Dutch Government to Ban Tourists From Cannabis Shops
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OhTheAgony
here for the chicks
Yeah, the law still stands as it enables them to refuse access to foreigners in area's close to the borders where there are bigger problems with drug-tourisme (at least that is my impression of the whole thing). They leave it to local (municipal?) governments if and how they enforce those laws for now, although it is said that the ban on foreigners should become nationwide eventually.
djonkoman
Well-Known Member
it allrevolves around one word the minister says, I don't really have an english word for it, but the point is the law still stands, and still will be implemented, but every municipality may decide for themselves when the law will come in effect in their municipality, and they can also choose to implenment certain things immediatly while waiting with other parts(for example increase the limit around schools, but keep serving to foreigners)
eventually it has to be implented nationwide, but no timescale is set, it could take years, or longer, or shorter. and ofcourse the next government could change it
eventually it has to be implented nationwide, but no timescale is set, it could take years, or longer, or shorter. and ofcourse the next government could change it
tepictoton
Well-Known Member
just shows how seriously they uphold the law (grondwet) themselves...this is al complete and utter bullshit, politicians don't know wich way to turn their jackets anymore and the general public is stll as unaware as they have ever been over here...
general opinion is we don't care. As soon as you ask anybody with a retail store in the cities that have been affected, Maastricht for example, they will tell you please let them come back...They might come for the smoke, but will drop into plenty of other stores on their way, they have to parc their car, get something to drink and or eat, and so on...
general opinion is we don't care. As soon as you ask anybody with a retail store in the cities that have been affected, Maastricht for example, they will tell you please let them come back...They might come for the smoke, but will drop into plenty of other stores on their way, they have to parc their car, get something to drink and or eat, and so on...
Gunky
Well-Known Member
I hope they get it all sorted out so that foreigners can go to the coffee shops. I visited Amsterdam and other places in Holland 15 or 20 years ago and loved it. They actually had hash from the middle east and asia, which I hadn't seen in a long time in the US. Yes, I was attracted by the liberal attitude toward cannabis, but what a lovely place to visit, walk around, drink beer, eat Indonesian food, spend money!
OhTheAgony
here for the chicks
This is just a general problem with decriminalization the way I see it. It obviously creates a vague and shady environment if you allow the lovely flower to be used and sold, but not to be grown.
Legalization is the only way to go imo. But like in most parts of the world it may still be a while before we'll get there, IF it ever happens
As far as I can tell the general dutch public doesn't have a problem with tourists coming here to enjoy mj Vorrange. But I'm pro of course, and I can't really tell how objective my view is since most of the people I surround myself with are kindred spirits. I'm sure there is a certain percentage of conservative dutchies who would love to see nothing but the complete ban of the 'devilish herbs'.
We do have at least two different types of drug tourists though. The ones that are causing problems in the border regions really aren't tourists, but rather criminals that come here to pick up as much weed as possible to sell against a profit back wherever it is they come from. French thugs and gang members can be particularly ruthless and violent in their methods. Carjacking and armed threads seem common practice for them and they are really the ones that cause the most problems resulting in that they are being used as the biggest excuse for this hole weedcard thing and everything that follows it.
Our government also has been under pressure from certain EU countries to stop the decriminalization of marijuana for years now, which I believe also plays a role in the whole weedcard idea.
Legalization is the only way to go imo. But like in most parts of the world it may still be a while before we'll get there, IF it ever happens
As far as I can tell the general dutch public doesn't have a problem with tourists coming here to enjoy mj Vorrange. But I'm pro of course, and I can't really tell how objective my view is since most of the people I surround myself with are kindred spirits. I'm sure there is a certain percentage of conservative dutchies who would love to see nothing but the complete ban of the 'devilish herbs'.
We do have at least two different types of drug tourists though. The ones that are causing problems in the border regions really aren't tourists, but rather criminals that come here to pick up as much weed as possible to sell against a profit back wherever it is they come from. French thugs and gang members can be particularly ruthless and violent in their methods. Carjacking and armed threads seem common practice for them and they are really the ones that cause the most problems resulting in that they are being used as the biggest excuse for this hole weedcard thing and everything that follows it.
Our government also has been under pressure from certain EU countries to stop the decriminalization of marijuana for years now, which I believe also plays a role in the whole weedcard idea.
djonkoman
Well-Known Member
I didn't even know about those french gangsters. but I rarely venture outside the north, and that's a southern thing.
what I heard as the mjor problem werte that mostly the belgan drugtourists don't park at assigned places but just somewhere along the street in the inner city, close to the coffeeshop they go to, and therefor block the streets etc. altough now some are complaining about decreased income trough parking tickets.
those tourists also go home immediatly after buying weed, while the tourists in amsterdam pay for a place to sleep, to eat, experience other tourist atraction etc and so spend a lot more money inside the netherlands, while causing less trouble.
altough for the general public also those tourists can be a bit weird/clueless/completely unaware of where they are, I remember one time when I was a kid(and barely knew anything about weed), I was in a harbor in a small city with my uncle and some tourist aproached us asking where the coffeeshop was(this was a city with no coffeeshops, nor where there any coffeeshops in neighbouring cities or villages)
also when I was a little older, but didn't smoke weed yet, I drove to school and was asked by some tourist for the way to the coffeeshop, wich at that time I didn't know yet.
I think that is one of the images the general public here has about those tourists, they randomly ask anyone where the coffeeshop is, while a lot of those people have never been in a coffeeshop and don't know where they are. and those tourists can be so clueless that they ask where the coffeeshop is while the closest coffeeshop is 50 kilometres away.
but just like OTA I mostly know the view of those who visit the coffeeshop, so most of my insoght of what the general public might think of those tourists is what I remember I thought from before I started smoking
what I heard as the mjor problem werte that mostly the belgan drugtourists don't park at assigned places but just somewhere along the street in the inner city, close to the coffeeshop they go to, and therefor block the streets etc. altough now some are complaining about decreased income trough parking tickets.
those tourists also go home immediatly after buying weed, while the tourists in amsterdam pay for a place to sleep, to eat, experience other tourist atraction etc and so spend a lot more money inside the netherlands, while causing less trouble.
altough for the general public also those tourists can be a bit weird/clueless/completely unaware of where they are, I remember one time when I was a kid(and barely knew anything about weed), I was in a harbor in a small city with my uncle and some tourist aproached us asking where the coffeeshop was(this was a city with no coffeeshops, nor where there any coffeeshops in neighbouring cities or villages)
also when I was a little older, but didn't smoke weed yet, I drove to school and was asked by some tourist for the way to the coffeeshop, wich at that time I didn't know yet.
I think that is one of the images the general public here has about those tourists, they randomly ask anyone where the coffeeshop is, while a lot of those people have never been in a coffeeshop and don't know where they are. and those tourists can be so clueless that they ask where the coffeeshop is while the closest coffeeshop is 50 kilometres away.
but just like OTA I mostly know the view of those who visit the coffeeshop, so most of my insoght of what the general public might think of those tourists is what I remember I thought from before I started smoking
Havent been paying attention but from what I read a couple months ago i thought amsterdam was fine for tourists, at least till 2013 when they were trying to make itillegal for tourist everywhere. Also I read that the first day the law went into effect a coffeeshop owner first refused foreigners for a couple hours, the foreigners went to thelocal police to complain about discrimination. Then later the same day the same coffeeshop owner began selling to foreigners again and got a citation from the policewhich he then appealed. Wasting the time of many and I hope showing the governement how stupid they are
NoddingDonkey
Oil, Glass & I'm a bit of an ass
Official update: Coffee shop district almost went entirely out of business and the pass was abolished in a very short time span. The Dam is all good all day no matter where you call home
m0sh
Singer Song Writer Stoner
Wow that was fast...but please don't hate me but I hope they ****ing do turn out of business...with the prices today there's no reason to go to the Dam!
Havelock Vetenari
Patrician
The wietpas might be dropped,but the idea of only selling to inhabitants is still on...
As cannabis has always remained illegal here,but the rules simply weren't enforced,this might be a return to the old way of doing things(gedoogbeleid,,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gedogen, http://www.government.nl/issues/alcohol-and-drugs/drugs/soft-drug-policy
But if they want,they can still ban the tourists and they still have a stranglehold on the shops.
FYI.
As cannabis has always remained illegal here,but the rules simply weren't enforced,this might be a return to the old way of doing things(gedoogbeleid,,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gedogen, http://www.government.nl/issues/alcohol-and-drugs/drugs/soft-drug-policy
But if they want,they can still ban the tourists and they still have a stranglehold on the shops.
FYI.
vorrange
Vapor.wise
I think the problem is not the tourists.. i really don't have much knowledge about the situation really but while i was there, 2 years ago, i noticed a couple of things.
First, there were dealers on the streets, and i'm guessing it was not MJ they were selling. That gives a bad vibe to that area.. this was in one of the touristy streets, i don't know the name by heart.
Second, the red light district also had a bad vibe with the girls in the windows. The problem wasn't exactly the girls, it was the atmosphere of the place, much darker streets, sometimes dirty and an overall unclean feeling, unlike the rest of amsterdam.
I did not notice this near the coffeeshops, or with the people who were outside the coffeeshops.
So, in my opinion, the whole cannabis/coffeshops/wietpas situation, is being thrown at tourists as the ones to blame.. and maybe, there are many tourists who have a general shitty attitude and cause problems where they are, talk very loud, drink a lot, stuff like that.. and i am sure some stupid young adults eat shrooms and don't respect where they are, who's around or what time it is.
I remember, being in my hostel room with my gf, and i heard people shouting outside, they were obviously intoxicated with something (alcohol, cannabis, shrooms or something else, i really don't know.. ), so i understand the tourist argument.
It is just to flimsy for me to wrap my head around that. Clean the streets, ask the dealers to get the fuck out because honestly they don't even pretend they are doing something, they just stand by the doorways and smoke splifs. Don't allow for 30 coffeeshops in the same street. Have police doing rounds at night in those areas so people remember to behave.
And finally, educate the tourists how to act.
Amsterdam won't stop being the way it is just because some government decided to pass some law. The attitude of the city towards drugs goes back centuries, it has gone through times much more rigid than now..
And about the people who go to holland just to get dope, well.. my take is that will keep happening even if there is a wietpas. It is silly to believe it will stop. There needs to be other measures to the issue, because clearly this one will just help put a lot of people out of business at once and just harm a lot of inocent people who made their lives around the tourists with hostels, restaurants, bike renting, coffeeshops, etc that will suffer because there is a segment of people who will stop visiting Amsterdam, and most of this segment will be abiding citizens, not outlaws, dealers and troublemakers.
tl;dr: this is bullshit, the problem is not the tourists. Its the people who go there just to get some and don't even stay more than 3hours in the place where they go to buy. Other measures should be enforced.
First, there were dealers on the streets, and i'm guessing it was not MJ they were selling. That gives a bad vibe to that area.. this was in one of the touristy streets, i don't know the name by heart.
Second, the red light district also had a bad vibe with the girls in the windows. The problem wasn't exactly the girls, it was the atmosphere of the place, much darker streets, sometimes dirty and an overall unclean feeling, unlike the rest of amsterdam.
I did not notice this near the coffeeshops, or with the people who were outside the coffeeshops.
So, in my opinion, the whole cannabis/coffeshops/wietpas situation, is being thrown at tourists as the ones to blame.. and maybe, there are many tourists who have a general shitty attitude and cause problems where they are, talk very loud, drink a lot, stuff like that.. and i am sure some stupid young adults eat shrooms and don't respect where they are, who's around or what time it is.
I remember, being in my hostel room with my gf, and i heard people shouting outside, they were obviously intoxicated with something (alcohol, cannabis, shrooms or something else, i really don't know.. ), so i understand the tourist argument.
It is just to flimsy for me to wrap my head around that. Clean the streets, ask the dealers to get the fuck out because honestly they don't even pretend they are doing something, they just stand by the doorways and smoke splifs. Don't allow for 30 coffeeshops in the same street. Have police doing rounds at night in those areas so people remember to behave.
And finally, educate the tourists how to act.
Amsterdam won't stop being the way it is just because some government decided to pass some law. The attitude of the city towards drugs goes back centuries, it has gone through times much more rigid than now..
And about the people who go to holland just to get dope, well.. my take is that will keep happening even if there is a wietpas. It is silly to believe it will stop. There needs to be other measures to the issue, because clearly this one will just help put a lot of people out of business at once and just harm a lot of inocent people who made their lives around the tourists with hostels, restaurants, bike renting, coffeeshops, etc that will suffer because there is a segment of people who will stop visiting Amsterdam, and most of this segment will be abiding citizens, not outlaws, dealers and troublemakers.
tl;dr: this is bullshit, the problem is not the tourists. Its the people who go there just to get some and don't even stay more than 3hours in the place where they go to buy. Other measures should be enforced.
Havelock Vetenari
Patrician
Well it's as if the devil was reading with,today on our national news :
http://nos.nl/artikel/456172-buitenlander-kan-blijven-blowen.html
There is no english option,so i'll summarise a bit.
Comes down to the important municipalities(counties?) for most of the 'drug'-tourists(the ones containing Rotterdam,Amsterdam and The Hague)will not be enforcing the rules by checking their domiciles,so no change there then.
The problem is the legislators don't seem to know what the hell they want,logic would dictate just making it completely legal,but that is still too problematic with surrounding counties(treaties and such).
Sadly logic sometimes takes a runner in these matters and our dearly beloved(great big dollops of sarcasm there FYI
)minister Opstelten doesn't seem to have single clue on the matter at all.
http://nos.nl/artikel/456172-buitenlander-kan-blijven-blowen.html
There is no english option,so i'll summarise a bit.
Comes down to the important municipalities(counties?) for most of the 'drug'-tourists(the ones containing Rotterdam,Amsterdam and The Hague)will not be enforcing the rules by checking their domiciles,so no change there then.
The problem is the legislators don't seem to know what the hell they want,logic would dictate just making it completely legal,but that is still too problematic with surrounding counties(treaties and such).
Sadly logic sometimes takes a runner in these matters and our dearly beloved(great big dollops of sarcasm there FYI
)minister Opstelten doesn't seem to have single clue on the matter at all.
Gunky
Well-Known Member
As a tourist (and perhaps someday resident) I am glad they are figuring out some compromise. Next time I go I will be sure to sample lots of wares but I promise to stay and spend money, take public transportation and not be unruly. I'll never forget the first time I went into one of those places. I think it was the Grasshopper in the red light district. Holy Cow!
OhTheAgony
here for the chicks
I was gonna jump in but Havelock pretty much said it all.
I am happy to add that my city is among those that will continue to welcome tourists and other foreigners in their coffeeshops in 2013. What 2014 will bring only time can tell, but lets not spend the whole year speculating about that & just enjoy the one to come for now
Gelukkig nieuwjaar allemaal, & denk om de vingers!
I am happy to add that my city is among those that will continue to welcome tourists and other foreigners in their coffeeshops in 2013. What 2014 will bring only time can tell, but lets not spend the whole year speculating about that & just enjoy the one to come for now
Gelukkig nieuwjaar allemaal, & denk om de vingers!
I'm glad a good compromise was reached.. they still don't address the real problem and the real troublemakers.
Havelock Vetenari
Patrician
Well to show you how logic this same minister Opstelten is,he has publicly approved getting the 'help' of good old fashioned scamartists in serious crimes...
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2012/12/police_may_use_psychics_in_exc.php
Sigh...sometimes you lose all hope for mankind.![:\](/i/s/hmm.gif "Hmm :\")
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2012/12/police_may_use_psychics_in_exc.php
Sigh...sometimes you lose all hope for mankind.
Havelock Vetenari
Patrician
I haven't lit a single piece of fireworks in a long time and am pretty sure i never will again(long story/storiesGelukkig nieuwjaar allemaal, & denk om de vingers!
),so all my digits and eyes are in no danger.
Happy new year to you too and be safe as well!
OhTheAgony
here for the chicks
I figured this might b a good place to leave it. For everyone that keeps calling my country Holland, and for everyone else that likes to brush up on their history as well:
Gunky
Well-Known Member
OK sorry for calling it Holland. I suppose I should know better after listening to the English service of Radio Nederland for many years when I lived in the far east. But you know here in America when I was a boy we called it Holland. Kind of like the way we refer to 'China' but this name has never been what the Chinese called themselves, though long ago there was a state called Qin (or Chin).
Damn. That's probably pretty confusing. I say probably because I was way too stoned to understand any of it. Thanks OTA.
And the soccer uniforms are all orange because....???
Havelock Vetenari
Patrician
Hehe,don't worry i was struggling at some bits too.
The best suggestion in there,which i think i also made in one of my first posts,is to just call us Dutch.
The orange is thanks to our 'dear' royal family the House of Oranje-Nassau(=orange nassau).
The best suggestion in there,which i think i also made in one of my first posts,is to just call us Dutch.
The orange is thanks to our 'dear' royal family the House of Oranje-Nassau(=orange nassau).
newVaper420
Vapor Enthusiast
So did Amsterdam ban tourists from the coffee shops? Or are we still allowed in?