Christian Tokers

[overdriveak]

And course, all that pertains to weed?

I just find it amazing how one can take ANY verse or verses in the Bible and twist them to accamodate and support just about any preconceived idea that one has. People do that a LOT and not just about weed.

I think that's kind of the point. The bible is full of vagueness that is open to interpretation in many possible ways. The goal of a good priest/pastor/etc is to guide you through 'understanding' what it may mean. People have been trying to understand the "truth" for hundreds of years and we will not settle it here.

I don't think these specific verses are too far removed to draw a valid connection to our topic. If you don't agree then you must have some other idea of what the verses are referring to.

 

[Vicki]

I think that's kind of the point. The bible is full of vagueness that is open to interpretation in many possible ways. The goal of a good priest/pastor/etc is to guide you through 'understanding' what it may mean. People have been trying to understand the "truth" for hundreds of years and we will not settle it here.

I don't think these specific verses are too far removed to draw a valid connection to our topic. If you don't agree then you must have some other idea of what the verses are referring to.

I believe the scripture in my signature is plain, and means what it says. And I can back it up with more scripture, not limited to, but including 2 Timothy 3:16. If a politician says cannabis is bad I know they are lying jackasses, but I know God can't tell a lie, but rather Satan is the father of the lie. If the Bible says what God creates is good, I know it is! Of course, there are people that will twist some scripture to accommodate their agendas, that is why I always seek God's wisdom in prayer!

 

[hazy]

Vicki, I think that lwien was implying that Christians would consider the Ten Commandments universal, that they apply to all people, and it is a sin for anyone to disobey them. Furthermore, all serious Christians I have met consider that not being Christian is a sin also.

 

[Vicki]

Vicki, I think that lwien was implying that Christians would consider the Ten Commandments universal, that they apply to all people, and it is a sin for anyone to disobey them. Furthermore, all serious Christians I have met consider that not being Christian is a sin also.

If so, that is not right. That would be an assumption that all Christians are like that, we are not, I am not. No one should assume something like that.

In my humble opinion, that is being judgemental and that is wrong in God's eyes. That's like saying something like (as a Christian, of course), "Oh, you don't believe as I do, guess you get to die before my God, or burn in hell, etc. etc.." Not only wrong, but damned haughty, IMHO.

 

[snew]

Iwien can I answer your question with a more conventional Christian answer.
The Apostle Paul was preaching to the Athenians on Mars Hill. Surrounded my status of various gods that where being worship. He said this in Acts 17:29-30
29 “...we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. ”

Now that is pretty clear. Paul told people who embraced other religions, other faith, to repent. He did not address their failure to do what their own gods has order, but there failure to repent, to his God, Jesus." If Christianity is anything it is an exclusive club. Anybody can get on board, but you got to get on board. It is Jesus, the only path to salvation. Now this is the traditional orthodox view of Christianity. And that is why Christians are hated the world over. Now this is very contrary to the modern mind, no absolutes, if you say your OK then your OK. Christianity is not accepting of other faiths.
I sorry this will offend some of you but hopefully it will help someone on their journey.

 

[lwien]

Vicki, I think that lwien was implying that Christians would consider the Ten Commandments universal, that they apply to all people, and it is a sin for anyone to disobey them. Furthermore, all serious Christians I have met consider that not being Christian is a sin also.

Correct.

Now that is pretty clear. Paul told people who embraced other religions, other faith, to repent. He did not address their failure to do what their own gods has order, but there failure to repent, to his God, Jesus." If Christianity is anything it is an exclusive club. Anybody can get on board, but you got to get on board. It is Jesus, the only path to salvation. Now this is the traditional orthodox view of Christianity. And that is why Christians are hated the world over. Now this is very contrary to the modern mind, no absolutes, if you say your OK then your OK. Christianity is not accepting of other faiths.
I sorry this will offend some of you but hopefully it will help someone on their journey.

That has always been what I have thought also, that is that Christians believe that the ONLY way to heaven is through Jesus, and therefore, everyone else is going................where? To hell? And if that's the case, it sure sounds like if one does not believe in Jesus along with following Christian beliefs in the Ten Commandments, than you are a MAJOR sinner, and therefore, will not gain Gods favor after death. Vicki, however, states that one should not assume that all Christians believe that, but isn't that one of the basic tenants of Christianity, that is, the only path to God is through Jesus?

For me, I was brought up as a Jew. I was taught that there is but only one God, but I was never taught that any one relgion had the excusive rights to God. I was taught that there there are multiple paths and that as long as one led a righteous life that respected his fellow man and followed Gods law as set out by the Ten Commandments, that they would walk hand in hand with God, regardless of which religion they were aligned with or if they were, in fact, aligned with any organized religion at all.

Personally, I reject dogma of any kind, be it religious dogma or political dogma. For me, there are just way too many shades of gray to get bogged down into a life of black and white.

 

[Vicki]

Correct.



That has always been what I have thought also, that is that Christians believe that the ONLY way to heaven is through Jesus, and therefore, everyone else is going................where? To hell? And if that's the case, it sure sounds like if one does not believe in Jesus along with following Christian beliefs in the Ten Commandments, than you are a MAJOR sinner, and therefore, will not gain Gods favor after death. Vicki, however, states that one should not assume that all Christians believe that, but isn't that one of the basic tenants of Christianity, that is, the only path to God is through Jesus?

Um, excuse you. I never said that, nor did I imply it. What I exactly said was that a Christian should judge no one because the Bible says not to do that or you will be judged. I do not judge other people on their religious beliefs or their gender preference or ANYTHING because it is wrong.

As I stated in a previous post, not only do I think it's wrong, but it's also damned haughty, IMHO. It is not my place to shove my beliefs down anyone's throat. If, however, that person wishes to become Christian, great!

 

[snew]

I understand that Iwien and it certainly was not my intent to offend. Your view is a much more common world view and Vicki's view of Christianity is becoming more and more common. Now I pose to you this. What you think and what I think is irrelevant. If God exists then what he things would be what matters. What I was taught what you where taught may all be wrong. I suggest you read an may want to read an old book "Evidence that Demands A Verdict" by Josh McDowell. It old but then I'm old so that's what I know best.

 

[lwien]

No offense taken, snew. None at all. And thanks for the read suggestion. I will check it out.

But I do gotta say that I've strayed a bit on what I've been taught. You said, "If God exists then what he thinks would be what matters.", but those two concepts may not be tied to one another. That is, if God exists........he thinks......and that what he thinks matters. It very could be that God does not "think" at all when it comes to human matters and that his/her/it's ONLY concern is that of creation and the maintenance of what was created within the order if chaos.............if that makes any sense.


I really don't know. I don't think any of us really do know although many of us "believe" that we know.

But what flies in the face of all this is that for some odd reason, I have this feeling that a guardian angel is watching out for me. There is just too many things that have happened in my life for me to think otherwise............along with just a sense that something has my back.

 

[WatTyler]

As I stated in a previous post, not only do I think it's wrong, but it's also damned haughty, IMHO. It is not my place to shove my beliefs down anyone's throat. If, however, that person wishes to become Christian, great!

I think the concept of the "Great Commission" and evangelism does incite many Christians to shove their beliefs down other peoples throats. It's perhaps unfair and unfortunate that all Christians get tarred with this brush. (although it is maybe the most evangelistic of all the main religions).

 

[OhTheAgony]

I never really understood why people needed books or priests to tell them what's wrong or right in the first place.

I mean, when I do something bad I know it's bad. Even as a child when I had no precedent to a situation I knew it in my heart when I was doing something that was wrong and/or hurting others in some way. I assume everyone has this 'knowledge' somewhere inside of them, I mean I can't be that special, right?

So why don't you folks learn to trust your own judgment and listen to your inner voice instead of depending on a book that was written thousands of years ago and can be interpreted in a thousand different ways, or some priest telling you what and what not to do? Do you at least verify his capabilities before you blindly trust this man?

I really don't get the need for religion, any kind of religion. I feel it's completely outdated and that it has caused more harm then it did good throughout history.

Right now I have a good friend I feel I'm loosing to religion. He always was a little lost in life and looking for something to hold on to, and I guess he found it now. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he's happy and feels more balanced now, and I'd never want to tell him how to live his life, but I don't know how much longer I can stand him trying to convert me to christianity too. I think his motivations are really sweet, he just wants to meet me again in heaven when we die. But he needs to understand this is something he believes in, I simply don't care what happens to me when I die and that should be respected as well. I don't think I'm going to get that though, and it will probably only be a matter of time before our ways will part because of this. Such a shame, and yet so common. I know I'm one of them, but still, people are really dumb most of the time

 

[snew]

This as been great discussion thanks everyone. Agony i wish everyone had the honest judgement. Some people listen to their own judgement and cut their neighbors head off.
Me I'm just a seeker of truth. I am fairly dumb sometimes. I find wisdom in the Bible. Why would I not turn to a several thousand year old book for wisdom? Something that has proven its self true over and over. I just a simple man, I hear birds outside this morning, light starting to break through the trees and I see Gods handy work.
For various reasons, one to avoid death, Christians started worshiping after the traditional Sabbath of Judaism, or Saturday. Today thousands of people, on Sunday, will come to gather in many different ways, languages, cultures, and race to do one thing. To worship this guy born to poor parents, who live on this earth for 33 years. That is amazing, simply amazing.
I really appreciate the kindness of the discussion here. Respectful.

 

[OhTheAgony]

I to like to think I am a seeker of truth, I to am fairly dumb at times, plain stupid even if you will. We are not that different you and I. Hearing the birds outside, seeing the earth wake up, basking in sunlight puts a smile on my face and in my heart as well. I don't need to believe something or someone was responsible for creating it. It's 'just' nature, it is.

Just to respond to your example, I don't believe that someone who decides to cut their neighbors head off listens to their own judgment but rather his or hers desperation, anger, frustration, fear or some sort of combination of the before mentioned. I get people can get confused and mistake signals from within, but we have therapists and psychiatrist to help them with that. I don't think religion should be the answer to those problems. Christians commit murder to unfortunately, some of them even do it just in the name of christianity itself.

The word 'worshipping' just makes me cringe to be honest. I think it's unhealthy to put someone, anyone on a pedestal like that. We are all just humans, nothing more and nothing less. It's still debatable if Jesus even existed as far as I know. Some scientist are sure he didn't, others are still open to the idea he might have, but no prove whatsoever has been found. How can you believe everything is true in your thousands year old book, do you have any way of verifying what you are reading is true, or even appropriate in this day and age? Do you realize how much harm that same book has caused to millions of people as well? I think it's just a matter of interpretation, nothing else. And the danger with that is that everyone does so in their own way, which unfortunately means to their own gain for many as well.

Religion and/or the people who practice it scare me, they really do. I believe it holds back the evolution of mankind as well as the evolution of the individual. And again, I just don't see the need for it.

But I know we will never agree about this. I've had this discussion so many times before, in one form or another, and it never lead to anything constructive. I'm not even sure why I posted in this thread to be honest. Thinking about my friend probably triggered it. I'm not arrogant enough to think I could have done anything that would have kept him from turning to religion, but I still feel I failed him in some way when he did.

 

[djonkoman]

I don't know the bible tht wedll, but I went to a christian elementary. there I learned to hate everything related to christianity, but luckily I have one side of my family(my father's) that is christian, and the kind of christian I respect. never a problem that I don't believe, and they are the tolerant kind of christians. my dad doesn't even believe in hell, only in heaven. (from what I remember, he believews that everyone has a good side, and since god is very forgiving eventualy everyone will end up in heaven)

but if I have to coose a favorite party of the bible, it would probably be that story of jesus on the sabbath and grinds some grains, when orthodox jewish scholars tell him that's prohibited sice it's the sabbath, and he tels you have to be a bit looser abut rules like that, not strictly adhere to rules but use your own judgement

 

[snew]

I would think you here because your a seeker like you said.
I used the word worship knowing that its provoking to people. But it is the truth this is the basis of the Christian faith. As for the historical figure of Jesus I don't know any historians who don't have an agenda that deny the existence of Jesus. You may want to consider reading a book I suggested earlier, Evidence that Demands a Verdict, by Josh McDowell.
Religion scares me to. Jesus really was not a fan of religion in His day and I think he show the same anger to some today that he did in the Temple. However, in spite of the fact that people screw it up, and use it for their own gain, the Bible is a book of truth.

 

[Vicki]

Since leaving my old religion, this has always been my theme song. The lyrics fit me perfectly too! Now, I rely on my personal relationship with God, and I read the Bible daily.

BTW, just because I lost my religion, I still know God exists, and I love him. I believe God is very displeased with ALL organized religion.

 

[lwien]

Agony i wish everyone had the honest judgement. Some people listen to their own judgement and cut their neighbors head off.

And some people who believe themselves righteously religious cut their neighbors head off. There have been sooooo many killed in the name of God that I don't believe that a belief in a God is necessary to keep us all in line. It may have been at one time, but it's kind of in our DNA now, kind of like what happens with domesticated animals, eh?

But I know we will never agree about this. I've had this discussion so many times before, in one form or another, and it never lead to anything constructive.

Ohhh, I disagree. Discussions such as these can have a major impact, not only to those that are involved in the discussion, but also to those who are just lurking and following the discussion. If one very small detail of a discussion like this lights a small spark that causes someone to question their previous beliefs, be they an Atheist or someone who devoutly believes in God, than in my opinion, it is a discussion worth having.

 

[bazzles]

What about the original meaning of 'sin' in Greek? Sin means literally to "miss the mark". And also the fact that there were multiple words used for 'sin' makes it even more up to interpretation by the reader. The translations are just one man's determination of what the original texts said so it also has some variance by translation. The currently taught interpretation of 'sin' (from what I remember from church) is any act that violates a known moral rule wish is a very strict interpretation of the original word.

Although this is the interpretation of a guy who grew up going to church and has since accepted an Unknown label for my religion since it gathers from so many different religions, its sort of an acceptance that all religions are important but I feel most have been miss interpreted for the most part. So take my comments as you wish.