Dear Ohio Stoners and Users of Cannabis

[KimDracula]

Either way, isn't it still only 1 "group" who is investing and controlling this? There may be 10 whatever, but Responsible Ohio is funding/backing everything, right? So to me that's still a problem.

This isn't true from what I understand. In any case, I hope it passes. A disagreement over who is making the money at the beginning isn't a good reason to oppose legalization IMO. Why not pass this and continue to work for something better?

 

[friedrich]

Looking at the wording on the ballot, I don't have a lot of hope that issue 3, legalization, will pass and issue 2, which nullifies it, will fail. The title for issue 3 doesn't even directly mention legalization, just that it "grants a monopoly for the commercial production and sale..."

With home growing and the spread of legalization across the nation, I don't see the oligopoly being that big a deal; they'll be forced to compete.

So to any Ohioans we have around here at FC: tell as many people as you can, and remember issue 2 also has to fail. Early voting started today, so there's no excuse for missing it!

 

[Aimless Ryan]

Even if Issue 2 passes, if Issue 3 also passes, it's still a win. Even if it doesn't enable legalization right away, it becomes a clear statement to legislators that the people who gave them their jobs want legalization. Now. The same people who may choose to give those same jobs to other people; people who respect their constituency.

 

[Fat Freddy]

Well, has anyone ever heard the old political saw, "As Ohio goes, so goes the nation."?

Granted, it's generally used in the context of presidential elections but I think it holds in the instance of Ohio's issue 3 as well.

Should it pass this November, Ohio will be the first state to legalize both medical and recreational cannabis simultaneously. It would be a good bet, it seems to me, that such a historic event could become the tipping point at which a national "domino effect" may obtain.

As such, a critical mass forming nationally in 2016 may be crucial to sustaining legalization progress to date, given that we may see the GOP take the White House in 2017. Hence, without continued progress on the state front of this battle, it would not surprise me to see all legalization gains made to date, i.e. both medical and recreational legalization, wiped away in 2017 by the new, republican administration.

Remember, all of those here who are old enough to recall, that it was Richard Milhous Nixon who hewed, cut and nailed down that minor plank in the GOP platform that marijuana prohibition has become. Let's not allow that s.o.b. to win again!

I'm 61 years old and have used cannabis since 1970. I've been a member of both the national and state NORML groups, off and on, for over forty years. Now, as a medical cannabis user due to my terminal illness, I have statistically speaking, only a few years left, at best. I would REALLY like to see our great nation finally brought out from under the black cloud of paranoia that Nixon imperially foisted upon us all those years ago, (see Shafer Commission).

Ohio's fight is your fight, brothers and sisters!

 

[Bluestang]

After much thought and reading, I will vote yes and so will my wife. Also have a few people at my work that will also vote yes.

 

[Gunky]

I am not so certain I would support this. State monopolies have a way of never dying. Take a state like Washington. Alcohol is a government monopoly and you mainly have to buy it from a monopoly store. Think how difficult it would be to change that now! Near impossible, I suspect. Anything that sets up a monopoly is going to be difficult to change. Some of the folks insisting it ought to be approved and for anybody who doesn't like it, the black market goes on - you could turn that on its head and say let's wait for a better proposal and meanwhile the black market will continue.

 

[Aimless Ryan]

Funny. That's a lot like buying alcohol in Ohio used to be. You didn't have to buy all alcohol at state liquor stores, but I think you could only get the real stuff at state liquor stores. As far as I know, there are no state liquor stores in Ohio now.

As I have said a couple times already, there is nothing about passing this issue that would be any worse than how it is now. Nothing. And if we say no to Issue 3, we're going to spend a long time stuck exactly where we are right now.

Some people need other options than the black market. Now.

 

[Gunky]

Not worse than now is a very low bar for approval, especially when you are creating an entrenched government bureaucracy and regulatory apparatus. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[momofthegoons]

For what it's worth; here is a link to an article that my caregiver wrote for Cannabis Business Times regarding the legalization initiative in Ohio. He is from Ohio and opposed.

 

[grokit]

For what it's worth; here is a link to an article that my caregiver wrote for Cannabis Business Times regarding the legalization initiative in Ohio. He is from Ohio and opposed.

Great article

"On a grand scale, the effect a cartel can have on an economy can be catastrophic."
​

 

[Gunky]

The whole thing smacks of taking cannabis away from one form of cartel and giving it to another. I hate to say it but it stinks. People keep saying you can change it later but I think it is more likely that having settled the tendency will be to get locked into some arrangement for an inordinately long time while others are enjoying relative freedom. Ohio can easily do better and you would probably poll better in a presidential year.

 

[MinnBobber]

For what it's worth; here is a link to an article that my caregiver wrote for Cannabis Business Times regarding the legalization initiative in Ohio. He is from Ohio and opposed.

.........................................
Very interesting. Ohio would have 10 companies under the law
Minnesota has only 2 producers--- seed to sale, in our new MMJ program.

It sucks 5 times as bad !!!
It will be interesting to see if that is ever changed, if more are allowed.

 

[grokit]

I really hope that more states choose to follow the cottage industry model over the corporate cartel model when setting up their legalization strategies, as we are seeing good examples in oregon and colorado. As usual, what california ultimately decides to do (next year) will have a huge impact on a national level.

 

[Gunky]

I really hope that more states choose to follow the cottage industry model over the corporate cartel model when setting up their legalization strategies, as we are seeing good examples in oregon and colorado. As usual, what california ultimately decides to do next year will have a huge impact on a national level.

It's kind of scary because we have enjoyed a golden age of low-regulation 'medical' in CA. It may well be easier to fuck it up than improve it.

 

[KimDracula]

We have an unstable patchwork of rules that no one can ever really be sure of in CA. We have cities and counties who just ignore the vote of the people. We need legalization.

Some of us are very privileged in our access. Some are not. Is it worth people still going to jail and others being deprived of relief while the black market continues to profit? I don't think so, but I'm not in OH. Pass it, people, for the sake of others if not for yourself.

I have to point out, again, that it seems we're not at all sure that this is going to be the oligopoly we fear. Have a listen to this if you have time:

The Russ Belville Show #670: More Evidence There Will be Many Growers in Ohio

edit now that I'm listening myself: the OH issue begins discussion at around 29 minutes (on Ustream anyway...)

audio only (also available as a podcast)
http://420radio.org/shows/rbs/

Ustream video (not necessary)
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/radicalruss

 

[Fat Freddy]

Some of us are very privileged in our access. Some are not. Is it worth people still going to jail and others being deprived of relief while the black market continues to profit? I don't think so, but I'm not in OH. Pass it, people, for the sake of others if not for yourself.

Well said, KD!!

Folks here at FC find a great deal of personal enjoyment in indulging their use of cannabis, nothing wrong with that!

Now, consider that level of enjoyment that your recreational use brings you, and then multiply that level of appreciation of cannabis by say a factor of 10; perhaps then you might begin to get a better idea of what it feels like for those of us who NEED it medically!

If you are cannabis supporter, then help us medical users out here a little bit, please?

And if you are an Ohio voter, please vote yes on Issue 3 and vote no on Issue 2!

Thanks.

FF

 

[Bluestang]

What happens if both Issue 3 and Issue 2 pass?

 

[Fat Freddy]

What happens if both Issue 3 and Issue 2 pass?

Good question, Bluestang. From what I've read about that possibility the "legal eagles" are divided on which issue would prevail. Issue two, as I understand it has no waiting period attached to it as it was promulgated directly from the Ohio legislature, and therefore would supersede Issue 3 which has, if I recall correctly, a 30 day delay before it would become Ohio law.

Then there are other legal scholars who argue that it would come down to which issue has the most yes votes.

Let's hope that scenario of both issues passing doesn't play out!

 

[KimDracula]

It sounds like Issue 2 has ugly repercussions for future voter referenda from what I heard on the show. Hopefully that one fails.

 

[nosmoking]

Issue 2 =

Issue 3 =

Full write ups here- http://www.sos.state.oh.us/SOS/elections/Voters/whatsontheballot/2015Issues.aspx

I am still a little confused about what Issue 2 has to do with Issue 3. @friedrich states that yes on Issue 2 would nullify Issue 3 which seems to make sense, however @Aimless Ryan and @Fat Freddy seem to state if both passed then Issue 3 would still be in effect, only it would not wait 30 days.

I'm not in Ohio so I can't vote, but perhaps a little clarity on this would help others who can vote.

 

[Gunky]

Some of us are very privileged in our access. Some are not. Is it worth people still going to jail and others being deprived of relief while the black market continues to profit? I don't think so, but I'm not in OH. Pass it, people, for the sake of others if not for yourself.

The above is nonsense. The proposed Ohio initiative still leaves a lot of activities prohibited and thus criminalized. It creates an extremely bogus and unfair situation where a privileged few reap huge profits and everyone else will go to jail for doing the same thing. The suggestion that anyone opposed to this half-assed arrangement is somehow selfish and unsympathetic to medical patients is offensive. The idea that non-medical patients opposing this want black market profits to continue while the desire of proponents of the initiative to enrich a few privileged corporations is somehow completely pure and different - is absurd on the face of it.

Aim a little higher, people! Don't settle for a corrupt and stupid arrangement just as the walls are tumbling down.

 

[KimDracula]

Opposing legalization because the proposed plan isn't exactly what one wants is politically naive and self-centered and dogmatic, imo. Political victories are almost always incremental. People should aim high, but they should also grab what is realistic on the way, and continue to work to advance the cause. Opposing legalization is tacit support of a status quo with prohibition. I don't mean to offend. People are obviously allowed their own opinions.

 

[friedrich]

Here's a new article about issue 3, including a short interview with the main guy behind it: http://www.philly.com/philly/column...t_legal_marijuana_ahead_of_historic_vote.html

 

[Gunky]

Opposing legalization because the proposed plan isn't exactly what one wants is politically naive and self-centered and dogmatic, imo. Political victories are almost always incremental. People should aim high, but they should also grab what is realistic on the way, and continue to work to advance the cause. Opposing legalization is tacit support of a status quo with prohibition. I don't mean to offend. People are obviously allowed their own opinions.

'Legalization' and selling an exclusive marijuana concession to a few oligarchs are not the same. I am for the one and against the other.

http://edrosenthal.com/2015/03/the-folly-of-exclusivity.html

 

[Aimless Ryan]

What happens if both Issue 3 and Issue 2 pass?

As far as I know, if Issue 2 passes, it nullifies Issue 3.

Also, and I'm not responding to anything in particular here, but the wording on the ballot may be confusing some of you. From what I understand, the ballot wording was composed by scumbag politicians who want to keep cannabis illegal. It went to court, I think because the word 'monopoly' is in the ballot wording. If it is, it's there specifically to scare people, not necessarily because it would actually be a monopoly. That's how politicians work.

I am not sure what I just said is 100% accurate. But it may be. I am not trying to mislead, so please look it up if you feel you need to. Because I may be wrong. If so, it is not intentionally to mislead anyone.

@Gunky Who reaps the benefits now? Who benefits in any way at all now? Absolutely nothing is better how it is now, compared to how it will be if this issue passes. It will not just be "not worse" if this passes. Rather, it will be infinitely better; just not perfect.

Do you think a bunch of people who don't have the resources/capital to open a business are going to be the ones opening businesses if the premises of this issue were changed to make it so only people without money can be the ones to start this brand new industry (at least within Ohio)?

I like your ideals, except they're not applicable here. When there is absolutely no way to get exactly what you want, you take most of what you want, and you work on getting the rest in time.

Alternatively you say, "If I can't have everything, I don't want anything. And I don't want anyone else to have anything, either."