Tranquility
Well-Known Member
More data for when we do comparisons later (the link describing data https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus ):
COVID-19 News
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Tranquility
Well-Known Member
I think we both agree that the data are not complete as yet. Should we keep discussing it to assign blame? Also, the data are not the same. One set is a ratio and treats all countries equally and the other is a tally and would make higher populations look worse than smaller. (Although, depending on how EU is defined, it looks like they're doing a better job on overall deaths at this point.)
Gunky
Well-Known Member
The graphs above are somewhat misleading about the scale of differences between countries. The physical distance in the graph between 0 and 100 is the same as the distance between 100 and 1000. So it's some sort of logarithmic scale, which makes it easier to display the data but distorts the current relationships. It makes it look like the U.S. is just a bit further up. But it's not. If it were displayed in straight linear scale the U.S. current numbers would be way up over the top of the page. The problem with this is it gives the impression that average daily new cases in the U.S. are incrementally greater than the EU or Canada. The current situation in the U.S. is quite dire. We are in a far worse position than we were in March when we started shutting down. At that point we had maybe a few hundred seed cases. Now we have tens of thousands of new cases every day, adding to whatever existed yesterday. This is not good, folks. At this rate it burns through the entire population pretty quickly with a bunch of us oldsters ending up dead and a bunch of those left alive seriously mauled by the experience.
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cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
Freedom... Ugh.
Gunky
Well-Known Member
Oh gosh yes they'd be marching on the state capital with assault rifles defending their absolute right to " let it all hang out".
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
How about something everyone agrees on, schools. 
‘The Second Wave’ of COVID Hits Israel Like a Tsunami
On Tuesday, in testimony to the Israeli parliament, Dr. Udi Kliner, Sadetzki’s deputy, reported that schools—not restaurants or gyms—turned out to be the country’s worst mega-infectors.
(Again, this should be of interest to Americans who have been told by a presidential tweet in all caps that "SCHOOLS MUST OPEN IN THE FALL!!!")
The disastrous resurgence of the disease is having major political consequences.
What Parents Can Learn From Child Care Centers That Stayed Open During Lockdowns
"There are almost no recorded cases of child-to-adult transmission of COVID-19," says Elliot Haspel, an education policy expert and child care advocate who wrote an op-ed arguing for reopening full-time child care and schools as soon as possible. "It's not zero risk, [but] we're acting with a March 2020 understanding of COVID-19 and kids, and not with a June 2020 understanding of COVID-19 and kids."
No evidence of children passing on COVID-19 to relatives, says Icelandic study
Many countries are refusing to open their schools for fear of a prompting a second wave of coronavirus infections. But their policies would appear to be flatly contradicted by evidence from Iceland. There, a company called deCODE Genetics, in association with the country’s Directorate of Health and the National University Hospital, has analyzed the results of coronavirus tests on 36,500 people. The tests identified 1,801 cases of people suffering from the disease — and 10 deaths. Each case was carefully tracked. In not a single case could the researchers find evidence of a child passing on the disease to their parents.
No evidence of secondary transmission of COVID-19 from children attending school in Ireland, 2020
As many countries begin to lift some of the restrictions to contain COVID-19 spread, lack of evidence of transmission in the school setting remains. We examined Irish notifications of SARS-CoV2 in the school setting before school closures on 12 March 2020 and identified no paediatric transmission. This adds to current evidence that children do not appear to be drivers of transmission, and we argue that reopening schools should be considered safe accompanied by certain measures.
School Children Don’t Spread Coronavirus, French Study Shows
School kids don’t appear to transmit the new coronavirus to peers or teachers, a French study found, weighing in on the crucial topic of children’s role in propagating Covid-19.
Scientists at Institut Pasteur studied 1,340 people in Crepy-en-Valois, a town northeast of Paris that suffered an outbreak in February and March, including 510 students from six primary schools. They found three probable cases among kids that didn’t lead to more infections among other pupils or teachers.
Dutch coronavirus study: children are not big spreaders
A study by the Netherlands’ National Institute for Health (RIVM) published on Wednesday concluded that children under the age of 12 play little role in transmitting the new coronavirus.
The study in the country’s leading medical journal Nederlands Tijdschrift Voor Geneeskunde followed the progress of the disease in 54 families, including 227 people in all.
Studies in other countries have previously found that children are less often infected by the virus and, once infected, less often become seriously ill.
“Yes, children can become infected, but transmission takes place primarily between adults of similar age, and from adults to children,” the study said in its conclusion.
German study finds no evidence coronavirus spreads in schools
Schools do not play a major role in spreading the coronavirus, according to the results of a German study released on Monday.
The study, the largest carried out on schoolchildren and teachers in Germany, found traces of the virus in fewer than 1 per cent of teachers and children.
Scientists from Dresden Technical University said they believe children may act as a “brake” on chains of infection.
Prof Reinhard Berner, the head of pediatric medicine at Dresden University Hospital and leader of the study, said the results suggested the virus does not spread easily in schools.
“It is rather the opposite,” Prof Berner told a press conference. “Children act more as a brake on infection. Not every infection that reaches them is passed on.”
Children rarely transmit COVID-19, doctors write in new commentary
A commentary published in the journal Pediatrics concludes that children infrequently transmit COVID-19 to each other or to adults and that many schools, provided they follow appropriate social distancing guidelines and take into account rates of transmission in their community, can and should reopen in the fall.
‘The Second Wave’ of COVID Hits Israel Like a Tsunami
On Tuesday, in testimony to the Israeli parliament, Dr. Udi Kliner, Sadetzki’s deputy, reported that schools—not restaurants or gyms—turned out to be the country’s worst mega-infectors.
(Again, this should be of interest to Americans who have been told by a presidential tweet in all caps that "SCHOOLS MUST OPEN IN THE FALL!!!")
The disastrous resurgence of the disease is having major political consequences.
What Parents Can Learn From Child Care Centers That Stayed Open During Lockdowns
"There are almost no recorded cases of child-to-adult transmission of COVID-19," says Elliot Haspel, an education policy expert and child care advocate who wrote an op-ed arguing for reopening full-time child care and schools as soon as possible. "It's not zero risk, [but] we're acting with a March 2020 understanding of COVID-19 and kids, and not with a June 2020 understanding of COVID-19 and kids."
No evidence of children passing on COVID-19 to relatives, says Icelandic study
Many countries are refusing to open their schools for fear of a prompting a second wave of coronavirus infections. But their policies would appear to be flatly contradicted by evidence from Iceland. There, a company called deCODE Genetics, in association with the country’s Directorate of Health and the National University Hospital, has analyzed the results of coronavirus tests on 36,500 people. The tests identified 1,801 cases of people suffering from the disease — and 10 deaths. Each case was carefully tracked. In not a single case could the researchers find evidence of a child passing on the disease to their parents.
No evidence of secondary transmission of COVID-19 from children attending school in Ireland, 2020
As many countries begin to lift some of the restrictions to contain COVID-19 spread, lack of evidence of transmission in the school setting remains. We examined Irish notifications of SARS-CoV2 in the school setting before school closures on 12 March 2020 and identified no paediatric transmission. This adds to current evidence that children do not appear to be drivers of transmission, and we argue that reopening schools should be considered safe accompanied by certain measures.
School Children Don’t Spread Coronavirus, French Study Shows
School kids don’t appear to transmit the new coronavirus to peers or teachers, a French study found, weighing in on the crucial topic of children’s role in propagating Covid-19.
Scientists at Institut Pasteur studied 1,340 people in Crepy-en-Valois, a town northeast of Paris that suffered an outbreak in February and March, including 510 students from six primary schools. They found three probable cases among kids that didn’t lead to more infections among other pupils or teachers.
Dutch coronavirus study: children are not big spreaders
A study by the Netherlands’ National Institute for Health (RIVM) published on Wednesday concluded that children under the age of 12 play little role in transmitting the new coronavirus.
The study in the country’s leading medical journal Nederlands Tijdschrift Voor Geneeskunde followed the progress of the disease in 54 families, including 227 people in all.
Studies in other countries have previously found that children are less often infected by the virus and, once infected, less often become seriously ill.
“Yes, children can become infected, but transmission takes place primarily between adults of similar age, and from adults to children,” the study said in its conclusion.
German study finds no evidence coronavirus spreads in schools
Schools do not play a major role in spreading the coronavirus, according to the results of a German study released on Monday.
The study, the largest carried out on schoolchildren and teachers in Germany, found traces of the virus in fewer than 1 per cent of teachers and children.
Scientists from Dresden Technical University said they believe children may act as a “brake” on chains of infection.
Prof Reinhard Berner, the head of pediatric medicine at Dresden University Hospital and leader of the study, said the results suggested the virus does not spread easily in schools.
“It is rather the opposite,” Prof Berner told a press conference. “Children act more as a brake on infection. Not every infection that reaches them is passed on.”
Children rarely transmit COVID-19, doctors write in new commentary
A commentary published in the journal Pediatrics concludes that children infrequently transmit COVID-19 to each other or to adults and that many schools, provided they follow appropriate social distancing guidelines and take into account rates of transmission in their community, can and should reopen in the fall.
florduh
Well-Known Member
No matter how you define the EU, they have more people than the United States. And... The "fatality rate" numbers you posted also aren't complete without posting the number of confirmed cases. That's why I added it. The US has something like 4 times as many new daily cases as the EU. And the US has a smaller population.
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
"Complete"? What's that?
Fatality rate has to do with who is being exposed or how they're being treated. (Assuming same disease.) Ours is low. Either we're doing well at protecting the most vulnerable (hah), or we're doing better than others in identification and treatment.
Siebter
Less soul, more mind
How would that even be possible? You have lost so many lives already and I don't think they'll come back. Numbers are rising instead of falling. Florida is one of the epicenters right now. Don't you agree that a lot of damage has already been done, no matter how good a job the u.s. government will do in the future (which they obviously will not)?
Jeesus, this level of extrusion amazes me.
florduh
Well-Known Member
A low fatality rate isn't going to matter for long when the number of cases are trending up. As @Gunky said, our number of new cases is far, far higher than the EU's. Deaths lag cases by a few weeks.
The good news is, doctors are getting better at treating this and preventing deaths as time goes on. So places that were hit early like the EU, or NY should hopefully end up having a higher death rate than newer epicenters like Florida/Texas/Arizona.
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
You guys could be right, someday. Today, the facts indicate what they do and we have to suppose things to find differently.
The U.S. has done as well as most anyone so far and better than most.
The states will have a different result for many reasons. Including who ran them. If we take the growth difference of deaths between the two, things are going to have to be really bad for a while to get some of those R-led states up to the deaths per population of the D-led leaders.
The worst day for FL I see in the data are 156 deaths per day. At that rate and if NY stays at 0 deaths per day, FL is about 177 days from catching up to them. (July 17 https://www.statista.com/statistics/1103688/coronavirus-covid19-deaths-us-by-state/ )
32446 (NY deaths) - 4677 (FL deaths) = 27769
27669/156 = ~177
I suspect, FL, no matter how bad things go in the days to come is NOT going to come close to NY.
The U.S. has done as well as most anyone so far and better than most.
The states will have a different result for many reasons. Including who ran them. If we take the growth difference of deaths between the two, things are going to have to be really bad for a while to get some of those R-led states up to the deaths per population of the D-led leaders.
The worst day for FL I see in the data are 156 deaths per day. At that rate and if NY stays at 0 deaths per day, FL is about 177 days from catching up to them. (July 17 https://www.statista.com/statistics/1103688/coronavirus-covid19-deaths-us-by-state/ )
32446 (NY deaths) - 4677 (FL deaths) = 27769
27669/156 = ~177
I suspect, FL, no matter how bad things go in the days to come is NOT going to come close to NY.
Siebter
Less soul, more mind
No. You actually do very bad. You keep on dividing from each others while more than a hundred thousand people have died and millions lost their jobs. That's not doing good at all.
florduh
Well-Known Member
I certainly hope not. As I've said, doctors have been getting better at treating this thing. I'm betting that will have more to do with Florida ending up better than NY than a magical "R" or evil "D" after the governors names.
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hans solo
Left coast Canada
US-Canada, Mexico border closures extended into late August as American COVID-19 cases surge
The U.S-Canadian border closure is being extended a fourth time as COVID-19 rates surge in several American states.
www.usatoday.com
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
It might not be the leaders, but the people. (Who, elect the leaders.)
Florida gang members are organizing COVID-19 parties for up to 400 people with the intention of spreading the virus, sheriff claims
While I didn't see a lot of proof of their "intention", it certainly seems like there is an issue. I don't see any way you can really stop it without a LOT of force.
Florida gang members are organizing COVID-19 parties for up to 400 people with the intention of spreading the virus, sheriff claims
While I didn't see a lot of proof of their "intention", it certainly seems like there is an issue. I don't see any way you can really stop it without a LOT of force.
ClearBlueLou
unbearably light in the being....
On a strictly personal level, the idea of wearing a mask to a restaurant, where you will be constantly UNMASKING to feed yourself, is deranged. The idea that such a place could “safely open” is utter nonsense, and I simply can’t believe the number of fools who hear that, never think about what t means, and head out for dinner at the nearest Shoney’s.
It’s uncomfortably like an intelligence test to see who gets purged, if you ask me.
both Florida and Georgia have been deliberately concealing, confusing, and inaccurately reporting number for months now. Another example of gobsmacking shortsightedness: they are deliberately interfering with the accurate and timely flow of important data. More than that, they undertake steps to obscure the true number of Covid deaths, which not merely lies to the public now
By that logic, we should praise Africa for our only having, what, FOUR Ebola cases?
makes no sense, sorry.
FTR China didn’t “buy up” the PPE, they MAKE it - WE buy it from THEM, we stopped making such things ourselves because fewer big paychecks for us and more profits for the board and the shareholders. *STANDARD* MBA gospel.
Oh - no comment from anyone on Trump’s outright GIFT of PPE to RUSSIA *while* we were in a panic about where we were going to get the PPE *we* need?
It’s put a halt any reporting of current statistics. I would call it a deliberate blackout.
Is *that* freedom?
The men who sold those jobs to China have been paid: those jobs are GONE, the business class is not going to buy them back - all they’ll do is what they’re doing, pretending they had nothing to do with it and the rest of us need to tighten our belts and “find something new” to do
“essential” workers are *disposable* workers
(Why jobs aren’t coming back, pt 2)
No generalized blame? Only specifics?
Yet you get no more specific than making it clear that everything done by Republican will turn out to be smart and good, while making it clear that everything you think is bad currently is an active responsibility of the Democrats.
At the same time you wave away absolutely EVERY specific complaint about administration policies and actions.
I don’t think that makes you a hypocrite. I think it makes you intentionally manipulative and misleading.
I think it’s a dishonest way to participate, and I would like It if you to stop it[/QUOTE]
Yes, of course, you don’t think we should discuss the only things you talk about, entirely inappropriate...
...but I must talk about the part I have highlighted for you:
You seem oblivious to what was wrong with Trump’s travel bans (‘racist orange man bad’), so take note: the ban of travel from China as stupid and ineffective, because it was late, and because it allowed US citizens and residence to fly back, no problem, no’s worries, no PPE, no screening or contact-gathering of any kind at their return gates. These were largely professionals who had been in China, consulting, working with Chinese citizens JUST AS EXPOSED as they were, but while the CHINESE were forbidden to fly to the US, THE AMERICANS they’d been working, eating, and socializing with were allowed to return, and when they did, they brought the virus with them, in the form of active infections. They weren’t stopped, they weren’t checked, they wandered at random thru the airport without concern - talking, eating, handling things on their individual ways to their connective flights, baggage claim, or straight into a taxi to their hotel or home. For weeks.
The travel ban against Chinese travelers from China didn’t stop the virus. Didn’t slow, derail or confuse the virus. AT ALL. It failed COMPLETELY in protecting the US population, because it only banned the yellow people. Yes, eventually, grav ein
Love to hear your idea about why it’s failure had nothing to do with it only keeping out the Chinese....
The EXACT same scenario played out with the European ‘travel ban’: no action, followed by banning everyone but Americans and UKers from flying into the US From Europe *EVEN* if they’d use come from China and boarding a connecting flight to the States.- and this after much of Europe had shut down inter euro zone travel...and then nothing more done for too long.
To recap, the problem with the travel bans was that they were stupidly and obviously ineffective. The Chinese ban was only racist because of the way the obvious stupidity manifest...the assumption that *WE* don’t “carry disease”, it’s only *THOSE PEOPLE* we need to keep out.
A focused, sensible well-thought-out response would be nice, but based on your posts to this point, I don’t expect one.
Stu, pakalolo, mids - hope I have not crossed a line here. I won’t make a habit of taking apart every duplicitous post, I promise.
I thought this happened in Utah????
‘No mask, no entry. Is that clear enough? That seems pretty clear, right?’
We tried our best to be polite about it. I’d frame it to customers like they were doing us this big favor: “Would you please consider wearing a mask?” “May we offer you a free mask?” “We sure do appreciate your cooperation.”
We tried our best to be polite about it. I’d frame it to customers like they were doing us this big favor: “Would you please consider wearing a mask?” “May we offer you a free mask?” “We sure do appreciate your cooperation.”
Woman Urinates On Floor After Refusing To Leave Verizon Store For Not Wearing Mask
In a 911 call, you hear a dispatch operator tell an officer three people are “refusing to leave, not wearing a mask… they’ve asked several times and she refuses.”
About three minutes later the operator tells the officer, “They’re calling back and advising that that female is pulling down her pants and is now urinating inside the business.”
In a 911 call, you hear a dispatch operator tell an officer three people are “refusing to leave, not wearing a mask… they’ve asked several times and she refuses.”
About three minutes later the operator tells the officer, “They’re calling back and advising that that female is pulling down her pants and is now urinating inside the business.”
Polarbearboy
Tokin' Away Since 1968
Would it be possible to venture a guess as to what party she identifies with and who her candidate for President might be? Asking for my friend Sherlock.
Siebter
Less soul, more mind
You guys keep dividing. No wonder wearing a mask or not has become a political statement instead of a social action.
florduh
Well-Known Member
This is a creepy ass virus. One study shows COVID-19 may "silence" our pain receptors, so you don't know it's there for a while. That may help explain asymptomatic folks spreading it.
SARS-CoV-2 Spike protein hijacks VEGF-A/Neuropilin-1 receptor signaling to induce analgesia
SARS-CoV-2 Spike protein hijacks VEGF-A/Neuropilin-1 receptor signaling to induce analgesia
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