Does anybody track their extraction efficiency?
- Thread starter Stu
- Start date
Frederick McGuire
Aggressively Loungey
We are taling about very small numbers here. At 0.12g for a load, 0.01g difference can be an 8% swing...
As I mentioned, these are very preliminary numbers. Most of them are from a single test, but as I run multiple tests at each weight, I expect the numbers to normalize. Freddy's correct in that .01 makes a big difference at such low weights. I wish I had a scale that went to .001g, but I don't.
we need temperatures and packing density ... more facts!!!
Ballbuster!
Just kidding.... Temp for my testing purposes is Noon on my Cloud (#1). If I could figure out how to get a good temperature with my infrared thermometer, I would. I don't pack at all. Medium grind, loose pack.
meh, infrared thermometer - those fuckers need to be calibrated. Just go get a digital BBQ thermometer -- the kind with the spike -- take it apart and put the probe inside the ELB.
it's in your lineup: Cloud -- digital temperature control. Now you just need the $10 BBQ thermometer. (hint: kitchen goods @Target)
cellardoor
Well-Known Member
In order to do more accurate testing, I would need a device that's has digital temperature control. I insist on an all glass path, so that limits my options. If only someone could create such a device for me to use....
Somebody should tell DV to send you an Ascent for the purpose of science.
Actually, I was hoping for a Bud Toaster, but Hippie Dickie doesn't seem to be picking up on my subtle hints.Somebody should tell DV to send you an Ascent for the purpose of science.
I'd really like to know why that is too. Stu, are you inhaling for the exact same amount of time and at the same speed each hit?
There just might be too many variables to accurately model extraction through just one metric. We need more science!!!
There just might be too many variables to accurately model extraction through just one metric. We need more science!!!
vorrange
Vapor.wise
I think if you repeat enough times, other less important variables like draw speed/duration, will lose its weight among the other more important variables.
One thing that is not related to the subject at hand but i realized while looking at the last chart:
Combusting burns 30% of cannabinoids available, so Vaporizing is at least 30% more efficient.
Stu - sorry, bad data ... larger loads will depress the temperature because of the extra trichomes and plant material absorbing more heat. the chart just shows how much more the setting should be increased to maintain the same temperature as for the smaller loads to get the same extraction --- AS INDICATED BY YOUR DIGITAL BBQ THERMOMETER!!!
Are you doing the run for the same length of time for each load or until the exact same ABV color is achieved? Where's the consistency?
Are you doing the run for the same length of time for each load or until the exact same ABV color is achieved? Where's the consistency?
vorrange
Vapor.wise
What do you mean by "the setting should be increased"? I always thought that bigger loads will amount to a rise in temperature, at least i notice i have a darker ABV if i use more in my logs (fixed temp), but i also notice in my other vaporizers.
Since the amount of hot air/heat that is put out by a vaporizer is finite, it's going to be equally (sort of) distributed among all of the cold plant material you put in there. Larger loads will take longer to heat up to a full vaporizing temperature, so if the setting is increased for larger loads you can vaporize a larger amount in the same amount of time you could vaporize a smaller one.
Roger D
Vapor Wizard
That is the interesting point.
I have been keeping on loading around .1
My flowers are now always placed in my improved dessication jar. To desiccate regular salt is not the best ; Other minerals plays a huge role. I put 400g of fine Himalaya salt -that I heat up to 200°C to remove any moisture- in the bottom of my jar, the flowers are contained in a vegetable based plastic cup inside the glass container, so the herbs are almost sealed away, but there is just enough communication between the two spaces to allow the herbs to get drier than you've even seen. The only con is that it removes a bit of the taste.
No popcorn taste, evenly cooked goods, easy grinding.. Moisture in the material is a disturbance in the vaporization process. Like packing too much is. It need more energy to heat up and reach vaporization point. In fact the more you put, the more you have to pump with your lungs to get something.
vorrange
Vapor.wise
I understand but, at some point i rise them what you need to until you extract all of it. And, i always adjust intuitively.. meaning, i don't compare temperatures or bowl colour to know i need to rise temperature.. i do it by gauging vapour output, again, intuitevely. So, one would think that, no matter the bowl size, the extraction should be the same although the rate at which we rise the temperature might differ between a larger vs a smaller bowl.
What is left to discover IMO, is if, the browner ABV is a result of conduction because a bigger bowl also means a tighter bowl, and the herb touching the outside bowl walls. Because i find this happens with my logs, and i can't change temps there.
He's running a MiniVap though, and that's pretty much entirely convection. The log's do such a good job extracting because they mix convection with conduction. I think the conduction component changes things significantly when it comes to the character of the vapor. I find conduction vapor to be thicker, heavier and harsher, probably because it's extracting a different set of molecules than convection does. Vapes like the iolite or pax just put me to sleep.
Log vapes though, and by extention, the solo are a happy medium for me though. I'd like to see Rogers ABV though, you can tell what kind of heating action was used by the color and consistency of the vaporized goods.
Log vapes though, and by extention, the solo are a happy medium for me though. I'd like to see Rogers ABV though, you can tell what kind of heating action was used by the color and consistency of the vaporized goods.
I don't think the data is bad. Is it perfect? No. Is it incomplete? Yes. Is it accounting for the million variables that could affect it? No. If my results expose the need to increase temp to compensate for larger loads, then so be it. I'm just reporting my own personal findings to whomever might find it interesting.
For the record I end each test when the vapor becomes unsatisfactory to me. This has resulted in quite consistent ABV. Once I get that federal grant for vapor extraction analysis approved, I'll be able to splurge on a BBQ thermometer.
vorrange
Vapor.wise
I wonder if there is still some conduction in the form of radiant heat and also, the bowl walls.. it might not be as conductive of heat as glass, but does it not get hot as well? If it does, then there is conduction for sure.
And i don't think it extracts a different set, it just removes too much oxigen from the plant, to the point of burning and thus, creating combustion byproducts like benzene. And i think this can happen in a purely convection environment as well, provided the temperature would need to be higher than with conduction alone.
I believe the logs do such a good job at extracting because they have a very high ratio of convection/conduction, the conduction allows to extract some compounds that would need higher air temperature to be extracted and those are the CBD/CBNs, but without the main convection character of the logs, extraction wouldn't be as effective/pleasant since taste would vanish in a couple of hits.
There's definatly a small degree of conduction with the cloud, both from the glass walls and the SS mesh heating up to vaporization temperature. I've never used or experienced the MiniVAP, so I don't know how much seepage there is.
I think your spot on about the oxygen and byproducts. Conduction heat is a much more sustained and transmissible kind of heat, so it makes sense it get's closer to combustion.
I think your spot on about the oxygen and byproducts. Conduction heat is a much more sustained and transmissible kind of heat, so it makes sense it get's closer to combustion.
Roger D
Vapor Wizard
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/rezblock.8060/page-10#post-350860
It does have a different quality of vapor for sure.
I pull & shake the basket till there is no more vapors coming
all we really know is that higher heat extracts more vaporizable contents -- how much of the vapor is THC is not measured.
and i suggest the variation in Stu's chart from 0.07 to 0.16 is due to different packing style, after which the load finally becomes dense and "efficiency" drops.
and i suggest the variation in Stu's chart from 0.07 to 0.16 is due to different packing style, after which the load finally becomes dense and "efficiency" drops.