Cops can no longer make you wait for a K9.

Jared

Cannabis Enthusiast
This is absolutely HUGE. Even for just ten minutes cops can no longer make you wait for a K9 without probable cause as ruled 6-3 by the supreme Court today. Even if the dog is ALREADY ON THE SCENE they cannot turn the regular traffic stop into a K9 sniff without probable cause.

I wonder if this means the pending charges I have against me in Tennessee will be dropped now? I was pulled over and made to wait roughly 30 minutes for a drug dog to come without even so much as reasonable suspicion.

http://thehill.com/regulation/court...rules-cops-cant-hold-suspects-to-wait-for-dog
 
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Jared

Cannabis Enthusiast
It doesn't matter if cops follow it or not. I don't think anyone expects cops to actually follow the laws these days.

What does matter is when someone has it recorded and shows the recording in court that the police officer had no probable cause. Before it wouldn't have mattered, now the person can't be charged for anything found after being made to unconstitutionally wait for a K9. This is a big deal.
 

Roth

Pining for the Mountains
Wow, that definitely is a big deal!

Now to just prevent them from claiming they "smelled" something to gain false PC.



Edit: And hope they don't come up with some sort of time stalling device to allow the dog to get there. You know, like taking a long time to run your info.
 

Jared

Cannabis Enthusiast
Wow, that definitely is a big deal!

Now to just prevent them from claiming they "smelled" something to gain false PC.
Looks like Massachusetts is ahead of the game

http://www.thefix.com/content/smell-weed-no-longer-probable-cause-cops-massachusetts

Edit: And hope they don't come up with some sort of time stalling device to allow the dog to get there. You know, like taking a long time to run your info.

Time isn't a factor. A K9 officer could pull you over with a K9 in the back of his car and he still couldn't have it sniff your car without probable cause anymore.
 
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Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker

Jared

Cannabis Enthusiast
If they want to stop you, they'll make something up to justify the stop & search effort. Example: Weaving in traffic - your word against the cop's... just sayin.
Weaving in traffic is not probable cause for a search. No one is claiming cops won't pull you over for nothing. Just that they can't use that as a reason to have a K9 come and sniff anymore. And if they do try to use you weaving in and out of traffic or you going 3 mph over as probable cause to search you should be recording and it will not hold up in court as of today.

Not sure why you guys keep trying to poke holes in this ruling or find something negative about it. It's cut and dry and an incredibly favorable ruling for the people.

Edit: You guys who think that there is some way to get the cops to follow the law or uphold the constitution are delusional. That is never going to happen. It is up to YOU to record the stop on your phone so that you have evidence to use against the police later in court. The police are going to try and fuck you anyway they can legal or not and I think we all know that. This ruling isn't going to stop corrupt police this ruling is going to give you a chance to fight them and win whereas before you had zero chance.
 
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Jared,

Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
Weaving in traffic is not probable cause for a search. No one is claiming cops won't pull you over for nothing. Just that they can't use that as a reason to have a K9 come and sniff anymore. And if they do try to use you weaving in and out of traffic or you going 3 mph over as probable cause to search you should be recording and it will not hold up in court as of today.

Not sure why you guys keep trying to poke holes in this ruling or find something negative about it. It's cut and dry and an incredibly favorable ruling for the people.
Not trying to argue, just generally don't trust cops... law or no law.

EDIT: I beg your pardon! ...I, for one, harbor no delusions whatsoever regarding cops and my protections under the law, and my own self-generated protections.
 
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FlyingLow

Team NO SLEEP!
They also don't have to tell you they are waiting for a k9...

They can just as easily skirt this ruling by calling and waiting for the k9 the moment they grab your license and go to their car to check your record. They could simply not return to your window until the k9 is there.
 

Jared

Cannabis Enthusiast
They also don't have to tell you they are waiting for a k9...

They can just as easily skirt this ruling by calling and waiting for the k9 the moment they grab your license and go to their car to check your record. They could simply not return to your window until the k9 is there.
I've posted this twice already once in the OP and again as a reply.

Time is not a factor. It's not like if they trick you into waiting a certain amount of time for the dog to get there they automatically have probable cause to sniff.

Like I said a K9 officer could pull you over with a dog in the back and without probable cause he still couldn't sniff you. And before you say he will manufacturer probable cause - so what? Record it. It's your responsibility not the cops to prove that you are innocent. It is his job to extract as much money as he can from you and nothing more. No that's not how it's supposed to be but that's how it is.
 

Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
Edit: You guys who think that there is some way to get the cops to follow the law or uphold the constitution are delusional.
EDIT: I beg your pardon! ...I, for one, harbor no delusions whatsoever regarding cops and my protections under the law, and my own self-generated protections. 50+ years experience with police departments and the legal system... nuff said!
 

Jared

Cannabis Enthusiast
EDIT: I beg your pardon! ...I, for one, harbor no delusions whatsoever regarding cops and my protections under the law, and my own self-generated protections. 50+ years experience with police departments and the legal system... nuff said!
Then why are you acting like some magic ruling could stop them from breaking the law and make them follow the constitution? Nothing will ever do that but the more ways we have to prove our innocence the better.

And if that isn't what you thought, why bring up the fact that this won't prevent them from breaking the law in the first place?
 
Jared,

Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
Then why are you acting like some magic ruling could stop them from breaking the law and make them follow the constitution? Nothing will ever do that but the more ways we have to prove our innocence the better.

And if that isn't what you thought, why bring up the fact that this won't prevent them from breaking the law in the first place?
Please re-read my posts. You've got their meaning bass ackwards. I will not respond to this thread further. Who needs the argument or aggravation? Good day.
 

Frederick McGuire

Aggressively Loungey
(Aussie here - not 100% familiar with US laws but I've watched Law & Order :lol:)
Time isn't a factor. A K9 officer could pull you over with a K9 in the back of his car and he still couldn't have it sniff your car without probable cause anymore.
From the article linked in the OP:
"While officers may use a dog to sniff around a car during the course of a routine traffic stop, they cannot extend the length of the stop in order to carry it out."
So that doesn't sound right to me?

I wonder if this means the pending charges I have against me in Tennessee will be dropped now? I was pulled over and made to wait roughly 30 minutes for a drug dog to come without even so much as reasonable suspicion.
Before I read the article I was gonna say that generally Legislation isn't retro-active, but since this isn't a new law, just an establishment of precedent, I'd guess you could at the very least now use it as a defense...?

It's your responsibility not the cops to prove that you are innocent. It is his job to extract as much money as he can from you and nothing more. No that's not how it's supposed to be but that's how it is.
It's so sad that this is the case...
Cops are meant to be the protectors of society... Not the fucking Tax-Man...
 

SSVUN~YAH

You Must Unlearn, What You Have Learned...
Sucks you got busted, if your toking up in the car, your pushing your luck to begin with, but like others have said good luck fighting the man. Your going to need it, probable cause is as easy as the officer saying he smelled your cannabis, done deal. Even if you weren't toking up. Why can't you seem to understand that? We are all pro cannabis here and are on your side but we also understand how the paper pushers work too, don't get mad at us b/c you don't like what seems obvious, you broke a law and got caught, it happens bro. Shit happens. I wish you the best, hope it does get thrown out!
 

NickDlow

Log Hog
Thank you Rhode Island for decriminalizing under 1oz.

No worries here. IME honesty n respect is a sure to help with police. Tho I've never been pulled over with more than about 3 grams on me.

Every time I've told the truth and been let off. Possibly because the man took it for himself lol. A good 7 out of 10 cops in ri probably partake if I had to guess.

Ive been with a few of them lol.

Edit: definatly no need for this topic to become an argument. No police force or policemen are the same, there are corrupt ones nd honest ones. It's all a matter of luck
 

Ashish

Active Member
...probable cause is as easy as the officer saying he smelled your cannabis, done deal. Even if you weren't toking up. Why can't you seem to understand that? We are all pro cannabis here and are on your side but we also understand how the paper pushers work too, don't get mad at us b/c you don't like what seems obvious, you broke a law and got caught, it happens bro. Shit happens. I wish you the best, hope it does get thrown out!

Exactly. It seems as though @Jared doesn't want to discuss the practicalities of the OP, which leaves me wondering why he made the post to begin with.

It is [the policeman's] job to extract as much money as he can from you and nothing more. No that's not how it's supposed to be but that's how it is.

Wow. That is a ridiculously pessimistic and somewhat paranoid generalisation. It's hard to take you seriously if you truly believe this to be the case.
 
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NickDlow

Log Hog
Sucks you got busted, if your toking up in the car, your pushing your luck to begin with, but like others have said good luck fighting the man. Your going to need it, probable cause is as easy as the officer saying he smelled your cannabis, done deal. Even if you weren't toking up. Why can't you seem to understand that? We are all pro cannabis here and are on your side but we also understand how the paper pushers work too, don't get mad at us b/c you don't like what seems obvious, you broke a law and got caught, it happens bro. Shit happens. I wish you the best, hope it does get thrown out!

The article that Jared posted says that smell is no longer probable cause, according to the Supreme Court. So let's say the do get u n u go to court, if you recite the cases that they passed the ruling on you should be all set.

Or am I miss reading?
 

Ashish

Active Member
The article that Jared posted says that smell is no longer probable cause, according to the Supreme Court. So let's say the do get u n u go to court, if you recite the cases that they passed the ruling on you should be all set.

Or am I miss reading?

The point being made is that whilst smell may no longer provide probable cause, the police officer could easily fabricate any number of reasons that he/she felt probably cause was applicable.
 

Ashish

Active Member
Well then, what are the other circumstances for probable cause to search would be my next question.

  • Driver was behaving erratically during the traffic stop.
  • Driver was observed by the officer driving erratically.
  • Driver was unresponsive / slow to respond during questioning.
  • Driver appeared to be stoned out of his/her head.
  • Etcetera...
The Supreme Court decision Illinois v. Gates lowered the threshold of probable cause by ruling that a "substantial chance" or "fair probability" of criminal activity could establish probable cause. A better-than-even chance is not required.
 

NickDlow

Log Hog
  • Driver was behaving erratically during the traffic stop.
  • Driver was observed by the officer driving erratically.
  • Driver was unresponsive / slow to respond during questioning.
  • Driver appeared to be stoned out of his/her head.
  • Etcetera...
The Supreme Court decision Illinois v. Gates lowered the threshold of probable cause by ruling that a "substantial chance" or "fair probability" of criminal activity could establish probable cause. A better-than-even chance is not required.

Are those circumstances fact? To me that's seems like it would only warrant a sobriety test.

"Based on the decriminalization of one ounce or less of marijuana in 2011, the same court in Commonwealth v. Cruz held that the smell of burnt marijuana no longer suggests criminal activity to justify the search of a car. Although the smell of burnt marijuana can justify a field sobriety test, it does not justify the search of a car without cause. The judge concluded that the officers could not order the defendant out of the car based on smell alone. The odor of burnt marijuana "coupled with the driver's statement that he had been smoking earlier in the day" did not indicate cause to conduct a search."

Probable Cause to Seize Property

Probable cause to seize property exists when facts and circumstances known to the officer would lead a reasonable person to believe that the item is contraband, is stolen, or constitutes evidence of a crime.

When a search warrant is in play, police generally must search only for the items described in the warrant. However, any contraband or evidence of other crimes they come across may, for the most part, be seized as well.

Should evidence prove to have resulted from an illegal search, it becomes subject to the "exclusionary rule" and cannot be used against the defendant in court. After hearing arguments from the prosecuting and defense attorneys, the judge decides whether evidence should be excluded.

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/probable-cause.html


Edittt: Now that I think of it, this may only pertain to decriminalized states. I think they're saying that an illegal amount can't be determined by smell. Therefore in decriminalized state like MA and RI smell is not enough probable cause for a search. This is just my interpretation and I could very well be wrong.
 
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SSVUN~YAH

You Must Unlearn, What You Have Learned...
About that MA ruling, when did one states Supreme Court decision turn into a federal supreme court decision? Just b/c one jurisdiction allows it, doesn't give you permission to do it in another.
http://www.uscourts.gov/FederalCour...n/DifferencebetweenFederalAndStateCourts.aspx
By @Jared reasoning we all should be able to use it recreationally b/c it's legal in other US states. I wish this were the case too. I would be pissed being from Colorado and having to "change" when leaving the state. However ignorance of the law is no excuse, even when the laws should be changed. You still haven't told us any details besides you were stopped and they searched in TN, then arrested and charged you with a crime.
 

vapebuddy13

Your resident Super Hero
sorry if it was already posted, havent had a chance to really look to see if it was mentioned yet but for the k9 thing it also said somewhere besides not being able to hold you to wait it includes the amount of time the stop "should" take so it would affect cops who call and just stall in their car before going back and forth to the car they pull over
 
vapebuddy13,
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