Concentrates vs. Flower tolerance and effect

[invertedisdead]

I think the reason why we tend to find flowers are still strong is because the THC % when vaporizing herb is probably pretty close to dabbing extract.


Since we aren't combusting, THC % by weight does not account for the actual THC concentration in the vapor itself. The actual vapor from say, 20% THC-by-weight-flower, is probably 50%+ THC, since the majority of plant matter is not being vaporized.

 

[Bandoo]

Honestly I would have to check the type of method in making the concentrates I've been getting and they may be different for each since they came from various dispensaries. the frequency was once or twice daily for a couple of months using either a hypnos zero or source slim both with ceramic atomizers. Usually 3 or 4 hits of 6-8 seconds on medium or medium high setting. Occasionally I would use a Vapman with concentrate screen.

Of the two pens slim and zero which did you like better?

 

[VapeKnight]

I would say that the source slim 4 is more powerful, has many more accessories and features , less draw resistance, and built in storage. However, for how I use them I actually prefer the hypnos. It is so small and stealth that makes it perfect for my own wants and needs. If I had to recommend one over the other I would tell you the source simply because of its feature list.

 

[Bandoo]

I would say that the source slim 4 is more powerful, has many more accessories and features , less draw resistance, and built in storage. However, for how I use them I actually prefer the hypnos. It is so small and stealth that makes it perfect for my own wants and needs. If I had to recommend one over the other I would tell you the source simply because of its feature list.

Is the only reason you prefer the hypnos is the size? Anything else? Thanks.

 

[VapeKnight]

The coils in the source get very hot and I prefer a cooler feeling temp . The ceramic option on the source also has a glass plate covering the atomizer which seems like a good idea yet it requires longer heat time and an higher temp setting. Now this part is nit picking but I hate the source case. It requires you to unscrew the unit into two pieces in order for it to fit. A simple rearrangement of the cut out shapes would have allowed it to fit while still assembled. I think I like everything about the source better on paper ( and maybe in function ) , yet I am more likely to grab the hypnos.

 

[Bandoo]

The coils in the source get very hot and I prefer a cooler feeling temp . The ceramic option on the source also has a glass plate covering the atomizer which seems like a good idea yet it requires longer heat time and an higher temp setting. Now this part is nit picking but I hate the source case. It requires you to unscrew the unit into two pieces in order for it to fit. A simple rearrangement of the cut out shapes would have allowed it to fit while still assembled. I think I like everything about the source better on paper ( and maybe in function ) , yet I am more likely to grab the hypnos.

It got hot with the coil bucket right? Do the coilless buckets run cooler?

 

[VapeKnight]

Yes, definitely cooler with the ceramic on the source. However, vapor production was noticeably lower as well and I was usually compensating by using a higher temp setting which offset the difference. The hypnos seems to perform better with its ceramic. I've been curious to try the hypnos with a coil atomizer if its an option. I can't remember...

 

[arthritisbites]

I’m about to start on the concentrate path and was wondering if anyone really had a dramatic tolerance increase - I see lots of people talking about tolerance generally, but I haven’t really seen anyone say, for example “my intake needs to double every six months to keep up with my tolerance” or whatever. At least no more than I’ve seen people discussing the same with flower.

Anything that you use a lot of on a regular basis, your body is going to adjust to it. It’s just how our bodies work. But I would like to know what a worst-case scenario could possibly be. Frankly, I don’t really care if my tolerance goes up, as long as I can afford to keep medicating it’s fine. But I was curious about other people’s experiences...

 

[psychonaut]

But I would like to know what a worst-case scenario could possibly be.

I think for most concentrate users it goes up in general but it's not a huge increase IME. I still vape flowers and weigh my flower sessions, I feel the effects as I would expect.

When I was vaping flowers only I would use maybe 1gr a day, now it's more like 1.5gr, the time frame between this is at least 2 1/2 years. It was a gradual creep for me but I am getting older and still need to do physical work which pains the body at times so stronger doses are needed.

I guess worst case scenario, your a recreational user with a lot of money to spend and you dab yourself into cloud9 every hour and distillate is no longer effective. It can get expensive, it's just easier to do because your lungs can tolerate the oil in greater quantities than flower.

 

[invertedisdead]

I’m about to start on the concentrate path and was wondering if anyone really had a dramatic tolerance increase - I see lots of people talking about tolerance generally, but I haven’t really seen anyone say, for example “my intake needs to double every six months to keep up with my tolerance” or whatever. At least no more than I’ve seen people discussing the same with flower.

Anything that you use a lot of on a regular basis, your body is going to adjust to it. It’s just how our bodies work. But I would like to know what a worst-case scenario could possibly be. Frankly, I don’t really care if my tolerance goes up, as long as I can afford to keep medicating it’s fine. But I was curious about other people’s experiences...

A heavy user can go through a gram a day or more of concentrate.

 

[VapeKnight]

my worst case was noticeable tolerance increase followed by chest pains, ER visit, and three weeks of withdrawal symptoms... now I'm back to mostly flower with occasional concentrate use every couple of weeks.

 

[biohacker]

@arthritisbites take this for what it's worth, my own experience only but it doesn't seem to reflect those of many others. Concentrates work for me, flowers do not. I get insane side effects from flowers, and worse withdrawal symptoms. With concentrates it's simply not like that for me.... my tolerance doesn't go up like it does with flowers, and if i'm not feeling the magic I simply take a short break and am floored the next dab up at bat! I was a chronic 2g-2.5g/day flower user, and now i'm down to only less than .25g concentrate. To be fair I have adjusted my usage down, but even apples to apples i'd still be at less than .5g/day if I was hitting it from morning until night like I used to do.

There are some funky worse case scenarios on reddit/leaves so YMMV! Best to experiment on yourself but I think you already have the idea to heart. Moderation is the key!

 

[shredder]

@arthritisbites take this for what it's worth, my own experience only but it doesn't seem to reflect those of many others. Concentrates work for me, flowers do not. I get insane side effects from flowers, and worse withdrawal symptoms. With concentrates it's simply not like that for me.... my tolerance doesn't go up like it does with flowers, and if i'm not feeling the magic I simply take a short break and am floored the next dab up at bat! I was a chronic 2g-2.5g/day flower user, and now i'm down to only less than .25g concentrate. To be fair I have adjusted my usage down, but even apples to apples i'd still be at less than .5g/day if I was hitting it from morning until night like I used to do.

There are some funky worse case scenarios on reddit/leaves so YMMV! Best to experiment on yourself but I think you already have the idea to heart. Moderation is the key!

I agree. Usage does not have to go up, micro dosing works just like with herb, you just use less. You use less because it takes less to get the same result, and because it lasts longer. If you want to micro dose it's easy, if you want to dab yourself silly, well that's easy too. It's all up to you.....

 

[biohacker]

I agree. Usage does not have to go up, micro dosing works just like with herb, you just use less. You use less because it takes less to get the same result, and because it lasts longer. If you want to micro dose it's easy, if you want to dab yourself silly, well that's easy too. It's all up to you.....

Precisely! Everyone was always like DOOOOOD, what about your tolerance?? You're not even gunna feel flowers man!? Well, all you have to do is micro dab! My dabs are rarely over .025g these days.... i'd rather do a .025 and wait 10-20 mins and then do a repeat, instead of .05 right off that bat. But it's been a bit of an evolution.... started all giddy and plowing through material when it's all novel, but now have dialed down and fine tuned, and overall i'm consuming and spending LESS than with flowers, and my tolerance is LOWER, and that has been the GOAL! SCORE!

Like you said, IT'S ALL UP TO YOU!

 

[arthritisbites]

It can get expensive, it's just easier to do because your lungs can tolerate the oil in greater quantities than flower.

Wait, it’s easier on the lungs? I thought concentrates would be harsher because they were… I don’t know, stronger? Rougher, more intense?

 

[psychonaut]

Wait, it’s easier on the lungs? I thought concentrates would be harsher because they were… I don’t know, stronger? Rougher, more intense?

Not in my experience, perhaps for someone dabbing off red hot torched bangers, that'll make your chest feel like an elephant is stepping on it. Lower temp dabs more in the cannabinoid vaporization temperatures are nearly smooth like breathing air.

 

[arthritisbites]

@arthritisbites take this for what it's worth, my own experience only but it doesn't seem to reflect those of many others. Concentrates work for me, flowers do not. I get insane side effects from flowers, and worse withdrawal symptoms. With concentrates it's simply not like that for me.... my tolerance doesn't go up like it does with flowers, and if i'm not feeling the magic I simply take a short break and am floored the next dab up at bat! I was a chronic 2g-2.5g/day flower user, and now i'm down to only less than .25g concentrate. To be fair I have adjusted my usage down, but even apples to apples i'd still be at less than .5g/day if I was hitting it from morning until night like I used to do.

How funny, that is precisely where I am at with my flower usage, around 2g-2.5g/day. I’m also mixing in about .75g of kief/day. Hence why I was interested in getting into stronger concentrates, because this is just taking too damn long to ingest every day! I need some kind of faster ingestion system, so I’m trying to figure out the whole dabbing thing and what not.

But dabbing is so not user-friendly! First, this whole thing with the torch is a nonstarter to begin with. There is no way I’m messing around with that while trying to get high! I wouldn’t want to mess around with that when I was stone cold sober! I bought a kandypen prism plus but then I see all the stuff of people talking about the bad construction components and leaking and how your breathing in toxic chemicals, so now I’m scared to try it.

On someone else’s suggestion I read the entire w9 triton thread, but I’m still not exactly sure what anyone is talking about on that thread. And now I don’t want to open the kandypen package because if I need to return it, I think I have to keep it sealed.

In short, if anyone could give me some advice, it is sorely needed. This is so frustratingly difficult.

 

[looney2nz]

Wait, it’s easier on the lungs? I thought concentrates would be harsher because they were… I don’t know, stronger? Rougher, more intense?

Not using a dab rig or torch, but... some concentrates can be a bit harsh, you can run it through a nice glass bubbler to cool and moisturize it somewhat, which should make it more tolerable, but that will increase the speed of the vapor condensing. I use hot water in my glass for that reason. But you're starting off as vapor, so you're ahead of the game as far as your throat and lungs are concerned. It's still hot & dry, so humidifying it only makes sense, especially if your throat is an important instrument for you (singers, speakers).

As for using concentrates in large amounts... my next pan of brownies will have 18-20G of concentrate in the mix. That will make 64 doses for me. I vape on top of that, have no idea how much anymore, I could figure it out, but I'm too medicated right now But I've vaped all kinds of concentrate on my Herbalaire Elite (HO), which has largely been benched since using eVic BoxMods with @divinetribe atomizers (I've got a number of 'em!), including the tanks that @Vape Donkey 650 crafted for me. Now, I'm a chronic pain patient (8 jacked up discs in my spine from being rear-ended), who has Multiple Myeloma (bone/blood cancer), so my levels will be higher than most folks.

I also take regular T (Tolerance)-Breaks, especially if I'm sick. At minimum, I shoot for 3-4 days, and I've done as much as 5 weeks (that lovely flu this past winter). No ill effects during the T-Break, tolerance had reset noticeably with each break, don't go gonzo and doing levels like you did before your break!!! I forget what state you're in, hopefully with the last shift to Prop64 stuff in CA, you'll have a much better idea of what you're buying concentrate-wise.

 

[invertedisdead]

How funny, that is precisely where I am at with my flower usage, around 2g-2.5g/day. I’m also mixing in about .75g of kief/day. Hence why I was interested in getting into stronger concentrates, because this is just taking too damn long to ingest every day! I need some kind of faster ingestion system, so I’m trying to figure out the whole dabbing thing and what not.

But dabbing is so not user-friendly! First, this whole thing with the torch is a nonstarter to begin with. There is no way I’m messing around with that while trying to get high! I wouldn’t want to mess around with that when I was stone cold sober! I bought a kandypen prism plus but then I see all the stuff of people talking about the bad construction components and leaking and how your breathing in toxic chemicals, so now I’m scared to try it.

I would strongly suggest an e-nail system for easiest administration of concentrates. I think you'll see is pretty user friendly when not torching.

 

[arthritisbites]

Not using a dab rig or torch, but... some concentrates can be a bit harsh, you can run it through a nice glass bubbler to cool and moisturize it somewhat, which should make it more tolerable, but that will increase the speed of the vapor condensing. I use hot water in my glass for that reason. But you're starting off as vapor, so you're ahead of the game as far as your throat and lungs are concerned. It's still hot & dry, so humidifying it only makes sense, especially if your throat is an important instrument for you (singers, speakers).

As for using concentrates in large amounts... my next pan of brownies will have 18-20G of concentrate in the mix. That will make 64 doses for me. I vape on top of that, have no idea how much anymore, I could figure it out, but I'm too medicated right now But I've vaped all kinds of concentrate on my Herbalaire Elite (HO), which has largely been benched since using eVic BoxMods with @divinetribe atomizers (I've got a number of 'em!), including the tanks that @Vape Donkey 650 crafted for me. Now, I'm a chronic pain patient (8 jacked up discs in my spine from being rear-ended), who has Multiple Myeloma (bone/blood cancer), so my levels will be higher than most folks.

I also take regular T (Tolerance)-Breaks, especially if I'm sick. At minimum, I shoot for 3-4 days, and I've done as much as 5 weeks (that lovely flu this past winter). No ill effects during the T-Break, tolerance had reset noticeably with each break, don't go gonzo and doing levels like you did before your break!!! I forget what state you're in, hopefully with the last shift to Prop64 stuff in CA, you'll have a much better idea of what you're buying concentrate-wise.

Ah yes, a fellow member of the Supreme Organization of Fucked Up Backs. I have juvenile onset arthritis that was misdiagnosed, so my spine is destroyed. I actually just took delivery of my new mobility scooter this morning, I’m so excited to be able to get out of the house again! It’s been months!

Can I pick your brain a little? That whole middle section of you talking about box mods, etc.-I didn’t really understand some of that. Would you be able to tell me what things to buy to make a complete setup? And would you recommend the same set up for at home versus out of the house? Or something different? My biggest concerns are health and functionality.
Thank you so much in advance!!!

I would strongly suggest an e-nail system for easiest administration of concentrates. I think you'll see is pretty user friendly when not torching.

Is there one you like in particular?

 

[invertedisdead]

Is there one you like in particular?

I have a Dnail SiC Halo and 20mm + 25mm quartz bangers. I like them all, the e-nail experience is much simpler and less fiddly than torching.

If I was gonna start over today I'd probably go for an Auber RDK 200 or 300 controller and either a 25mm banger with a 25mm coil, or a SiC Halo setup with a flat coil. The Halo is very straightforward to use, durable, and easy to clean between dabs, though it costs a bit more than a quartz setup. The quartz setup is extremely clean and I find the all glass air path appealing. They both taste great and function great in my opinion.

 

[shredder]

I have a Dnail SiC Halo and 20mm + 25mm quartz bangers. I like them all, the e-nail experience is much simpler and less fiddly than torching.

If I was gonna start over today I'd probably go for an Auber RDK 200 or 300 controller and either a 25mm banger with a 25mm coil, or a SiC Halo setup with a flat coil. The Halo is very straightforward to use, durable, and easy to clean between dabs, though it costs a bit more than a quartz setup. The quartz setup is extremely clean and I find the all glass air path appealing. They both taste great and function great in my opinion.

I agree, my very first nail was a d nail sic halo. And I've been very happy with it. You actually can taste the little things you miss on a hot nail. I think it's healthier as well. My controler is from thick ass glass and cost around $158. Not sure what they are now. And the d nail with the sic dish was about $300. And I have a variety of glass from cheap china glass to mid range made in the states. It's expensive, but it could save you the buying and disregarding of cheaper options.

And I went through a bunch of pen vapes. Love them for convenience, but to me they're disappointing. But they are improving, so maybe some day.

 

[arthritisbites]

And I went through a bunch of pen vapes. Love them for convenience, but to me they're disappointing. But they are improving, so maybe some day.

Any in particular you have loved or you have hated?

 

[shredder]

Any in particular you have loved or you have hated?

I use a yocan evolve, it's a fairly cheap vape, and tastes ok with a ceramic atomizer. It's not something I use a lot though. The others are all kinda forgettable, leaving a trail of broken mouthpieces, coils that dont work, and tasted like crap when they did, and dead batteries. I havn't loved any pen vapes.

 

[looney2nz]

I have a Dnail SiC Halo and 20mm + 25mm quartz bangers. I like them all, the e-nail experience is much simpler and less fiddly than torching.

If I was gonna start over today I'd probably go for an Auber RDK 200 or 300 controller and either a 25mm banger with a 25mm coil, or a SiC Halo setup with a flat coil. The Halo is very straightforward to use, durable, and easy to clean between dabs, though it costs a bit more than a quartz setup. The quartz setup is extremely clean and I find the all glass air path appealing. They both taste great and function great in my opinion.

I will defer to my friend from Colliefornia I have no experience with nails.

As for 'pens', almost all the traditional pens that use the 'standard' cartridges are hot, harsh and horrible IMO.

@arthritisbites , I started off with an eVic VTwo Mini MOD (basically controller with battery and electronics in a package about the size of a giant pack of gum. It holds 1 18650 battery (standard for lithium ion batteries, varying charge densities), which you can charge in the unit with a usb cable, or charge outside the unit in a real battery charger.
There is a broad selection of atomizers out there to select from, but my experience is with the stuff from @divinetribe , I use his 10mm ceramic donut v3 atomizer (the v3.5 should be out any day, and replaces screws to secure the the base with some big silicone o-rings, nice!).
I also have the Quartz Quest atomizer, which is newer and pretty damn cool, but not the place to start I think. Both the v3, v3.5 and QQ are 'single session' vapes, paint the donut with concentrate, and you can get a number of good pulls, before you apply more. So not exactly discrete for outside the house, but eminently portable and functional for inside the house.
I have a variety of tanks from @Vape Donkey 650 (he builds some amazing tanks using 7mm Divine Tribe ceramic donuts, it's incredibly tight intricate work!), which I'm in the process of upgrading.
I've used the combo of the VTwin and the Vape Donkey tank and taken that with me to gatherings, then excused myself to go outside and vape a bit. I doubt anyone would look twice at it, it looks like so many other e-cigarette rigs with tanks. I always keep the unit with me, NEVER EVER leave one in a hot car.
Also, pay attention to the plastic sleeve on each battery, any rips or tears, DO NOT USE THAT BATTERY, you can order 're-sleeving' tubing online, re-sleeve it, use a hair dryer to shrink the new sleeve tight.
The integrity of the battery is critical, if it's been dented or distorted in any way, dispose of it with hazardous waste according to their protocols so no fires are started (these batteries pack a wallop!).
I recently bought an eLeaf Invoke 220W MOD that holds 2 18650 batteries for both the Quartz Quest and for my newer tank units, 'cause they are both a bit battery hungry (I ain't complainin', they perform great).
The Invoke is slightly larger than the VTwo, but both fit in my palm and are mostly obscured if I wrap my fingers around them, the only thing showing being the atomizer or tank.
I vape a lot of CO2 oils, Live Resin, Live Rosin and some sauces, along with the occasional shatter, butter, etc. For flower, I pull out my trusty Herbalaire Elite (H.O.) desktop unit with pump and glass beaker bong.