Corona Vaping

[TommyDee]

The failure has happened but the governments are only starting to look at getting involved. Serious calculus on a political level of course. But don't think that moment is behind us for a second. This is history in the making. We are in on the second chapter. This could be a novel.

 

[EmDeemo]

I'd like a momento for the moment but all I got was this lousy cough.

 

[TommyDee]

I'm sure they'll give you the xray when they're done with it.

 

[EmDeemo]

I'm watching Zombie Flesh Eaters.

Has anyone brought up the possibility that this is all voodoo?

 

[TommyDee]

As a denial or just for the sake of occultism?

 

[CalyxSmokr]

Naff all. But some people like to know. And like he said, it def will matter. If for nothing else to stop an entire nation being scapegoated by morons.

China will be scapegoated either way. Trump is the scapegoat president.

 

[EmDeemo]

China will be scapegoated either way. Trump is the scapegoat president.

Trump isnt the rest of the world.

EDIT: Wait, im arguing again. I really need to leave this thread alone

 

[GetLeft]

was prohibitally and specifically paused by the US GOV due to the innate dangers involved and ethical questionability.

@invertedisdead thanks for the detailed response. I do tend to read the stuff that's referenced before I respond. I hadn't read the gain of function link, but that wasn't in the post I was responding to, I don't think. Any way, it's been read. Is it not in reference to USG funding for the GoF research? I think lots of labs get funding from other places than USG. Like drug companies who might be thinking ahead and looking to cash in on a vaccine for a virus that's bound to pounce at one point or another. One thing is not to fund. Another is to legally prohibit.

Don't get me worng, I'm not saying that experimenting with pandameic causing viruses is not messed up. But I do think science takes risks and sometimes with good intentions rather than bad ones (even science conducted by the Chinese). The GoF link acknowledges at least two good intentions ("earlier awareness of naturally emerging dangerous pandemic pathogens" and "the development of medical products in anticipation of such emergence"). All in all the GoF link is a well reasoned (albeit half-hearted) statement intended to address concerns over dangerous experimentation. I'm still not able to make the leap that the guy in the video is making. But I'm no expert

 

[CalyxSmokr]

Trump isnt the rest of the world.

EDIT: Wait, im arguing again. I really need to leave this thread alone

the rest of the dictators of the world follow trump's lead.
and china may be culpable. I just feel that right now that just contributes to the ball of confusion

 

[TommyDee]

At this point withholding vital knowledge would be criminal on a level of crimes to humanity separate from the original incident - wet market or lab escaped. If China knows it came from the lab and they are hiding research that could lead to a vaccine with more eyes on it in a timely fashion, then this is at this stage a crime against humanity. Note the IF. I'm not accusing. I asked the question based on this premise and this premise only that I asked respectfully earlier if science could prove if the virus was manufactured or not, given a reasonable time to hash out all doubt, within a reasonable period of say 10 years or so.

 

[CalyxSmokr]

At this point withholding vital knowledge would be criminal on a level of crimes to humanity separate from the original incident - wet market or lab escaped. If China knows it came from the lab and they are hiding research that could lead to a vaccine with more eyes on it in a timely fashion, then this is at this stage a crime against humanity. Note the IF. I'm not accusing. I asked the question based on this premise and this premise only that I asked respectfully earlier if science could prove if the virus was manufactured or not, given a reasonable time to hash out all doubt, within a reasonable period of say 10 years or so.

they test the genetic structure of the virus to track it. consensus is it came from the wet markets.
but you see even if that is the answer nobody is satisfied

 

[TommyDee]

Exactly - what is the source information that gives this consensus legitimacy? Thanks for helping me clarify my interim question.

 

[CalyxSmokr]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41...cebook&utm_campaign=NatureNews_&sf231597135=1

 

[Siebter]

It's interesting that these kind of theories come up at all. A virus like that, after all, is very natural. The circumstances might not be (globalization etc.) but the virus itself... what would make one assume that it would be a bio warfare accident?

In Germany we recently had a mass mortality among blue tits (the bird, not the... whatever), about 26,000 birds died from Suttonella ornithocola, a bacterium that caused a fatal lung disease. I would so love to come up with a theory that somehow connects this incident to I don't know Great Britain? That's where this bacterium was documented for the first time. GB, the country that recently decided to leave the EU – coincidence? Hardly.

Seriously, I'm not trying to make fun of anyone and I'm totally into skepticism and open eyeness, but I can't quite relate to the mindset of these claims. If they were true it would be indeed very interesting. But they are not interesting before they turn out to be true or false, are they?

 

[TommyDee]

Thanks for that. Concise and quick. Not nearly enough. Reads like propaganda on first review (gut reaction) of full text. I'll have to review the authors but good data.

 

[Siebter]

Reads like propaganda on first review (gut reaction) [...]

Wha...? Tommy, do you even know that source? :-)

 

[EmDeemo]

It's interesting that these kind of theories come up at all. A virus like that, after all, is very natural. The circumstances might not be (globalization etc.) but the virus itself... what would make one assume that it would be a bio warfare accident?

In Germany we recently had a mass mortality among blue tits (the bird, not the... whatever), about 26,000 birds died from Suttonella ornithocola, a bacterium that caused a fatal lung disease. I would so love to come up with a theory that somehow connects this incident to I don't know Great Britain? That's where this bacterium was documented for the first time. GB, the country that recently decided to leave the EU – coincidence? Hardly.

Seriously, I'm not trying to make fun of anyone and I'm totally into skepticism and open eyeness, but I can't quite relate to the mindset of these claims. If they were true it would be indeed very interesting. But they are not interesting before they turn out to be true or false, are they?

This was my point when I said I'd been worried about this for 30 years already, this has been on the cards for a loooooong time. This endless search for a 'culprit' and desperation to discredit anything mainstream as propaganda is just... its a snake eating its own tail.

the rest of the dictators of the world follow trump's lead.
and china may be culpable. I just feel that right now that just contributes to the ball of confusion

Vastly over stating Trumps standing on the global stage there.

 

[vapviking]

Halle-fucking-lujah, he's decided we're not worth it!

"What is the purpose of having White House News Conferences when the Lamestream Media asks nothing but hostile questions, & then refuses to report the truth or facts accurately. They get record ratings, & the American people get nothing but Fake News. Not worth the time & effort!"

I think his big mistake was stopping short on the crazy; he's got so much WWE experience yet to be drawn on. Break a chair over Yamiche Alcindor or brandish "the football" or something. Ratings through the roof!

 

[EmDeemo]

He's a coward who would normally hide behind the threat of litigation and NDAs. Surprised he went on with this fucking charade this long tbh.

Boy got shamed, took his toys home.

 

[Morty]

But no research any of us on this board can do is going to provide firm, concrete answers until it becomes a firm, concrete fact. So it quickly devolves into nothing but a terrifying story and a game of 'who has the more credible appearing link' mixed in with a whole bunch of opinion, further getting peoples knickers in a twist and raising the personal anxiety level. Its not going to accomplish much.

We still have other possibilities as to how this virus could have come about (I think? Thats opinion, and I know absolutely fuck all )

What to believe ?

Spoiler

It's important to note that whether or not you believe this virus was created in a lab is essentially irrelevant in the grand scheme: what's important to realize is that these dangerous and highly experimental biosafety laboratories do exist, they are experimenting with morally and ethically disconcerting "scientific practices" including genetic modification, and all of the technology does exist and has been demonstrated to accomplish what has been outlined.

That leaves the only part left for critical thinking, is to decide whether this was an accident or intentional. It's existence cannot be denied.

http://outbreaknewstoday.com/plum-i...ility-is-an-accident-waiting-to-happen-55361/

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Dow...1!1s0x87bc2d7fbe8a4145:0xc6aebaa3a23af35a!3e0

I suggest anyone with a half functioning medula...

Well, I guess that's my queue to hit hit the old dusty trail.

Spoiler

 

[vapviking]

Shout out to the mods for letting us all ramble about with utter disregard for original topic!
There'd be very little left.

 

[EmDeemo]

What to believe ?

Spoiler

YES!

 

[invertedisdead]

the virus itself... what would make one assume that it would be a bio warfare accident?

A warm and hearty combination of military experience and published science!


Influenza As A Bioweapon
Published by the Journal Of The Royal Society of Medicine, 2003

"In addition to such spontaneous mutations, we must, since the terrorist attacks of September and October 2001, consider the possibility of malicious genetic engineering to create more virulent strains. Sequencing of the genome of the 1918 Spanish influenza virus is nearly complete; once it is published, unscrupulous scientists could presumably utilize candidate virulence sequences.8,9 Recently, the possibility of synthesizing an infectious agent solely by following instructions from a written sequence has moved from theory to practice."

"Secondly, because influenza occurs naturally, a cluster of cases would not prompt an investigation, and an epidemic would have a considerable head start on public health authorities."

"In addition, because of the similarity between early symptoms of influenza and other bioterror agents (such as anthrax), clinicians need to understand the differences in symptoms and signs and be aware of the initial screening tests for anthrax and influenza. Since the two diseases could coexist it is unfortunate that there are, to date, no point-of-care tests to diagnose both and thus minimize confusion and panic."

Potential strategies and biosafety protocols used for dual-use research on highly pathogenic influenza viruses

"Influenza A viruses (IAVs), particularly the highly pathogenic avian influenza H5N1, have posed a substantial threat to public health worldwide. Although the laboratory generation of the mutant influenza virus H5N1 with airborne transmissibility among mammals, which has been considered as a dual-use research, may benefit the development of effective vaccines and therapeutics against the emerging infectious agents, it may also pose threats to national biosecurity, laboratory biosafety, and/or public health."

Bird-flu research: The biosecurity oversight
https://www.nature.com/news/bird-flu-research-the-biosecurity-oversight-1.10695

"Soon after, the NIH commissioned and funded several such projects, including one from Ron Fouchier at the Erasmus Medical Center in Rotterdam, the Netherlands, and one from Yoshihiro Kawaoka at the University of Wisconsin-Madison and the University of Tokyo. Robert Webster, a virologist at St Jude Children's Research Hospital in Memphis, Tennessee, and a member of the blue-ribbon panel, says that it paid close attention to the stringent biosafety requirements of such work, but that dual-use concerns “didn't really surface”.

They should have, says Keim. The experiments committed at least two of the Fink report's deadly sins: they deliberately changed the host range of a pathogen and they increased its transmissibility. “You think about adapting H5N1 to mammals,” Keim says, and you quickly “realize that there is the potential to do something very dangerous"."

"There is no technical barrier to biosecurity in theory" - Food & Agriculturue Organization Of The United Nations
http://www.fao.org/3/i0359e/i0359e00.htm

"A new analysis of synthetic biologic threats commissioned by the US Department of Defense (DoD) found that three capabilities raise the greatest concerns: re-creating known pathogenic viruses, making existing bacteria more dangerous, and using microbes to produce harmful biochemical in humans." - Center For Infectious Disease Research & Policy

"Regarding chemicals, biochemical, and toxins, the experts said synthetic biology blurs the lines between chemical and biological weapons. They said high-potency molecules produced through simple genetic pathways are the greatest concern, "as they could conceivably be developed with modest resources and organizational footprint.""

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-per...port-spotlights-top-synthetic-biology-threats

Six policy options for conducting gain-of-function research
"The NAS meeting marks a turning point in a year-and-a-half-long policy process to consider the risks, benefits, oversight, and regulation of experiments that are designed to create influenza and other viruses that are simultaneously highly virulent and readily transmissible by respiratory droplets between mammals.

Such viruses, which have been called potential pandemic pathogens (PPPs), raise the specter that accidental release or deliberate misuse could spark a widespread epidemic, perhaps global, transmission of a novel and highly lethal virus. "
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-per...icy-options-conducting-gain-function-research

US policy pushes institutions to scrutinize dual-use research

"The DURC definition further specifies seven types of experiments: those that aim to or are expected to:

• Enhance the harmful effects of the agent or toxin
• Disrupt immunity or the effects of immunization without clinical or agriculture justification
• Render the agent resistant to preventive or treatment drugs or increase the agent's ability to evade detection
• Increase the stability or transmissibility of an agent or the ability to disseminate it
• Change an agent's host range or tropism
• Enhance host susceptibility to an agent
• Generates an extinct agent among the 15, such as variola or rinderpest virus"

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-per...hes-institutions-scrutinize-dual-use-research

More problems shutter CDC labs, prompt review


"Nicholas Evans, PhD, who signed the statement and is beginning a postdoctoral research fellowship in at the University of Pennsylvania Department of Medical Ethics and Health Policy, said he was invited to speak on bioethics at the group's meeting, based on his dissertation on dual-use research and earlier connections on the topic that he made with other members.

He said conversations about dual-use research need to be transparent, with all parts of society participating. "Soon, experiments on potential pandemic pathogens will be possible not just in government or university labs, but anywhere," Evans said. "We need to ask fundamental questions about how we do science, and what science we ought to do, to better all of us."

"Thomas Inglesby, MD, chief executive officer and director of the Center for Health Security at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, said it will be important to learn how the H5N1 contamination occurred at the CDC lab to adapt lab safety systems to prevent similar occurrences in the future. "But at a higher level, this shows that even in one of the most expert, highly qualified labs in the world, inadvertent events and human errors can occur," he said."

"Michael J. Imperiale, PhD, professor in the Department of Microbiology and Immunology at the University of Michigan Medical School, said everyone, including those who do GOF research, say their labs are secure. "But what we've learned this week is that accidents do happen.""

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2014/07/more-problems-shutter-cdc-labs-prompt-review

 

[vapviking]

And it's off to the races, coming to an attack ad near you.

from Politico:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/24/gop-memo-anti-china-coronavirus-207244

The National Republican Senatorial Committee has sent campaigns a detailed, 57-page memo authored by a top Republican strategist advising GOP candidates to address the coronavirus crisis by aggressively attacking China.

The memo includes advice on everything from how to tie Democratic candidates to the Chinese government to how to deal with accusations of racism. It stresses three main lines of assault: That China caused the virus “by covering it up,” that Democrats are “soft on China,” and that Republicans will “push for sanctions on China for its role in spreading this pandemic.”

“Coronavirus was a Chinese hit-and-run followed by a cover-up that cost thousands of lives,” the April 17 memo states.
The document urges candidates to stay relentlessly on message against the country when responding to any questions about the virus. When asked whether the spread of the coronavirus is Trump’s fault, candidates are advised to respond by pivoting to China.

“Don’t defend Trump, other than the China Travel Ban — attack China,” the memo states.

The document urges candidates to stay relentlessly on message against the country when responding to any questions about the virus. When asked whether the spread of the coronavirus is Trump’s fault, candidates are advised to respond by pivoting to China.

“Don’t defend Trump, other than the China Travel Ban — attack China,” the memo states.

 

[EmDeemo]

Interview with Sweden's top man on the job...

And the UK's top nerd response...