Crackdown on Legalized Marijuana
- Thread starter Deleted Member 1643
- Start date
BabyFacedFinster
Anything worth doing, is worth overdoing.
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/attorney-...gn-probes-211404980--abc-news-topstories.html
See, now the story has changed. Now the claim is that the conversations did occur while he was supporting Trump's campaign, it's just that he promises that they never talked about the Trump campaign.
Ohhh, those Russian conversations? .... Yes, but we talked about other stuff. I swear again.
So now, lying under oath during a Congressional hearing is just a technicality? With no repercussions beyond a barely visible finger wag? Wow.
And Sessions is angry that anyone even brought this up. If it was no big deal, then why didn't he just say it happened under oath? Are we really to believe that a man who is to hold the AG position would really forget that he met with a Russian ambassador twice only two months prior? It was either a cover-up or senility is setting in.
He's one of the biggest gators in the swamp.
See, now the story has changed. Now the claim is that the conversations did occur while he was supporting Trump's campaign, it's just that he promises that they never talked about the Trump campaign.
Ohhh, those Russian conversations? .... Yes, but we talked about other stuff. I swear again.
So now, lying under oath during a Congressional hearing is just a technicality? With no repercussions beyond a barely visible finger wag? Wow.
And Sessions is angry that anyone even brought this up. If it was no big deal, then why didn't he just say it happened under oath? Are we really to believe that a man who is to hold the AG position would really forget that he met with a Russian ambassador twice only two months prior? It was either a cover-up or senility is setting in.
He's one of the biggest gators in the swamp.
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grokit
well-worn member
Vapor_Eyes
taste buds
I've had this crazy notion running around my head for a few days and for some reason I feel compelled to share it. Here's my crazy conspiracy theory:
Donald Trump has made repeated statements in the past that he is in favor of state's rights on this issue. He's notorious for contradicting himself, but for speculation's sake let's say that he truly is in favor of state's rights.
Perhaps this is Trump's way of nullifying the federal law. As a Republican, a large segment of his base wants him to be tough on drugs and crack down on cannabis. He can't just come out and support decriminalization without alienating his party.
It's been clear for some time that the current situation is untenable, with federal and state laws directly contradicting each other. It's possible Trump thinks that the best and fastest way to get rid of federal intervention is to start a battle you know you are destined to lose.
Maybe that's why he's working with hardline anti-cannabis politicians like Sessions. Making this a big issue forces resolution. And it would allow Trump to open the door to federal decriminalization while still being viewed as "tough on drugs".
From a business perspective alone I would think Trump would understand it makes sense to stop spending money on prohibition and start earning money from taxation.
It's not the most elegant solution and it may get ugly for a while. But it might be the quickest way to get this done. Even the threat of a crackdown has galvanized our congressman. Never underestimate the power of an entrenched state bureaucracy, especially when tax revenue is involved.
Maybe we can finally get some bills passed through congress to fix this situation, and the Justice Department never has to step in and crack down.
As much as the Cole memo was a good thing, it's simply a band-aid on the situation and not even legally binding, it is just guidance. I would even say it may have had a negative effect of allowing the cannabis legalization movement to become complacent instead of fixing the actual problem by due process of law. To be fair, you didn't have the same level of entrenched state bureaucracy back then either, so it would have been a harder battle to win in congress.
This is just a crazy theory about Trump's intentions on this issue, but it doesn't really matter if it's true, I'm still optimistic about the future of legalized cannabis. The only reason I wanted to share my speculation is so that hopefully more people can be optimistic too.
Donald Trump has made repeated statements in the past that he is in favor of state's rights on this issue. He's notorious for contradicting himself, but for speculation's sake let's say that he truly is in favor of state's rights.
Perhaps this is Trump's way of nullifying the federal law. As a Republican, a large segment of his base wants him to be tough on drugs and crack down on cannabis. He can't just come out and support decriminalization without alienating his party.
It's been clear for some time that the current situation is untenable, with federal and state laws directly contradicting each other. It's possible Trump thinks that the best and fastest way to get rid of federal intervention is to start a battle you know you are destined to lose.
Maybe that's why he's working with hardline anti-cannabis politicians like Sessions. Making this a big issue forces resolution. And it would allow Trump to open the door to federal decriminalization while still being viewed as "tough on drugs".
From a business perspective alone I would think Trump would understand it makes sense to stop spending money on prohibition and start earning money from taxation.
It's not the most elegant solution and it may get ugly for a while. But it might be the quickest way to get this done. Even the threat of a crackdown has galvanized our congressman. Never underestimate the power of an entrenched state bureaucracy, especially when tax revenue is involved.
Maybe we can finally get some bills passed through congress to fix this situation, and the Justice Department never has to step in and crack down.
As much as the Cole memo was a good thing, it's simply a band-aid on the situation and not even legally binding, it is just guidance. I would even say it may have had a negative effect of allowing the cannabis legalization movement to become complacent instead of fixing the actual problem by due process of law. To be fair, you didn't have the same level of entrenched state bureaucracy back then either, so it would have been a harder battle to win in congress.
This is just a crazy theory about Trump's intentions on this issue, but it doesn't really matter if it's true, I'm still optimistic about the future of legalized cannabis. The only reason I wanted to share my speculation is so that hopefully more people can be optimistic too.
Baron23
Well-Known Member
Wasn't he an architect of this administration's policies and counted upon to enforce them?
Not as far as I know.
You are being ludicrous IMO.
BabyFacedFinster
Anything worth doing, is worth overdoing.
Anything's possible. Even if that was not Trump's plan, that might be the way this ends. A bill was already submitted this week to deschedule cannabis federally so the whole thing is out of the AG's hands.
In the meanwhile: https://www.yahoo.com/news/senators-urge-sessions-not-to-crack-down-on-marijuana-213339998.html
Thanks to Senator Warren and her colleagues
Deleted Member 1643
Well-Known Member
A Breitbart reprint of a New York Times commentary.
That's right - a reductio ad absurdum to suggest that nationalism leads to Balkanization.
Baron23
Well-Known Member
Do me a favor, mate....leave me the fuck alone otherwise we will both end up on @momofthegoons shit list.
Mod note: You are stepping on the Be Nice rule here.....
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Deleted Member 1643
Well-Known Member
Sorry - thought you might be up for a little good-natured sparring. It's certainly off-topic.
Baron23
Well-Known Member
Sorry, didn't mean to react so severely and yes, I do enjoy a good debate among folks of good intent and intelligence, which I would presume you are.
But these political discussions have been going on for quite some time on this board, almost always have eventually gotten very heated and fraught and the thread is then closed off by the Mods and warning points issued.
I'm not saying that I won't post links, or even rise to the occasion of a post on political topics, ever again but I really am trying to avoid arguments (like an alchy avoiding a drink...yeah! LOL).
We don't ever seem to change anyone's opinions and we just end up more divided.
Legalization of MJ seems to be the one and only political topic we all see to agree upon.
Cheers
Deleted Member 1643
Well-Known Member
Totally understand. Hoping enough time has passed for passions to cool and reason to reassert itself.
That's the sad part. Is it getting worse, or am I just getting old?
That's the sad part. Is it getting worse, or am I just getting old?
neverforget711
Well-Known Member
This is my thinking as well. I also think this is a bargaining chip to haggle with sanctuary states which have this commerce, make them a little offer they can't refuse.
CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
I've been having the same thoughts. Trump wants to use cannabis as a bargaining chip with sanctuary cities such as Seattle and Los Angeles - cannabis country.
CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
How States Are Responding to Anti-Cannabis Threats by Trump Administration
by Addison Herron-Wheeler | March 2, 2017
Ever since the press conference where Sean Spicer implied that the world of legal cannabis can expect a crackdown from the Trump administration, the community has been reacting with resilience. Representatives from states with legal cannabis have been responding appropriately in opposition to Spicer’s comments.
“We will resist any efforts to thwart the will of the voters in Washington,” Bob Ferguson, the state’s attorney general, told the Seattle Times.
Similarly, in a letter to U.S. attorney general Jeff Sessions (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-dont-smoke-marijuana/?utm_term=.e95ab5855f5f), Jay Inslee, Washington’s governor, and Ferguson showed dedication to supporting their state’s regulations of cannabis.
“Our state’s efforts to regulate the sale of marijuana are succeeding,” they claimed. “A few years ago, the illegal trafficking of marijuana lined the pockets of criminals everywhere. Now, in our state, illegal trafficking activity is being displaced by a closely regulated marijuana industry that pays hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes. This frees up significant law enforcement resources to protect our communities in other, more pressing ways.”
One state over, Earl Blumenauer, U.S. Representative from Oregon, posted an official statement on his website.
“I am deeply disappointed by Sean Spicer’s statement that he expects states to see ‘greater enforcement’ and crackdown on adult use of marijuana,” Blumenauer wrote. “The national prohibition of cannabis has been a failure, and millions of voters across the country have demanded a more sensible approach. I’m looking forward to working with the leadership of our newly formed cannabis caucus to ensure that Oregonian’s wishes are protected and that we end the failed prohibition on marijuana.”
California echoed similar sentiments via a letter from Lieutenant Governor Gavin Newsom, who referred to the statements from Spicer as “draconian” in light of recent cannabis reform.
“I urge you and your administration to work in partnership with California and the other eight states that have legalized recreational marijuana for adult use in a way that will let us enforce our state laws that protects the public and our children while targeting the bad actors,” Newsom wrote. “We have a shared goal of reducing crime, and the best way we can achieve that is through a tightly regulated market.”
Newsom also specifically called out Spicer for being misinformed when he compared recreational cannabis to the opiate crisis, declaring that cannabis is “nothing like opiates” and shared that the plant is in fact an alternative to harmfully addictive drugs like opiates.
Last but not least, Nevada State Senate Majority Leader Aaron Ford made a public statement to stand behind his state’s recent move to legalize.
“Any action by the Trump administration would be an insult to Nevada voters and would pick the pockets of Nevada’s students,” Ford claimed.
These statements echo those coming out of other legal states, such as Nevada and Colorado. It is clear that although some may feel threatened by federal officials, state governments will continue to defend state rights eloquently and confidently.
by Addison Herron-Wheeler | March 2, 2017
“We will resist any efforts to thwart the will of the voters in Washington,” Bob Ferguson, the state’s attorney general, told the Seattle Times.
Similarly, in a letter to U.S. attorney general Jeff Sessions (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-dont-smoke-marijuana/?utm_term=.e95ab5855f5f), Jay Inslee, Washington’s governor, and Ferguson showed dedication to supporting their state’s regulations of cannabis.
“Our state’s efforts to regulate the sale of marijuana are succeeding,” they claimed. “A few years ago, the illegal trafficking of marijuana lined the pockets of criminals everywhere. Now, in our state, illegal trafficking activity is being displaced by a closely regulated marijuana industry that pays hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes. This frees up significant law enforcement resources to protect our communities in other, more pressing ways.”
One state over, Earl Blumenauer, U.S. Representative from Oregon, posted an official statement on his website.
“I am deeply disappointed by Sean Spicer’s statement that he expects states to see ‘greater enforcement’ and crackdown on adult use of marijuana,” Blumenauer wrote. “The national prohibition of cannabis has been a failure, and millions of voters across the country have demanded a more sensible approach. I’m looking forward to working with the leadership of our newly formed cannabis caucus to ensure that Oregonian’s wishes are protected and that we end the failed prohibition on marijuana.”
California echoed similar sentiments via a letter from Lieutenant Governor Gavin Newsom, who referred to the statements from Spicer as “draconian” in light of recent cannabis reform.
“I urge you and your administration to work in partnership with California and the other eight states that have legalized recreational marijuana for adult use in a way that will let us enforce our state laws that protects the public and our children while targeting the bad actors,” Newsom wrote. “We have a shared goal of reducing crime, and the best way we can achieve that is through a tightly regulated market.”
Newsom also specifically called out Spicer for being misinformed when he compared recreational cannabis to the opiate crisis, declaring that cannabis is “nothing like opiates” and shared that the plant is in fact an alternative to harmfully addictive drugs like opiates.
Last but not least, Nevada State Senate Majority Leader Aaron Ford made a public statement to stand behind his state’s recent move to legalize.
“Any action by the Trump administration would be an insult to Nevada voters and would pick the pockets of Nevada’s students,” Ford claimed.
These statements echo those coming out of other legal states, such as Nevada and Colorado. It is clear that although some may feel threatened by federal officials, state governments will continue to defend state rights eloquently and confidently.
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
It's definitely true man. You can see it with @Baron23 and myself (I am sure he will not mind my using him as an example
). There are some political points where we differ, points of difference that would cause many to simply disengage from interacting with one another in this vitriolic political age. Still, he and I (like many of us here no doubt!), are united by our love and appreciation for hash and cannabis and are in lock-step agreement on a great many other things. We still have a mutual respect and appreciation just the same. It is much easier to look past even seemingly large differences of opinion if you instead focus on the things you have in common!When we stop to listen to others past their discrepant points of view to our own (especially understanding the 'why' behind these perspectives), we can usually see that they're just doing the best they can to make sense out of the information and experiences they've had - just like all of us.
One thing that we can disarm cannabis' opponents with is civility. If we in the cannabis community can show that we are civil, respectful of differences and able to get along with one another despite them, then we are ahead of most folks out there these days!
I am sure that those not won over to the cannabis cause will notice and appreciate this!
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yogoshio
Annoying Libertarian
Ummmm.....
http://dailycaller.com/2016/10/30/c...lary-lied-about-fbi-letter-to-congress-video/
And she still almost won the presidency.
CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
@yogoshio we aren't rehashing the election in this thread. We've had several threads shut down because the conversations get too heated and controversial as you have seen over the past few months or so. We really don't care about Hillary Clinton. There are more important issues.
I hope Oprah runs in 2020.
I hope Oprah runs in 2020.
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Deleted Member 1643
Well-Known Member
One thing that we can disarm cannabis' opponents with is civility. If we in the cannabis community can show that we are civil, respectful of differences and able to get along with one another despite them, then we are ahead of most folks out there these days!
I am sure that those not won over to the cannabis cause will notice and appreciate this!
Lovely point. Maybe we cannabists can preserve civility like monks in the dark ages. What if it spreads?
Baron23
Well-Known Member
Nah....it is indeed much worse than I have ever seen it in my 64 years. I really don't know the answer. I have a number of friends....dear old friends....who are very far from me on the political spectrum and I swear we all think the others must be some kind of alien because our views and thoughts on situations are so completely different. The differences are sometimes so vast its tempting for us to think the others are dissembling and inciting merely because its so hard to believe that they actually view things that way.
I really don't know how to bridge this divide.
I have just retired very recently and after a few trips this spring/summer I have some volunteer jobs lined up. Menial jobs (that's what I wanted) in a soup kitchen one day and at a local hospital another. I often think I will benefit from focusing on being of benefit to individuals and leave the macro social and political issues to others.
It's definitely true man. You can see it with @Baron23 and myself (I am sure he will not mind my using him as an example
I not only don't mind, I wish to thank you for your very articulate and insightful post. I couldn't agree more with both the statement that we have more in common than we are different and indeed that you and I share mutual respect and appreciation...on perhaps subject well beyond even cannabis . Friendship at a distance really. Thanks for writing this.
Cheers
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grokit
well-worn member
Yet he seems big on private prisons/police, who both want continued prohibition to justify expansion.
BabyFacedFinster
Anything worth doing, is worth overdoing.
Another thought I had was, if this "crackdown" occurs on recreational but not medical as they've hinted at. In the process of fighting it out, a backdoor way of dealing with the oppression could be for the legal states to expand their medical programs to be much more liberal and inclusive.
States could, instead, make it very easily and convenient for most people to obtain a medical card and then expand the number of medical suppliers. I'm not suggesting that states set up a dishonest system. I just mean if people want cannabis to help with stress, fatigue or any type of pain, etc then they can express this concern to a medical professional and get a low cost medical card. It would mean significantly expanding the qualifying conditions, reducing the burden of proof, and limiting the processing fee cost for applicants. I believe California's process is already the most liberal of all the medical states.
States could, instead, make it very easily and convenient for most people to obtain a medical card and then expand the number of medical suppliers. I'm not suggesting that states set up a dishonest system. I just mean if people want cannabis to help with stress, fatigue or any type of pain, etc then they can express this concern to a medical professional and get a low cost medical card. It would mean significantly expanding the qualifying conditions, reducing the burden of proof, and limiting the processing fee cost for applicants. I believe California's process is already the most liberal of all the medical states.
neverforget711
Well-Known Member
He's also made his fortune through tourism and recognizes what that means for those states. We've got Canada to compete with in this arena if we don't iron it out.Yet he seems big on private prisons/police, who both want continued prohibition to justify expansion.
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
Isn't that a nice thought - here's to hoping my friend!Lovely point. Maybe we cannabists can preserve civility like monks in the dark ages. What if it spreads?
Just imagine, stoners as the stewards and standard-holders of politeness through the Nasty Ages
Nah....it is indeed much worse than I have ever seen it in my 64 years. I really don't know the answer. I have a number of friends....dear old friends....who are very far from me on the political spectrum and I swear we all think the others must be some kind of alien because our views and thoughts on situations are so completely different. The differences are sometimes so vast its tempting for us to think the others are dissembling and inciting merely because its so hard to believe that they actually view things that way.
I really don't know how to bridge this divide.
I have just retired very recently and after a few trips this spring/summer I have some volunteer jobs lined up. Menial jobs (that's what I wanted) in a soup kitchen one day and at a local hospital another. I often think I will benefit from focusing on being of benefit to individuals and leave the macro social and political issues to others.
I not only don't mind, I wish to thank you for your very articulate and insightful post. I couldn't agree more with both the statement that we have more in common than we are different and indeed that you and I share mutual respect and appreciation...on perhaps subject well beyond even cannabis . Friendship at a distance really. Thanks for writing this.
Cheers
It is so true brother, I have seen so many good friendships torn asunder by all this recent political upheaval. It is such a shame to see.
Glad to hear you are dedicating time to helping individuals in need in your neighborhood man. Definitely something else we both agree on and when I retire, you'd better believe I'll wanna do a lot more of the same myself.
After all, the little tasks still need doing even while everybody is fighting over the big things!
Also the last post was a pleasure to write! I am so glad to count yourself and others here among my friends. I have met untold numbers of good people through this place and consider my peers here to be among the most sophisticated cannabis users that I know
This site is a breath of fresh air for the cannabis community - pun intended!