Divine Tribe atty's

[Vape Donkey 650]

I don't think AF could outperform DNA chipsets because the hardware on target devices is not as good (the ADC most notably)

So let me ask you KZ, if I can plug in my humble old cuboid to my pc and observe this through the AF device monitor, and see what I would describe as pretty much 'perfect' TC performance and stability, and also enjoy vape output that certainly feels like it matches this numerical nirvana.... (live puffs here not dry-test-puffs)... then isn't that as good as a DNA or any other premium chipset mod?

Or...is it because the hardware and sensors on the joye-leaf-smec mods are cheaper and not as high-end as on DNA mods...is it the case that these pretty, smooth charts aren't truly as accurate and reflective of actual mod performance as they seem, because they are derived from the said, inferior hardware and sensors of these brands' mod boxes? The box-mod data paradox haha

Anyways, if we would presume that the data represented in the AF device monitor is accurate, I don't see how this could be better? My calculated temps never actually go over protection, but seems to hover about 1-3F just under the target, with a nice, smooth ramp-up / ramp down and stability of watts output too. This is just TCR mode with PI control, which is so easy to set up, but whether you use TFR, replay or a boost/preheat curve, I don't know what more there is to want here?

This is the coil whose output is shown above... quad 7mm donuts (the default, low-resistance kind) so it's not the most standard of builds. It was working fine before I tuned in the PI controller as well. Temp spikes of 10F aren't the worst if you can limit the max temps within ballpark range of your goals. It does seem to puff a little smoother with the PI controller tuned in though...

900, 40 are the #'s for that smooth curve. Pretty close to the 900, 20 that works well on a single donut on V3 atty. I found that for each donut you add in parallel, adding about another 10 on the D helps keep the ramp-up quick with no / minimal temp overshoot

And it's a tank I use with gold drop distillate (tangie) which has so much flavor I even "dilute" it with raw distillate a little bit And yes there are DT donuts inside so that brings our tangent topic back to what this thread is about

Sigh...I wish DT would make a tank for everyone to use (not a DIY build) with alumina heaters... no one else wants to!

@Vape Donkey 650 Yea the AF is a great project! I don't doubt that it can or eventually could outperform the DNA chips; I just haven't had much experience using AF myself. The open source aspect of it is where it shines; constant improvements that aren't specific to new hardware releases.

Using Replay, the cup seems to be fairly stable; I don't get hits hotter than I want, regardless of how long I hold it (but I am using a time-defined cutoff for safety), but I'm starting at a low temp in the first place, so even if it is getting hotter it likely would reach the cutoff before getting hot n hurdy with my setup. I also haven't done any temperature testing with a gun or thermocouple, so I have zero quantitative data on that. I don't think it's too important that it maintains a max temp when holding for a long period; I think the most important thing is that you get a consistent output from the device so you can fine-tune your technique to get your ideal experience. I see no reason an equally enjoyable and consistent experience can't be achieved with AF or any other TCR solution.

I'm fairly certain the DNA chips do not have PID control. For more detailed info on Replay and other things, you might want to check out their official forum - The users that have much more experience with and knowledge of the DNA chips than I do, and might be able to give better answers.

I checked out the evolv forums and tried a few searches...couldn't really find much solid info about replay mode or how it works. Mostly found lots of users' posted replays. Oh well, I'll presume it's just like a feature that lets the user set a "target temp or heat" by pressing the button and saving it, and the mod treats it as a "target coil Ω" that it repeats but not with telling you a coil temp....because that's all that a 510 mod can really do is measure coil Ω's, right?

That's too bad the evolv software doesn't have PID / PI control. For all the things it has, I thought it would have that too. Seems like these mods work great even without it though. Since they are upgradeable firmware and DNA is always working on their software, maybe they can add that if enough users want it? It seems the "nfe team" of AF is more active in churning out new releases & features though.

@Vape Donkey 650 : yes. I'll have to do the thermocouple in oil, one of these days.
The rig is working OK as it is.

The gun's E is set to 85, the last time I calibrated with a thermocouple that seemed like a usable compromise setting.

I'm held together with rubber bands. Blood pressure meds, prostate meds, anti-inflammatories, a dozen supplements including Nootropics, etc etc etc. Etc. So I make improvements gradually, aiming for the long haul, and I need what's left of my head.

I'd given up on cannabis several times, long story, this time it's looking far more promising. In addition to clean concentrates, we can get relatively high purity D9-THC, D8-THC, CBD, terpenes, and the QQ is good enough to vape test mixes of the components.

On the Pico, with a fully zen reverent attitude, and attention to detail, it's surprisingly stable with the QQ. I dream of truly correct temp control at the cup, but I think it would require more sensors. Has anyone seen a TC setup with e.g. a thermocouple feedback input?

The 25 watts ramp-up was a bit low, 30 is good. What I'm aiming for is minimal overshoot, I'd rather wait a few seconds more. After a few draws at temp, the residue tastes like dregs, it mops up like I'd expect, it's comparable to gently working a 4mm banger, so I think I'm getting the TC that I need.

Hey fern, I didn't know that you were being held together with rubber bands. I had the random unfounded impression that you might be a young, healthy guy. That's what internet forums might lead me to think. I'm rooting for you and @looney2nz too. Whether it be med, rec, or some combination, with the supply in our state supposedly all safe & clean & lab tested now, and all these wondrous new inventions like live resin, sauce, QQ, etc, that might offer you the satisfaction, effectiveness, and peace-of-mind to medicate if you so see the need?

This new delta 8 stuff is interesting too..I saw a new "Δ8" extract from guild...totally clear and syrupy, 56% Δ8 and 7% Δ9... and 3% CBN... I saw it at sparc... I didn't buy it but sure curious. Why Δ8? I hear it's different but similar to the familiar Δ9, probably another thread better for that tangent

That's cool if you like to use your QQ with minimal wattage levels. Since you really like to control the temp and avoid overshoots, and with the natural delay of the heat to transfer over from the rods to the cup to your oil load, the slower rate can help you observe and control this.

I like a max of 46.5w to start it up and help fetch a stout cloud on my QQ, but the power cycles around 15-30w as the coils reach protection...mostly around 20-25w, so you're fine limiting your watts that low if you're more patient than me.

There is no threaded / e-cig / 510-style connection for vapes that I know of that are anything more an a simple + / - current through the connector, nothing more, no provision for any other sensor or more data. If such a thing was made, it wouldn't be a 510 connector, and probably wouldn't be compatible with lots of existing hardware. Or at least the added functionality wouldn't be compatible.

There's a few "alternative" e-cig connector types that tried to gain popularity in years past but it seems they never caught on big. It's like the e-cig vape world is "stuck" on VHS cassette tapes (510-threaded connectors) for universality, but the technical limitations of that format can really be holding back some of the more ambitious atomizer designers.... We need to "break through" to DVD format haha so we can be current to the 2000's

SO, does anyone really know someone who REALLY knows flow dynamics and has been designing bridges that don't collapse in the
wind and all that, so we can get some more ideas?

It should be possible to have them make several GonGs with different hole and tubelet positions to try?

Good concept...I'm pretty sure that if we can get the angle of the little dual tubelets on the 18mm / 14mm male adapters to be lower like the single tubelets we have on our current QQ caps, that would help with the swirling pattern and splash-control.

But, with the apparent difficulty for Matt to get his suppliers to actually make these things, and then mass produce them in large quantities and also be of a decent quality and sturdiness, I think we may have to settle for what we can get! Maybe it won't be possible to easily produce the new adapters with the less sharp tube angle? (Hopefully they can be made with whatever angle works best)

But when we do get these caps..regardless of tube angle, I'm pretty sure it will be a improvement & upgrade over the performance of the stock glass cap when using with GonG attachments....

 

[JigMelon]

@Vape Donkey 650 Assuming the readings are accurate I would agree that your chart proves that AF device as being more than suitable. Regarding the Evolv forums that's a bummer; maybe you should email them directly for more info. I would tell you exactly how it works if only I knew myself!

That's a really interesting build you have there.... I might have to try that when it's easier to get bulk distillate. Is that ReadyXWick? If not, what wick is that?

 

[Vape Donkey 650]

Thanks @JigMelon, yes it is indeed readyxwick. For my builds that require a fiber-type wick (these smok X-baby RBAs need some sort of wick) I've found that the readyxwick is the only kind that can hold up to longer term usage, minimizing the gunk-buildup and the most resistant to dry hits & being overheated. You really can't "combust" this wick, and even if it gets moderately dry-puffed on, but then the wick gets re-saturated, it still works & tastes fine. I can't achieve results with cotton or any organic fiber anywhere near what I get with RXwick although I do have a couple of alternate ceramic donut builds that I make (for the cubis pro mini) that are "wickless" - no RXwick or any fibers, just donuts

You can check out some of my past work on the tanks thread... too bad all of the purty pictures aren't visible unless you do some work-arounds, damn imgur!

I like to think that seeing charts like that on the AF monitor would indicate that it can deliver top-notch performance. But with the nature of the "data paradox" I want to hear what @KeroZen has to say about it too Every single puff may not appear as perfect as it does in that graph, but even with tiny temp overshoots, it puffs real smooth

 

[JigMelon]

@Vape Donkey 650 Yea I've seen your other builds just not that one! I'm going to have to try that once I get my hands on some syringes. Looks extremely effective and lasting. RXwick is definitely the way to go! I haven't seen or heard that in like 2-3 years... Definitely the best wick for our needs. I'll have to read through that thread for more ideas; thanks!

 

[Vape Donkey 650]

Right on! I hear that the ReadyXwick isn't so universally appreciated among the e-cig juice vaping crowd because it's slower to wick up and absorb juice compared to cotton, but it's durability can't be matched. I can go through 5 or 6 grams of distillate or co2 with this wick and still feel like it's ready for more. Cotton turns into a horrible mess well before that much concentrate can be vaped.

Good luck in getting some good runny concentrates and if you try to build some tank atomizers like these. Feel free to hit me if you have any questions about the tank atomizer builds (even in the bay area it's not that easy to get distillate or co2 applicators / syringes in stores right now )

 

[looney2nz]

Thanks @JigMelon, yes it is indeed readyxwick. For my builds that require a fiber-type wick (these smok X-baby RBAs need some sort of wick) I've found that the readyxwick is the only kind that can hold up to longer term usage, minimizing the gunk-buildup and the most resistant to dry hits & being overheated. You really can't "combust" this wick, and even if it gets moderately dry-puffed on, but then the wick gets re-saturated, it still works & tastes fine. I can't achieve results with cotton or any organic fiber anywhere near what I get with RXwick although I do have a couple of alternate ceramic donut builds that I make (for the cubis pro mini) that are "wickless" - no RXwick or any fibers, just donuts

You can check out some of my past work on the tanks thread... too bad all of the purty pictures aren't visible unless you do some work-arounds, damn imgur!

I like to think that seeing charts like that on the AF monitor would indicate that it can deliver top-notch performance. But with the nature of the "data paradox" I want to hear what @KeroZen has to say about it too Every single puff may not appear as perfect as it does in that graph, but even with tiny temp overshoots, it puffs real smooth

Isn't that the configuration in the Smok you built for me? (very sleep deprived)

Thing works insanely great. That's what I have sitting on the eLeaf Invoke.

 

[karmakid64]

FYI if your Primo Mini's has a "weak battery" message, you might need to tighten down the screw under the USB micro port with a Torx T6.

one year later and my primo is now getting this issue. I've been tightening but even that is not working so well any other tips? replace the screw maybe?

 

[invertedisdead]

one year later and my primo is now getting this issue. I've been tightening but even that is not working so well any other tips? replace the screw maybe?

Hmmm, that's a tough one. Maybe clean the terminals with a q tip dipped in alcohol? I assume it does that with multiple batteries? Mines been in a drawer for a while, haven't been hitting much pens lately.

 

[fernand]

@Vape Donkey 650, thanks for the cheer, I did says held together, so the array of rubber bands is generally holding. The illusion is wonderful. Working on alternatives right here, right now.

Love your presence of mind and dedication to ... enhancing it.

As a reality check ... versus QQ etc.

I just got a couple of commercial carts, and I'm amazed at how for they've come. I can only imagine that with a battery set to deliver 4 volts , a 1.87 ohm cart like the ABX filled with distillate and gala party terpenes must do an interesting bit of post-apocalyptic fuming at 8.5 watts, seeing as I'm getting good clean vape at 4-5 watts. What I'm very curious about is whether these various strain-labeled carts are really delivering anything resembling these strains. My impression so far ranges from "somewhat", on a good day, to "utter bullshit, generic THC, perfumed".

I also found a fully self contained disposable pen with about 3/4 Delta 8 and 1/4 Delta 9 THC, with ~ 1/8 terpenes.





THAT one is such a no-button inhalation-triggered motherpacker that the first sip blows your lungs out. Going to have get creative with tubing and a big water rig to even assess it.


Can you please direct me to where I can read about and get AF (for the QQ)?
Is this firmware for specific Joyetech mods? With software for Windows? mac?

I see the original little Pico is getting scarce, that fatter one's extra capacity is unnecessary and the result is a less pocketable and toadyer mod. What's newer and available that's no worse, maybe better?

It looks like nobody has come close to beating the Pico's size and handiness, unless you go the eGo style. Any good at least Wattage-adjustable ones in eGo format to use with carts?

 

[fernand]

My mother? Let me tell you about my mother!
Honestly not sure where to post this, sorry.

A young budtender named Ian said he'd tried delta 8
and that it made him feel 4 feet tall, walking around like
that, kinda squashed. Observant young man. That's a good
image of the way it made me feel. There's a heaviness and
loosening in the low musculature. I'm not "delighted" with
it. Some pain relief in the lower back is present, but not very
targeted, kind of what a 3 foot lawn dwarf might feel or a
human in some super-gravity environment. It's sort of
part-way to CBD subjectively too. And I felt squat and
foggy in a THC afternoon way.

So the next question was whether it acted like THC, in that
AC/DC extract, that's ++ heavy in CBD, would counteract
(or enhance?) these effects. A couple tokes of AC/DC and the
fog cleared, the way CBD clears delta 9 THC fog. I suddenly
felt my normal height too. It didn't seem to entirely lift the
lower body heaviness. I find that CBD counteracts targeted
pain relief from Sativa strains more noticeably.

So here is evidence that there are some more dimensions
to the "what gives each strain its particular effects" puzzle,
aside from terpenes. We'll have to also consider the other
cannabinoids we seldom talk about, including delta 8 THC.

Worth mentioning that pulsing the vapor through a water
tool the terpene blend had a nice flavor. Using the pen,
they claim 100 "doses", without a water filtration unit in
public would be very harsh, it's too high a wattage, too hot,
too much, at least with the battery new.

Here's the image with a different linking

 

[divinetribe]

My mother? Let me tell you about my mother!
Honestly not sure where to post this, sorry.

A young budtender named Ian said he'd tried delta 8
and that it made him feel 4 feet tall, walking around like
that, kinda squashed. Observant young man. That's a good
image of the way it made me feel. There's a heaviness and
loosening in the low musculature. I'm not "delighted" with
it. Some pain relief in the lower back is present, but not very
targeted, kind of what a 3 foot lawn dwarf might feel or a
human in some super-gravity environment. It's sort of
part-way to CBD subjectively too. And I felt squat and
foggy in a THC afternoon way.

So the next question was whether it acted like THC, in that
AC/DC extract, that's ++ heavy in CBD, would counteract
(or enhance?) these effects. A couple tokes of AC/DC and the
fog cleared, the way CBD clears delta 9 THC fog. I suddenly
felt my normal height too. It didn't seem to entirely lift the
lower body heaviness. I find that CBD counteracts targeted
pain relief from Sativa strains more noticeably.

So here is evidence that there are some more dimensions
to the "what gives each strain its particular effects" puzzle,
aside from terpenes. We'll have to also consider the other
cannabinoids we seldom talk about, including delta 8 THC.

Worth mentioning that pulsing the vapor through a water
tool the terpene blend had a nice flavor. Using the pen,
they claim 100 "doses", without a water filtration unit in
public would be very harsh, it's too high a wattage, too hot,
too much, at least with the battery new.

Here's the image with a different linking

we call the DELTA 8 "water" up here, it is considered one of the better distillates.

v4 crucible coming OCT 2018

 

[tharealmclovin]

When can we expect 3.5? Any current discounts @divinetribe ?

 

[HSIHP]

V4 looks awesome, Matt! I've been wanting another QQ (mine is just giving me way to much trouble, I think I may have messed with it too much) but now I will hold out for the V4. Looks like a bigger cup but I'm assuming it still works well with small loads?

 

[tylerj55]

we call the DELTA 8 "water" up here, it is considered one of the better distillates.

v4 crucible coming OCT 2018

This looks like the best vape pen yet! Would it be possible to use a ceramic disc like they use in the Puffco Peak atomizer so it heats the center as well? That would lead to different cup design possibilities as well... I would love a core reactor cup down the road if possible.

 

[JigMelon]

@tylerj55 The core reactor, or really any additional mass that increases surface contact, requires significantly more heat to get it where you want it. That certainly isn't a problem for people using good batteries, good chips, a heatsink, and their brain, but I imagine @divinetribe's ultimate goal is to get more and more of these into headshops across the country. If such a product came out, it would lead to tons of complaints of uneducated users breaking their mod, destroying their batteries, etc. I agree that the benefits are worthwhile, but I can't see that happening in a device any time soon other than a device made exclusively for hobbyists. It's something I would expect to see someone making custom in their shop and offering on here or IG, opposed to designing and engineering for mass production.

That being said, it's a +1 for me; I would buy such a device.

 

[Danksta]

So HYPED for the V4. Now THAT's a bucket!

 

[invertedisdead]

but I can't see that happening in a device any time soon other than a device made exclusively for hobbyists.

Who do you think is buying Divine Tribe products? I don't think it's your typical prefilled cart crowd. Only the most hardcore of vapor hobbyists will take 5 minutes to program a box mod for these sub ohm atomizers. That takes real dedication!

 

[JigMelon]

Who do you think is buying Divine Tribe products? I don't think it's your typical prefilled cart crowd. Only the most hardcore of vapor hobbyists will take 5 minutes to program a box mod for these sub ohm atomizers. That takes real dedication!

I don't disagree that we're currently the targeted market. I would imagine we are Matt's testing grounds (which I'm more than happy to be a part of) until he finds a design he feels is worth greater distribution. This isn't designed to replace cartridges; this is the YoCan killer.

 

[invertedisdead]

This isn't designed to replace cartridges; this is the YoCan killer.

I think at this point its the battery that is the bottleneck for many folks, they really just want to push a button and get vapor. Smarter temperature control algorithms are the future I think, like the Omni mini board in the Vaporesso Nexus.

It hurts to say, but I set up a bunch of people with V3's on Evic Basics with a custom TC profile, and even with that big head start, their lack of interest in learning a box mod did cause them to go back to the YoCan. And with lack of TC those YoCans taste like a combustion pen... disgusting, unregulated hits off nichrome wire.

I actually think the prefilled cart is the future of cannabis vaporization though. That CCell hits like a dab rig, with the right oils it's just as good as any top tier setup. With all these processes being developed for extracting plaint resins into clean wicking oils,eventually the costs will trickle down and sauce pens won't cost much more than simple distillate pens of today. I don't think tons of people will really even want to load and dab live sauces if they can just puff it out of a cart with no reclaim or mess.

 

[tylerj55]

@tylerj55 The core reactor, or really any additional mass that increases surface contact, requires significantly more heat to get it where you want it. That certainly isn't a problem for people using good batteries, good chips, a heatsink, and their brain, but I imagine @divinetribe's ultimate goal is to get more and more of these into headshops across the country. If such a product came out, it would lead to tons of complaints of uneducated users breaking their mod, destroying their batteries, etc. I agree that the benefits are worthwhile, but I can't see that happening in a device any time soon other than a device made exclusively for hobbyists. It's something I would expect to see someone making custom in their shop and offering on here or IG, opposed to designing and engineering for mass production.

That being said, it's a +1 for me; I would buy such a device.

I hear ya! I meant more of like a limited run honestly, but I didn’t specify. I’d be down to do support a kickstarter or something like that for Matt to make these core reactor cups so he’s not at risk financially. Also, I think they would only work with a full disc atomizer, as they already have some quartz dishes for the Peak with an opaque core. This seems like it will make the Peak obsolete imo. I took my broken peak apart and it has 4 18350 batteries in it, I can’t wait to pair this with my RX300. My gf took over my switch as she loves the self clean mode and the lights. I’d rather use my rig or flowerpot, but this is something I would use daily.

 

[florduh]

I actually think the prefilled cart is the future of cannabis vaporization though. That CCell hits like a dab rig, with the right oils it's just as good as any top tier setup. With all these processes being developed for extracting plaint resins into clean wicking oils,eventually the costs will trickle down and sauce pens won't cost much more than simple distillate pens of today. I don't think tons of people will really even want to load and dab live sauces if they can just puff it out of a cart with no reclaim or mess.

Unfortunately, I think you're right that pre-fills are the future. I'm a nic vaporist as well. Every one of my friends who vapes nicotine now buys Juul pods, even though they cost more and offer a worse experience than filling your own tanks.

I'm starting to see the same thing with cannabis. I don't have a major issue with pre-fills. Especially with a quality oil inside (Rove come to mind).

I DO have an issue with all the extra waste. Single use disposable cartridges bother me. I wish more quality oil filled syringes were available near me. Getting people to fill something like the Vaporesso Nexus seems more doable than getting people to use a load as you go wax atomizer.

This seems like it will make the Peak obsolete imo.

Someone can make the Peak obsolete by making a Mod that goes through a full heating cycle with one touch of the button. That is literally the only difference between the Peak and a crucible style wax atomizer. People are too lazy to hold a button for 12 seconds, and they're willing to spend $400 to avoid that hassle. Amazing.

 

[tylerj55]

Unfortunately, I think you're right that pre-fills are the future. I'm a nic vaporist as well. Every one of my friends who vapes nicotine now buys Juul pods, even though they cost more and offer a worse experience than filling your own tanks.

I'm starting to see the same thing with cannabis. I don't have a major issue with pre-fills. Especially with a quality oil inside (Rove come to mind).

I DO have an issue with all the extra waste. Single use disposable cartridges bother me. I wish more quality oil filled syringes were available near me. Getting people to fill something like the Vaporesso Nexus seems more doable than getting people to use a load as you go wax atomizer.



Someone can make the Peak obsolete by making a Mod that goes through a full heating cycle with one touch of the button. That is literally the only difference between the Peak and a crucible style wax atomizer. People are too lazy to hold a button for 12 seconds, and they're willing to spend $400 to avoid that hassle. Amazing.

I wonder if you could use the Tubo firmware with this and use the cruise feature or whatever it’s called. I don’t have one but I always thought that would be a nice feature for those 510 enails.

 

[invertedisdead]

Unfortunately, I think you're right that pre-fills are the future. I'm a nic vaporist as well. Every one of my friends who vapes nicotine now buys Juul pods, even though they cost more and offer a worse experience than filling your own tanks.

I'm starting to see the same thing with cannabis. I don't have a major issue with pre-fills. Especially with a quality oil inside (Rove come to mind).

I DO have an issue with all the extra waste. Single use disposable cartridges bother me. I wish more quality oil filled syringes were available near me. Getting people to fill something like the Vaporesso Nexus seems more doable than getting people to with a load as you go wax atomizer.

I think refillable syringes will be more widespread in due time. As these oils get cleaner and cleaner, they shouldn't really need to be replaced too often since they don't have that much non vaporizable plant contaminant to gunk the atomizer up. I hear you about the waste thing but I think ultimately its a very small amount of waste compared to other mainstream disposable products like razors and plastic utensils. I'm totally on board with more re-usable pens though, too bad the Trinity doesn't seem to live up to its expectations, as that ability to clean and re-purpose had me really sold on the platform. I'm pretty new to Ccells, gave up carts years back and have strongly been a die hard LAYG advocate, really have had a lot of negative thoughts about prefilled pens in general, but after trying some Co2 pens recently I'm pretty blown away by how hard they hit when not diluted. I have two e-nails going at the same time and still was reaching for that pen.

I think there's of course a conflict of interest for manufacturers to develop rock solid products when they are used to selling something disposable in huge order quantities. I know Divine Tribe posted a pic on IG recently of a ceramic cart so who knows what we'll be seeing from Matt in that sector!

 

[KeroZen]

I wonder if you could use the Tubo firmware with this and use the cruise feature or whatever it’s called. I don’t have one but I always thought that would be a nice feature for those 510 enails.

Wouldn't that be as wasteful as a session conduction vape then?

 

[tylerj55]

Wouldn't that be as wasteful as a session conduction vape then?

I’m not sure how it would waste anything, as it would just provide heat without holding the button down, like the Peak provides. But I may also not have a full understanding of how the Tubo firmware operates as I do not own one.