cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
This is comedy, right?
COVID-19 News
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I can certainly understand a non-citizen being bewildered viewing the USA from afar. Yeah, it's weird here, and it should not be. It seems reasonable to wear masks when out in public.
Edit: For example: Man arrested at Tumwater Fred Meyer for pointing gun at customer who told him to 'put on a mask
A man allegedly pulled a gun on another customer over being asked to wear a face mask at a Fred Meyer in Tumwater this week, according to the Thurston County Prosecutor's Office.
Edit: For example: Man arrested at Tumwater Fred Meyer for pointing gun at customer who told him to 'put on a mask
A man allegedly pulled a gun on another customer over being asked to wear a face mask at a Fred Meyer in Tumwater this week, according to the Thurston County Prosecutor's Office.
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cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
I am trying really hard to answer your post in a way that doesn't get me in trouble with the mods. Maybe discretion is the better part of valor and I should just say nothing. I'm not terribly good at that.
Suffice to say that acknowledging that "certain people" hold "certain positions" is not dividing people, it is facing facts. There is an affiliation in America who clearly encompass the VAST majority of people who choose to ignore the science and refuse to behave in a way that protects other people around them. People are literally dying because of that. Pointing that out is NOT dividing people, it is speaking facts. I happen to believe based on previous posts you have made that you seem to understand that there are facts in the world and that everything is not a matter of opinion. That is why I guessed that you must have been kidding when you suggested that commenting on or pointing out that some people stupidly or selfishly behave in antisocial ways is dividing people. I wouldn't have expected you to take that position and apparently I was wrong. The failure is mine. It has always been my belief that when you see something wrong, especially when it is something dangerous, that you speak out. Personally I think it is my duty as an American to speak out when America fucks up. I recognize that this may not be the venue for that, but I also believe that if it is important enough sometimes you have to be willing to brush up against the rules.
Siebter
Less soul, more mind
@cybrguy – Apparently you missed that I was referring to the previous comment by @Polarbearboy, who was asking „what party she identifies with and who her candidate for President might be“. As a person who indeed watches the situation in the u.s. from the outside I find it remarkable to ask for political preferences of a person who behaves like that. I just don't think it's okay to use this crisis for political fights. I do understand that it was Trump and the Republicans who started this, but it's a bit concerning to see the Democrats and all the non-Republicans playing along. *All* you guys need a bit of a different mindset about this. If I may say so (yeah, I know I don't).
cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
I didn't miss it and I didn't see it as a question but as a declaration.
I think it is crucial for the future of international relations that the world understand that it is the Republican party that is acting this way, not America. Only then can they have any faith that America can recover from these terrible times when we successfully excise the crazy and the corruption, as best we can, in November. Unfortunately the republicans hold all the power in America today, with the creature in the whitehouse, the majority in the Senate and a criminal hold of the justice department due to a traitor at its head being allowed to serve the interest of one man rather than those of the nation. This is NOT how America is supposed to work, but the Senate is paralyzed by the majority party's fear that the monster in the whitehouse will be mean to them. I know it makes no sense, but it is the unfortunate reality of our time. The governments Covid response is only one example of how these circumstances have corrupted our nation, but it is the one that is most directly killing Americans and is the subject of this thread so it is the one I address. Covid is effecting the whole world, but it's most excruciating successes have been here, in the wealthiest and what used to be the most forward thinking nation of the world, one that has been moving backward at a frightening paces for nearly 4 full years now. Our only chance to keep the number of dead from surpassing all the lives lost to war since the civil war is to put someone else in charge of our covid response before it is too late, and January 20 is not soon enough. I don't have a lot of hope in this regard...
I think it is crucial for the future of international relations that the world understand that it is the Republican party that is acting this way, not America. Only then can they have any faith that America can recover from these terrible times when we successfully excise the crazy and the corruption, as best we can, in November. Unfortunately the republicans hold all the power in America today, with the creature in the whitehouse, the majority in the Senate and a criminal hold of the justice department due to a traitor at its head being allowed to serve the interest of one man rather than those of the nation. This is NOT how America is supposed to work, but the Senate is paralyzed by the majority party's fear that the monster in the whitehouse will be mean to them. I know it makes no sense, but it is the unfortunate reality of our time. The governments Covid response is only one example of how these circumstances have corrupted our nation, but it is the one that is most directly killing Americans and is the subject of this thread so it is the one I address. Covid is effecting the whole world, but it's most excruciating successes have been here, in the wealthiest and what used to be the most forward thinking nation of the world, one that has been moving backward at a frightening paces for nearly 4 full years now. Our only chance to keep the number of dead from surpassing all the lives lost to war since the civil war is to put someone else in charge of our covid response before it is too late, and January 20 is not soon enough. I don't have a lot of hope in this regard...
ClearBlueLou
unbearably light in the being....
Siebter, I understand your interest, and I appreciate your comments, but there simply is no way to meaningfully respond to the substance of your post without crossing a clear red line: the line of overt political commentary.
In simple terms, I see no way to respond meaningfully without starting a fight.
In simple terms, I see no way to respond meaningfully without starting a fight.
Siebter
Less soul, more mind
I can only speak for myself, but for me it's not quite as simple. It's not only about Trump and the Republican party but also about how „the rest of you” is acting within this situation. I see a lot of outsourcing of responsibility for each other, which should be present at any time no matter what party someone believes in and should definitely not wait until the current president is dismissed. Pointing at each other and feeding prejudice about someones political believes is not a sign for the willingness to stay together. The social gap between the two political groups will not vanish when and because Biden is president.
@ClearBlueLou – I'm not attacking anyone and don't see me being attacked. On the contrary, I try to explain that this is not the time to attack each other and that a pandemic should not be used to have political arguments.
Shrike
Flower Potted, Maxed, & Rio'd.
Whenever I see Sean Hannity come on TV, the only mantra I hear in my head over and over is..."Democrats bad, Republican's good"
The current conversation is pretty much the same...but reversed. Both are nauseating to me...but that's just me. YMMV...and certainly does.
The current conversation is pretty much the same...but reversed. Both are nauseating to me...but that's just me. YMMV...and certainly does.
florduh
Well-Known Member
Whenever I see Sean Hannity come on TV, the only mantra I hear in my head over and over is..."Democrats bad, Republican's good"
The current conversation is pretty much the same...but reversed. Both are nauseating to me...but that's just me. YMMV...and certainly does.
I'm not gonna touch your comment with a 10 foot pole.
But since we're all way off topic anyway, I'll just say... your avatar fucking owns. I just started re-reading the Hyperion Cantos again. Actually listening to the audiobooks. Kind of lazy, but I stare at computer screens all day for work so I'm trying to save my eyes. Same reason I've stopped zonking out in front of the Netflix box.
That's how I've been spending COVID Time. Listening to old Science Fiction. In the dark. After a few dabs. Visiting future societies that are beyond all this bullshit. It's greatly helped my mental health.
cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
As @ClearBlueLou says this is impossible to do within the rules, so this is my last post in this vein. Your post points out my greatest fear, that the world might think what they are seeing is what America stands for and/or thinks, while I and all those who think like me, and we are many and probably most, try to fight it with everything we have and in any way we can. Our only remaining tool is our election. I disengage.
Siebter
Less soul, more mind
Nah. :-)
florduh
Well-Known Member
Another chloroquine study. It didn't do any better than a placebo in reducing COVID symptoms. Adding zinc or vitamin C didn't help. And 43% of those on the drug experienced adverse side effects.
Hydroxychloroquine in Nonhospitalized Adults With Early COVID-19
Results:
Of 491 patients randomly assigned to a group, 423 contributed primary end point data. Of these, 341 (81%) had laboratory-confirmed infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) or epidemiologically linked exposure to a person with laboratory-confirmed infection; 56% (236 of 423) were enrolled within 1 day of symptoms starting. Change in symptom severity over 14 days did not differ between the hydroxychloroquine and placebo groups (difference in symptom severity: relative, 12%; absolute, −0.27 points [95% CI, −0.61 to 0.07 points]; P **= 0.117). At 14 days, 24% (49 of 201) of participants receiving hydroxychloroquine had ongoing symptoms compared with 30% (59 of 194) receiving placebo (**P **= 0.21). Medication adverse effects occurred in 43% (92 of 212) of participants receiving hydroxychloroquine versus 22% (46 of 211) receiving placebo (**P **< 0.001). With placebo, 10 hospitalizations occurred (2 non–COVID-19–related), including 1 hospitalized death. With hydroxychloroquine, 4 hospitalizations occurred plus 1 nonhospitalized death (**P = 0.29).
Limitations:
Only 58% of participants received SARS-CoV-2 testing because of severe U.S. testing shortages.
Conclusion:
Hydroxychloroquine did not substantially reduce symptom severity in outpatients with early, mild COVID-19.
Additional post hoc analyses showed that self-reported use of zinc or vitamin C in addition to hydroxychloroquine did not improve symptoms over use of hydroxychloroquine alone
Hydroxychloroquine in Nonhospitalized Adults With Early COVID-19
Results:
Of 491 patients randomly assigned to a group, 423 contributed primary end point data. Of these, 341 (81%) had laboratory-confirmed infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) or epidemiologically linked exposure to a person with laboratory-confirmed infection; 56% (236 of 423) were enrolled within 1 day of symptoms starting. Change in symptom severity over 14 days did not differ between the hydroxychloroquine and placebo groups (difference in symptom severity: relative, 12%; absolute, −0.27 points [95% CI, −0.61 to 0.07 points]; P **= 0.117). At 14 days, 24% (49 of 201) of participants receiving hydroxychloroquine had ongoing symptoms compared with 30% (59 of 194) receiving placebo (**P **= 0.21). Medication adverse effects occurred in 43% (92 of 212) of participants receiving hydroxychloroquine versus 22% (46 of 211) receiving placebo (**P **< 0.001). With placebo, 10 hospitalizations occurred (2 non–COVID-19–related), including 1 hospitalized death. With hydroxychloroquine, 4 hospitalizations occurred plus 1 nonhospitalized death (**P = 0.29).
Limitations:
Only 58% of participants received SARS-CoV-2 testing because of severe U.S. testing shortages.
Conclusion:
Hydroxychloroquine did not substantially reduce symptom severity in outpatients with early, mild COVID-19.
Additional post hoc analyses showed that self-reported use of zinc or vitamin C in addition to hydroxychloroquine did not improve symptoms over use of hydroxychloroquine alone
Gunky
Well-Known Member
The problem with American power structures at present is you can't just say everybody has a point of view and difference of opinion and the parties are equivalent. They aren't! The Republican party used to be a normal party. Years ago I would have tended to agree that we shouldn't point the finger at one party. But this party has changed, drastically. It has begun to deny science. Not just a little, either. This party is now getting to the point where they insist there is no such thing as expertise. They insist that things which are transparently, obviously untrue are nevertheless true! This is a very asymmetric situation. One of the parties accepts science, accepts evidence. The other party is impervious to evidence and thinks science just gets in the way of religion. For the last several years the weird, fact-defying, vote suppressing, system gaming, cheating Republican party has been the elephant in the room for all of us here. Trump is now declaring right out in the open, repeatedly, that if we just test less, we'll have fewer covid cases. This is insane! But nobody in his party will speak up.
florduh
Well-Known Member
I mean, I sort of thought taking an immunosuppressant during a pandemic was a bad idea. But I'm not a doctor, so I waited for the science. I also would take any effective drugs at this point. This wasn't a huge study, but if HCQ was remotely effective certainly ONE out of 400+ patients would've seen improvement. And 43% reported adverse side effects.
Another study shows it inhibits the early immune response to COVID. So taking it as a prophylactic seems particularly ill advised.
It's already not going well for Brazilians, but as an American I can't throw any bricks from my glass house. In Floriduh
.
Shrike
Flower Potted, Maxed, & Rio'd.
Yeah...the Cantos became my favorite SF series from the time I first picked up Hyperion in the '80's. Would love to see them do it properly on TV as maybe a 4 year series treating each book to a season...but so afraid they would totally fuck it up as so many other great books have been ruined.
But man, seeing a 9 foot Shrike, all blades with those gleaming red eyes would be something...
And no need to touch my comment...it was just meant to express that I follow no dogma on either side...plenty of blame for everything that's happened to us in the last 60+ years on both sides. All I can really hope for is that term limits are eventually put on ALL politicians and we try our best to vote for people that will do the least amount of damage during their incumbencies. It's not going to happen any time soon, but I hope we all wake up some day and realize that we still maintain the power...pretty soon, we may not have that high ground any more.
florduh
Well-Known Member
I co-sign all of this. I have the same mixed feelings about a number of Sci-Fi series.
Yep. At this point I view electoral politics as harm reduction.
Marlon Rando
Well-Known Member
Gunky
Well-Known Member
This is a good example of Republican mountebanks and con-men attempting to deny that there is such a thing as expertise. Virtually everything he says is a lie. One example suffices. The experts did not 'predict' 2 million deaths. They did some modeling and said if certain things were not done, then the death toll could rise to 2 million. As it happens, the default do-nothing-act-like-everything-is-normal scenario did not take place. The country underwent a lock-down. So this cat is totally misrepresenting the science he is so derisive about. This attitude, this nihilism, this lack of any standards, these attempts to undermine science and reason - do not bode well for our country.
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