up time: minor tweaks. based on the crafty+, that's probably what'll happen.

all-convection can't get more portable because the device and/or vapor will be too hot. the idea of bigger dab hits is comical: they're already as ginormous as anyone could ask for. if tiny is your thing, there are battery vapes not much bigger than a zippo lighter, or the vapcap, the size of a one-hitter.

maybe it's just a failure of imagination on my part, but I wonder if we've already hit 'peak vape', other than battery improvement. thoughts?
 

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/CC/FW7/OAB
Haha yeah I think failure of imagination, if it wasn't for the tricky legalities, like if more mainstream appeal could develop with more opportunity available, I think we could see a lot more innovation on the actual designs themselves though the heating technologies I guess are already pretty advanced by now?
 

cx714

All your vape are belong to us
That’s what we thought about mobile phones when they reached peak pocketability... then came the iPhone and now we all want more screen. The paradigm always shifts.

For example, however you feel about vapcaps, induction heaters have evolved their low tech genius into something smarter. Once temp sensing becomes widespread, no one’ll ever need to respect the click again.

Personally I’m happy with my current lineup, though vaping dries out my throat like no one’s business. If there were only a vape with an integrated beverage dispenser...
 
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EverythingsHazy

Well-Known Member
but I wonder if we've already hit 'peak vape', other than battery improvement. thoughts?
There is a point where you can't get any better. The point of a vape is to heat the material, without adding anything to it, and to do the same with the airflow. There is a reason why log vapes and glass accessories are so popular, despite being so simple.
 

btka

Well-Known Member
as long as people have VAS there is no perfect vape.... VAS is the search of the perfect vape...
there is a lot of improovement possible in my opinion...
few examples: hot vapor, bad taste after 1 or 2 hits, taking 12 second draws to get vapor and looking stupid while doing so......

possible that some people get disillusioned about vaping, it seems like the hype of the past years gets less (subjective feeling, but I think in the past there was more rumour in this forum.. and about vaping)

In my opinion there was not a lot of innovation in the vape business, look at storz and bickel for example volcano classic vs volcano hybrid, or crafty vs crafty+ or mighty (seems like biggest thing in past years was bluetooth connectivity and apps (which in reality also no one needs). Or a vape with a cup tafee bowle...
 

His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
I believe there will be innovation in cannabis consumption methods that will eventually replace heat technology. We're already seeing progress with pills, powders, topical lotions and we're just getting started.

I expect there will be more vape enhancements beyond batteries in the short term. Maybe using laser or microwave tech to more efficiently target the chemistry.

Long term I wouldn't be surprised to see things like sound waves or other vibration science used to free up the plant's chemistry.
 

terac.one

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
The quality of steam is the combination of its strength and softness. The smaller the condensation loss (the shorter the steam path from the place of its formation to the human mouth), the stronger the steam will be. And the colder this steam path is during vaping (the more substances whose boiling point is less than 100C are condensed on it), the softer the steam will be.

If it is a small consumption of the product that is important, then take something short and thin (like dynovap). If you need a soft steam - put the vapor on a bong with ice - but then forget about economical use. All the rest, to one degree or another, are half - measures: softer steam - colder and longer path - more flow; less flow - shorter and hotter path - tougher steam...

We (terac.one project) see the future of portable devices for the use of marijuana in the form of a powerful device that will, on the one hand, constantly cool the path of steam, and on the other - heat the weed by convection.
 

C No Ego

Well-Known Member
The quality of steam is the combination of its strength and softness. The smaller the condensation loss (the shorter the steam path from the place of its formation to the human mouth), the stronger the steam will be. And the colder this steam path is during vaping (the more substances whose boiling point is less than 100C are condensed on it), the softer the steam will be.

If it is a small consumption of the product that is important, then take something short and thin (like dynovap). If you need a soft steam - put the vapor on a bong with ice - but then forget about economical use. All the rest, to one degree or another, are half - measures: softer steam - colder and longer path - more flow; less flow - shorter and hotter path - tougher steam...

We (terac.one project) see the future of portable devices for the use of marijuana in the form of a powerful device that will, on the one hand, constantly cool the path of steam, and on the other - heat the weed by convection.
if the cannabis is cured out correctly ther is no steam in vpaor ... it is Gaseous state ( Aerosol ) . Cured out bud is like 2 to5 % moisture content ...
 

Tranquility

Well-Known Member
if the cannabis is cured out correctly ther is no steam in vpaor ... it is Gaseous state ( Aerosol ) . Cured out bud is like 2 to5 % moisture content ...
If there is 2-5% water, where did it go when heated? "No" steam?

Aerosol is not a vapor. An aerosol is many exceptionally tiny pieces of stuff suspended in gas while a vapor is an actual change of state. Steam is the vapor of water. But, does it matter?

Especially at first, even in well-cured flower, there is water vapor in the aerosol. There are other vapors too--depending on the temp and time.
 

Farid

Well-Known Member
There is so much that can still be done.

Systems that regulate the relationship between airflow and the heater power can be made more precise.

Heat exchangers can be optimized to heat up faster, and reduce heat loss.

And most importantly the form factor can be improved and styles made more attractive. Just look at the e-cig world, I'd love it if we had herb vapes with the build quality of mech mods or billet box type ecigs.
 

terac.one

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
if the cannabis is cured out correctly ther is no steam in vpaor ... it is Gaseous state ( Aerosol ) . Cured out bud is like 2 to5 % moisture content ...
Sorry for Google Translate. When I say "steam", I don't necessarily mean just water vapor. I'm talking about the whole spectrum of substances that boiled, evaporated, and formed a cloud. A cloud of steam.
 

bossman

Gentleman Of Leisure
It's a good question and I think you framed it well. I like @Farid's thoughts on areas for further development. I'd piggyback that to say the standout thing to me is that while yes: I have gotten what I wanted, it's only been from industrious individuals like Ryan at RBT, Ville at Tinymight, or Marc at Firewood, etc. The current landscape of top-shelf portables is more a testament to the ceiling of what a one person shop can pull off.

Arizer and S&B seem oblivious to how outdated their offerings are, while smaller companies like HealthyRips have consistently sidestepped the on demand challenge, perhaps rightly assuming they should aim to be the next Arizer.

Folks like Ralph at Lamart are showing what's possible with even existing box mod tech and a smartly designed heater and wooden body. But even seeking a side-by-side with a removal 18650 quickly stomps your shopping list down to like five dudes who need you to wait two weeks to two years (sorry Dan) for them to get caught up to sell you one.

Those dudes are the godfathers and all respect to them, there's just a gap between their in-house products and early efforts like the Vleaf Go. There should totally be a vape that looks like the Fury 2 only it's on demand and takes an 18650 or two. The godfathers have proven you can do this shit out back in your workshop *and turn a dollar.
 

~vapeslut.xo~

Well-Known Member
have vaping devices pretty much matured to where everyone got what they said they wanted? the big one was all-convection; there now are lots of options getting very positive reviews. if your thing is giant rips (without combusting), there are tons of options that'll deliver. the situation with the mighty+ kind of illustrates this: after 6 years, the only thing people agree on, as far as what S&B should improve, is better battery life and heat-up time: minor tweaks. based on the crafty+, that's probably what'll happen.

all-convection can't get more portable because the device and/or vapor will be too hot. the idea of bigger dab hits is comical: they're already as ginormous as anyone could ask for. if tiny is your thing, there are battery vapes not much bigger than a zippo lighter, or the vapcap, the size of a one-hitter.

maybe it's just a failure of imagination on my part, but I wonder if we've already hit 'peak vape', other than battery improvement. thoughts?
Well i'm just a newie around these parts but if i can offer a penny or two..

I think stuff like the Tafee Bowle is really cool and probably, sorta "paving the way" for more enhancements...
Or like, they had a good idea there, which may or may not have been done properly...but it is a good start.

Like there is so much potential! when you start combining device functions like "vape + drink" ... "vape + phone,"
"vape + mp3 player...." stuff like that.

In short no i dont think we are anywhere close to peak vape :)
Not even close.
(But my perception might be altered by being new to this while thing :)
 

cptofnthng

Well-Known Member
i dont have much knowledge on the history of vaporizer development during, say the last ten years, but some of them, like the minivap or the SSV,.., are still considered pretty solid vapes, right? that If you bought them now, you wouldnt miss much (if conduction is cool for you). that speaks for the slow overall development and how hard generally reinventing a wheel is, i think.

on the other hand you have all the on demand electric portable/desktop heavy hitters evolution in the last 2-3 years. were people before like - i really miss a good heavy convection portable? but like shit snacks or someone else noticed, the big companys dont care much apparently -but WHY? i dont get it. maybe the market is much smaller right now for convection vapes or is it much harder to develop them as a mass device? i dont know, but i am german, i should like terrorcall Storz and Bickel headquarters and inquire. that skinny a few days(fake or not) seemed to entertain the same Idea. i picture them secretly ordering hundreds of artisan vapes and taking them apart. Audi did that famously with a rented tesla a few years ago and gave the poor thing back after :)

i have a friend that is living pretty remote, doesnt surf much (the internetz), but is a rightful stoner since forever. ever since i have donated a crafty to him in 2015 he never even considered buying another one, nor does he care if i try to convince him of my new goodiez at all. He only curses about the battery sometimes :)
but VAS victim that i am, i think i want what the tafee bowle hinted at, super convenient convection, super cool, dense, flavourful vapor, a battery for a whole week and all of that in an super solid, easy to maintain and super small form, which someone smarter and more creative needs to find. Like just from a pure visual standpoint, none of the vapes have a lot of appeal to me, except my OAB in Transit, she is beautiful. but comes being vulnerable. but maybe i cant develop deeper feelings for technical objects like you guys:)
 

Farid

Well-Known Member
but like shit snacks or someone else noticed, the big companys dont care much apparently -but WHY? i dont get it. maybe the market is much smaller right now for convection vapes or is it much harder to develop them as a mass device? i dont know, but i am german, i should like terrorcall Storz and Bickel headquarters and inquire. that skinny a few days(fake or not) seemed to entertain the same Idea. i picture them secretly ordering hundreds of artisan vapes and taking them apart. Audi did that famously with a rented tesla a few years ago and gave the poor thing back after :)

I suspect the reasons on demand convection is not adopted by big name brands is because the risk of combustion is much higher, and the battery efficiency much worse.

As enthusiasts we have a much higher tolerance for learning curves, maintenance, and general finickyness. The mass market wants ease of use. A lot of people will combust once and write off a vape as not functional, and toss it in a drawer, angry that they just wasted their money on something that "doesn't work". We enthusiasts have the patience to do a deep clean, and try again, but a lot of people do not.

The firefly is probably the biggest brand that makes an on demand convection vape, and the almost bipolar reception it received is evidence of what I'm talking about. In this case it was the poor battery life that was the big complaint, but others complained about the finnickyness of the grind size, and uneven extraction. But for some people who worked through these issues it's their go to device.

From a business perspective, the easy way out is to avoid this style design all together. Now I'm not saying they're right, and that there isn't an engineering solution, but just attempting to shed light on what I suspect is their thought process.
 

cptofnthng

Well-Known Member
that actually makes a lot of sense. but i dont think you can combust with the tafee bowle, so the tech is here already. or shouldnt be far.

but your remarks on peoples impatient behavior after buying Things i know from myself. so full of stupidness we all are soemtimes. only later to discover valueable lessons in the quickly thrown away objects.
 

Farid

Well-Known Member
The Bowle has reduced the risk of combustion significantly, but a tiny handful of people have still managed to combust when they don't stir. Convection will naturally come with a greater combustion risk due to the role air flow rate plays in the heat transfer. The Bowle has mitigated this risk through clever engineering but in the end, the risk is still there.

Not to say that conduction vapes can't combust, they certainly can, but airflow isn't as big a factor.

The other big downside to convection that I forgot to mention (as it goes hand in hand with combustion) is the need to stir to avoid hot spotting. Again this is something that can happen with conduction too, it's just a bigger issue with convection, as it is related to the pattern of flow of the heated air.
 
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nickolas

Member
I could see a lot of things being added to vapes in time. I mean filters or sensors that warn of contamination are harmful chemicals in your herb or vapor. Power and heating options still have room to advance as well and maybe even new materials like carbon nanotubes or something.
 

darbarikanada

Well-Known Member
call Storz and Bickel headquarters and inquire

the need to stir to avoid hot spotting
I think these posts capture the situation at present. all-convection still has issues (battery, stirring, hot spots), despite what progress has been made, and I think it's a fair assumption that S&B will come out with an all-convection vape when they come up with something as easy to use as crafty/mighty - it's practically a no-brainer that they're working on it.

another thing I can't speak to, since I'm still on the all-convection sidelines, is people commenting about the declining flavor in these vapes: super good for a hit or 2 (or 3?), then - not so much. it makes sense to me: once you've heated the weed a few times, expecting it to taste like that first hit or 2 after that, whether it's convection or not, seems like a pipe dream. you have to be a die-hard to put up with the fussiness of all-convection vapes (battery life, stirring, hot spots) if the payoff is only a few good hits.

what am I missing here?
 
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