Divine Tribe atty's

[Volteric]

My eLeaf Pico mod came. Anybody got an opinion about my TC settings? Would really like instant draw, smoothe, clean and cool vape clouds without spatter. Thanks again for everybody's input. I see already why this makes sense over VW mods. As to wax pens: Pfft! Childs play!

Also, TC mode compared to VW is the difference say between a firefly/mflb to Pax. The latter require technique. The Pax is just plain easy, no technique required.

I should be in Nickel mode for this 2.7??

 

[Vape Donkey 650]

It's nice to see people here, one after another, getting new donuts and temp control mods. Cutting edge vape game for concentrates and portables....it's slowly catching on

TC-Ni mode is fine for vaping with the donut, but you will want to start at a lower temp. Try 300-320F to see what you like for cloud production.

18w is fine on temp control mode with the pico (not VW) That will produce the near-instant draw that you demand. With a loaded up donut, it will produce a thick cloud in under 2 seconds from you pressing the button. All vape, no smoke.

On my evics and cuboids, I like 25w for the "instant draw" but with the pico, I feel that the chipset is just a little bit slower in reading the feedback from the donut's heat and resistance rise. 25w seemed a little too much, almost charring the donut on a full load, so I backed down to 20w on TC with the pico.

If you want to input values into the mod for TCR mode (245 is a good figure) then you will want to start at least at 380-390F.

The only real difference between that and TC-Ni around 320F is just the numbers displayed. But the vape you get and what the mod is doing is just about the same.

 

[Volteric]

It's nice to see people here, one after another, getting new donuts and temp control mods. Cutting edge vape game for concentrates and portables....it's slowly catching on

TC-Ni mode is fine for vaping with the donut, but you will want to start at a lower temp. Try 300-320F to see what you like for cloud production.

18w is fine on temp control mode with the pico (not VW) That will produce the near-instant draw that you demand. With a loaded up donut, it will produce a thick cloud in under 2 seconds from you pressing the button. All vape, no smoke.

On my evics and cuboids, I like 25w for the "instant draw" but with the pico, I feel that the chipset is just a little bit slower in reading the feedback from the donut's heat and resistance rise. 25w seemed a little too much, almost charring the donut on a full load, so I backed down to 20w on TC with the pico.

If you want to input values into the mod for TCR mode (245 is a good figure) then you will want to start at least at 380-390F.

The only real difference between that and TC-Ni around 320F is just the numbers displayed. But the vape you get and what the mod is doing is just about the same.

I'm going to give that a try: 20w, 320, Ni mode!

 

[PoopMachine]

So I think one of my attys may have died but maybe not. I was cleaning it, had the Cuboid in Power mode set at 15W and was just pulsing it, blowing through it, blowing on it to keep it cool and everything was fine. I was actually done cleaning it and was wiping it out with an alcohol wipe and the base unscrewed from the mod a little, I screwed it back on but when I went to pulse it one more time to burn off the alcohol, I got "No atomizer present." I swapped back to the deep atty and it picked it right up and I reconfigured it as a new atty and it worked fine. Switched back to the other one and "No atomizer found."

I know this happens, Ive seen people mention it but I thought taking it off and putting it back on would have fixed it. Is there something else I can try or do I just need to order a new one from Matt?

 

[OF]

18w is fine on temp control mode with the pico (not VW) That will produce the near-instant draw that you demand. With a loaded up donut, it will produce a thick cloud in under 2 seconds from you pressing the button. All vape, no smoke.

On my evics and cuboids, I like 25w for the "instant draw" but with the pico, I feel that the chipset is just a little bit slower in reading the feedback from the donut's heat and resistance rise. 25w seemed a little too much, almost charring the donut on a full load, so I backed down to 20w on TC with the pico.

The only real difference between that and TC-Ni around 320F is just the numbers displayed. But the vape you get and what the mod is doing is just about the same.

I think it should be added, for the sake of those who haven't researched a lot, that Matt (Mister DT his own self) says to never use that much power, even in cleaning. I'm not saying pushing the power up for whatever reason is hard on the device, he is! IIRC he said something to the effect 'all the doughnuts he knows that have 'burned out' were run at 14 Watts or over. Yes, the maximum temperature should be controlled by the TC function but the rate of rise of temperatures seems to be causing stresses as the metal heater element as it tries to expand faster than the ceramic substrate and the glass covering over that? I believe he said something like 'please don't run the doughnuts over 14Watts'?

Before guys jump into 'I read it on the web' mode and crank the power up they might want to look into it first? Each guy can make his own call, of course, but IMO that should be as informed a decision as possible? Guys should know the maker's advice and agree running them that 'hot' blows their chance of a warranty replacement?

The point that 'it's just what's displayed' is a good one for folks to understand I think. The M values we enter, along with the temperature target are used to calculate a resistance target ('rise of .XX Ohms to reach the target temperature) in some arbitrary 'program count units' that are 'neither fish nor foul' but is the number the mod uses to do TC no matter what it displays. The display (in degrees F or C) is simply for us. Everything has to be converted to 'ones and zeros' internally before use. That is what we see displayed 'after the fact', something like using the kM scale on your speedometer to 'measure' your speed in kMPH instead of MPH. To the cruse control, counting tailshaft revolutions not distance or time directly, nothing has changed from the basic regulation function? It still applies power until it gets 'YY RPMs on the drive to the wheels' (even if the wheels are off the ground and the car is really not moving).

I'm going to give that a try: 20w, 320, Ni mode!

Your call, but I think you might want to research some and reconsider?

So I think one of my attys may have died but maybe not. I was cleaning it, had the Cuboid in Power mode set at 15W and was just pulsing it, blowing through it, blowing on it to keep it cool and everything was fine.

I know this happens, Ive seen people mention it but I thought taking it off and putting it back on would have fixed it. Is there something else I can try or do I just need to order a new one from Matt?

Bummer. Could well have failed because of the power, from what Matt said that would seem to be possible/likely?

OTOH, one of the 'weak links' in the system is the contact to the center pin in the 510 connector. The lead is stuffed through the gasket you can see in the connector from the inside, is cut to length at 'just flush' then the center pin is jammed in forcing the lead aside to make contact and relying on the rubber gasket to keep solid contact......which it obviously usually does.

But that center pin 'floats' and can get pushed up by mounting on a mod. This has been reported here several times, I had a 'brand new' one and one 'in service' that developed this on a 'cart change' (one of the reasons I like having enough mods around so I don't have to 'share') do this, I've seen it twice in the last several months. Both times modest 'reseating' on the center pin fixed it. I just gently pry it up a bit (once with fine wire cutters, once with an Exacto knife tip), a bit of a wiggle and pushing it back not quite so far in fixed both cases 'for good'.

Worth a try IMO, otherwise a replacement is cheap enough I think, but I'd avoid that much power. No, wait, I already do avoid it on Matt's advice.......I guess I meant 'I'd recommend you avoid it' as well? An avoidable risk.

Best wishes to all. The Fourth of July is at hand, big time deal for some of us Yanks (although I understand they have a Fourth of July in England too?). For me DT has a role to play there. I've got some very tasty CO2 oil that splatters something fierce. Come the day it goes into a new shallow atty with a glass top I've set aside. With good light it should be quite festive.......

OF

 

[Steven]

I think it should be added, for the sake of those who haven't researched a lot, that Matt (Mister DT his own self) says to never use that much power, even in cleaning. I'm not saying pushing the power up for whatever reason is hard on the device, he is! IIRC he said something to the effect 'all the doughnuts he knows that have 'burned out' were run at 14 Watts or over. Yes, the maximum temperature should be controlled by the TC function but the rate of rise of temperatures seems to be causing stresses as the metal heater element as it tries to expand faster than the ceramic substrate and the glass covering over that? I believe he said something like 'please don't run the doughnuts over 14Watts'?

Before guys jump into 'I read it on the web' mode and crank the power up they might want to look into it first? Each guy can make his own call, of course, but IMO that should be as informed a decision as possible? Guys should know the maker's advice and agree running them that 'hot' blows their chance of a warranty replacement?

The point that 'it's just what's displayed' is a good one for folks to understand I think. The M values we enter, along with the temperature target are used to calculate a resistance target ('rise of .XX Ohms to reach the target temperature) in some arbitrary 'program count units' that are 'neither fish nor foul' but is the number the mod uses to do TC no matter what it displays. The display (in degrees F or C) is simply for us. Everything has to be converted to 'ones and zeros' internally before use. That is what we see displayed 'after the fact', something like using the kM scale on your speedometer to 'measure' your speed in kMPH instead of MPH. To the cruse control, counting tailshaft revolutions not distance or time directly, nothing has changed from the basic regulation function? It still applies power until it gets 'YY RPMs on the drive to the wheels' (even if the wheels are off the ground and the car is really not moving).



Your call, but I think you might want to research some and reconsider?



Bummer. Could well have failed because of the power, from what Matt said that would seem to be possible/likely?

OTOH, one of the 'weak links' in the system is the contact to the center pin in the 510 connector. The lead is stuffed through the gasket you can see in the connector from the inside, is cut to length at 'just flush' then the center pin is jammed in forcing the lead aside to make contact and relying on the rubber gasket to keep solid contact......which it obviously usually does.

But that center pin 'floats' and can get pushed up by mounting on a mod. This has been reported here several times, I had a 'brand new' one and one 'in service' that developed this on a 'cart change' (one of the reasons I like having enough mods around so I don't have to 'share') do this, I've seen it twice in the last several months. Both times modest 'reseating' on the center pin fixed it. I just gently pry it up a bit (once with fine wire cutters, once with an Exacto knife tip), a bit of a wiggle and pushing it back not quite so far in fixed both cases 'for good'.

Worth a try IMO, otherwise a replacement is cheap enough I think, but I'd avoid that much power. No, wait, I already do avoid it on Matt's advice.......I guess I meant 'I'd recommend you avoid it' as well? An avoidable risk.

Best wishes to all. The Fourth of July is at hand, big time deal for some of us Yanks (although I understand they have a Fourth of July in England too?). For me DT has a role to play there. I've got some very tasty CO2 oil that splatters something fierce. Come the day it goes into a new shallow atty with a glass top I've set aside. With good light it should be quite festive.......

OF

I see a lot of new names here on this forum. Welcome all and hope you get your settings dialed in. On that note, those new here should really take OF's advice. OF has paved the way for tcr and many other useful tips for the Dt atty. Every post he posts have sound logic and information that will help anyone willing to read. I also would reconsider powering the dt donut anything higher than 14w. Even at 14 w in Wattage mode, pulsing the power button is required in my opinion, meaning it has the potential to crack the donut if power is not feathered off properly. Listen to the veterans guys. Guys like OF is like an encyclopedia on this stuff

 

[OF]

Even at 14 w in Wattage mode, pulsing the power button is required in my opinion, meaning it has the potential to crack the donut if power is not feathered off properly. Listen to the veterans guys. Guys like OF is like an encyclopedia on this stuff

First off, thank you very much for the kind words, misplaced as they might be. I am, at most, one of many good souls here trying to help out their fellows. I'm just more outspoken?

IMO your very likely to find another in the mirror.

It was pointed out by a co worker years ago, '....yeah, useless trivia is one of the many things he's full of'. My ill spent teacher past, and association with entirely too many Scientists of many stripes over the years, has added the affliction of boring folks to tears with supportive data and such. Folks are welcome to allow their eyes to glass over and move on to the next post as they see fit of course, but it's there for those who care about the 'why'.

Exciting product for sure, lots of sincere information floating around including first hand experiences. Then again I know guys that (still) smoke cigarettes and date married women.......neither of which I can recommend despite some successes. 14 Watts, with careful caution (pulsing to limit) is, I think, the absolute max we should encourage with significant disclaimers. We really want useful information to support informed buying decisions, right?

So thanks again for the support, and same back at ya. You stand accused of trying to help out, and I think I can back that one up too. My advice is to run at 12 Watts with suitable TC numbers, follow 'factory' loading and use instructions and have a few spare DT attys and suitable mods on hand, not only for personal use but to loan out for friends to try out (I have 3 such sets out on evaluation right now, I really should get hot on recovering them.......funny how guys are happy to keep using your gear rather than order their own......).

Feed it good fuel, keep it between the ditches, obey the rules and it's going to deliver a fun ride indeed. Time after time after time. I like that.

OF

 

[Volteric]

@Vape Donkey 650
@OF

I thought possibly I deduced what you thought was optimal on the Pico. I have no pride: if you were me what exact settings would you go with?

 

[Steven]

@Vape Donkey 650
@OF

I thought possibly I deduced what you thought was optimal on the Pico. I have no pride: if you were me what exact settings would you go with?

Honestly nothing against Vape Donkey but I'd go with what OF has to say. Vape Donkey is actually a fairly new addition to the family and has helped out many. Not that that should be the determining factor but OF is the true veteran here

 

[Steven]

First off, thank you very much for the kind words, misplaced as they might be. I am, at most, one of many good souls here trying to help out their fellows. I'm just more outspoken?

IMO your very likely to find another in the mirror.

It was pointed out by a co worker years ago, '....yeah, useless trivia is one of the many things he's full of'. My ill spent teacher past, and association with entirely too many Scientists of many stripes over the years, has added the affliction of boring folks to tears with supportive data and such. Folks are welcome to allow their eyes to glass over and move on to the next post as they see fit of course, but it's there for those who care about the 'why'.

Exciting product for sure, lots of sincere information floating around including first hand experiences. Then again I know guys that (still) smoke cigarettes and date married women.......neither of which I can recommend despite some successes. 14 Watts, with careful caution (pulsing to limit) is, I think, the absolute max we should encourage with significant disclaimers. We really want useful information to support informed buying decisions, right?

So thanks again for the support, and same back at ya. You stand accused of trying to help out, and I think I can back that one up too. My advice is to run at 12 Watts with suitable TC numbers, follow 'factory' loading and use instructions and have a few spare DT attys and suitable mods on hand, not only for personal use but to loan out for friends to try out (I have 3 such sets out on evaluation right now, I really should get hot on recovering them.......funny how guys are happy to keep using your gear rather than order their own......).

Feed it good fuel, keep it between the ditches, obey the rules and it's going to deliver a fun ride indeed. Time after time after time. I like that.

OF

Thanx. That means a lot coming from you. I try to help out as much I can as well but I don't commit too much attention to my posts. I post on my phone in my car on downtime mostly and I don't have the eloquent language to convey my intentions as many on here, so my posts may not come off as i intend I guess. I just really like everything about this product and try to expand its fan base

 

[OF]

@Vape Donkey 650
@OF

I thought possibly I deduced what you thought was optimal on the Pico. I have no pride: if you were me what exact settings would you go with?

Pride? In a place where there are few photos without sunglasses and NOBODY is using their real names? Surely you jest.....

In general I like 245 as a "TCR" value in any of the joytech mods we talk about. Like Pico, VTC Mini, Cuboid and so on. It shouldn't really matter since it's 'code' for the temperature change per degree for that metal, in our case it's about .245% per degree C. That is for every four degrees C the doughnut heats the resistance goes up one percent. That should translate to others, and indeed did so on the Kanger unit I got for a different project.

This should, therefore, give you 'pretty close' control in degrees F or C through the display.

FWIW I usually load a slightly higher and lower value (say 230 and 260?) so I could 'tweak' the temperature a bit but somehow came back to 245 every time?

Honestly nothing against Vape Donkey but I'd go with what OF has to say. Vape Donkey is actually a fairly new addition to the family and has helped out many. Not that that should be the determining factor but OF is the true veteran here

Amen! VD might be new around here, but he surely does contribute. And he has a different perspective on things than most of us do, more in line with the e-cig guys perhaps? Who knows, it's sincere, useful and welcome? Just putting the information out for consideration, sure hope it doesn't discourage our new found friend. I predict more fun and useful stuff to follow.

If it don't rain, and the river don't rise.

Thanx. That means a lot coming from you. I try to help out as much I can as well but I don't commit too much attention to my posts.

Hey, ya earned it, accept it or not. We got pictures.......

I got confused, how does the rest of that change the idea you're not a key player in our little tragic comedy here? So what if it's a bit cryptic sometimes? I guess there are some guys that aren't smart enough to be paying attention missed it..... Stay sharp or lose out.

OF

 

[Volteric]

Pride? In a place where there are few photos without sunglasses and NOBODY is using their real names? Surely you jest.....

In general I like 245 as a "TCR" value in any of the joytech mods we talk about. Like Pico, VTC Mini, Cuboid and so on. It shouldn't really matter since it's 'code' for the temperature change per degree for that metal, in our case it's about .245% per degree C. That is for every four degrees C the doughnut heats the resistance goes up one percent. That should translate to others, and indeed did so on the Kanger unit I got for a different project.

This should, therefore, give you 'pretty close' control in degrees F or C through the display.

FWIW I usually load a slightly higher and lower value (say 230 and 260?) so I could 'tweak' the temperature a bit but somehow came back to 245 every time?



Amen! VD might be new around here, but he surely does contribute. And he has a different perspective on things than most of us do, more in line with the e-cig guys perhaps? Who knows, it's sincere, useful and welcome? Just putting the information out for consideration, sure hope it doesn't discourage our new found friend. I predict more fun and useful stuff to follow.

If it don't rain, and the river don't rise.



Hey, ya earned it, accept it or not. We got pictures.......

I got confused, how does the rest of that change the idea you're not a key player in our little tragic comedy here? So what if it's a bit cryptic sometimes? I guess there are some guys that aren't smart enough to be paying attention missed it..... Stay sharp or lose out.

OF

I havent explored TCR yet. What are your preferences or recommendations for TC with the Pico? temperature and watts? And your reasons why. Thank you.

 

[OF]

I havent explored TCR yet. What are your preferences or recommendations for TC with the Pico? temperature and watts? And your reasons why. Thank you.

Didn't we just do this?

I recommend TCR mode as opposed to Bypass, Wattage and so on, I use "temperature M2' and load 245 in that part of the table. Then I set the power limit at 12.0 Watts (so it doesn't blow the doughnut up) and the temperature to 390F (or use C if you wish, 'bang the end' to change from C to F and back).

When set up my display shows 0.7X with the lock or Ohms sign depending over 12.0W with a full height 390 after that with m2 over F last.

OF

 

[Volteric]

Didn't we just do this?

I recommend TCR mode as opposed to Bypass, Wattage and so on, I use "temperature M2' and load 245 in that part of the table. Then I set the power limit at 12.0 Watts (so it doesn't blow the doughnut up) and the temperature to 390F (or use C if you wish, 'bang the end' to change from C to F and back).

When set up my display shows 0.7X with the lock or Ohms sign depending over 12.0W with a full height 390 after that with m2 over F last.

OF

My confusion. I thought TCR is different than TC.

 

[Melting Pot]

@0F how's it going and TIA
I recently picked up an evic vtc mini seems most prefer it.
Do you use the herb cart or just the oil and do you prefer the deep or shallower version.
How long is heat up on herb cart?
Its not on demand is it?
Trying to get an order together and cant afford to waste.
How long do attys last ? If not abused.
What is a good starter kit with DT?

 

[OF]

My confusion. I thought TCR is different than TC.

Sorta. TC is the broad idea of Temperature Control. One technique of doing that is to take advantage of Temperature Change in Resistance, how resistance change in (some) metals can be used to sense temperature. So TCR is a technique sometimes used in TC. Solo, OTOH, which is also TC (as are a lot of others) uses a different sort of sensing so is TC but not using TCR?

Confused enough, yet?

Do you use the herb cart or just the oil and do you prefer the deep or shallower version.
How long is heat up on herb cart?
Its not on demand is it?
How long do attys last ? If not abused.
What is a good starter kit with DT?

I generally prefer the shallow I guess, easier to load. But with concentrates that splatter a lot, the deeper one gets the nod. It's probably in my mind, but I think the deep ones leak a bit less with overloads? Sometimes.

Herb carts take about 8 seconds to heat as I recall, I think I'm using 24 Watts? You definitely have to stay on top of it, at least I do, stirring seems to help but is kind of a pain so far. It's 'on demand' in the same sort of way say a VG is, you have to heat it for each hit. Was that what you were asking?

Attys seem to do well if not abused, but I'd start with at least two. As a minimum I suggest a deep and shallow base, with at least one 2.5 (I like the clear glass???) and a 2.7 top. Replacement attys can be ordered later with no real price/shipping penalty. I'd also suggest the WPA to match your WT, cheap, well made and effective. You're sure to like it unless you don't have a WT.....in which case you might include that?

OF

 

[Iamlarrytoo]

I just received my All Black Pico all the way from China. My dog is finding the packaging very interesting. I set it to the setting @OF listed above, one small blob on the donut, and fire! Very nice, very smooth, very tasty, and feeling good. I understand the wattage and temperature. The "M" value, which I set at 245 is a mystery to me in regards to what it does. But I am sure after the explanation a few more times it will sink into my head.

Now where did I put that donut? There it is, on the leaf.

Lar

 

[Volteric]

I just received my All Black Pico all the way from China. My dog is finding the packaging very interesting. I set it to the setting @OF listed above, one small blob on the donut, and fire! Very nice, very smooth, very tasty, and feeling good. I understand the wattage and temperature. The "M" value, which I set at 245 is a mystery to me in regards to what it does. But I am sure after the explanation a few more times it will sink into my head.

Now where did I put that donut? There it is, on the leaf.

Lar

I'm usually not this dumb but I'm still confused. On the Pico I went to 320 f @ 12 watts on Ni mode. Is this optimal/safe?

 

[Steven]

I'm usually not this dumb but I'm still confused. On the Pico I went to 320 I f @ 12 watts on Ni mode. Is this optimal/safe?

That's safe my friend. How are your hits? Do you like it to your standards? Does it hit your priorities in a hit? Optimal is actually based on your needs. Play around with the settings. What you have set is a good base I suppose. However, get to know your mod. Try playing with the tcr values as many of us here have suggested. Again try tcr 245. You can also set your other 2 m values at maybe 235 and 255 to switch between them to see what suites you better. Just know that the lower the tcr value, the hotter it will run.

It's all up to you bro. I like to use a tcr of 245 at 12.5 w @ 420F. Just to show everyone has their own sweet spot, OF uses 12-12.5w at 390F with a tcr value of 245. It seems 245 is the general tcr value to use and then from there set watts to 12-12.5 w and the temp. With this setting just know that the first 4 seconds or so will not produce much vapor. If you are short on lung capacity you can increase the Wattage but risk the lifespan of your donut maybe? The setting of tcr 245 12.5w has proven to last over 5 months and going strong for me

 

[Volteric]

That's safe my friend. How are your hits? Do you like it to your standards? Does it hit your priorities in a hit? Optimal is actually based on your needs. Play around with the settings. What you have set is a good base I suppose. However, get to know your mod. Try playing with the tcr values as many of us here have suggested. Again try tcr 245. You can also set your other 2 m values at maybe 235 and 255 to switch between them to see what suites you better. Just know that the lower the tcr value, the hotter it will run.

It's all up to you bro. I like to use a tcr of 245 at 12.5 w @ 420F. Just to show everyone has their own sweet spot, OF uses 12-12.5w at 390F with a tcr value of 245. It seems 245 is the general tcr value to use and then from there set watts to 12-12.5 w and the temp. With this setting just know that the first 4 seconds or so will not produce much vapor. If you are short on lung capacity you can increase the Wattage but risk the lifespan of your donut maybe? The setting of tcr 245 12.5w has proven to last over 5 months and going strong for me

Thanks for not lambasting me. Numbers cause my brain to freeze. Don't know why, but they do. Thanks for the suggestions. I'm not minding the values i have but I don't know what I don't know. ;-)

 

[Steven]

Thanks for not lambasting me. Numbers cause my brain to freeze. Don't know why, but they do. Thanks for the suggestions. I'm not minding the values i have but I don't know what I don't know. ;-)

No worries buddy. Glad to help. I was a bit lost when I first started too. This forum is of great help for sure. Gotcha about the not knowing what you don't know thing haha, i actually was able to comprehend that. Spend some time reading some of the other pages on this thread if you are ever bored. You never know, you might stumble upon things that may help that you never knew to ask. My guess is that discussions of tcr values probably go back 15-20 pages. Tc discussions probably go back 30 pages or so. Really crude estimates

 

[PoopMachine]

Just ordered some more attys from Matt. Hopefully I dont blow the deep one up before my care package arrives.

I personally dont like the deep one. I was getting really frustrated with the whole setup until I switched to the shallow so I only ordered shallow replacements. Im going to have to keep at the deep one for at least the next few days.

I really dont think I blew up the shallow one, I think I may have pulled a wire loose or something because I was wiping it out with an alcohol wipe right before it gave up. It looks great, no cracks, etc, it just doesnt get detected. if someone has a video where these things are being taken apart, Id like to see it so I could try to fix this one.

 

[OF]

Very nice, very smooth, very tasty, and feeling good. I understand the wattage and temperature. The "M" value, which I set at 245 is a mystery to me in regards to what it does. But I am sure after the explanation a few more times it will sink into my head.

Great! Thanks for passing the good word. Glad you're up and running, now to fiddle around a bit with one thing at a time and see what suits you best. But keep the base to come back to?

M values are a scale deal. Like changing kilometers per hour to MPH. In this case it converts from either degrees C or F by using that 'secret correction factor' to come up with a target in 'mod degrees'? That is you can convert to a different scale again that says what percentage of resistance change represents the target temperature. Like judging a car speed by road noises with your eyes closed needs a factor to include if you're riding in a limo or a Camry?

If you change to a different alloy, say SS, you need a different M value (smaller IIRC), where Ti calls for a (larger) value? Kind of 'a way of telling the mod what kind of heater is hooked up.

Hey, maybe it's just magic, who really cares? Just don't lose the magic numbers......

Regards to all

I'm usually not this dumb but I'm still confused. On the Pico I went to 320 f @ 12 watts on Ni mode. Is this optimal/safe?

Safe enough since you limited at 12 Watts, but you never saw "protect" in the display, right? Thinking it's Ni it's misreading the displayed temperature, it's not to be trusted. You can correct the M value or slowly back the setpoint down until it does go into limit 8 or 10 seconds out when fairly empty.

Set to use the 245 value the display will read in real degrees (give or take), ask for 400F and that's what it delivers at "protect" (where you see the power drop off so it doesn't go over temperature?).

I really dont think I blew up the shallow one, I think I may have pulled a wire loose or something because I was wiping it out with an alcohol wipe right before it gave up.

Isn't that the way it always is? The one you don't like can leap out the car window at speed and not get scratched, but the one you like dies with a two foot drop from the sofa to the carpet......

Check around the center pin connection, if you wiggle it too much on the other end the lead can pull up and out of contact. In one I had to gently pull the pin out entirely and fish the lead back down with a needle. Poke around a bit, you can't make it worse, right?

Good luck with it.

OF

 

[Vape Donkey 650]

sigh..... orthodoxy.... dogma..... groupthink ! ! !

I think it should be added, for the sake of those who haven't researched a lot, that Matt (Mister DT his own self) says to never use that much power, even in cleaning. I'm not saying pushing the power up for whatever reason is hard on the device, he is! IIRC he said something to the effect 'all the doughnuts he knows that have 'burned out' were run at 14 Watts or over. Yes, the maximum temperature should be controlled by the TC function but the rate of rise of temperatures seems to be causing stresses as the metal heater element as it tries to expand faster than the ceramic substrate and the glass covering over that? I believe he said something like 'please don't run the doughnuts over 14Watts'?

Before guys jump into 'I read it on the web' mode and crank the power up they might want to look into it first? Each guy can make his own call, of course, but IMO that should be as informed a decision as possible? Guys should know the maker's advice and agree running them that 'hot' blows their chance of a warranty replacement?

Honestly nothing against Vape Donkey but I'd go with what OF has to say. Vape Donkey is actually a fairly new addition to the family and has helped out many. Not that that should be the determining factor but OF is the true veteran here

Thanks Steven. I may not have the science, engineering and math background of OF, nor can I lay claim to having cracked the TCR-code, but I'm not really that new. Let me re-introduce myself from my first post only a couple months ago

I've been buying vape gear from Matt going on 3 years now, all the way back to the v1 ceramic donut, and when we were all still vaping on crappy wick-and-wire skillets for concentrates.

Amen! VD might be new around here, but he surely does contribute. And he has a different perspective on things than most of us do, more in line with the e-cig guys perhaps? Who knows, it's sincere, useful and welcome? Just putting the information out for consideration, sure hope it doesn't discourage our new found friend. I predict more fun and useful stuff to follow.

Thanks, I hope my posts are appreciated, maybe not always fully considered? Let me try to put my base of knowledge and experience in context: I have been vaping for 6 years, vaping concentrates for 4 years, I've never been a tobacco user or "e-juice" vaper, and I am medically incapable of choosing smoking as an intake method. That was a self-inflicted injury on my part So I have a pretty sensitive tract and my body has a low tolerance for non-medical grade substances.

I've been using Matt's donuts since the v1, thru 2.0, 2.5, and even a few early prototypes along the way too. I've been vaping on these things as long as just about anyone else, other than Matt himself.

When the 2.5 came out, with temp control mods following shortly after, it instantly made every other portable concentrate vape I had obsolete.

I've used dozens & dozens of the 2.0 / 2.5 atomizers on 10 different kinds of temp control box mods along the way, on at least 30 different individual mods at least by now. Many of those earlier mods would not let you change the watts in temp control mode, or only within a narrow window.

I've tried vaping in various TC modes anywhere from 10-200w (not always on purpose) and I have never broken a single donut on a properly functioning TC mod from vaping with excess wattage.

I did break one donut on a crappy wotofo mod, an early TC box, that could not read resistance properly and hit it with 75w for way too long. (maybe 3 seconds to crack?) I broke one cleaning on VW mode (not TC) at 15w once, and most of the donuts I've broken (probably 4 or 5) has actually been from agitating the donut itself with a tool in an attempt to scrape / move reclaim, not even when the donut is being powered.

I vaped with the evic on firmware v 1.02 / 1.03 with 75w for a few months on TC-Ni and it never harmed anything, although I later decided that setting was not optimal. Vaped the early evic VTs from 30-60w for months too, I am still using a few of these very same donuts. This does not reduce the life span of your donuts.

I had some istick 40w TC's as well, but I never liked the vape quality these little mods produce. Checked on ineedhemp.com right now, and Matt is still telling people to vape with these on TC-Ni.... guess how many watts the donut sees at first with this mod?

Soooo...I hope I'm not piling it on too high here, or sounding like a dick, but when it comes to wattages, TC, and knowing what are safe and acceptable settings for vaping with our beloved donuts, I do know what I'm talking about.

Vaping at above 30w on TC may not be beneficial in any sense, but on a proper mod and donut, it is perfectly safe. Vaping above 12w on TC, to a reasonable degree, on a quality TC mod, does have many potential benefits, does not need to compromise vape quality and flavor, and !will not! harm your donut. Will it be to the liking of all users? Not necessarily. But you have to try it to find out.

How do you know that TC hits at 17.5 or 25w taste like crap or burns out your donuts if you've never attempted it?

With the exception of the istick 40w perhaps, how many of you have even tried vaping in higher TC wattages? And how many donuts have you busted doing this?

I'm usually not this dumb but I'm still confused. On the Pico I went to 320 f @ 12 watts on Ni mode. Is this optimal/safe?

@Vape Donkey 650
@OF

I thought possibly I deduced what you thought was optimal on the Pico. I have no pride: if you were me what exact settings would you go with?

Well, if I were you, I would try a few settings and decide, because I may not have the exact same preference as you. The main difference between 12 and 20w on your pico will be warm-up time, 4 seconds vs ~1.5 seconds to produce vapor. You'll get more of it, but it will be fairly identical in quality.

If a guy/gal wants a fast-draw hit, why should we discourage him or say it's forbidden or will break his donut?

Lomein posted recently he's vaping some live resin at 9.9w TC; that seems plausible for such a material with a much higher terpene content. Maybe not the type of hit I'd favor, (i'd call for a lower temp but not wattage) but that doesn't invalidate his opinion.

That's the beauty of the DT 2.5 with a good TC mod: it can be pretty easily dialed in to a fairly wide range of users preferences

So why must we go around saying only one setting is valid? Let the people know what is safe, what is reasonable, what the benefits/drawbacks are, and let them decide.

Let's not be dogmatic and rule out reasonable things that we have not even tried!!

Didn't we just do this?

Repeat the same info that has been on every other page for the past 30 pages to new users? Yes But that's what we're here for I suppose. From the point-of-view of a new user looking at a 63-page long thread, it's understandable.

 

[Vape Donkey 650]

Bummer. Could well have failed because of the power, from what Matt said that would seem to be possible/likely?

I really dont think I blew up the shallow one, I think I may have pulled a wire loose or something because I was wiping it out with an alcohol wipe right before it gave up. It looks great, no cracks, etc, it just doesnt get detected. if someone has a video where these things are being taken apart, Id like to see it so I could try to fix this one.

Let me back this up: I re-posted a video that Matt made a while back when the 2.5 had just been released, showing how to clean out your donuts with heat cycling on VW. In that vid, he actually uses 14-16w in VW to clean his donut, even though we clearly know now that that is too much power to continuously toss at your donut at a fixed rate.

Back then, even Matt didn't know everything; we were all learning together. It actually looks like he did crack his donut at the end of the vid.

I posted that video more to illustrate the motion of cleaning the donut, holding it upside down and blowing through the hole, NOT for the numerical information about wattages.

Before and after that video re-post of mine, Steven had made several detailed, informative posts in response to new people's inquiries about how to clean the crust off their donuts, where he clearly states 12w max in VW mode to clean. I was hoping poopster would at least pick this up from Steven's posts.

I made that youtube repost on my phone, during an idle moment at work, and it can be a struggle to make a coherent, articulate post on our phones, especially copy/pasting. I could have re-emphasized the 12w VW on that post, but I didn't have time, so I'll take partial blame for that one. It's possible that the excess heat could have cracked a donut, but it sounds more like a broken lead from contact / agitation from how she describes it. Sometimes if you poke around at the donut or cup with a tool, it can come back, maybe at a different resistance, but sometimes it's just a goner.

However, I also see this as a point where a false equivalency or assocation is being made between 14 VW and 14 TC..... not the same at all.... let's not get them twisted.

I did find this on youtube a while back, about rebuilding the donuts. It seems like it's much harder than they make it seem, and I would not want to attempt it on my own for not knowing exactly what kind of ceramic glue to source. At $15 and only 3 or 4 days away, I'd just get a whole new atty.

My confusion. I thought TCR is different than TC.

Another way to think of it, TCR is just being able to customize your own TC.

TC is just a pre-set number, TCR is allowing you to enter your own number, to conceivably control the temperature/resistance of any coil wire that could possibly be controlled by TC.

All "TC" modes operate on the principle of TCR, which is a known physical property of metals.

Some metals, like kanthal, cannot be controlled by TC mods, even on TCR mode, because their resistance rises way too high, too quickly, to be detected and reacted upon by our mods.

If you are willing to try different numbers and know how much your resistance should rise, you can experiment to find the right TCR value for all sorts of coils, not just donuts, if it doesn't already have a pre-set mode that works good.

Fortunately for us, we don't have to experiment much with TCR, because OF and fernand have already shown us what works.

It seems 245 is the general tcr value to use and then from there set watts to 12-12.5 w and the temp. With this setting just know that the first 4 seconds or so will not produce much vapor. If you are short on lung capacity you can increase the Wattage but risk the lifespan of your donut maybe? The setting of tcr 245 12.5w has proven to last over 5 months and going strong for me

We can always cycle our buttons after the 4 second warm-up period, the duration of the user's hit can be almost limitless if you keep cycling the button. The 10-second cutoff protection is almost irrelevant in this sense.

What I don't appreciate from those first 4 seconds of slow warm up @ 12w, is what I believe is the release of volatile terpenes before the thc can boil, when most people may not be hitting on their mouthpiece yet.

Especially if overloaded, wax can melt and seep into the base/airway in the time before the TC reaches protection. And if you are hitting on the mouthpiece before reaching temp, I feel like you're more likely to splatter that partially-melted oil onto the inside of your mouthpiece, as opposed to a near-instant heat and draw.