Stick a piece of grade 2 TI into a lathe and try and make a nail. It's hard and brittle. Makes it difficult and time consuming to work with. You're paying for the labor and equipment to make the nail, not the titanium. They're also standing behind their product. If their nail makes you sick...you can find them.
Gear Concentrate accessory questions (Ti, SS, Nails, Dabbers)
- Thread starter Purpl3_Haz3
- Start date
Stick a piece of grade 2 TI into a lathe and try and make a nail. It's hard and brittle. Makes it difficult and time consuming to work with. You're paying for the labor and equipment to make the nail, not the titanium. They're also standing behind their product. If their nail makes you sick...you can find them.
Guess what? I found high-quality boro tubing online for $926.32 / metric ton. Let's see, even a pretty big bong usually weighs less than 5 lbs, lets just call it 5 lbs even.
metric ton is 2204.62262lbs
5/2204.62262= 0.0022679619
0.0022679619 X $926.32= $2.10
So assuming the glassblower is one greedy sob and marks up his price 10x above his costs, you should be able to get a glass piece made of high-quality boro for $21.00!!!!!!
BAM! LOGIC!
metric ton is 2204.62262lbs
5/2204.62262= 0.0022679619
0.0022679619 X $926.32= $2.10
So assuming the glassblower is one greedy sob and marks up his price 10x above his costs, you should be able to get a glass piece made of high-quality boro for $21.00!!!!!!
BAM! LOGIC!
Bouldorado
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying cheap nails are better, I just doubt that the sellers would have a reason to embellish their grade, given the low cost of real grade 2. As was mentioned, higher-end nails are more expensive for a few reasons, namely R&D and quality control. It's just like a cheap bong; it may use the same glass as something nicer, but neither the concept or design is very good.
One way to produce cheap nails is through existing machine shops. They already have the equipment, so those costs aren't reflected in the nail price. I'm guessing most nails are made with CNC machines, which aren't very labor intensive. Even designing a basic nail doesn't take very long with a CAD program. If the shop owner did everything himself he wouldn't have labor costs; just pop titanium in the CNC machine, start it, and leave for the night. He keeps production time and costs down by skipping the finishing stage and not being too stringent on quality control (hopefully he cleans off the cutting oil). Even if he spends $5 on the Ti for each nail, he still makes a decent profit by selling at $20+
One way to produce cheap nails is through existing machine shops. They already have the equipment, so those costs aren't reflected in the nail price. I'm guessing most nails are made with CNC machines, which aren't very labor intensive. Even designing a basic nail doesn't take very long with a CAD program. If the shop owner did everything himself he wouldn't have labor costs; just pop titanium in the CNC machine, start it, and leave for the night. He keeps production time and costs down by skipping the finishing stage and not being too stringent on quality control (hopefully he cleans off the cutting oil). Even if he spends $5 on the Ti for each nail, he still makes a decent profit by selling at $20+
First, just want to say I don't mean to imply there aren't quality, safe, cheap Ti nails out there, just that it's less likely you find one. When there's no way to trace it back to the person who made it, there's less accountability, and less incentive to provide you with a quality product.
That said, I did just think of a possible way to see what your nail is made out of. There's a hand held alloy tester. They're really expensive, but one of the common places to find one being used is in a recycling center or scrapyard. If you can find one that uses one, you can probably get them to test your nail if you can work up the nerve to ask.
That said, I did just think of a possible way to see what your nail is made out of. There's a hand held alloy tester. They're really expensive, but one of the common places to find one being used is in a recycling center or scrapyard. If you can find one that uses one, you can probably get them to test your nail if you can work up the nerve to ask.
It's not about the cost of the material. It's about the cost of machining that material. Titanium is an element. Grade 2 titanium is the purest titanium. Titanium is harder and more brittle than most metals that are commonly worked in a shop(think steel or alluminum). The harder/more brittle a metal, the slower you have to work. The other grades of titanium are alloys that change the properties of the metal for different applications. Just like steel...depending on what they add, it becomes softer, more flexible, easier to work with. I'm no expert on this stuff...just what I remember from metal shop, but it makes sense to me.
So, the reason they would use a different grade of Ti or even a different metal, isn't to cut down on material costs. It's to cut down on all the other costs. If they use a metal they can cut faster, with less wear and tear on their equipment, it cuts their costs tremendously. I mean, you're talking CnC machines...you still have to set how quickly they cut the material. If you use something easier to cut, and it takes 15% less time to cut a nail, you make 15% more money, right?
In general an item's retail price usually has very little to do with the actual manufacturing costs. This can be especially true with products that fill a specific niche market without much competition.
The reason you find so many grade 5 nails on the market is because that's what's commonly used for small screws and other industrial applications. They are mass produced by a healthy amount of manufacturers, and are available at a price point like boldorado illustrated.
That being said, these grade 2 ti products are VASTLY OVERPRICED, just like everything else surrounding our beloved miss Mary.
Whattaya gonna do?
The reason you find so many grade 5 nails on the market is because that's what's commonly used for small screws and other industrial applications. They are mass produced by a healthy amount of manufacturers, and are available at a price point like boldorado illustrated.
That being said, these grade 2 ti products are VASTLY OVERPRICED, just like everything else surrounding our beloved miss Mary.
Whattaya gonna do?
Armerad
Dabbin'
First of my three shipments got here today, the torch itself. Holding it, it has a definite heft to it and feels like a pretty damn solid torch for 30$. What purpose does an "Air Control Lever" do? It's labeled in the instruction manual/included cookbook, but doesn't mention it's use. More importantly, any use in regards to dabbing?
My nail will be getting her monday, and due to slow shipping on their end, my Vector fuel will be here Tuesday.
P.S The food in this book looks delicious
My nail will be getting her monday, and due to slow shipping on their end, my Vector fuel will be here Tuesday.
P.S The food in this book looks delicious
fake name
Well-Known Member
It adds air to the fuel being burnt to weaken the flame. You can get it to be more akin to the flame of a bic if you use the air control with the flame turned down as low, on some torches.
Bon Dog
Well-Known Member
the machining time and cost is minuscule. back when i worked in the oil industry, our guys would mill a plug for a frack in ~20m and that was big lump of metal. i have a hard time imagining that it cost even remotely close to even $30 to produce (that includes all the factors of supply).
at the end of they day it is based on demand (you would be surprised how similar the mj paraphernalia market is to the oil service market) the sales people get to decide how much to charge and everyone just digs a little deeper b/c u just gotta have it
matt_the_knife
New Member
First time poster here, getting bigger into dabbing and looking for some advice. Obviously ive heard mixed things about cheap nails off ebay/ioffer/amazon but this guy seems to be interesting as hes cutting out the middle man for what seems to be quality product, his nails look to be a cool design that would limit that stick you can get from the dome if you dont take it off quick enough. Any one have any experience? i really cant seem to find much about him. I'm specifically looking at his 14mm male domeless that could fit a couple pieces ive got.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/shelloe/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=25&_trksid=p3686
http://www.ebay.com/sch/shelloe/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=25&_trksid=p3686
Armerad
Dabbin'
My 14mm HE T-Top Nail gets here today. Somehow, the Vector fuel got delivered on Friday instead of Tuesday so I'll be all set to dab!
Hopefully UPS delivers earlier in the day today, my only free time at home today is 3-4pm until I get home from work at 8pm. There will be other people home to sign for the package/etc, but everyone loves handling things themself.
Hopefully UPS delivers earlier in the day today, my only free time at home today is 3-4pm until I get home from work at 8pm. There will be other people home to sign for the package/etc, but everyone loves handling things themself.
Squeeky
Well-Known Member
I've also been curious about this seller. However joining FC and your first post is to promote an online seller is a little fishy. Not trying to be a mod, or an ass just pointed it out.
matt_the_knife
New Member
ya i guess that could be a little weird, im pretty sure im just going to my local headshop and grabbing a dome/Ti nail set up for $45 or so, i trust the guy and have been going there for a while. this deal seemed almost too good to be true and i really dont want to be the Guinea pig.
Armerad
Dabbin'
Just wanted to report in after thoroughly "testing" the Turbine Top, I can declare:
Fuck I'm stoned. First dabs, cheers!
Without being able to compare to any other nails, I'm not sure how this compares to others. I can say that the heat retention is great, I can get 2 dabs in without any rush. The "turbine" spike in the middle is useful because it makes it much easier to get your dab in contact with something, even if you put the dab on awkwardly.
Fuck I'm stoned. First dabs, cheers!
Without being able to compare to any other nails, I'm not sure how this compares to others. I can say that the heat retention is great, I can get 2 dabs in without any rush. The "turbine" spike in the middle is useful because it makes it much easier to get your dab in contact with something, even if you put the dab on awkwardly.
I'd be wary of a nail that fits snugly inside the f joint, if it expands the glass can crack. Gravity + the angled shape of the joint make that pretty likely (snug fit that is). Check out this guys recent post. I did grab his cute little 3 pc dabber set for 19 bux shipped.
If you're using any domeless nail...or even a normal domed nail...think about getting an adapter. Just think about it....no matter what you use, things are going to get stuck. Domes get stuck when they're dirty...domeless nails get stuck when they're dirty. Do you want them getting stuck to a 20 dollar adapter...or a 400 dollar oil rig? Do you need one? Probably not, if you've got a quality piece with a nice joint...but should you use one? Definitely. Why not?
Bob Loblaw
Astralnaut
agreed, although, if you don't care about your piece, like my buddy, you can just let it get dirty and sticky as fuck and just torch the whole dome/joint till the oil melts and it releases 
SD_haze
Well-Known Member
Interesting concentrate accessory popped up on ApixDesign's website today.
(Though it's not listed separately from the 12inch $185 tube)
Domeless Quartz Nail with a design i haven't seen before
It apaprently fits 14mm AND 18mm joints.
Not sure if you're supposed to dab the middle thing or the outer cup area.
(Though it's not listed separately from the 12inch $185 tube)
Domeless Quartz Nail with a design i haven't seen before
It apaprently fits 14mm AND 18mm joints.
Not sure if you're supposed to dab the middle thing or the outer cup area.
Puffers
Micro-Climate Mastermind
Hmm looks like you dab on the outer part of the cup and the middle is the air tube, I would think it would be hard to properly heat a cup that deep
though
Abysmal Vapor
Supersniffer 2000 - robot fart detection device
Bob Loblaw
Astralnaut
i have the m420 and sherlock. i love the tray and dome set. it's been on the backburner of the i want list for a while (the dome set that is.)
z9
Well-Known Member
I'm not ready to pull the trigger on a nice domeless ti nail because I'm on the fence about the design. And I didn't think there was anything great about my last normal titanium nail. I've been pretty happy with the cheap quartz nails (picture on page 12 of this thread) that I bought off ebay a few weeks ago so I decided to try a domeless quartz nail from the same ebay seller, especially since its only $9 shipped. It appears to fit 14mm and 18mm joints. Can't wait to check it out, not that I'm expecting anything great. If I do like it, I'll eventually get a domeless ti nail, since my new direct inject piece can fit one without the nail being dangerously close to the tube.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-DOMELESS-...213?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac2dbbb95
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-DOMELESS-...213?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac2dbbb95
SD_haze
Well-Known Member
Wow, looks just like this domeless quartz nail that is retailing $60 on TheDabLab.comI'm not ready to pull the trigger on a nice domeless ti nail because I'm on the fence about the design. And I didn't think there was anything great about my last normal titanium nail. I've been pretty happy with the cheap quartz nails (picture on page 12 of this thread) that I bought off ebay a few weeks ago so I decided to try a domeless quartz nail from the same ebay seller, especially since its only $9 shipped. It appears to fit 14mm and 18mm joints. Can't wait to check it out, not that I'm expecting anything great. If I do like it, I'll eventually get a domeless ti nail, since my new direct inject piece can fit one without the nail being dangerously close to the tube.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-DOMELESS-...213?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac2dbbb95
VIGIL - DI Domeless Quartz Nail
