Concentrates for Noobs - Q&A

[negan]

No vac purge, still saving to get one. I did this at around 180 in an oil bath (veg oil is what I had) . I have a crockpot setup with a PID controller for sous vide cooking that I have been using for this as well. It does a great job holding temp. I purged at 180 degrees for around 8 hours. I flipped it twice I think. I also pulled the slickpad back and forth over the edge of a table (90 degree edge) a couple of times to agitate the bubbles out. Like you would do to straighten a dollar bill. I think that contributed to the leathery appearance. I also do this with finished wax to release it from the slickpad (why it looks a little wavy). Those little bumps are all popped bubbles, there are a few small bubbles inside. After a few hours of heat purge I flatten it using advice from here. Place the second pad on top and press flat with fingers, or roll with a rolling pin/bottle/etc. Then into the freezer so you can peal the top pad off. Peal top pad, then back on the heat. After most of the bubbles are gone I flip the paddy. Put pad on top, then flip over and place back on heat to move oil from old bottom pad (now top) to new bottom pad. After a few minutes it is into the freezer for a few minutes so you can remove the top pad (make sure you keep the new bottom pad on the bottom). I tend to roll it a few times and also knead with my fingers (with top pad on) a few times throughout the purging to help remove bubbles. This also means that it is in the freezer a few times throughout the purge (in order to remove top pad).

Forgot to mention that I used the bike workstand holder/hair dryer setup again and love it. Super easy. I just keep the temp set to low or med and point it right at the pyrex. Evaps ~6oz of EC in around an hour. Then scrap, freeze and onto slickpad for heat purge.

 

[mayan]

This is VERY interesting information, negan. Thanks!! Very appreciated. So, here's what I'm hearing...just want to confirm. Take alcohol wash...evap on slick pad and low heat. Once the evaporation is done...(a process apparently taking several hours of low heat)...apply top slick pad. Put in freezer. Flip the pads. Collect oil blots. Knead. Roll. Work. Perhaps keep heating and freezing cycle.

A couple of questions...when you say that you flip the oil slick pad during the initial heat/evap period, do you mean that you turn the oil side face down into the pyrex? Also, once the initial heating is done, what is the purpose of the continued re-heating and freezing? The texture and consistency of the material? When you have it in oven, at what temperature?

Again - thanks! I would also be happy to be directed to any good articles/FAQs, etc. that lay out this "end game" for vapable extract. The Skunk Pharm tek is great but it doesn't go into the whole purge situation as it seems like it's more directed towards full-extract oil, etc. So please - feel free to point me in the direction of good threads, etc. I've been reading about this until my eyes bled but its still hard putting together all of the various pieces of information that I pick up from all over the map.

 

[negan]

Sorry it is hard to explain in words. You are close though.

Take alcohol wash...evap on slick pad and low heat.

I don't recommend putting ethanol wash onto slickpad (you do this after initial evap). One of the main reasons (for me) for not doing the initial evap in the oil bath is so I can easily do this step outdoors with just the hair dryer (or just a fan/air). I highly recommend being safer and doing the initial evap step outdoors. Once most of the solvent is gone then I bring inside (well the shed) and heat purge using the crockpot.

when you say that you flip the oil slick pad during the initial heat/evap period, do you mean that you turn the oil side face down into the pyrex?

Flipping the oil slick is to flip the wax paddy for final purge. You just place the 2nd pad onto the pad with the wax on it (errl sandwich), then flip it so the top pad is now the bottom (in contact with the pyrex).

The only reason I place the other pad on top is to either flatten the wax into a paddy (shortly after placing on slickpad) or flip the paddy over (near the end, for a final purge).

Also, once the initial heating is done, what is the purpose of the continued re-heating and freezing?

There is no "initial heating" (minus maybe a little from hair dryer). The goal is to get it to stop smelling like your solvent of choice and more importantly purge until there are little or no bubbles popping up.
With the freezer, only reason it is going in there is to make it easier to remove one of the pads from the errl sandwich (when you flip or flatten). Otherwise the oil will stick to both pads when you try to peel one off. Sometimes it still sticks to the other pad after the freezer, but it is much easier to deal with.

When you have it in oven, at what temperature?

I don't place in the oven, just my ghetto bain marie setup (crockpot oil bath). Bath temp was around 180 F most of the time. I take the pyrex that had the wash it in and place on top of jar lids in my crockpot so the oil just hits the bottom of the pyrex.

So please - feel free to point me in the direction of good threads, etc. I've been reading about this until my eyes bled but its still hard putting together all of the various pieces of information that I pick up from all over the map.

I don't remember the topics per say, but I believe everything I read regarding purging tek/tips came from this forum. Using the hair dryer was here too. I believe the qwiso thread started by @herbivore21 is where a lot of the tips came from. I started with QWISO, so most of the stuff I read was related to it. Just click back through the concentrates forums and read some of the topics. Tips are hidden everywhere, including this thread and the share my dab stash thread.

 

[mayan]

Abundant thanks, negan. I appreciate the clarifications.

 

[walrus]

Did my first QWET run yesterday. Went pretty well. I think I purge a bit too far for shatter, it is kind of in between shatter and crumble/honeycomb. I followed the Skunk farm instructions except for the bath temp. Anyone know if that is a misprint? They say 250 degrees for QWET but only 140 for iso even though iso's boiling point is a little higher than ethanol.

Skunkpharm's 250 degree recommendation is meant to decarboxylate oil that is going to be taken orally. Oil for dabbing should be purged at much lower temps.

No vac purge, still saving to get one. I did this at around 180 in an oil bath (veg oil is what I had) . I have a crockpot setup with a PID controller for sous vide cooking that I have been using for this as well. It does a great job holding temp. I purged at 180 degrees for around 8 hours. I flipped it twice I think. I also pulled the slickpad back and forth over the edge of a table (90 degree edge) a couple of times to agitate the bubbles out. Like you would do to straighten a dollar bill. I think that contributed to the leathery appearance. I also do this with finished wax to release it from the slickpad (why it looks a little wavy). Those little bumps are all popped bubbles, there are a few small bubbles inside. After a few hours of heat purge I flatten it using advice from here. Place the second pad on top and press flat with fingers, or roll with a rolling pin/bottle/etc. Then into the freezer so you can peal the top pad off. Peal top pad, then back on the heat. After most of the bubbles are gone I flip the paddy. Put pad on top, then flip over and place back on heat to move oil from old bottom pad (now top) to new bottom pad. After a few minutes it is into the freezer for a few minutes so you can remove the top pad (make sure you keep the new bottom pad on the bottom). I tend to roll it a few times and also knead with my fingers (with top pad on) a few times throughout the purging to help remove bubbles. This also means that it is in the freezer a few times throughout the purge (in order to remove top pad).

Forgot to mention that I used the bike workstand holder/hair dryer setup again and love it. Super easy. I just keep the temp set to low or med and point it right at the pyrex. Evaps ~6oz of EC in around an hour. Then scrap, freeze and onto slickpad for heat purge.

If you're trying for a shatter consistancy, I'd recommend you lower your temps a bit. For nonvac ethanol purges I try to keep my product around 120 or so and normally get a very clear, stable shatter.

 

[negan]

Skunkpharm's 250 degree recommendation is meant to decarboxylate oil that is going to be taken orally. Oil for dabbing should be purged at much lower temps.

If you're trying for a shatter consistancy, I'd recommend you lower your temps a bit. For nonvac ethanol purges I try to keep my product around 120 or so and normally get a very clear, stable shatter.

Makes sense. Yeah every other time I have purged (with iso) I did 115 for around the same amount of time. I got way more bubbles with 180 though than I got with 115. Way more. Makes me think that my previous attempts were under purged. I think I going to try 160 next time. Although 180 seemed great, but I ran out to get some food for dinner and came back an hour later and it had started to honeycomb. Still think I'll shoot for 160. I liked the lower temps because I only needed to use water in the crockpot, anything over 150 and it wouldn't hold temp without the lid on. With oil it has no issues holding temp up to its 199 limit.

 

[negan]

Whoops double post.

As to not waste the post, the 115 temp I made before was shatter, but it wasn't too stable (though I guess that depends on strain as well). This crumble is pretty stable so far. It kind of sucks to deal with though as it is like the oil first out of the freezer, it can snap off with some force. Already lost one piece to the garage floor. .

Smoked some today and the taste is spot on with the way the bud smelled before running. Probably the best tasting stuff I've made so far.

 

[mayan]

How does one recognize that the purge is done? I evapped my test run at about 160 -180 on an oil slick pad and it seemed to take an hour or so for the ETOH to "evaporate" leaving a fairly hard residue that's incredibly tacky but not runny. It sounds like it was way underpurged however. This is all very interesting. Curioser and curiouser. Thanks!

 

[negan]

I read on here somewhere to purge until the bubbles are mostly gone and you can touch the oil with a finger and it doesn't stick (ie hardened surface). As with the other stuff I posted this is just my experience and I'm pretty new, YMMV or you could easily find a better way. Love the way this forum shares ideas/tek!

 

[amberevil]

Bubbles can be solvents escaping or terps escaping.

Ask someone who has figured out how to tell the difference, because I can't. I figure its just something that comes with time.

 

[CrazyDiamond]

off topic..holy cr*p I got some catching up to do

 

[spoutti]

Nice stuff @negan ! One thing im not sure I understood correctly; are you getting shatter at room temp? I just did a few runs got my most oily results.. Maybe it was my starting materials, my final purge or something else. But I did approximately the same purge tech that gave me a close to shatter texture last time. I did around 45 min avg of 180F time. Staring at the puddle popping and stirring bubbles with a needle over the purging period. I stopped when I felt the bubbles popping were decarbing co2 bubbles.

Graywolf said something about regular size bubbles being the co2 bubbles. But I will just get a vac and vac chamber and purge the ethanol at low temp keeping my thca and terps intact to get my tastiest shatter ever on my next runs. My experience is limited to tasty but rough ethanol ladden concentrates, and more recently partially decarbed smooth winterized oils. I prefer the smoothest vapors possible. I feel the vac process will give me the better of smooth, tasty and texture

 

[mvapes]

Hey guys. I don't recommend evaping on silicone ever. Glass, ptfe, or at worst parchment. Silicone is porous and will trap solvents underneath your load.

Bubbles, these are the keys to good oil. If it was easy to tell which are solvent, air, or terps everyone would be making dank oil.

It takes practice. I think one of the biggest issues people have, including myself is variations from traditional extraction methods and going with what they're told from those who have experience running.

To be quite honest when I read this thread I cringe sometimes as some of you make this process way more complicated than it is. Pack, extract, and purge. That's it!

All the other shit isn't necessary unless you want to spend money. You want to make good clean oil? Be patient and let the sum bitch purge.

This is critical og. No winterizing, no etho, just plain old tane.

9 hours in the vac at 106°.

 

[negan]

Nice stuff @negan ! One thing im not sure I understood correctly; are you getting shatter at room temp?

You mean after purge does the errl stay in a stable shatter form? My attempts at 115 wouldn't be stable at room temp. Like you said it would form back to globs. This qwet (180 F) seems more stable but still not completely stable. I broke it up at put it in a container. The pieces are still intact, but they are somewhat stuck together. Not as snappy as yesterday (or the day before) which is good. Body temp (touching with finger) makes it get greasy, so I can't really pick it up without a tool. I also tried to get the "in front of the light shot" but it would fold over when hold it up with a tool. And my damn camera's macro mode was being flaky.

Graywolf said something about regular size bubbles being the co2 bubbles.

Most of my bubbles were pin head size. I have a few bigger ones in the actual oil still. First I have heard about bubble size. Awesome! I'll have to pay more attention towards the end of the purge There was a noticeable different in smell going from 115 to 180 (ie smelled more like the actual herb), so I'm sure some terps were harmed in the making of this errl, but the end result still tastes like the original bud, so I didn't kill them all. Pretty good medication as well. Going to try 160ish F next time though.

To be quite honest when I read this thread I cringe sometimes as some of you make this process way more complicated than it is. Pack, extract, and purge. That's it!

I heard ya. My process is pretty dead simple. I'm barely touching it throughout the 10+ hours from wash to evap to purge. The hard part is explaining the process. I just Pack, extract, and purge as well, but trying explaining how you pack, or your filter tek on extract or how your vac process. That is where it seems complicated. A video would be much easier, once I feel like I'm not a noob I might make some. Like you said with practice this stuff is super simple.

 

[mvapes]

Absolutely! Once the product is done it stays stable until it's gone. One of my guages of judgment as to when to pull from the oven is based on tackieness.

I usually remove it once it has a smooth glass feel and there's no action anymore.

 

[mayan]

Video(s) or "end game" teks would be great. It seems as if most of the information out there deals with different extraction methods. There is very little out there (that I have found so far) dealing with what you do (and how long you do it) after the extract has occurred. Not saying it ain't there - just difficult to find the motherload of info - particularly for non-vacuum chamber folk. I realize that it isn't rocket-science but it seems as if the different methods can lead to radically different consistencies and textures, if one is trying to do it without additional technology such as vacuum purging equipment. Thanks - what I am picking up here is invaluable.

 

[DieHard]

For me, running BHO is like welding: the more you do it, the better your technique. My runs look better and better. But I still can't help myself when my connect has some dank shatter for sale.
There is so much BAD info out there. It is hard to separate good from bad. I pretty much always trust the "Gospel According to @mvapes".

 

[negan]

Yes it seems that errl making is a lot like candy making. You have different "crack" stages like candy (sugar). Would be funny to see an errl thermometer like a candy one. Of course with a vac setup you have even more variables.

 

[mvapes]

Video(s) or "end game" teks would be great. It seems as if most of the information out there deals with different extraction methods. There is very little out there (that I have found so far) dealing with what you do (and how long you do it) after the extract has occurred. Not saying it ain't there - just difficult to find the motherload of info - particularly for non-vacuum chamber folk. I realize that it isn't rocket-science but it seems as if the different methods can lead to radically different consistencies and textures, if one is trying to do it without additional technology such as vacuum purging equipment. Thanks - what I am picking up here is invaluable.

There are numerous variables that play into the process after extraction. Typically the name of the game is patience. Waiting for the product to purge is like a fucking tease.

I've seen strains that purged quickly, less than 5 hours. I have also seen strains that took days. I guess what I'm saying is is there really is no science to it. It is really more of an art.

As far as tek, you'll learn quickly that were all different. Everyone eventually creates their own process.

I also tend to see that people get confused when it comes to the vacuum process. I can put it in simple terms, it basically turbocharges the process of the looooong term warm purge.

So when I hear someone say that they had something purge in a warm oven overnight and it's a strain I've run and it took 18 hours under vac...

I fucking cringe!

 

[mayan]

Thanks, mvape...your guidance echoes other wisdom I have come across and is very helpful. I have been practicing on less "valuable" material because I am learning on my own and the "whoops" factor is king. Still, it's a path I am freakin' happy to trod. Still -in all- when one is seeking to learn an artisinal process, it's helpful to apprentice or be mentored. In this area - this and similar forums (and You Tube) come about as close to the mentoring process as prohibition has allowed me...hopefully, that's changing. I much prefer hands on experience and example but text will have to do! The rankness of my newbiness is galling but I'm happy to be accreting knowledge and practice as I go along. Given that I'm not doing one of the tanes nor using a vacuum purge, I'm gonna have to keep plugging away and uncovering little treasures of information. Helpful to know not to expect a purge to be done in an hour, necessarily, however.

 

[spoutti]

Tx @mvapes for sharing your experience. I value myself as a good sidekick, follower, perfecting an existing thing. But im not a good pionneer. I would have loved to have a veteran fcer showing me the way; telling me whats normal, watch this step particularily, if im on track or way off etc. But my concentrate adventure started alone and a bunch of imaginary problems. Now im eliminating many imaginary problems and a few real ones. A vac and vac chamber will eliminate my fear of killing the terps and totally decarbing my concentrate while purging it.

I scraped my bottom chamber of my hercules previously loaded with my latest oily results. 2nd run qwet. It was a much harder consistence than its original form. I guess my oil has ethanol left in it and I purged what was in my herc while vaping it.

@negan My newb guess would be your batch purged at 115 still has lots of alcohol in it, while the batch purged at 180 over 8 hours is totally decarbed, without alcohol.

 

[negan]

@negan My newb guess would be your batch purged at 115 still has lots of alcohol in it, while the batch purged at 180 over 8 hours is totally decarbed, without alcohol.

Unfortunately I agree with the 115 batches. I did make EJ with most of it though so there was at least another short purge (at lower viscosity).

One thing I forgot about my QWET run is that 180 F was the temp I set the PID to and the probe was in the oil (not on the pyrex/pad surface). I only have a crappy infrared thermometer, but I believe it is decently accurate. I had the slickpad sitting on the pyrex, so some heat was lost there. The avg temp I read from the oil (using the infrared) was 168ish. So not as bad as I thought.
Sure is tasty. Finally got the correct downstem for my little roor (combustion convert) and a cheap quartz nail so I could take my first dabs from a makeshift rig. Love it. Can't wait until the the FC 710 gets here. That first hit was rough, way too hot . Much better now I have learned the proper wait time and lower temp dabs with the carb cap.

 

[Big Baby Jesus]

I've got several ounces of outdoor in the freezer. It's kind of old, so I don't feel like smoking it, and I think it would be better suited for shatter making. I've read a lot about different processes, and I was thinking about doing the following:

#1 grind cannabis finely. Pack into a glass tube. Cover end with 1 micron SS mesh. Use 1 can of SYN butane per oz. dried bud.

#2 collect BHO. Evaporate off most of butane, and mix with 99% ISO.

#3 once bubbles subside, put mixture in freezer on lowest setting for 48 hours. Pour mixture through a coffee filter.

#4 evaporate off ISO.

#5 vape away.

Anyone have any input for the outlined process? I don't have, or intend to buy a vacuum purge because from what I've read the alcohol binds more strongly with the cannabinoids and drives off the butane.

 

[mvapes]

I've got several ounces of outdoor in the freezer. It's kind of old, so I don't feel like smoking it, and I think it would be better suited for shatter making. I've read a lot about different processes, and I was thinking about doing the following:

#1 grind cannabis finely. Pack into a glass tube. Cover end with 1 micron SS mesh. Use 1 can of SYN butane per oz. dried bud.

#2 collect BHO. Evaporate off most of butane, and mix with 99% ISO.

#3 once bubbles subside, put mixture in freezer on lowest setting for 48 hours. Pour mixture through a coffee filter.

#4 evaporate off ISO.

#5 vape away.

Anyone have any input for the outlined process? I don't have, or intend to buy a vacuum purge because from what I've read the alcohol binds more strongly with the cannabinoids and drives off the butane.

Hey @Big Baby Jesus - first things first, I want to help. So I'm going to help address a few of your thoughts and then hopefully it will get you going in the right direction.

1. Old weed, most people have the illusion that the bho process will turn your stuff into gold. It's not true brother, you get out what you put in. If the weed is old than its probably decarboxylated and the oil you'll end up with will be dark, viscous and taste and smell like pickles.

Next, grinding. You never, never want to fine grind. There's a reason most grinders are 4 pieces. It's to catch what falls off. You see where I'm going with this? Your wasting the stuff needed to make the oil, you'll crush your yield. Secondly, your stripping the plant material allowing the solvent to pull more than just the medicine. You'll end up with a batch loaded with chlorophyll. I pick my nuggets apart and run them fresh and full. It gets expensive but it's part of making oil.

After this is the packing the tube part. As for the rest of your process your missing a lot! Forget the iso mixing. I wish everyone would stop adding more and more solvents to the mix.

Use heat and a shit load of time or get a vac. Using another chemical to help time the evap process in my opinion is silly.

If you want purging help with a vac feel free to pm me.

Guys, how many dispensaries do you think are using the iso process to evap? NONE! Get it right before you explore.

In my opinion, if your not going to get a vac and chamber you probably shouldn't make bho.

I would stick with plain iso runs or dry sift. There really are no short cuts.

I have a load in now that I threw in last night at 10 and she looks like she's gonna go for another 10 or 12 hours. I have it set at 108° currently. Sprayed 56 grams with 2 cans of capital.

I think I should get about 12 grams out of it.

 

[NickDlow]

Listen up, the man is dropping some knowledge!

That sounds like a badass run @mvapes be sure to share the final product!