Discontinued Element Hand-powered Pocket Vaporizer
- Thread starter Frickr
- Start date
OF
Well-Known Member
kuzko
Well-Known Member
Hello everyone!
I advice to leave the three inlet holes leading to the herb chamber and the three inlets on the wood cup as they are, blocking is not needed.
The herb chamber can be packed quite tightly.
Over heating is possible but not easily.Typically, the friction gets harder when you get closer to vaporizing temperature.
Let the weight of your body do the tension of the cord by placing your hand behind the leg and leaning against the cord. Do you know what I mean.
Looking forward to more questions,
vapman
Good to know, I'll keep working on my technique then haha. Thanks for your expertise!
I think I know what you mean with the tension, that might be what I've been doing. Maybe someone can draw a graph or picture to clarify?
I got one @vapman ... I want one! ahahaha, when will the next run be available???
I am thinking for a while about making a new series but never found the time to make it happen. It is an interesting concept and there are still possibilities for refinements and optimizing. I only have a very few left and I like to keep these as a reference. Sorry for not being able to serve you.
All I want to say is: don't waste too much energy for the tightening of the cord, find a position where you can tighten the cord simply with the weight of your body instead with the muscle of your arm. You need the energy for the movements, tightening the cord is a static energy and doesn't need muscle power.
vapman
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
Wow, it is gratifying to see that the user was able to get good results with the unit after all. Even if this product only stands as a proof of concept now (being out of production), kudos to Rene for coming up with it!
Congratulations to you @kuzko!
Just in case, all the spare parts are still in stock, I won't let you down!
vapman
PPN
Volute of Vapor
That's great new!
Is it something DIY-able René? .... or is it a high precision machinery àla Swiss watch?
Really digging this design, what about a stationary vape using this friction heating system...maybe it will help to produce vapor easily!?
I'm feeling ashamed to get doubts, I have seen Verdampnotchmal got it in stock but was afarid to take the plunge....
Please @kuzko keep us updated!
Is it something DIY-able René? .... or is it a high precision machinery àla Swiss watch?
Really digging this design, what about a stationary vape using this friction heating system...maybe it will help to produce vapor easily!?
I'm feeling ashamed to get doubts, I have seen Verdampnotchmal got it in stock but was afarid to take the plunge....
Please @kuzko keep us updated!
OF
Well-Known Member
That great! How much do you rent your brother out for?
Hey, maybe we get us some more brothers, get VM to make us some more units, and we go into business. Kinda like Uber.........
OF
OF
Well-Known Member
Some gears, chains and a lever and you could spin this thing up in no time
Maybe not very portable but maybe a modified bicycle with a kickstand that lifts up back-wheel and then there would be a receiver for the vape and the so you could power it with a bike
How about the stealth version? Replace the pulley with a rubber tire for traction, and head to the gym. You could sneak up on sweaty folks on exercise bikes and rub it against the spinning wheel......then wonder off again to take your hit......
I wouldn't tell them, while they did come to exercise some might not take your helping them out with that in a friendly manner. Be ready to run, but if you do it right they should be nearly winded already?
Of course you could call yourself a trainer.....and charge them?
OF
PPN
Volute of Vapor
The Element came yesterday.... after a few trials and user errors I was able to get some visible vapor and to vape 2 bowls but that's more job than expected! Actually I can't mimic the Vapman video where he get thick vapor in less than 1mn, I need at least 2x 1mn heating cycles to get the unit hot enough.
I'll experiment more with the right pressure of the spinning wood on the heating copper pan. Not enough pressure and there is not enough heat, too much pressure make it difficult to use, I'm still working on the right pressure.
Actually the vapor I get is very thin and there is quasi no heat retention so don't expect several hits from one heating cycle. Although I know it is possible to get thicker hits in regard of the Vapman video. René used the Element as his only vape for more than 1 year so it might work!
The downside is the price which is pretty high in regard to the results but maybe not in regards to the work involved by the manufacturer.... on top of that I had to pay (for the 2nd time of my vaping life!) the tax of my country... so I payed up to 280€ for this toy! To be Earth friendly cost a lot, this is the most expensive vape I payed for after my MiniVap and Herborizer Ti... to be honnest that's slightly difficult to swallow .... in regards of my situation (fuckin' vas!) and in regards of the performances of the vape...
I love the concept but understand better why the manufacturer stopped the production... I'll try more experiments and training sessions to try to get the hang from it, maybe I'll work on some improvements. I'm thinking about to replace the spinning wood by something else (metal, glass, stone,;;;
able to create higher temps and some heat retention ... is it possible? And another system to heat it faster... All the ideas would be greatly appreciated!
I'll experiment more with the right pressure of the spinning wood on the heating copper pan. Not enough pressure and there is not enough heat, too much pressure make it difficult to use, I'm still working on the right pressure.
Actually the vapor I get is very thin and there is quasi no heat retention so don't expect several hits from one heating cycle. Although I know it is possible to get thicker hits in regard of the Vapman video. René used the Element as his only vape for more than 1 year so it might work!
The downside is the price which is pretty high in regard to the results but maybe not in regards to the work involved by the manufacturer.... on top of that I had to pay (for the 2nd time of my vaping life!) the tax of my country... so I payed up to 280€ for this toy! To be Earth friendly cost a lot, this is the most expensive vape I payed for after my MiniVap and Herborizer Ti... to be honnest that's slightly difficult to swallow .... in regards of my situation (fuckin' vas!) and in regards of the performances of the vape...
I love the concept but understand better why the manufacturer stopped the production... I'll try more experiments and training sessions to try to get the hang from it, maybe I'll work on some improvements. I'm thinking about to replace the spinning wood by something else (metal, glass, stone,;;;
able to create higher temps and some heat retention ... is it possible? And another system to heat it faster... All the ideas would be greatly appreciated!
OF
Well-Known Member
Here's a thought on heat. It's coming from friction (of course) being powered by "Work" in the classical physics POV. For us Yanks, this means Foot Pounds. Like in pushing your car, all the effort to get it moving seems like work, but really isn't in the classical sense. You need to move against a load. You can lift a weight, push a car, or make vapor with your Element.....it's all work.
Again, we need force and distance. Without motion it's only force, no work being done, you could make the same thing happen with a spring......
Since the stroke is fixed you need to take more strokes or use more resistance to get more Foot Pounds of work done. Power, OTOH, involves time (a rate). Do 550 Foot Pounds of lifting (either 550 pounds a foot, one pound 550 feet, 50 pounds 11 feet or any other combination (against gravity) in a second and you're a horse by no less an authority than James Watt his own self. That's how he defined the power produced by his pioneering steam engines.....against his measure of the 'standard British plow horse'. 750 Watts, give or take.
Time plays a role here since you lose heat over time, but in general but to a first order going harder (more resistance) is better than going faster (or longer). Think about it, by the time you make vapor lots of the work you put in has escaped making the wrong stuff warm.
Anyway, I think the key to getting vapor fast is more resistance. IIRC healthy adults can produce 60 Watts short term, something like 15 for over a minute? Using as much of that as is comfortable will get you to the Palace of True Enlightenment fastest I think.....if you're not too winded when you get there, of course.
Fun concept. More so due to it's family connection with VM.
OF
Again, we need force and distance. Without motion it's only force, no work being done, you could make the same thing happen with a spring......
Since the stroke is fixed you need to take more strokes or use more resistance to get more Foot Pounds of work done. Power, OTOH, involves time (a rate). Do 550 Foot Pounds of lifting (either 550 pounds a foot, one pound 550 feet, 50 pounds 11 feet or any other combination (against gravity) in a second and you're a horse by no less an authority than James Watt his own self. That's how he defined the power produced by his pioneering steam engines.....against his measure of the 'standard British plow horse'. 750 Watts, give or take.
Time plays a role here since you lose heat over time, but in general but to a first order going harder (more resistance) is better than going faster (or longer). Think about it, by the time you make vapor lots of the work you put in has escaped making the wrong stuff warm.
Anyway, I think the key to getting vapor fast is more resistance. IIRC healthy adults can produce 60 Watts short term, something like 15 for over a minute? Using as much of that as is comfortable will get you to the Palace of True Enlightenment fastest I think.....if you're not too winded when you get there, of course.
Fun concept. More so due to it's family connection with VM.
OF
kuzko
Well-Known Member
The Element came yesterday.... after a few trials and user errors I was able to get some visible vapor and to vape 2 bowls but that's more job than expected! Actually I can't mimic the Vapman video where he get thick vapor in less than 1mn, I need at least 2x 1mn heating cycles to get the unit hot enough.
I'll experiment more with the right pressure of the spinning wood on the heating copper pan. Not enough pressure and there is not enough heat, too much pressure make it difficult to use, I'm still working on the right pressure.
Actually the vapor I get is very thin and there is quasi no heat retention so don't expect several hits from one heating cycle. Although I know it is possible to get thicker hits in regard of the Vapman video. René used the Element as his only vape for more than 1 year so it might work!
The downside is the price which is pretty high in regard to the results but maybe not in regards to the work involved by the manufacturer.... on top of that I had to pay (for the 2nd time of my vaping life!) the tax of my country... so I payed up to 280€ for this toy! To be Earth friendly cost a lot, this is the most expensive vape I payed for after my MiniVap and Herborizer Ti... to be honnest that's slightly difficult to swallow .... in regards of my situation (fuckin' vas!) and in regards of the performances of the vape...
I love the concept but understand better why the manufacturer stopped the production... I'll try more experiments and training sessions to try to get the hang from it, maybe I'll work on some improvements. I'm thinking about to replace the spinning wood by something else (metal, glass, stone,;;;
I hear ya, I didn't have to pay those taxes but I'm still very happy to own this vape. I never imagined it as a regular driver, more of a novelty that is a unique neat thing to show friends.
PPN
Volute of Vapor
I didn't gave up!
And after a dozen of sessions I improved my heating technic and spring pressure setting. Get clouds under 1mn now... still not able to qualify them of thick but definitly visible (under the light). Taste is a lot better than I was expecting for and very similar to the vapman's taste! 2-3 first hits taste like heaven!
The whole unit become very hot (and more resistive to the friction) when approaching vaporisation t°, hot enough I must to take it with a glove or something else while heating only (maybe cause the more closer and intense contact of the hand), did you had the same feeling @kuzko ?
The first heating cycle is the longer, from a cold start you'll have to heat it for +40s, even more but after that a 20-25s heating cycle is enough to get back to temp if you didn't let the unit become too cold again.
My main technic issues was the correct spring pressure and, after 10 bowls I realized I only activated the friction heater in one way but not both , go on and go back, after that I tried to get the heater activated in both way playing with the cord tension... that's work a lot better and shortened my heating time of +50%!
I'm now dreaming about a friction vape where you put the load in after heating to avoid goodies lost while heating and it will add some convection maybe... even more if there is some air inlets through the heating element (copper pan). If this air is coming from inside the unit it would be already pre-heated (since the whole unit become very hot)... but we need a bigger "copper pan" or other heating element with more.... argh I can't find the word.. with more capacity to keep the heat in the time , I mean...
Personnaly I'll love to put it in my daily driver list! but I need to improve my technic.
And after a dozen of sessions I improved my heating technic and spring pressure setting. Get clouds under 1mn now... still not able to qualify them of thick but definitly visible (under the light). Taste is a lot better than I was expecting for and very similar to the vapman's taste! 2-3 first hits taste like heaven!
The whole unit become very hot (and more resistive to the friction) when approaching vaporisation t°, hot enough I must to take it with a glove or something else while heating only (maybe cause the more closer and intense contact of the hand), did you had the same feeling @kuzko ?
The first heating cycle is the longer, from a cold start you'll have to heat it for +40s, even more but after that a 20-25s heating cycle is enough to get back to temp if you didn't let the unit become too cold again.
My main technic issues was the correct spring pressure and, after 10 bowls I realized I only activated the friction heater in one way but not both , go on and go back, after that I tried to get the heater activated in both way playing with the cord tension... that's work a lot better and shortened my heating time of +50%!
I'm now dreaming about a friction vape where you put the load in after heating to avoid goodies lost while heating and it will add some convection maybe... even more if there is some air inlets through the heating element (copper pan). If this air is coming from inside the unit it would be already pre-heated (since the whole unit become very hot)... but we need a bigger "copper pan" or other heating element with more.... argh I can't find the word.. with more capacity to keep the heat in the time , I mean...
Personnaly I'll love to put it in my daily driver list! but I need to improve my technic.
OF
Well-Known Member
If I recall the numbers here, you're way short of the power needed, your ankles and knees would soon give out. An 'exercise bike' (where you can use long muscles under lower stress) or even 'organ grinder' generators used in aircraft and marine emergency radios and rescue beacons could maybe hold up (using shoulder and back muscles). We don't give due credit to the power used from the convenient wall outlet I think.
Treadle sewing machines work because they have a heavy flywheel so you can pull pulses of power when needed in the cycle (needle plunge, bobbin shuttle motion, needle pull, fabric advance and so on) and store mechanical energy in the flywheel between. Unlike us, the total energy needed isn't really all that high.......which is why banks of women ran those machines in 12 hour shifts 'in the good old days'.
OF
Used2use
Sometimes to stupid to become a fool
Guess u are wright thats too less energy created maybe 5-10w (a irrealistic 2 ton fly wheel as energy storage could do it), main problem of that vape is the efficency of converting rotation energy into heat
should be a function of friction force and rotation speed, somewhere is a max efficency (speed should be squared, so 2 max by theory with one max only plausible for mathematics)
With a bicycle 300w is no problem even for hours - but it just wouldn't look so cool
Next Version should be a bow drill Vape - back to stoneage vaping
should be a function of friction force and rotation speed, somewhere is a max efficency (speed should be squared, so 2 max by theory with one max only plausible for mathematics)
With a bicycle 300w is no problem even for hours - but it just wouldn't look so cool
Next Version should be a bow drill Vape - back to stoneage vaping
Last edited:
PPN
Volute of Vapor
Here I am: nice taste and clouds after a 40s heating cycle, perfect!
There was not enough pressure (spinning wood on heating pan). More pressure shortened the heating time and heat the bowl not all the unit.
But it is the summer.... weather is hot, I have a lot of physicals jobs during the day and I prefer to use something more relax for my pauses. It will see more uses this winter!
There was not enough pressure (spinning wood on heating pan). More pressure shortened the heating time and heat the bowl not all the unit.
But it is the summer.... weather is hot, I have a lot of physicals jobs during the day and I prefer to use something more relax for my pauses. It will see more uses this winter!
PPN
Volute of Vapor
OMG!! Today I quasi-combusted (got a black abv and scortched taste) with the Element and cannot believe my eyes when I saw this big cloud , when you got the right technique you can get pretty high temperatures... I'll try some kief soon.
But my bowl is very dirty, like coated with overheated resin and I'm unable to scrape it out with a dabber...
But my bowl is very dirty, like coated with overheated resin and I'm unable to scrape it out with a dabber...